PVA Status Updates: Hancock Rifle & NUCLEUS Barreled Action

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Just another observation or two...Of course, the JHR B/A is superb, that is a given...I've started to 'assemble' my finished rifle, adding an ARCA rail and Geissele two-stage trigger...I love the Nucleus action!!! I'm very impressed with the KRG Bravo chassis, also...Solid! Great ergonomics and I find the cheek piece more than just adequate...All in all, a very fine rifle, this JHR...The final proof will be when I get around to shooting it!!!MyJHR.jpg
 
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jcwarrior87

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Welp finally got my ba in. And not happy with it.... I asked for 1/2x28 theads on my 223 ai barrel and I got 5/8x24.... going to be fun finding a break that works on that.... not to mention the barrel taper is not straight at the crown. It does a weird taper at the end. The thread cap is to large. Dont know if I even want to send it back probably take 6 months to fix..... so much for their we will not speed up our production and compromise our quality. Soooooooo disappointed waited 16 months for this and they cant even get it right.
 

Steel head

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Welp finally got my ba in. And not happy with it.... I asked for 1/2x28 theads on my 223 ai barrel and I got 5/8x24.... going to be fun finding a break that works on that.... not to mention the barrel taper is not straight at the crown. It does a weird taper at the end. The thread cap is to large. Dont know if I even want to send it back probably take 6 months to fix..... so much for their we will not speed up our production and compromise our quality. Soooooooo disappointed waited 16 months for this and they cant even get it right.
Bummer.
They could easily recut it.
Area 419 makes a nice break that would work with those threads
 

kriller134

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Welp finally got my ba in. And not happy with it.... I asked for 1/2x28 theads on my 223 ai barrel and I got 5/8x24.... going to be fun finding a break that works on that.... not to mention the barrel taper is not straight at the crown. It does a weird taper at the end. The thread cap is to large. Dont know if I even want to send it back probably take 6 months to fix..... so much for their we will not speed up our production and compromise our quality. Soooooooo disappointed waited 16 months for this and they cant even get it right.
That’s a bummer man. Any pictures?
 

J-Ham

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I'm not sure I find the thread protector to be that big of a deal. I mean realistically, how much time is it going to spend on the rifle if you're putting a brake on it? Now if you'd asked for a blended brake & got that, well that would not fly. I wonder if PVA uses a pre-made thread protector & just spin them on after the threads are cut & that's it.

However, 5/8"x24 threads on a .223 kinda sucks, I'll give you that. Mistakes get made, hopefully PVA can get you fixed up to your satisfaction.
 

spife7980

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I’ll answer that, his thread caps are generic I’m pretty sure. Mine came with one even though I didn’t order but he said he does it for shipping security on every order.
 

J-Ham

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I can definitely see an advantage from a suppressor standpoint. I've not looked, but I'm guessing .223 suppressors with 5/8" threads are pretty common, or you run a .30 cal / 6.5 suppressor... Just don't get those mixed up!
 

MElank

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I also prefer and have 5/8-24 threads on my 223. Unless you want to run AR15 muzzle related accessories, the 5/8-24 makes life a lot simpler.
 

Ksracer

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It's hard to tell from the pic, but it looks like they may have polished the barrel after the threads were cut and got too aggressive on the end. I'd be more concerned that it doesn't look like the cap seats against the shoulder squarely and has a gap. (Unless you didn't screw it down all the way for the pic). If that's truly the case, double check for bullet clearance before firing a shot if you do install a brake. Also, what are those marks on the crown end?
 

bohem

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Welp finally got my ba in. And not happy with it.... I asked for 1/2x28 theads on my 223 ai barrel and I got 5/8x24.... going to be fun finding a break that works on that.... not to mention the barrel taper is not straight at the crown. It does a weird taper at the end. The thread cap is to large. Dont know if I even want to send it back probably take 6 months to fix..... so much for their we will not speed up our production and compromise our quality. Soooooooo disappointed waited 16 months for this and they cant even get it right.

Reese I just went and double checked your order. Nowhere in it is any mention of any kind about a 1/2-28 thread. If you want to change it now we can still do that but you would need to send it back in.

Your barreled action was not actually ordered as a 223AI, it was not an option of the original deal. You used the order notes to tell us that you wanted a 223AI (not an original caliber offered). We did it without any surcharge, as discussed, because of the lengthy wait involved to get the receivers.

As @spife7980 said, the caps are provided as a FREE accessory. Your order stipulates that you dont want a blended cap, or a muzzle brake.

