PRS Gas Gun

lennyo3034

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Can someone explain how these matches are scored? It looks like rankings are scored based on time instead of points. Is it basically IDPA style scoring?

I’m hoping to shoot a couple matches next year. It conflicted with other matches this year but next year I will prioritize it.
 

Tx_Aggie

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From the PRS Gas Gun Series page:

"The Gas Gun Series utilizes a time plus penalty based scoring system for all match scoring. This means your score is your total combined time on all stages plus any penalties you may have accrued.​
Penalties are as follows:​

  • 30 seconds for any rifle targets not engaged or neutralized.
  • 15 seconds for any pistol targets not engaged or neutralized.
  • 15 seconds for hitting a “No Shoot” target.
No more than 50% of the stages at a match can utilize an unlimited round count. At least 25% of the targets in Gas Gun Series match must be 2 MOA or smaller. Maximum distance is 800 yards."​
So yeah, scored similar to most 3-gun matches and other action shooting sports.

The 3GN long range matches are also very similar to PRS Gas Gun, plus they also have tactical and open bolt gun specific divisions.
 

Tx_Aggie

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slightly off topic, but...i think i just saw yesterday on IG that the gas gun series finale was cancelled due to lack of registration

interesting
I hadn't noticed that (and haven't shot a gas gun match myself). It is interesting.
 

lennyo3034

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Thanks for the info.

I shot a local series this year with a gas gun. I tended to shoot way too fast for that sort of match but ended up doing ok on points anyways. Seems like the PRS gas gun series would be a good fit. Hope it happens next year.
 

ElvisUSMC

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The Gas Gun matches are a lot of fun, they are different from the PRS Bolt gun matches in that the ranges are shorter, targets bigger, and pistol gets mixed in. At the Kahles Gas-Gun match at Peacemaker, the stages of fire were not that different from the PRS matches they hold there. The distances were mostly in the 300-500yrd range with generous targets. The individual stage pace is faster than a normal PRS match, but slower than a 3-gun match, where you need to snort lines of pre-workout between stages to keep up.
Some of the stages were unlimited round count, which definitely changes the "game" if you chose a large frame AR, the guys shooting AR-15's would just load up 30rnd'rs and just shoot until they got the hit. So, for the stage planning on a 15 target stage allows for 1x miss/target without a reload, vs. .308 mag of 20rnds that allow for 5x misses total. There was only one stage with targets beyond 600, so while the .223/5.56 might lose out to a .308 on that stage, it made up for it on the other stages with recoil management and volume of fire. One thing the unlimited round count did influence, is the ammo you brought to the match. If you brought the match minimum of 250rnds, then you could not keep up with the guys who brought 500rnds and shot as much as required to hit the target. This is the part that I'm not sure I agree with, if the match advertises a 250rnd count to complete, the shooter would normally bring a few spare rnds for malfunctions, etc...not another 200rnds! It leverages the professional and Mil shooters, bringing cans of ammo, over the amateur who probably scraped and saved to pay for the rounds and match fee. It also, in my opinion, takes away from the precision part of this style of match since it has a PRS style association and brings it closer to LR Multi-gun. Still a ton of fun though and definitely challenging.
The addition of pistol definitely messed up a lot of dedicated rifle shooters, if you even dabble in USPSA/IDPA/3-gun you could smoke everyone else on the pistol part of the stage and then fumble through the rifle portion and still come out with a better score.
Also, if Tyler Payne from the AMU shows up, you aren't winning the match.
 

TonyTheTiger

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The Gas Gun matches are a lot of fun, they are different from the PRS Bolt gun matches in that the ranges are shorter, targets bigger, and pistol gets mixed in. At the Kahles Gas-Gun match at Peacemaker, the stages of fire were not that different from the PRS matches they hold there. The distances were mostly in the 300-500yrd range with generous targets. The individual stage pace is faster than a normal PRS match, but slower than a 3-gun match, where you need to snort lines of pre-workout between stages to keep up.
Some of the stages were unlimited round count, which definitely changes the "game" if you chose a large frame AR, the guys shooting AR-15's would just load up 30rnd'rs and just shoot until they got the hit. So, for the stage planning on a 15 target stage allows for 1x miss/target without a reload, vs. .308 mag of 20rnds that allow for 5x misses total. There was only one stage with targets beyond 600, so while the .223/5.56 might lose out to a .308 on that stage, it made up for it on the other stages with recoil management and volume of fire. One thing the unlimited round count did influence, is the ammo you brought to the match. If you brought the match minimum of 250rnds, then you could not keep up with the guys who brought 500rnds and shot as much as required to hit the target. This is the part that I'm not sure I agree with, if the match advertises a 250rnd count to complete, the shooter would normally bring a few spare rnds for malfunctions, etc...not another 200rnds! It leverages the professional and Mil shooters, bringing cans of ammo, over the amateur who probably scraped and saved to pay for the rounds and match fee. It also, in my opinion, takes away from the precision part of this style of match since it has a PRS style association and brings it closer to LR Multi-gun. Still a ton of fun though and definitely challenging.
The addition of pistol definitely messed up a lot of dedicated rifle shooters, if you even dabble in USPSA/IDPA/3-gun you could smoke everyone else on the pistol part of the stage and then fumble through the rifle portion and still come out with a better score.
Also, if Tyler Payne from the AMU shows up, you aren't winning the match.
Most of that sounds like a good time, maybe fewer unlimited round count stages would make it a great time.
I wish this format would start showing up in local club matches. I've tried getting excited about PRS style club matches but the pace is just so sloooooww and the round count on any given stage is something I already do in the field out back for practice, so it's not really exciting enough to travel for. Maybe it's just because I'm coming from a 3 gun background but I expect an adrenaline rush when I'm competing, not a mid morning nap.
 

