PVA Status Updates: Hancock Rifle & NUCLEUS Barreled Action

bohem

PVA's HMFIC
Jan 6, 2009
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Im hoping the nucleus ships before winter picks up here in New Mexico. Love to shoot before the snow fall! Hope do you think the nucleus will compare to the impact precision or tl3? Purely from performance.. Not price
Not sure what you mean by performance but the prototype action here is smooth and reliable. Excellent extraction, excellent ejection, and the Hancock production barrel in 6 creed is about 1,760rds of factory hornady 108 eldm ammo with groups near and far that rival customs costing 2+x as much
 
Nov 22, 2010
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So according to Patriot Valleys Instagram page, the first John Hancock has been assembled and engraved. He said barrels are waiting for customers who preordered they are just waiting on the ATF. Not quite sure what the ATF has to do with the pre order barrels, I imagine he is waiting for the ATF to ship the rifles. Anyone have any insight on what that means?
 

flyer

Sergeant of the Hide
Apr 25, 2018
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PVA got a new engraving laser, there are specs for serializing receivers and marking barrels, they might have to send in samples for approval.

Going from a "gunsmith" to a manufacturer might require a different type of FFL which could mean some jumping through hoops.

I don't know if either of those are the case but those are two ways ATF could be holding up the show.
 

Winny94

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Nov 19, 2013
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I think everyone needs to take a step back and relax . We’re talking about a NEWLY released product. Be patient and you’ll get a quality product from quality people.
When the MFG who said they get the first X qty of Nucleus actions says the first rifle has been assembled, it is fine to start asking questions again we specially considering the last update we got was "late May".
 
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flyer

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Apr 25, 2018
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I get it but this is a significant milestone if this means the first batch of Nucleus actions shipped.

That means regular customer orders are going to start shipping relatively soon and I can start trying to project when my batch will get delivered once we see order numbers from the second batch of customer actions.

Progress! We get to say "look, this isn't vapor-ware". People will be reviewing production John Hancock rifles and Nucleus actions.

We have had to wait a bit longer than expected but this might be our first look at the light at the end of the tunnel.

I'm happy, the parts I've bought for my Nucleus will have a home at some point.
 
Feb 18, 2017
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Not sure what you mean by performance but the prototype action here is smooth and reliable. Excellent extraction, excellent ejection, and the Hancock production barrel in 6 creed is about 1,760rds of factory hornady 108 eldm ammo with groups near and far that rival customs costing 2+x as much
By performance I meant is it going to bind up on me during an Albuquerque match in the sand and dirt the way my defiance does. Am I going to have to break it down half way through every match to clean it to keep it functional. And really wondering if it ships with trigger pins! Don't have to reply, just thinking out loud and I know yall are busy.
 
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Doubtful, being able to run full of dirt and still run reliably was one of Ted’s selling points with the M5. I doubt that’s not one of his selling points with this action.
 

**DRB**

New Hide Member
Jan 29, 2018
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Doubtful, being able to run full of dirt and still run reliably was one of Ted’s selling points with the M5. I doubt that’s not one of his selling points with this action.
Is there a precision anything that allows for "full of sand" tolerances!?!
 

steve123

Lt. Colonel
Mar 16, 2008
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By performance I meant is it going to bind up on me during an Albuquerque match in the sand and dirt the way my defiance does. Am I going to have to break it down half way through every match to clean it to keep it functional. And really wondering if it ships with trigger pins! Don't have to reply, just thinking out loud and I know yall are busy.
Bolt binding is one of those things I absolutely hate and when two of my friends bought Deviants when they first came out, that had severe binding, I swore to make sure I bought an action that was the opposite.

The Nucleus I messed with at Shot was hard to get to bind, very smooth and the bolt lift, more so bolt closing, were amazing. IMO Ted has the tolerances for dirt getting in his actions and them still functioning just right. My Mausingfield worked flawlessly in the windiest and dustiest 2 day match I've been to, which impressed some onlookers in my squad that weekend. I'm guessing the Nucleus will be the same way???!!!
 