The 5/8-24 thread is, by far margin, the most popular thread for precision rifle barrels in the North American market. There are literally hundreds of brakes available on the market in 5/8-24. Including, I might add, the Jetblast brake that we make. Then again, the Jetblast comes in 1/2-28 as well.

The odd cut you mention is called a chamfer. The chamfer functions as a protection against damage to the shoulder edge such that a ding wont leave a raised location and cause an eccentric misalignment to the muzzle device being used. In my time making rifle barrels I have seen a number of ways that field-created damage can cause accuracy issues or thread problems. A damaged shoulder is one way that has been shown to gall and misalign. So therefore we remove the possibility of it happening. Same root cause as to why we use a truncated lead thread on all muzzle threads, user level damage protection.

The barrel is contoured to maximize grip with the workholding. We covered this in this thread a couple times. For years we have done things this way, performance is never in question, and it can rarely be seen except by measuring sequential marks along the length.

@Ksracer the only marks I see near the crown appear to be latent dirt, some kind of fuzz or something, there arent any machine marks on there. The muzzle threads come lightly greased prior to final assembly and shipping. Dry SS threads are notorious for galling together therefore parts are always greased for assembly.

If there is anything else you do not understand about your barreled action I would be happy to explain it to you. It seems that your expectations and your actual order differ, and since we work to the actual order I want to clear this up. Publicly posted screenshots are available if need be.
 
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jcwarrior87

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Reese I just went and double checked your order. Nowhere in it is any mention of any kind about a 1/2-28 thread. If you want to change it now we can still do that but you would need to send it back in.

Your barreled action was not actually ordered as a 223AI, it was not an option of the original deal. You used the order notes to tell us that you wanted a 223AI (not an original caliber offered). We did it without any surcharge, as discussed, because of the lengthy wait involved to get the receivers.

As @spife7980 said, the caps are provided as a FREE accessory. Your order stipulates that you dont want a blended cap, or a muzzle brake.

The 5/8-24 thread is, by far margin, the most popular thread for precision rifle barrels in the North American market. There are literally hundreds of brakes available on the market in 5/8-24. Including, I might add, the Jetblast brake that we make. Then again, the Jetblast comes in 1/2-28 as well.

The odd cut you mention is called a chamfer. The chamfer functions as a protection against damage to the shoulder edge such that a ding wont leave a raised location and cause an eccentric misalignment to the muzzle device being used. In my time making rifle barrels I have seen a number of ways that field-created damage can cause accuracy issues or thread problems. A damaged shoulder is one way that has been shown to gall and misalign. So therefore we remove the possibility of it happening. Same root cause as to why we use a truncated lead thread on all muzzle threads, user level damage protection.

The barrel is contoured to maximize grip with the workholding. We covered this in this thread a couple times. For years we have done things this way, performance is never in question, and it can rarely be seen except by measuring sequential marks along the length.

@Ksracer the only marks I see near the crown appear to be latent dirt, some kind of fuzz or something, there arent any machine marks on there. The muzzle threads come lightly greased prior to final assembly and shipping. Dry SS threads are notorious for galling together therefore parts are always greased for assembly.

If there is anything else you do not understand about your barreled action I would be happy to explain it to you. It seems that your expectations and your actual order differ, and since we work to the actual order I want to clear this up. Publicly posted screenshots are available if need be.

7076836

Maybe you should talk with your boy about this one......
 

jcwarrior87

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O and I would like to see the email that says you would do the ai chamber for free because of the long wait.... I dont remember getting that one? Had I know it was a normal surcharge I would have more that willingly paid it... but that was never brought to my attention
 

bohem

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O and I would like to see the email that says you would do the ai chamber for free because of the long wait.... I dont remember getting that one? Had I know it was a normal surcharge I would have more that willingly paid it... but that was never brought to my attention
That was noted on a phone call record. "Cust. requested 223AI. Called, confirmed accurate. No charge, delay. JJ"

I will have a conversation with Jeremy about the thread pattern. That is nowhere on the order. To that end: Again, if you want that fixed we will gladly take care of that. As to the concerns about finding a brake for the existing thread pattern that is a non-issue as the 5/8-24 is significantly more common that 1/2-anything.
 

jonesturf

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Belligerents
@jcwarrior87 Josh brought this to my attention this afternoon. I sincerely apologize for my mistake on this. I should have caught that and amended your order in the production schedule accordingly. I will send over a call tag via email now and once we receive it we will turn it around the same day.
 

DevilDocAZ

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@jcwarrior87 Josh brought this to my attention this afternoon. I sincerely apologize for my mistake on this. I should have caught that and amended your order in the production schedule accordingly. I will send over a call tag via email now and once we receive it we will turn it around the same day.
Can't ask for much more. They owned the mistake without any excuses. Offering to make it right. Yes it's a delay, but they are offering to correct it. Mistakes happen, it's how it is settled that shows if a business really cares about their customers or their margins.

