Practicing with Night Vision ...

Jan 5, 2014
650
34
28
Wabaunsee, KS
2018-03-18
1200-1500
50F
10 MPF ESE

Goals: 6.5G(18) rezero

Environment: Overcast, small amount of mirage during most of zeroing, then a ton of mirage showed up. Mirage is good and bad. Wind was highly variable in direction and intensity.

Equipment: 6.5G(18), NF 7-35x Tremor-3, 123 AMAX, Bushy AE 1600

Activity: Setup at 91 meters and ran 5 rds off the tripod with the magnetospeed. The avg speed was 2422 with SD 12. Previous 5 rds was 2413 SD 12.5 So I split the difference with 2417 and SD 12.2.
Then zeroed at 100yds prone.

Then went to 500yds (known distance). Throwing dirt up in the high for wind direction. First it blew from 90 off the bullet path. Later it blew from 180 off the bullet path and after that the dirt went straight up and came straight down.
The mirage was boiling.
The orange dots I put in the center of the paper target were jumping around 0.2 mil in the reticle in all directions.
The wind was highly variable in direction and intensity.
AB said 3.7 up and I guess 0.2 right for wind.

First 5 rd group at the paper. Elevation is decent, but wind stringing me out.



Then 5 rd group at the steel. I remembered to paint it first.



Then went to 663 meters (unknown distance lased with Bushy). That's 725yds. AB said up 7.3. Krestrel said 5.5 MPH from 90 degrees off the bullet path or 0.6 right.

I could not see the target prone so switched to tripod sitting.




The mirage was still bad.



First round the dust was a few inches left and high. I reduced wind hold by .2 and elevation hold by .2 (5 inches) I'm shooting down hill but not sure by how much, but probably enough to make me a little high.

Second rd was hit, repeated, third rd was hit.

Results/Summary: The NF sure is good at seeing the mirage !!! Mirage is good as it gives you a good read on the wind. Mirage is bad because is makes the target jump around and it makes the target fuzzy. Backing off on the magnification reduces the fuzzy a bit. I think I read messing with the parallax can reduce the jumping around, but I messed with the parallax and I didn't see the jumping around stop. Will go hunt for those words.
 

The King

Showercookie Monster
Sep 17, 2004
903
161
43
Denver, Colorado
3-18-18
1900-2100
40F
15 S-SW

Goals: confirm zero before match

Environment: overcast and cold, 6900asl, High desert

equipment: 6.5 CM and 556 Semi rigs, 2x OmniIV Simrad KN203, NF, night spotter rig, elir, pvs-14s

Activity: zero lasers and simrads. Zero nightspot rig. Move from 100m steel to 1km on both guns.
2896B506-C33D-4123-AD57-D2105A138025.jpeg 97919688-EA23-4862-AFAC-E1C3F4EA6C7B.jpeg

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Likes: wigwamitus

The King

Showercookie Monster
Sep 17, 2004
903
161
43
Denver, Colorado
It really works good. Setup this way you don’t need a night vision rig for your laser. It cowitnesses perfectly, with adjustable zero.

That and you can see the laser rangefind through the pvs-14. You know you hit it.
 
Jan 5, 2014
650
34
28
Wabaunsee, KS
How far out can you resolve sh^t with that setup?

On night with good moon?

On overcast night with no moon stars?

With illuminator?

Without Illuminator?

Sh^t like

Cow,
Yote,
Rabbit

??
==
I recognize the 14, the Luna and the Manfrotto ... what is the LRF and what is the Spotter?
 

The King

Showercookie Monster
Sep 17, 2004
903
161
43
Denver, Colorado
Lrf is a sig Kilo 2400. Spotter is the Leupold with a kinetic cage.

Last night was no very low lume. With the Illuminator I was able to spot the 850m man targets and shoot them successfully.

No Illuminator only about 250m for men.

It isn’t near as hardcore as the simrad rifles but with the Illuminator the spotter can tag something and the shooter follows up.

Side note the Simrad equipped gas guns did great for night shooting. Solid sub-moa.

C95711A8-3F43-4F88-8752-141DD37B125E.jpeg
 
Likes: wigwamitus
Jan 5, 2014
650
34
28
Wabaunsee, KS
I've heard good things about the SIMRADs ... but worry about humpin' them up the hills and through the woods and across the creeks ... like we have around here ... looks like it might be a bit awkward. Do you just sling 'em' over your shoulders and head out !?

So the "kenetic cage" is the manufacturer ??
 
