PVA Status Updates: Hancock Rifle & NUCLEUS Barreled Action

Oct 4, 2012
76
3
8
33
Fresno, CA
I didn't get an email in my spam Folder but I have a receipt so I know they've got my email correct. I'll follow up with that.

Thanks again for posting that email.

I think the Nucleus BA orders are being treated with the same priority as the JHR. It makes sense that PVA made an initial purchase of actions for only JHRs and then each BA purchase was behind that initial action order for the JHR. The JHR is a unique product being brought to market separate from a Nucleus BA. What I understand from that email is that once ARC meets that initial action order to cover a set number of JHRs then all orders beyond that (JHR or BA) are solely based on when they were ordered and no longer separated. But, maybe I'm wrong.

The other way to do things would have been to not make an initial order of actions and as each JHR or BA was preordered then PVA would place an order for that action with ARC. I think that would have slowed things down considerably for those purchasing a JHR though it would have a negligible impact on those purchasing a BA.

or

PVA could have made a much larger order of actions to accommodate the both the JHR and BA up front. That however would take a lot more cash on their part and it would have been a risky venture.
 
Likes: character0
Feb 16, 2017
20
5
3
The BA buyers are not being treated in the same manner as the JHR buyers. Per the update PVA has 80 actions sitting ready and waiting for engraving at ARC, for JHR buyers. The BA buyers have to wait until their action comes up in production sequence with ARC based on the order date. My order date for my BA I know would fall in with the 1st batch of JHR production, and there are actions sitting and waiting, but I will not be allocated one of these already produced actions. I'll live, but I think my deposit is just as legit as a JHR buyer. One of the reasons for going with PVA was that I knew they had an initial order in and would get the first batch of actions. It's really annoying when they could be completing orders for people they have the parts on hand to finish.
 

j741

Hide Member
Sep 10, 2017
520
84
28
Greater Seattle Area
One of the reasons for going with PVA was that I knew they had an initial order in and would get the first batch of actions.
That was my apparent misunderstanding as well. I thought buying a barreled action through PVA would put me in a spot in terms of the waiting list. I'm now understanding that my impression was wrong. That's on me and I'm not blaming anyone for for it. Who knows, maybe this will save me money :)

My 6.5CM TAC A1, which I bought only when I realized the Nucleus wait time would be 1/2 year+ from my Feb order date, is a tack driver and my 300NM MPR has already arrived as well. I'm not sure if I need to keep my 6CM Nucleus w/Barloc order or sell my place to someone else. As much as I like what I'm hearing/reading about the action w/barloc and PVA barrels, its getting harder to justify keeping, and I'm usually very good at justifying even totally unnecessary items.
 
Aug 3, 2017
27
25
13
The BA buyers are not being treated in the same manner as the JHR buyers. Per the update PVA has 80 actions sitting ready and waiting for engraving at ARC, for JHR buyers. The BA buyers have to wait until their action comes up in production sequence with ARC based on the order date. My order date for my BA I know would fall in with the 1st batch of JHR production, and there are actions sitting and waiting, but I will not be allocated one of these already produced actions. I'll live, but I think my deposit is just as legit as a JHR buyer. One of the reasons for going with PVA was that I knew they had an initial order in and would get the first batch of actions. It's really annoying when they could be completing orders for people they have the parts on hand to finish.
I don't think that's quite what happened. The JHR's required a minimum commitment from Josh in order to get the ball rolling to even create the Nucleus. Sounds like Josh committed to 80 actions in that JHR batch, which ARC built and is now holding, waiting for the ATF marking variance (government paperwork is a pain in the ass). The JHRs were committed months before the announcement of the Nucleus from either outfit.

ARC opened up pre-orders for the Nucleus action on Jan 16. I'm pretty certain that PVA announced Nucleus barreled actions two days later? Jeremy at PVA indicated they forwarded the PVA BA buyers list with accuracy down to the second for orders and that ARC is going to fit that list into their process. My assumption is ARC will combine those lists and move forward using a consolidated list. Again, this is an assumption based on what Jeremy's email contained.

Essentially the current outbound Nucleii from ARC are all pre-orders directly through the ARC website which were all ordered before the PVA BA opened up. The JHR's shouldn't even be considered here, those actions are built and were coordinated/purchased before the pre-orders even opened up from either ARC or PVA.