Well done.
 

Ksracer

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Just a 'little' observation...You get more flies with honey...Your tone??? A 'little' snarky...But then I'm 'Old School' JMHO, YMMV
That honey probably crystalized during the 16 month wait, I'm guessing 12 or so of which the BA was past the promised delivery date........
 
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West360

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Jan 23, 2019
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So, just out of curiosity,
In 1 week it will be 12 months from the date of order. I have received email requesting final payment. Sent FFL info and paid in full. Next day contacted PVA and was informed that no FFL info was on file. Stopped by my dealer and had him re-submit all info again. Called to confirm and they have received everything that was required on my part.
Little delay due to muzzle brake I originally ordered was still 4 weeks out was resolved by changing it to one they had on the shelf. Every thing is in place and my BA is ready to ship....
A week later still no shipping info.
Is this normal in this industry?
I’m not asking about lengthy delay, no issues waiting on quality product, just concerned about last few weeks since final invoice has been paid.
 

Stoweit

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I don’t think this normal, but what do I know.
 

BLDTYLRY

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Not normal This the first time I've ever ran into an issue like this. Usually when final payment is made the item is shipped that day. If something is missing it would require a call and a decision can be made. Going comms off and making the customer call to find out what the delay is--is poor customer service. I'm at 15-months and paid in full two months ago. I'm sure the product will be high quality but more than likely won't do business with PVA again.
 

HOLLYW00D

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Guntuna whats the full length plate your bipod is mounted to?
 

Guntuna

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Jun 17, 2018
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I opted for the 4 M-Lok screws/nuts upon checkout, and was glad I did.
The arca rail is from sawtooth rifles here in Wa, by far the best option for the KRG. They also make the accutac pic to arca bipod adapter. It works awesome for converting just about any pic bipod to arca.
 
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bohem

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So, just out of curiosity,
In 1 week it will be 12 months from the date of order. I have received email requesting final payment. Sent FFL info and paid in full. Next day contacted PVA and was informed that no FFL info was on file. Stopped by my dealer and had him re-submit all info again. Called to confirm and they have received everything that was required on my part.
Little delay due to muzzle brake I originally ordered was still 4 weeks out was resolved by changing it to one they had on the shelf. Every thing is in place and my BA is ready to ship....
A week later still no shipping info.
Is this normal in this industry?
I’m not asking about lengthy delay, no issues waiting on quality product, just concerned about last few weeks since final invoice has been paid.
We are shipping things as fast as we possibly can.

Rick answers the phone and ships parts. If the phone rings and someone needs attention then the barreled action doesn't get packed right away. We are trying to remedy this with people helping to pack and QC but that's something we are trying to get ahead of.

After having people complain that stuff got rained on when their lazy delivery guy left it next to the street we took the additional measure of packing things essentially in triplicate. Paper, plastic, then cardboard.

We shipped 20 barrels and barreled actions on Thursday alone. The work is going out, not everyone who is a customer posts things here or is even a Sniper's Hide member.

A gundealer in FL who is a friend called me this morning and said "I hate unpacking stuff from you because it's so time consuming... though I have to admit, it's never damaged".



To followup on the complaint above about the wrong thread on the muzzle.

We sent a 2 day return label that day and guaranteed a 24hour in/out fix on it.
He declined to have it changed as is his perogative.
 

Geno C.

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We are shipping things as fast as we possibly can.

Rick answers the phone and ships parts. If the phone rings and someone needs attention then the barreled action doesn't get packed right away. We are trying to remedy this with people helping to pack and QC but that's something we are trying to get ahead of.

After having people complain that stuff got rained on when their lazy delivery guy left it next to the street we took the additional measure of packing things essentially in triplicate. Paper, plastic, then cardboard.

We shipped 20 barrels and barreled actions on Thursday alone. The work is going out, not everyone who is a customer posts things here or is even a Sniper's Hide member.

A gundealer in FL who is a friend called me this morning and said "I hate unpacking stuff from you because it's so time consuming... though I have to admit, it's never damaged".



To followup on the complaint above about the wrong thread on the muzzle.

We sent a 2 day return label that day and guaranteed a 24hour in/out fix on it.
He declined to have it changed as is his perogative.
MY buddy still ended up with a busted up box but everything inside was undamaged. He works for a big box making company if you ever want to better your boxes has said he could suggest a couple changes

I’m being sincere also, not sarcastic
 
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Winny94

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We are shipping things as fast as we possibly can.