Aug 21, 2007
1,130
87
48
Cage on the spotter - is it attached to the spotter in some capacity? Does it stay on the spotter at all times?

What does a SIMRAD weigh? Physically How big is it in a pack? Big coffee can?
 

redneckbmxer24

Gunny Sergeant
Jan 15, 2005
5,095
266
83
VA
What does a SIMRAD weigh? Physically How big is it in a pack? Big coffee can?
A KN203FAB weighs 3lbs 14.5oz and a KN253FAB weighs 2lbs 11oz.

Size wise for KN203 closer to a small coffee can. KN253 is just larger in diameter than a PVS-30. I can provide outside objective measurements if you’d like.

In the soft cases they come with aren’t terribly large. The case is smaller than most dump bags you’d attach to a belt. Probably 11”x7”x4”. About 3” wider than the soft case that PVS-30’s come in but same length and depth.
 
Jan 7, 2014
87
2
8
Lrf is a sig Kilo 2400. Spotter is the Leupold with a kinetic cage.

Last night was no very low lume. With the Illuminator I was able to spot the 850m man targets and shoot them successfully.

No Illuminator only about 250m for men.

It isn’t near as hardcore as the simrad rifles but with the Illuminator the spotter can tag something and the shooter follows up.

Side note the Simrad equipped gas guns did great for night shooting. Solid sub-moa.

View attachment 6885501
Nice setup! I just picked up a KN203FAB but I haven't gotten the mount set up yet. I'm heading out to shoot w/ my PVS-30 in a few minutes to confirm POI at 200 yd. At 50 yd the day and night shots were touching so I have a great deal of confidence in the system thus far. Great image too. Here is my night spotter, it would definitely benefit from better glass in the spotting scope itself but it is incredibly cost effective and definitely gets the job done. The Streamlight SuperTac IR has since been replaced w/ something w/ a more focused beam.

ETA: can't get the pic to show up correctly so I just added it as a link. Night spotter/rangefinder
 

The King

Showercookie Monster
Sep 17, 2004
903
161
43
Denver, Colorado
As others have posted the Optics hub stays on the spotter and is a good unit. Works with several spotters too. Takes MLOK stuff.

As for the KN203 I use spuhr mounts. I have and old style side recoil lug mount One and a newer style top lug one.

I cut the spuhr cap to have an old style recoil lug slot as well as the new ones, and shortened the old recoil lug to clear the main body of the spuhr. It is ROCK solid on there now, and cannot move. The old mount is what I’m using to shoot that .3” group.

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The King

Showercookie Monster
Sep 17, 2004
903
161
43
Denver, Colorado
Also to answer the simrad carry question. I pop it off and carry it on the side of my pack. I use dual 14s and an IR laser for shooting that can’t tolerate setup time. It’s lighter Than it looks
 
Dec 23, 2008
1,528
30
48
ohio
simrad weighs no more then a pvs-30. i ran simrads for 7-8 years and they work fantastic. once you become familiar with them they are hard to beat for the money.

a trick to mitigate the offset is simply zero the simrad 3.75" low of your poa like you are supposed to then dial 1mil on your day optic. you will now be poa/poi from 100yd to whatever your dope is for 1mil. generally 300yd on most cartridges.
 
Jan 5, 2014
650
34
28
Wabaunsee, KS
2018-03-24/25

Goals: Test new configs with .22LR(16) and Helmet

1000-1030
50F
15 NW

Environment: Cool breeze blowing, solid overcast

Equipment: .22LR(16) with XTR2 1.5-8x, LM IR-laser, eley 36ge HP Subsonic, TH bump, Patrol 19mm, 1x, 640(60) on left eye, PVS-14 with PAS-29/COTI on right eye. Helmet not used in day.

Activity: I had noticed more tree rat activity in the "racetrack" area out my kitchen window. My kitchen window is upstairs, and about 45 feet about the creek bed. I can crank open the window and fire with the .22LR(16) out the window without breaking anything. So, I thought I would remove the usual ODIN 17mm, 1x 320(30) I have on the .22LR these days and rezero with a day optic for tree ratting.



That scope is Burris xtr2 1.5-8x CQ MIL DFP. And is a perfect scope for the .22LR though that wasn't what I got it for.

So zeroed at 25yds. That gives double zero of 70yds. Holds are:
100yds 4 inches
150yds 18 inches
200yds 45 inches

Put the setup into practice and got one tree rat at 45yds. There is a 40-50 foot rocky creek bank behind this area, so I am level with tree rats about 20 foot up in the trees, so I can even shoot them out of trees. This one was in the crook of a branch and about level with me at about 45yds, so I aimed dead center and he jumped/fell out of the tree. Here is pic from outside on the deck which is outside the kitchen window.