Full disclosure, I already have a nucleus in hand. I ordered directly through ARC because on day one PVA's website didn't have any indication they were involved with the Nuclues. I would have preferred to go the PVA BA route, but already had the non-refundable deposit down with ARC. Either way, I think Ted and Josh are both stand up guys and I'm happy with their collaboration. I think the roll-out/announcement could have been coordinated better to benefit both outfits, but at the same time I'm not terribly excited about huge marketing budgets and hype around products, which inevitably happens when focusing more on the optics of a product than the actual product.

I'm quite certain PVA understands your sentiment "It's really annoying when they could be completing orders for people they have the parts on hand to finish." more than you do yourself.
 

bohem

PVA's HMFIC
Jan 6, 2009
7,198
544
113
Southeast, PA
www.patriotvalleyarms.com
The BA buyers are not being treated in the same manner as the JHR buyers. Per the update PVA has 80 actions sitting ready and waiting for engraving at ARC, for JHR buyers. The BA buyers have to wait until their action comes up in production sequence with ARC based on the order date.
My order date for my BA I know would fall in with the 1st batch of JHR production, and there are actions sitting and waiting, but I will not be allocated one of these already produced actions. I'll live, but I think my deposit is just as legit as a JHR buyer.
You are wrong here.

The JHR is a private labeled action, it cannot be used for a Nucleus barreled action per ATF requirement and per my agreement with Ted.
Your deposit for a BA doesn't get you in line for a JHR receiver, they're different products and not interchangeable.

One of the reasons for going with PVA was that I knew they had an initial order in and would get the first batch of actions. It's really annoying when they could be completing orders for people they have the parts on hand to finish.
You have no idea... the amount of time spent on paperwork and chasing down answers on said paperwork is worth close to 40 barreled actions worth of time that could have been spent on other things. You know, like completing barreled actions. Factor in that the $250 deposit covers about 1/6th of the currently outlayed costs for parts like triggers, stocks, barrel blanks, our machine and man hours for muzzle brakes and thread protectors... patience with "paperwork delays" is wearing thin in a lot of places.


I don't think that's quite what happened. The JHR's required a minimum commitment from Josh in order to get the ball rolling to even create the Nucleus. Sounds like Josh committed to 80 100 actions in that JHR batch, which ARC built and is now holding, waiting for the ATF marking variance (government paperwork is a pain in the ass). The JHRs were committed months before the announcement of the Nucleus from either outfit.

ARC opened up pre-orders for the Nucleus action on Jan 16. I'm pretty certain that PVA announced Nucleus barreled actions two days later? Jeremy at PVA indicated they forwarded the PVA BA buyers list with accuracy down to the second for orders and that ARC is going to fit that list into their process. My assumption is ARC will combine those lists and move forward using a consolidated list. Again, this is an assumption based on what Jeremy's email contained.

Essentially the current outbound Nucleii from ARC are all pre-orders directly through the ARC website which were all ordered before the PVA BA opened up. The JHR's shouldn't even be considered here, those actions are built and were coordinated/purchased before the pre-orders even opened up from either ARC or PVA.

Full disclosure, I already have a nucleus in hand. I ordered directly through ARC because on day one PVA's website didn't have any indication they were involved with the Nuclues. I would have preferred to go the PVA BA route, but already had the non-refundable deposit down with ARC. Either way, I think Ted and Josh are both stand up guys and I'm happy with their collaboration. I think the roll-out/announcement could have been coordinated better to benefit both outfits, but at the same time I'm not terribly excited about huge marketing budgets and hype around products, which inevitably happens when focusing more on the optics of a product than the actual product.

I'm quite certain PVA understands your sentiment "It's really annoying when they could be completing orders for people they have the parts on hand to finish." more than you do yourself.

Nailed it.
THe reason ARC stopped at 80 receivers is because we were getting the runaround on papework; Ted and I talked and I told him to just get other folks' stuff running, 80 receivers will keep us busy while you can make the next 20.


And whomever said something about coordinating Nucleii deliveries to PVA against the time stamp of the order also nailed it. We've said that a bunch of times in places like this thread, other threads on this forum, facebook, instagram, videos, interviews... that approach is far from a secret. ARC and PVA made a committment to the extra hassle of doing it that way to be more fair to the end customers. We were also very open and transparent about it.
 