Feb 18, 2017
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Is there a precision anything that allows for "full of sand" tolerances!?!
Yes.. But the ability to run in very sandy and dusty conditions usually comes at the expense of a loose, sloppy bolt. However with the nucleus having what appears to be 3 raceways, I was curious if that allowed them to maintain smoothness, ability to run very dirty, and still not have a bolt that feels like a hot dog in a hallway! The tl3 a guy at my last match had ran flawlessly the entire match, but it still felt a little on the sloppy side.. Not savage action sloppy, but not defiance tight either.
 
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Feb 18, 2017
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Bolt binding is one of those things I absolutely hate and when two of my friends bought Deviants when they first came out, that had severe binding, I swore to make sure I bought an action that was the opposite.

The Nucleus I messed with at Shot was hard to get to bind, very smooth and the bolt lift, more so bolt closing, were amazing. IMO Ted has the tolerances for dirt getting in his actions and them still functioning just right. My Mausingfield worked flawlessly in the windiest and dustiest 2 day match I've been to, which impressed some onlookers in my squad that weekend. I'm guessing the Nucleus will be the same way???!!!
I hope so, the anticipation is killing me. This has been worse than waiting on a suppressor, but I'm thinking it will be well worth the wait in the end
 
Likes: jgs8163
Feb 16, 2017
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So for those of us that ordered barreled actions early (in my case Jan 21) when can we expect delivery, since now it seems we're behind the Hancock orders?

Anyway, the way it's looking is that the very first actions for JHR's are going to ship to PVA at the last couple days of May. The first actions being shipped to customers are for the Hancocks, not Nucleus, as we placed a large PO before the project was ever announced and that was part of the deal. Retail actions are coming immediately after that and Ted's looking to be shipping to FFL's too.
I finally made it CONUS for a week of leave and was hoping I would have it by now, but I have plenty of other rifles to shoot so I'm not at all upset, but I wouldn't mind delaying my delivery if I could change my order to a custom/lighter barrel profile since I'm going to be OCONUS for awhile now.
 
Feb 16, 2017
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Bolt binding is one of those things I absolutely hate and when two of my friends bought Deviants when they first came out, that had severe binding, I swore to make sure I bought an action that was the opposite.

The Nucleus I messed with at Shot was hard to get to bind, very smooth and the bolt lift, more so bolt closing, were amazing. IMO Ted has the tolerances for dirt getting in his actions and them still functioning just right. My Mausingfield worked flawlessly in the windiest and dustiest 2 day match I've been to, which impressed some onlookers in my squad that weekend. I'm guessing the Nucleus will be the same way???!!!
Hey Steve, how would you compare the resistance to binding vs. a Bighorn TL3? That's the action I have most experience with, and although I love it, I did notice that it sometimes would bite a bit when the bolt was at the rear and being pushed forward with even a little upwards pressure.

I'm glad to hear the bolt lift is light. How does it compare to a standard Remington 700? About the same, a little lighter maybe? I'm assuming smoother no doubt.
 

flyer

Sergeant of the Hide
Apr 25, 2018
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Warning, speculation:

PVA's initial order of John Hancock receivers are probably marked by ARC so they can't be sold as barreled actions or bare receivers.

Assuming that PVA pre-sold more than their initial order of John Hancock rifles, that would put barreled actions somewhat behind and waiting on barrels to get cut too.

My order (with ARC) was put in on the 25th so there is a slim chance my Nucleus will beat your barrelled action but I'm still not expecting mine too soon. Hopefully July, any time in June would be outstanding. By August I'll be getting anxious again.
 
Jan 23, 2014
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That would make sense. I’m just wondering how I would feel if ARC front loaded PVA finished actions before delivering to customers who ordered directly from them. My ARC order went in on 1/16, the earliest mention of the John Hancock I found was 1/18. PVA’s Instagram on 1/18 mentions the announcement of the Hancock. The earliest it shows up here on the hide is 1/20. If customers get their rifles from PVA before those who ordered the nucleus from ARC prior to the Hancock announcement, that would suck.
I believe Josh/PVA stated in one of his prior updates that he had ordered a large batch of actions from Ted at ARC prior to the ARC or Hancock announcement. Here is his comment.....

“Anyway, the way it's looking is that the very first actions for JHR's are going to ship to PVA at the last couple days of May. The first actions being shipped to customers are for the Hancocks, not Nucleus, as we placed a large PO before the project was ever announced and that was part of the deal. Retail actions are coming immediately after that and Ted's looking to be shipping to FFL's too.”
 