A more powerful gun would probably shatter the glass in the windows, but the .22LR subsonic ammo does not, so can use the kitchen as the "hide".

==

2000-2100
40F
10 N

Equipment: Using helmet, ir-laser

Activity: First co-witnesses the laser max ir-laser on the .22lr to the reticle on the day scope. Used the Night Optics day/night adapter and second 14. Aimed at mineral feeder 415yds away to have good aiming spot for co-witnessing.

Then scanned about with Patrol and saw critters 200yds West. COTI could not separate them out from the trees and 14 could not see them either. Proceeded to a spot in the shadows South of the Green house. Reacquireed the four deer now at 100yds.







Watched the deer proceed South and close to within 70yds, the reopen distance to about 130yds. I was able to "dry fire" with the laser and the gun on safe. The COTI/14 could see the deer during this movement sequence. I was able to leave the COTI on "edge mode" to help conserve batteries. I actually removed the KYDEX cover from the laser and was able to practice holding up over the deer and still see the laser off the trees behind.

I was able to back away to the NW and get on the other side of the greenhouse without behind detected.
This was a dark night with no moon due to the overcast. The breeze was washing out the thermal a bit. But the sound of the wind helped mitigate any crunching sound I was making on the ground.

Summary: The patrol, 14/29 combo works! The patrol on 2x can do decent intermediate distance detection and ID hands free on head. And at least within 150yds, the 14/29 can engage with the laser under most conditions. I will try this combo some more.

--

2230-2300
40F
10N

Equipment: Took the 5.56(10.3) with mk3 60mm this time. Got 1 rat at 70yds on 2x (9x net). Used tree branch for support. First shot I was wobbling right, second shot I was wobbling left. Third shot the rat splattered. The rat was moving but not fast enough to reach cover/concealment.

==
0200-0230
30F
10NE

Equipmet: Back to the Patrol, 14/29, .22LR setup.

Here is a shot of the cattle at about 450yds with the patrol.



And here is a shot of two deer bedded down at about 400yds. If you look at the bump up on the hill in about the center of the pic, that is a mineral feeder at 415yds. At 7 o'clock and 8 o'clock from that mineral feeder about 80% of the way up the hill the mineral feeder is on top of, you can see a pair of white dots. Those are the bedded down deer.
Now is that a PID? No. But I have seen bedded down deer in that spot on a number of occasions that I was able to get closer to and PID and at this distance they looked like that. My guess is those are the same deer I saw earlier.

 
Jan 5, 2014
650
34
28
Wabaunsee, KS
I had the PVS-14 and PAS-29 on the right eye together ... so you see one image through the one eye. The thermal image is overlaid on top of the NV image via that "periscope" thingy you might see protruding from the COTI in front of the 14 lens. So even one-eyed people would see this fused image.



==
The patrol was on the left eye as a separate spotter for intermediate (say out to 500yds or so) detection/PID. I didn't try to fuse all those together with my brain, kept them separate this time.
 

The King

Showercookie Monster
Sep 17, 2004
903
161
43
Denver, Colorado
2000-2300hrs
55 def
10mph wind from S-SW

Objective: Mobile operations with SIMRAD
2 person sniper team - 1 spotter, 1 shooter. Simulate a real life scenario using steel targets.

Activities - approached cave entrance guarded by 2 OPFOR. Engaged notional OPFOR at 600 M. 2 1 hit kills. Relocated while observing entrance for QRF or change of guard.

Scenario narrator Observed relief for earlier downed guards moving to position and called it in. Downed them from 700m before they noticed the bodies(30 second timer to shoot).

Movement and setup in this terrain was extremely difficult. loose rocks and dirt covered like a rug in extremely thick cactus undergrowth.

i kept having to tell mother nature my nuts weren’t a pincushion.

Equipment: Radian Weapons Model 1 18” SPR, Nightforce 2.5-10x32, SIMRAD KN203FAB, Plenty Of PVS-14s, vhf comms.

Key equipment notes: i forgot my pack, and my TAB gear ground sheet. the ground sheet would have saved my nuts.

my spotter has never assembled this whole spotting rig. that was a less good thing. we also realized the laser rangefinder would mount on the side of the simrad, allowing for leaving the spotter and bringing another LR gun and simrad for him to use.

my light, lighter, and lightest push for gear weight reduction seems to be paying off.

the radian model one is really excellent. i recommend highly.
D2A28664-24FC-4123-A127-E682DE634EBB.jpeg 49293CA7-4663-4BF2-8A61-F32353E62AF9.jpeg CF08536E-63FC-4C96-9F3A-08504DF4D037.jpeg


Other notes:
and fuck i hurt and am old.
 