Last edited:
Folks
We're getting a number of requests for the Hancock to offer 6.5 PRC
Right now we have it available in 6.5 SAUM but have sold exactly 2 of them, one guy ordered a barrel and another guy ordered a rifle.


With the number of requests for a 6.5 short action magnum sized case counted up it's pretty much ALL 6.5 PRC's. We are considering changing the caliber offerings over to include the PRC.

Any thoughts on it?
 
Aug 3, 2017
27
25
13
Folks
We're getting a number of requests for the Hancock to offer 6.5 PRC
Right now we have it available in 6.5 SAUM but have sold exactly 2 of them, one guy ordered a barrel and another guy ordered a rifle.


With the number of requests for a 6.5 short action magnum sized case counted up it's pretty much ALL 6.5 PRC's. We are considering changing the caliber offerings over to include the PRC.

Any thoughts on it?
I think the 6.5 PRC is more appealing than the 6.5 SAUM due to factory ammo/brass. I didn't do the JHR so take my comments with that in mind, but I have a magnum bolt face on order for my nucleus specifically so you can put a 6.5 PRC in front of it at some point.
 
Feb 27, 2017
57
14
8
On one hand, Prime did just launch 6.5 SAUM ammo and I'd assume that means someone is going to be announcing brass soon. On the other hand I think the PRC is going to have a greater chance of mainstream acceptance. Hornady backing, nonrebated rim for feeding from box mags, factory ammo available at local stores, cheaper dies (I picked up a Hornady match busing die on Amazon for $21, standard set is $45) and the performance was close enough for me to lean that way.

Looking forward to hunting the #2 barrel in 6.5 PRC I ordered from you after chatting yesterday morning. For my purposes it was the right pick.
 
On one hand, Prime did just launch 6.5 SAUM ammo and I'd assume that means someone is going to be announcing brass soon. On the other hand I think the PRC is going to have a greater chance of mainstream acceptance. Hornady backing, nonrebated rim for feeding from box mags, factory ammo available at local stores, cheaper dies (I picked up a Hornady match busing die on Amazon for $21, standard set is $45) and the performance was close enough for me to lean that way.

Looking forward to hunting the #2 barrel in 6.5 PRC I ordered from you after chatting yesterday morning. For my purposes it was the right pick.
That is why I struggle with the change. It's an easy change for us to accommodate on face value because we have the reamers for production barrels already; we just need to use them.

On the other hand it alienates the guys (2 of them) who have 6.5 SAUM JHR's coming, we wouldn't support both of them at this time in the Hancock.

And on top of it PRIME is doing 6.5 SAUM ammo now and we have a collaboration with them on the reamers for 6 Creed and will for the 6.5 SAUM. Plus an ammo discount for Hancock owners on PRIME when they buy a rifle. So I don't want to alienate that aspect either, just sort of thinking out loud and seeing what folks think on it.
 
Jul 29, 2014
454
144
43
After reading this article I don’t see a huge advantage to the 6.5 PRC over the 6.5 Creedmoor. I get the same velocity with 140 and 143’s out of my Creedmoor running RL26. I guess if the extra weight on the bullet is what you’re looking for then go for it. I need to read more about the SAUM.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2017/10/new-hornady-6-5-prc-precision-rifle-cartridge/
So take the extra ~200 fps you get reloading and add that to the PRC by reloading

We know hornady factory is slow so if you wanna compare the two with factory velocities at least be fair about it
 
Feb 27, 2017
57
14
8
Hornady reloading data shows 3150 with 140/143 as the max for RL26 in the PRC. As said above, factory loads are slower. SAUM is definitely faster,but most stuff I've read says it only gets you 50-75fps. Add a little barrel length to the PRC and you're back in the right neighborhood.
 
Dec 17, 2017
139
60
28
Why does it have to be an either-or situation?
I agree with this. If it's just a matter of using a different reamer it seems like a no-brainer to offer both since a lot of people want PRC now and there were certainly be some who want to shoot 6.5 SAUM when Prime starts offering the ammo for it. There isn't a limit to the number of calibers a rifle is offered in for Production division, is there?
 