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Winny94

Sergeant
Nov 19, 2013
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So depending on how many they ordered all us that ordered directly from arc could easily be pushed back a few months.. Well damn! Wish I ordered through pva now!
Good lord I cant wait until the first batch goes out just so we can end drivel like this.

You do realize Ted had the PVA order before releasing the Nucleus to general public.
 

flyer

Sergeant of the Hide
Apr 25, 2018
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I think it's a good business move, most of the first Nucleus actions to hit the scene are going to be John Hancock rifles built with good QC and probably showing up at PRS matches.

Technically they were sold before the Nucleus action orders so although I don't like being back in the line, PVA wasn't cutting at all.
 
Nov 22, 2010
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I believe Josh/PVA stated in one of his prior updates that he had ordered a large batch of actions from Ted at ARC prior to the ARC or Hancock announcement. Here is his comment.....

“Anyway, the way it's looking is that the very first actions for JHR's are going to ship to PVA at the last couple days of May. The first actions being shipped to customers are for the Hancocks, not Nucleus, as we placed a large PO before the project was ever announced and that was part of the deal. Retail actions are coming immediately after that and Ted's looking to be shipping to FFL's too.”
Thanks for that info. I didn’t know that, my quoted comment is way off line then. So the first to be able to review the nucleus will be PVA customers, that’s interesting.
 
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Likes: jgs8163
Apr 4, 2013
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That would make sense. I’m just wondering how I would feel if ARC front loaded PVA finished actions before delivering to customers who ordered directly from them. My ARC order went in on 1/16, the earliest mention of the John Hancock I found was 1/18. PVA’s Instagram on 1/18 mentions the announcement of the Hancock. The earliest it shows up here on the hide is 1/20. If customers get their rifles from PVA before those who ordered the nucleus from ARC prior to the Hancock announcement, that would suck.
Exact same here, you and I ordered the same thing on the same day. I was bummed out when I placed my preorder with ARC, then later PVA announces they are offering barreled actions. If I would have known that was coming, and would actually be inline before me I would have done that. Instead I ordered a Nucleus early and a PVA barrel and I'll get them later and have to assemble. Oh well, at least I'm getting this summer I hope.
 
Likes: character0
Nov 22, 2010
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Exact same here, you and I ordered the same thing on the same day. I was bummed out when I placed my preorder with ARC, then later PVA announces they are offering barreled actions. If I would have known that was coming, and would actually be inline before me I would have done that. Instead I ordered a Nucleus early and a PVA barrel and I'll get them later and have to assemble. Oh well, at least I'm getting this summer I hope.
I didn’t know PVA had an order in before the Nucleus public announcement so my comment wasn’t right and I’ve deleted it. But I am in the same boat, I’m basically building a Hancock with the Bravo chassis and PVA barrel on the nucleus action. Either way, I don’t think there has been any info released on a barrel wrench either so even if I got my stuff tomorrow, how would I assemble it, a strap wrench?
 
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Winny94

Sergeant
Nov 19, 2013
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I think it's a good business move, most of the first Nucleus actions to hit the scene are going to be John Hancock rifles built with good QC and probably showing up at PRS matches.

Technically they were sold before the Nucleus action orders so although I don't like being back in the line, PVA wasn't cutting at all.
Can someone explain to me where this idea that PVA is delaying or cannibalizing actions from people who ordered direct came from Arc?
 
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Likes: BLKWLFK9

flyer

Sergeant of the Hide
Apr 25, 2018
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Can someone explain to me where this idea that PVA is delaying or cannibalizing actions from people who ordered direct came from?
Some people don't understand that the JHR receivers were sold before ARC opened up pre-orders.

I don't like being back in the line either. It's just impatience.
 
Likes: tomcatfan
Jan 23, 2014
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One thing to consider with the Hancock being out there first, is us guys building our rigs from the ground up may get some good feedback on do’s and don’ts and some good performance tips. I look forward to some range reports once the guys get them in the field. Being a southpaw I’m going to be chasing a chasis or stock once I get my Nucleus. Any productive feedback on the southpaw stock/chassis is appreciated.
 