Jan 5, 2014
650
34
28
Wabaunsee, KS
... i forgot my pack ...
So no water for hydration !!??

... light, lighter, and lightest ...
My backpack water bladder is 3 liters, so not having that would reduce my weight by about 6.5 pounds !!! ;)

I like this sort of exercise, thanks for sharing !!!
==
One variation we hope to try soon is that I have set out the steel targets in unknown (to my buddy) locations. I will go heat them, in pairs, on the 4-wheeler and leave the 4-wheeler out there to heat the next pair ... then I lead my buddy in the general direction, but he has to see the targets and then we setup and engage ... then I go grab the 4 wheeler and heat steel for the next pair, etc. If we use subs, then we can simulate greater distances. He has a 7.62(16) stoner. I'd be using a .308WIN(20) bolt gun.
 

The King

Showercookie Monster
Sep 17, 2004
903
161
43
Denver, Colorado
Clarity in nods is a bizarre thing. it’s a factor of tube quality/generation and light gathering capability.

So best case scenario = great tube, giant optics, moonlight.

Worst case is shit tube, small optics, pitch black.

IR illuminator helps a lot.

Where the SIMRAD comes in is if you have an Omni IV tube model, it has 9/10 of the performance of the most advanced tube made today...and a 100mm giant assed lens. So you get PVS-30 level performance or better.

so it looks like looking through a pvs-14 at 1x, just at 10x. and that 10x brings the person sized steel target into appearing to be at 100m. easy engage range for a 14 with a laser.

It is very hard to take good pics through NV as the noise in the image moves and as such 20% or the image is noise dots, but a hundredth of a second later the noise overlay is over different places and you can clearly see what is downrange...and then it moves again. The picture captures all 20% of the noise right over the one spot and thus you can’t see very well.

To summarize, the simrad is everything a modern unit is performance wise, and a pain in the ass to mount, carry, and adjust.

That looks like a pile of fun, is the SIMRAD pretty clear even at that distance?
 
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Jan 7, 2014
87
2
8
Clarity in nods is a bizarre thing. it’s a factor of tube quality/generation and light gathering capability.

So best case scenario = great tube, giant optics, moonlight.

Worst case is shit tube, small optics, pitch black.

IR illuminator helps a lot.

Where the SIMRAD comes in is if you have an Omni IV tube model, it has 9/10 of the performance of the most advanced tube made today...and a 100mm giant assed lens. So you get PVS-30 level performance or better.

so it looks like looking through a pvs-14 at 1x, just at 10x. and that 10x brings the person sized steel target into appearing to be at 100m. easy engage range for a 14 with a laser.

It is very hard to take good pics through NV as the noise in the image moves and as such 20% or the image is noise dots, but a hundredth of a second later the noise overlay is over different places and you can clearly see what is downrange...and then it moves again. The picture captures all 20% of the noise right over the one spot and thus you can’t see very well.

To summarize, the simrad is everything a modern unit is performance wise, and a pain in the ass to mount, carry, and adjust.

I have been hearing/reading nothing but great things about SIMRADs from those who actually use them, so thank you for your input. I have an Omni 4 KN203FAB that I am in the process of getting a mount for so have not been able to look through it magnified yet. I also purchased a PVS-30 in late December that I have been using. I was shooting steel at our place last night at a measly 180 yd and it felt like I was cheating w/ that PVS-30. The great thaw is hopefully pretty much over where I live, so I should be able to get out to our farm that I have a good safe 600-700 yd shooting field that I can set targets out at varying distances. Last fall it was superbly easy w/ my 6.5 Creedmoor gas gun during the day, I am looking forward to trying it at night. This thread is a ton of fun to read through, thank you to all who have contributed stuff. I hope to be posting some good times myself soon.
 
Jan 7, 2014
87
2
8
Old mount currently, another one coming w/ the new mount as of today. I saw how you modded the dovetail on yours to engage that lug, very slick.
 