ElvisUSMC

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It is definitely a difficult style to competition to make everyone happy. Those with a PRS background want 1 for 1 scoring vs ammo, the 3-gun'rs will say, "it's a semi-auto with a high-cap mag, what are we doing!?"
I think the difference lies in treating it as intended, a DMR match. Burner bay stages for pistol that break up the rifle work in a stage, keep the targets smaller than 3-gun and out there so you need to build a position and calculate dope. It shouldn't be a hose fest, but as you say, spiced up with more movement between positions to get the heart rate up. Keep allowing PRS style gear, tripods, bags, etc... but make the target engagement faster or more than bolt gun. There is a niche between 3-gun and PRS that it could fill, but the matches are so rare it is hard to generate a solid following.
 

Hummerdawg

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Why not just a gas gun division treat it like tactical division and shoot for a trophy its enough to motivate a lot of people
 
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ElvisUSMC

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Why not just a gas gun division treat it like tactical division and shoot for a trophy its enough to motivate a lot of people
I've brought up introducing new divisions, classes, etc..on this forum before for discussion, no more. Gamers will game, because free-recoil with 6mm BR in a 30lb rifle is, you know, "marksmanship", and traditionalist want nothing but .7.62mm M40A1 clones w/10x Unertl scopes because it was good enough for f'ing Hathcock.

Some match directors that run an "outlaw" match (from PRS rules) will have a DMR category. There is also nothing stopping anyone from taking their gasser to a PRS match. I've held my own with an AR-10 in .308, however it is definitely a challenge and you have to apply solid fundamentals. One of the problems with running an AR that can hold its own in PRS shooting is it costs almost as much as bolt gun by the time you've picked top shelf components, assembled, then tuned it so it is consistently accurate and gassed just right. Look at the top end "DMR" style gas guns, Lantac, LaRue OBR and the like, you are dropping some serious coin for an AR that will be hard pressed to shoot tighter than a bolt gun.
 

davsco

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i enjoyed the peacemaker and central carolina gas gun matches i did this year (and the one geissele match at new holland). like noted above, sort of between 3 gun and prs. looking to do more in 2019.
 
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TonyTheTiger

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Why not just a gas gun division treat it like tactical division and shoot for a trophy its enough to motivate a lot of people
A few reasons come to mind.
The current winning formula in PRS seems to be: drop heavy bag on object, drop heavy rifle on bag, balance gun with reticle on target then barely touch sub 1lb trigger.
Thats all well and good and PRS stages seem to be designed to encourage this, or at the very least designed to accommodate it.
But try that with a gas gun and reality hits. They're generally lighter with much heavier triggers and they don't balance and ride bags that well. Not many people want to drive far and pay big match fees to do things the hardest way possible, even for a division win against the other two guys you're shooting against.
I don't want to be one of those "change the way you design your matches to fit the poor choice of equipment I want to bring" guys. It's better to have a standalone match than rock a boat you don't really belong in.

Other reasons, that PRS guys don't seem to like:
Inclusion of pistols seems fitting with AR's
More movement, more physical challenge
More targets!
Speed based scoring with target sizes to match
 

Hummerdawg

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If Gas guns are their own division then they would only be competing against other gas guns for the division win. It wouldn't really matter what the bolt guns are doing. Same course of fire just separation by gas gun vs gas gun for division trophy. No need to change match makeup bring the gas gun you have and come shoot. I realize people could come to the current PRS style match and shoot their gas gun but it seems like it would be more enticing if their was trophy/bragging rights to shoot for without having to compete with the free recoiling light triggered bolt guns
 
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DisplacedTexan

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Speed based scoring with target sizes to match
I hate speed based scoring. Points based on time is why when I shoot the very rare pistol match, I don't even attempt to win as it just ends up pissing me off (plus limit to 10rds is fucking retarded).

I want to rewarded for hits on target not accuracy by volume.
 

TonyTheTiger

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I hate speed based scoring. Points based on time is why when I shoot the very rare pistol match, I don't even attempt to win as it just ends up pissing me off (plus limit to 10rds is fucking retarded).