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I didn’t know PVA had an order in before the Nucleus public announcement so my comment wasn’t right and I’ve deleted it. But I am in the same boat, I’m basically building a Hancock with the Bravo chassis and PVA barrel on the nucleus action. Either way, I don’t think there has been any info released on a barrel wrench either so even if I got my stuff tomorrow, how would I assemble it, a strap wrench?
Same here, I'm building a Hancock because like you I jumped on the Nucleus before the Hancock or barreled actions were announced. I wish this would have gone down different because I would rather have a Hancock rifle. As is, I'll have the same rifle but it won't qualify for the same class. When the Hancock was announced, I thought real hard about cancelling my Nucleus order but I had to make a fast decision and now I'm stuck with it. Oh well.
 
Feb 18, 2017
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Good lord I cant wait until the first batch goes out just so we can end drivel like this.

You do realize Ted had the PVA order before releasing the Nucleus to general public.
No I didn't until these threads started otherwise I would have just ordered the action and a barrel through pva. Am I pissed I'm behind them in the line? No. Do I wish I had ordered through pva now? Yes.
 
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Winny94

Sergeant
Nov 19, 2013
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No I didn't until these threads started otherwise I would have just ordered the action and a barrel through pva. Am I pissed I'm behind them in the line? No. Do I wish I had ordered through pva now? Yes.
You're not "behind" them. These are being batches produced - if you ordered before SHOT, you'll get yours in the first batch. PVA goes out first, but that doesn't guarantee the guys that ordered them will get them first. Admin work, payment speed, payment processing, shipping, local FFL hours will all affect final delivery, but it's not like JH guys are going to have theirs in hand for weeks without anyone getting a stripped action direct from ARC.

I thought I was impatient, but some of you guys are just ridiculous
 
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Likes: BLKWLFK9
Jan 21, 2012
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One thing to consider with the Hancock being out there first, is us guys building our rigs from the ground up may get some good feedback on do’s and don’ts and some good performance tips. I look forward to some range reports once the guys get them in the field. Being a southpaw I’m going to be chasing a chasis or stock once I get my Nucleus. Any productive feedback on the southpaw stock/chassis is appreciated.
I bought a KRG Bravo chassis with a LH Whiskey 3 backbone installed in it,and just cut out the bolt handle notch out of the outer plastic shell. I posted pics in the DIY section of the forum.
 
Likes: jgs8163
Jan 23, 2014
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I bought a KRG Bravo chassis with a LH Whiskey 3 backbone installed in it,and just cut out the bolt handle notch out of the outer plastic shell. I posted pics in the DIY section of the forum.
. How did you order this? Not a option on their page. I’ll look for your pics. Thanks
 
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flyer

Sergeant of the Hide
Apr 25, 2018
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You're not "behind" them. These are being batches produced - if you ordered before SHOT, you'll get yours in the first batch.
Looking at my order number vs. the lowest Nucleus order number I found, I'm not sure all pre SHOT orders could be fit in one batch. I hope so but wouldn't bet on it.
 

Winny94

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Nov 19, 2013
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Looking at my order number vs. the lowest Nucleus order number I found, I'm not sure all pre SHOT orders could be fit in one batch. I hope so but wouldn't bet on it.
Because you know how many per batch Ted is producing? You also know how many of those orders were for the Nucleus vs everything else they sell?
 

flyer

Sergeant of the Hide
Apr 25, 2018
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If you look at the order numbers from ARC, the orders accelerated rapidly and that coincided with the Nucleus pre-order introduction.

I think there were at least 1,000 orders between the lowest order number Nucleus order I've heard of and my number. The first Nucleus order is a big chunk of JHR receivers for PVA.

I'm sure some of those 1,000 orders were for rings and Mausingfield actions but probably not at a much greater rate than last year so lots of those orders are Nucleus.

As far as the batch size, I don't know but it's probably some multiple of the heat treat or coating batch size so he's not paying minimum order rates or maybe it's how many receivers he can get out of x lengths of bar stock. Logically you would want the smallest batch size you can do without raising your unit cost so you can get a more regular income stream. Having a ton of inventory before you can ship anything is a business practice that no one wants on their books.

In other non-news, I just opened a package containing my two used ARC magazines. They fit in my chassis just fine and I bet they will work well with my Nucleus.

I'll get more later but I wanted to make sure I have something for now without buying Magpul 5 round magazines and only using them until ARC gets magazines in stock.
 