Rick answers the phone and ships parts. If the phone rings and someone needs attention then the barreled action doesn't get packed right away. We are trying to remedy this with people helping to pack and QC but that's something we are trying to get ahead of.

After having people complain that stuff got rained on when their lazy delivery guy left it next to the street we took the additional measure of packing things essentially in triplicate. Paper, plastic, then cardboard.

We shipped 20 barrels and barreled actions on Thursday alone. The work is going out, not everyone who is a customer posts things here or is even a Sniper's Hide member.

A gundealer in FL who is a friend called me this morning and said "I hate unpacking stuff from you because it's so time consuming... though I have to admit, it's never damaged".



To followup on the complaint above about the wrong thread on the muzzle.

We sent a 2 day return label that day and guaranteed a 24hour in/out fix on it.
He declined to have it changed as is his perogative.
maybe you need to time study Rick - 20/hr would be a good pace, but 20 a day? He should have plenty of time to QC and answer phones.
 

bohem

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maybe you need to time study Rick - 20/hr would be a good pace, but 20 a day? He should have plenty of time to QC and answer phones.
I have.

I would encourage you to attempt packing a barreled action up in 3 min (20/hr). I am willing to bet that with absolutely no distractions you can't do it to a level where they are unlikely to be damaged from package handlers.

Without distractions it is a 15 min job for an hourly employee doing it all day.

Then do it while the phone rings every 90s and people need 2min of your time.

Then track down the FFL info that the customer sent but didnt send in the email format requested, or they said "call this guy" and that guy doesnt have a legible PDF.

I can do it "fast" on a Saturday. But not when attention is split across tasks.

I am not trying to come off abrasive but most people have no idea how to effectively pack a rifle barrel so it doesnt get mashed. We get trashed stuff all the time, action tangs sticking thru boxes. The barrels are heavy, slender, smooth and prone to poking thru boxes.

People on here complain about our packing job if the delivery guy leaves their signature required box out in the rain without a signature. Somehow that becomes my fault, so my response is that we pack the hell out of stuff.

Remember, shipping a blank is a lot different than shipping a complete barrel. The barrels have a lot of expensive machine work exactly in the most damage prone areas.

This is why I absorb the expense of making thread protectors to simply give away on every threaded barrel. It is an additional layer of protection against the people who throw boxes around without a care.
 
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Guntuna

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Jun 17, 2018
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That is an excellent photo! Nice looking rifle. I like what you did with the name plate.
Thanks, just got it together and going to the range tomorrow. I think the plate on the side adds to the custom look and separates it instantly from a standard r700 With KRG stock.. So far in initial inspection, the barrel work and action feel is the finest I have ever seen or handled. Nice work! Range update to follow.
 

Ranger188

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As a 35yr UPS driver, I can state to PVA's packing. Took me a couple of minutes to unpack my barrel. It was over packed. (good job)
So as to packing it, it would take a lot longer to do this job.
I always told customers or business to spend a little more time and use a little more packing and tape
and get it there the first time. A little time and money spent now is much better than filing a claim
and dealing with a unhappy customer, time lost and still having to reship it again.....
 

kriller134

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I feel for whoever has to track down ffl info at PVA. Josh is not bullshitting when he says it takes a lot of time to hunt down a customer's ffl info. All of the ffls I've ever dealt with do not just give out their info to the public, so as a customer, you kinda have to stay on top of it to make sure they sent it over to PVA. Also if PVA is shipping to California, they have to get a CFLC and send that along with the rifle or else a CA ffl won't accept the transfer. It's a pain in the ass.
 
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Bradu

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maybe you need to time study Rick - 20/hr would be a good pace, but 20 a day? He should have plenty of time to QC and answer phones.
20 an hour? I would hate to receive a gun or barreled action packages in 3 minutes. I can't see that unless you tossed it in a plane case the stuck it in the cardboard box. Even then, I dont see 3 minutes long enough to get the shipping label, a box and material to package it and the gun for that order.
 

Bradu

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As a 35yr UPS driver, I can state to PVA's packing. Took me a couple of minutes to unpack my barrel. It was over packed. (good job)
So as to packing it, it would take a lot longer to do this job.
I always told customers or business to spend a little more time and use a little more packing and tape
and get it there the first time. A little time and money spent now is much better than filing a claim
and dealing with a unhappy customer, time lost and still having to reship it again.....
As someone that has had a barrel hanging out of the package with damaged threads, it's good to hear they are taking the time to do it right. I've also had bolts packaged poorly and damaged upon arrival. Why in the fuck people would complain about this is fucking amazing. I get that people are upset with lead times but wait til you receive a product damaged then see how that works out.