I want to rewarded for hits on target not accuracy by volume.
Hits by volume only gets you so far up the scoreboard. If you watch the guys winning big USPSA or 3 gun matches you'll see they nearly go one for one on every target, they just do it faster than you or me. I think a gas gun match could work the same way. You could even just have mag size limits per stage, i.e. a 10 target stage with 20 rounds fired max. The fastest guys will use 10-12 rounds, some guys will do well using 15 rounds quickly, but no one is going to win using all 20 rounds every stage.
 
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TonyTheTiger

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I'll stick to one round per target, only hits count, time be damned. Worrying about time is for old men
You must have a different breed of old man in your area. The ones here can't be bothered to race something as fast as turtles, much less guns.
But even the current PRS format requires you to be mindful of the clock. You can't win if you run out of time.
 
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Hollywood 6mm

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Flori-duh.
I looked today the 2019 matches are up when I sorted by Gas Gun nothing came up.
From the looks of it, nothing is going to happen with it, either. The name of the FB group was changed, too. Considering how few people signed up for the gas gun finale last year, it's not really a surprise.
 

davsco

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i did three gas gun matches last year (peacemaker, central carolina, geissele/new holland) and hoping to do more in 2019!
 

Tx_Aggie

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You must have a different breed of old man in your area. The ones here can't be bothered to race something as fast as turtles, much less guns.
But even the current PRS format requires you to be mindful of the clock. You can't win if you run out of time.
Even in time based scoring efficient hits beats volume, the saying "you can't miss fast enough to win" may be cliche', but it's definitely true.

As for PRS Gas Gun, a guy can still shoot the 3GN Long Range matches, as they are more or less the same format as what PRS tried to do with their separate gas gun series - scoring is time plus penalties, no mag cap limits, pistol and rifle, out to 800-1000 yards depending on caliber/rifle type - plus they have a couple of bolt gun divisions.

And around here the guys winning overall are just as likely to be shooing bolt guns as gassers....because like you said, the format rewards efficient, accurate hits on target, not volume of fire.

Those matches are a lot of fun and a nice change of pace from the standard PRS fare.
 
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502Chevelle

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They had a couple 3GN long range matches at VIR in southern Va, and they were pretty fun. I’m having trouble finding info on upcoming matches. Anyone have any info on them?
 
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ShooterwithNoName

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They had a couple 3GN long range matches at VIR in southern Va, and they were pretty fun. I’m having trouble finding info on upcoming matches. Anyone have any info on them?
I'm interested in these matches too. They are fairly close to me and I'm hoping to go try one out this year.
 

Tx_Aggie

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They had a couple 3GN long range matches at VIR in southern Va, and they were pretty fun. I’m having trouble finding info on upcoming matches. Anyone have any info on them?
I haven't seen a schedule posted yet.
 

combatgrunt84

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I know they have the Mason Dixon Series and you can shoot a gas gun in the Open Div. I have yet to see any Gas Gun specific matches I keep checking everday.
 

davsco

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email i got mid-december:
UNIVERSITY RIFLE CLUB SHOOTS

APRIL 21 PRO-AM Shoot
MAY 25 26? Sniper Team Shoot Saturday Shoot/Possible 2 Day? ****TO BE DETERMINED BY STAFF AND PLANNERS IF ONLY ONE DAY SATURDAY*****

GIESSELE GAS GUN CHALLENGE
JUNE 16 DMR/RECCE
AUGUST 24 DMR/RECCE (Saturday Shoot)
SEPTEMBER 22 DMR/RECCE
OCTOBER 20 DMR/RECCE FINALE
 

ShooterwithNoName

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Thanks for the info davsco, I just went through everything for the Geiselle matches. About 6.5hr drive for me but I'm really wanting to try one out. Good looking out.
 

davsco

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Thanks for the info davsco, I just went through everything for the Geiselle matches. About 6.5hr drive for me but I'm really wanting to try one out. Good looking out.
hopefully peacemaker will do some or at least one this year, closer for both of us!

and '84, no idea on sniper team shoot but guessing teams of two work thru a course of fire.
 

Darqusoull13

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4 PRS matches and an NRL on the schedule for me shooting a gas gun. I'm in it to shoot, lets go!:cool:
 

davsco

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Do you need a PRS Membership for this?
doesn't seem that PRS is doing any gas gun stuff this year, nothing showing on their schedule. so i'd say any 'gas gun' matches seem to be outlaw or at least outside the realm/domain of PRS. plus i think PRS reversed their wanting anyone shooting PRS matches to be paid members. so either way, no paid membership needed.
 

davsco

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https://practiscore.com/2019-nra-dmr-championship/register

i will be doing this one!

This affordable NRA Sanctioned gas gun only, two-day match will be governed by PRS gas gun scoring rules and managed by the NRA Competitive Shooting Division staff with support from Peacemaker and PRS. This match will have precision rifle targets out to 700 yards and in some cases 800 yards. Stages will be set in bays, natural terrain and long distance ranges.
 
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502Chevelle

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That has the potential to be a good match. Peacemaker is a really cool range. I’m torn because my homeboys at vprc are shooting the same weekend.