Winny94

Sergeant
Nov 19, 2013
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If you look at the order numbers from ARC, the orders accelerated rapidly and that coincided with the Nucleus pre-order introduction.

I think there were at least 1,000 orders between the lowest order number Nucleus order I've heard of and my number. The first Nucleus order is a big chunk of JHR receivers for PVA.

I'm sure some of those 1,000 orders were for rings and Mausingfield actions but probably not at a much greater rate than last year so lots of those orders are Nucleus.

As far as the batch size, I don't know but it's probably some multiple of the heat treat or coating batch size so he's not paying minimum order rates or maybe it's how many receivers he can get out of x lengths of bar stock. Logically you would want the smallest batch size you can do without raising your unit cost so you can get a more regular income stream. Having a ton of inventory before you can ship anything is a business practice that no one wants on their books.

In other non-news, I just opened a package containing my two used ARC magazines. They fit in my chassis just fine and I bet they will work well with my Nucleus.

I'll get more later but I wanted to make sure I have something for now without buying Magpul 5 round magazines and only using them until ARC gets magazines in stock.
So the short answer to my question is "no".
 

bohem

PVA's HMFIC
Jan 6, 2009
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www.patriotvalleyarms.com
By performance I meant is it going to bind up on me during an Albuquerque match in the sand and dirt the way my defiance does. Am I going to have to break it down half way through every match to clean it to keep it functional. And really wondering if it ships with trigger pins! Don't have to reply, just thinking out loud and I know yall are busy.
I don't think it will be anything like that. With enough abuse anything can be made to lock up but we took this to a Pro/Am and let everyone shoot it a couple months ago. Factory 6mm Creed ammo, we pumped 420 rounds through it in 100rd blocks. 20 shooters, 5 rounds each, 60s each. The shooting position was in dirty gravel and there's dust on everything. The Nucleus ran like a champ and the barrel, as abused as it was from that experience, still held 1/4MOA on paper with factory ammo.

It will have trigger pins in it. The Mausingfields do now too. If you end up with an action from us without trigger pins it's an accident on my part and ARC's because I keep extra pins here just in case. If that happens, we're only a phone call away from shipping out a set. Sometimes things happen, which is why I keep extra trigger pins and scope base screws for Bighorns and Mausingfields in my parts room.

I think it's a good business move, most of the first Nucleus actions to hit the scene are going to be John Hancock rifles built with good QC and probably showing up at PRS matches.

Technically they were sold before the Nucleus action orders so although I don't like being back in the line, PVA wasn't cutting at all.
Exact same here, you and I ordered the same thing on the same day. I was bummed out when I placed my preorder with ARC, then later PVA announces they are offering barreled actions. If I would have known that was coming, and would actually be inline before me I would have done that. Instead I ordered a Nucleus early and a PVA barrel and I'll get them later and have to assemble. Oh well, at least I'm getting this summer I hope.
Keep in mind, you may have ordered the very first Nucleus once is was announced to the public and yet you would still be over 3 months behind my first PO for actions. We (PVA) had to cut a PO to ARC for 50 actions to start, and 50 actions through the course of the year to even get the project from a collaborative thought experiment to reality.

I (We/PVA) have actually been on order for Nucleus actions for going on 9 months. We were first in line, longbefore you were. You didn't know about it because everything on the action was behind NDA. That's the way things go. There are no "keep it quiet but this is what we're doing" secrets in this industry. As soon as anyone gets a peep of anything it's blasted all over the place. So... there was no discussion about it whatsoever.




We posted on Instragram that the laser artwork for the Hancock barrels is finalized and we did a burn using the production programs. The barrels for Hancocks are waiting to have a production Nucleus/Hancock action in hand to check alignment as we only have the pre-production prototype here.

Using the prototype we have been shooting all the other production components and testing for barrel longevity (since there are some concerns that folks posted when a guy using cheap-ass button blanks says they don't last as long... not a problem with our stuff) as well as dirty function, ejection, extraction, etc.
 
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flyer

Sergeant of the Hide
Apr 25, 2018
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Well how long is immediately?

Do you think he has them all there in a row and is just slapping on shipping labels?

That would be great but the way I read it, "immediately" means as soon as I can.

I'm still skeptical of one single batch for all pre SHOT orders.
 
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