No, neither of these issues were from PVA just to make it clear. I hope PVA can get caught up without pissing off too many customers and losing future business because of this. I am sure he isn't happy about the way things are going and has heard about it from more than just people on here.
 

Nathan11B

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During my time packing in the warehouse at my job, fluorescent lightbulbs took an average of 3-4minutes that’s if they are straight forward. The bigger flus would take 5-15minutes. Mind you I’m packing bulbs from 3ft-8ft and sending them across the country and internationally.

Now talking guns and machined parts, if he’s talking about if he’s doing 1/every 15minutes that’s sounds pretty good. I mean we are talking about machined threads and parts. If they are standard cardboard boxes used for packaging plus whatever material that’s a pretty good start.

@bohem it sounds like Rick is doing a fine job, I’m betting the QC piece is the part that’s burning up time. The only way to quicken the process would adding help on the QC or packing. Looking at normalize packing and QC procedures. I can’t imagine the challenges of running a shop and getting product out. I’m one of the orders waiting for fulfillment. Hope you’re able to stay on task.
 

Winny94

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I have.

I would encourage you to attempt packing a barreled action up in 3 min (20/hr). I am willing to bet that with absolutely no distractions you can't do it to a level where they are unlikely to be damaged from package handlers.

Without distractions it is a 15 min job for an hourly employee doing it all day.

Then do it while the phone rings every 90s and people need 2min of your time.

Then track down the FFL info that the customer sent but didnt send in the email format requested, or they said "call this guy" and that guy doesnt have a legible PDF.

I can do it "fast" on a Saturday. But not when attention is split across tasks.

I am not trying to come off abrasive but most people have no idea how to effectively pack a rifle barrel so it doesnt get mashed. We get trashed stuff all the time, action tangs sticking thru boxes. The barrels are heavy, slender, smooth and prone to poking thru boxes.

People on here complain about our packing job if the delivery guy leaves their signature required box out in the rain without a signature. Somehow that becomes my fault, so my response is that we pack the hell out of stuff.

Remember, shipping a blank is a lot different than shipping a complete barrel. The barrels have a lot of expensive machine work exactly in the most damage prone areas.

This is why I absorb the expense of making thread protectors to simply give away on every threaded barrel. It is an additional layer of protection against the people who throw boxes around without a care.
I'm not about to tell someone how to do their job, but I will ask the question; if your choke point is the QC, packer, phone man and he is spending ~57% of his time on the phone (23 hrs/wk in a 40 hr work week, and I bet you can't remember the last time any of you worked just 40 hours) at what point is help hired to take over packing?
It's funny you mention I may not understand how long it takes to package a barreled action or barrel because I would confidently say I have done that more than 90% of the other non dealer/mfg members on this site and I don't believe 3-5 mins is unrealistic provided all the shipping materials are readily available, organized and accessible.
I will also say my last PVA barrel, which was received late 2018, did come very well packaged, but packaged very inefficiently. I.e. a lot of wrapped bubble wrap and packing tape to hold it in place. Pipe insulators are your friend - they protect better and more completely, and can be cut oversized to protect fragile machine work and when cut to size for a snug fit in the box, prevent any chance of the muzzle, and/or chamber / Tang protruding.
I wouldn't have thought that to be a unique idea but I've actually shipped 2 barrels to 2 different shipping managers and both thought it was a fantastic use of resources, so it can't hurt to float you that idea to cut down on packing time.
 

sold7

Private
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Sep 22, 2018
11
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2 Order 241? 6.5 CM BA picked up today at my FFL

looks good will try it out this week end
Shot it out to 1550 yesterday very happy with final product. Just wish I had bought the jet blast break at the same time.

bohem what is the delivery time of a break if I order?
 

Jake the dog

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Shot it out to 1550 yesterday very happy with final product. Just wish I had bought the jet blast break at the same time.

bohem what is the delivery time of a break if I order?

I don't want to speak for PVA, but I ordered a jet Blast last month, came in 3 days
 

ThePretzel

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I feel for whoever has to track down ffl info at PVA. Josh is not bullshitting when he says it takes a lot of time to hunt down a customer's ffl info. All of the ffls I've ever dealt with do not just give out their info to the public, so as a customer, you kinda have to stay on top of it to make sure they sent it over to PVA. Also if PVA is shipping to California, they have to get a CFLC and send that along with the rifle or else a CA ffl won't accept the transfer. It's a pain in the ass.
I stand by my offer to assist with developing a system that will make selecting an FFL easy and painless for the 98% of customers that use an FFL that has existed since before August 2018 (or whenever the ATF's latest full listing of FFL holders has been released).