Jan 5, 2014
650
34
28
Wabaunsee, KS
Last night I took the 30 out on the 5.56(18) in front of xtr2 3-15x scope. The quarter moon was high in the sky. My "coop overwatch" involves looking thru treelines along the creek system to the North and East of where I set up and in to the Apple Orchard and the Alfalfa patch.
So far, I haven't been able to see thru the tree lines with the 30 (but can with thermal). But I was hoping that with overhead moon light the treelines would not be washed out, like they are when I try illumination. In essence overhead illumination would solve the issue.
And wha-lah ... for the first time .. I was able to see into the apple orchard and the alfalfa patch ! I could not see the cows bedded down at 450yds on the other side of the alfalfa patch, but I could see the tree line over there. I could also see the first row of trees in the apple orchard. The image seemed to be getting dimmer as I was trying to refine the focus and I looked up and saw the moon had disappeared behind clouds ... so my big illumination round in the sky fizzled out ... but it does work when it is available!
 

The King

Showercookie Monster
Sep 17, 2004
903
161
43
Denver, Colorado
the other thing of note is that both systems adjust for tightness. small screw comes out on old one, two screws come out and the mechanism is rotated on the new one.

Old mount currently, another one coming w/ the new mount as of today. I saw how you modded the dovetail on yours to engage that lug, very slick.
 
Jan 5, 2014
650
34
28
Wabaunsee, KS
TEXASLAWLAN (Todd Huey over at Lone Star Boars http://lonestarboars.com/) did a review of the new 75mm 320 boson zeus ... it has a LOT of magnification ... maybe too much for some applications ... but if you were wanting a lot of magnification this might be for you ... and at $4,800 list not too crazy ...

[video]

For me, I still want to see more action from FLIR ... want to see the new scopes actually get into dealer inventory ... not just in the hands of a select few reviewers/pro staffers/dealers ... and we have no idea when that will happen ... but looks like FLIR is actually moving forward though maybe a year later than some expected.
When will we see 640 units? The world wonders :)
 
Jan 5, 2014
650
34
28
Wabaunsee, KS
When out last night with this setup



From left to right on top ...

3x Magnifier .. similar to the one sold by Night Optics, at least from the same source, but with a MOD 1 by Pete at I2 that solidifies the mount and enables it to be shot while mounted to the Patrol.

Patrol itself

3x USGI PVS-14 magnifier screwed on the back on the rear lens ...

XTR2 3-15x scr-mil scope (with RADIUS on top)

==
Well, last night's conditions were rain and wind ... and today's conditions are rain/frozen rain and 25 MPH wind ... so solid testing of this setup will take several days. But preliminary results indicate this setup should perform about the same as the SNIPE.
The 3x reverse magnifier on the rear enables the use of magnified optics (other than 1x) behind the Patrol. Otherwise this is not possible due to the pvs-14 equivalent rear lens on the patrol.
The 3x germanium magnifier on the front cancels the effects of the reverse 3x on the rear.
You must adjust the diopter to clear up the image seen thru the day scope, but this works fine.

On 8x after focusing with the patrol focus ring, I was able to see the ear of one of my cows working on a bale at 400yds even in these bad conditions.
I ran and got the Mk3 60mm and ran that on 2x digital or 9x net magnification and the image looked equivalent to me.
That said, with the wind and rain, the image was bad for both and when conditions degrade all thermal images degrade towards a common terrible image. Hence more testing under other conditions needed to confirm comparison between The Patrol setup and the Mk3 60mm.

So, image wise, it appears we are as good or better than the SNIPE on 8x.

==
The next major area is accuracy. Can this setup hit 12 inch steel at 500yds? The SNIPE could.
==
So will be testing both of these as much as possible over the next few days ... the hope is ... this combination of attachments could give a patrol the ability to become a REAP-ish/SNIPE-ish capable unit and then go back to being a patrol if needed. This would be desirable for me.
A MOD to the threads on the USGI would also be an improvement.

I am currently cautiously optimistic that this crazy looking setup with work.
 
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The King

Showercookie Monster
Sep 17, 2004
903
161
43
Denver, Colorado
Even your duct tape/bailing wire setup is expensive LOL. This is one of the things I hate about night vision stuff.

It comes in two flavors - junk and OMG expensive.
 

RoterJager

The Red Hunter
Oct 21, 2013
477
31
28
The Frozen Tundra
Just waiting on my SIMRAD mount to arrive from mile high. Eventually I'd like to have the following set up for practice and hunting:

Helmet mounted FLIR Breach for observation
Flir PTS233 on my SBR for close in critters
SIMRAD mounted on my AX for the critters that want to stay out to distance.

I really wish I could get my hands on the Breach and PTS233 before I make the purchase for the exact reasons stated above....I want to know if they fall in the "junk" category or the "OMG Awesome" category.