Jan 23, 2014
96
30
18
Southern AZ
So take the extra ~200 fps you get reloading and add that to the PRC by reloading

We know hornady factory is slow so if you wanna compare the two with factory velocities at least be fair about it
Fair enough. I guess I would need to shoot one and see what other factors come into play. Recoil, cost of brass, powder charge cost variance, etc, to see if it’s really better and worth it.
 
Likes: b6graham

j741

Hide Member
Sep 10, 2017
520
84
28
Greater Seattle Area
I agree with this. If it's just a matter of using a different reamer it seems like a no-brainer to offer both since a lot of people want PRC now and there were certainly be some who want to shoot 6.5 SAUM when Prime starts offering the ammo for it. There isn't a limit to the number of calibers a rifle is offered in for Production division, is there?
Every varying config has a cost to support it though. We don't know the exact cost for PVA, but I'm sure there is some. And if the JHR is on razor thin margins, even the smaller cost could affect long term profitability or accommodating possible price fluctuations.
 
Likes: wbbh
Dec 17, 2017
139
60
28
Every varying config has a cost to support it though. We don't know the exact cost for PVA, but I'm sure there is some. And if the JHR is on razor thin margins, even the smaller cost could affect long term profitability or accommodating possible price fluctuations.
I fail to see any cost other than swapping out the reamers and lathe profiles (about a 2-5 minute job) and creating a new laser engraver profile to mark the caliber on the barrel. They already have the ability to ream 6.5 PRC barrels. I could be wrong, but that seems to me like a pretty minimal cost if it sells you additional rifles.
 
Jul 29, 2014
454
144
43
I’d guess this is what is driving the either/or question.
I’m sure PVA will clarify today, but I'm almost certain it's the PRS rules causing their dilemma.
Otherwise i think we'd have seen them offer a JHR in every reamer they have which is quite a substantial list

I think the short list for the JHR, being common calibers, means they can go through each quicker without having to spend the time to switch reamers and programs, time that could be spent turning barrels. There's a reason they have calibers that cost a little more; they're not common enough and you're essentially paying for the time it takes to switch programs and tooling.

Website updated to 6.5 PRC, saum removed
 
Likes: wbbh
Why does it have to be an either-or situation?
For a place our size, doing production, yeah it kinda does. The Hancock has a somewhat short list of calibers to keep on the shelf. Right now we are making them to order but the goal is to have parts on the shelf, barrels ready to screw on and assemble. Having 2 calibers that are very near the same performance makes for a bunch of cost that sits on the shelf. Especially considering we sold less than 2% of the currently pre-ordered hancocks on 1 of those calibers.

If the 2 Dashers are any clue I am hesitant to say we're going to see a big jump in rifles sold from adding the PRC alone. The Dashers combined sold fewer than the 6mm BR did and all 3 of those sold less than the 6 Creed; everything combined was less than what the 6.5 Creed did alone. So there's a clear winner there.

I was really hoping to see that someone would bring factory Dasher to the party, which is why we were doing both flavors of Dasher brass. I'd had some conversations with an ammo company that was looking to use the Norma brass to make factory Dasher for about $28/box retail but when the brass supplied dried up with Bullets.com closing that was the end of that idea.


I fail to see any cost other than swapping out the reamers and lathe profiles (about a 2-5 minute job) and creating a new laser engraver profile to mark the caliber on the barrel. They already have the ability to ream 6.5 PRC barrels. I could be wrong, but that seems to me like a pretty minimal cost if it sells you additional rifles.
I'd love to have someone come over and swap reamers on a turning center in 2-3 minutes without having a major risk of at least 2 problems

First time the reamer enters the bore it misses and explodes ($350 reamer toast, barrel rework needed, plus down time on the caliber to get another)
Second the headspace is way off and blows the hole too deep... more barrel rework needed.

Switching a reamer, dialing it in on the holder to get a true chamber, and making sure the headspace isn't blown on teh first cycle is about a 30 minute job.

We do offer the 6.5 PRC already, it goes in the Nucleus barreled action or anything else that's not the Hancock. But to make the Hancock profitable in any way we have to be very careful about the amount of configuration changes and options are there. There isn't much meat on the bone to begin with, adding cook time without adding meat to the pot isn't a recipe for more food.


I guess here's the final question posed directly:

If we add the 6.5 PRC to the lineup right now, who's ready to put a deposit on one of the rifles in response to it?
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom