POOR MAN"S M97 Trenchgun

VJJPunisher

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Apr 30, 2010
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#1
this is the 3rd installment on my broke ass bastid "poor man's" series, enjoy

Well I found an old Winchester 1897 takedown frame shotty and for dirt cheap from a local crackhead and said to myself "what do I do with this thing, cornhole it?, oh i know, i'll convert it to a representation of an ole M97 trenchgun". I got it and it had a 30 inch barrel and some shiny laquer looking wood on it.





now the first thing I does is order a repro heatshield/bayonet lug, sling swivel, and a buttstock from boyds cause the ole trenchers had more of a pistol grip that is fatter (like my junk) than what was on it. Also ordered a Solid Frame magazine plug cause the bayo lug needs the little dick on the end from a solid frames plug that the take down frame's plug doesnt have.

I get the heatshield and dipped it in vinegar to strip the bluing off. I then took the barrel to JB7032's house and he cut three grooves in the barrel to allow the cross bolts in the bayo lug to work. ending up with this..



note the long stupid barrel sticking out, never fear MUTHA FUCKAS, cut that bitch down to 20 inches



now we're getting somewhere bitches



Next, i needed to loose the shiny jizz finish on the wood, so i sanded the forend and buttstock. After that I usd my professional inletting device(drill) and inletted for the sling swivel. Then hand rubbed with Fairtrimmers Military ox oil,





still wet here


From here I went to re-assemble and couldnt figger out what keeps the mag tube from freely spinning on a trenchgun because the clamp that holds the mag tube to the barrel isnt used on a trenchgun, so what me and JB7032 came up with was to silver solder the mag plug to the bayo lug, this way the tube cant spin.(dont know how they did it on the real ones, but dont really give a flying rats ass cause im just going for the look here not the exact specs)

now you may wonder what i did with that now stripped heatshield, well ordered some perma blue and some plumb brown and after 2 weeks and 30 attempts to do a fake patina using a few walk throughs on various sites i finally aquired the look I was after.
 
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Apr 1, 2010
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#7
Re: POOR MAN"S M97 Trenchgun

Even if you didn't go to spec. It looks frigging awesome!!! Now you just need a bayonet and your ready to go. I liked the second installment as well of the "poor mans" series. Keep em coming VJJ
 

VJJPunisher

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#10
Re: POOR MAN"S M97 Trenchgun

thanks fellas. I have a solid frame sitting on my workbench looking at me right now that I am gonna do this whole thing over again on, i will post pics of that one once complete
 

Inogame

Counter of Beans
Jun 2, 2010
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#19
Re: POOR MAN"S M97 Trenchgun

I think you should go full red jakit on the 2nd one, Vjj.

Give it a bunch of rails and plastic, then dremmel your name into the side before painting it black.

Sweet.

 

VJJPunisher

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#20
Re: POOR MAN"S M97 Trenchgun

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Inogame</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think you should go full red jakit on the 2nd one, Vjj.

Give it a bunch of rails and plastic, then dremmel your name into the side before painting it black.

Sweet.


</div></div>

i like the way you think, that could be very badass
 

VJJPunisher

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#21
Re: POOR MAN"S M97 Trenchgun

requested info on build cost and parts resources-

- got the gun from an auction for $350

- stock from Boyds $59 plus tax and shipping
http://www.boydsgunstocks.com/WINCHESTER-93-AND-97-p/200-313.htm

- repro buttplate $15
http://www.gunpartscorp.com/catalog/Detail.aspx?pid=247960A&catid=7454

- repro sling swivel $18.45
http://www.gunpartscorp.com/catalog/Detail.aspx?pid=931850&catid=7454

- repro heatshield/bayo lug $111.35
http://www.gunpartscorp.com/catalog/Detail.aspx?pid=813820&catid=7454

http://www.partsforantiqueguns.com/winreparts.html

- Solid frame mag plug $12
http://www.gunpartscorp.com/catalog/Detail.aspx?pid=252150&catid=7453

- Fairtrimmer's military OX $15.99
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=42368/Product/MILITARY-oX-STOCK-OIL

-time and elbow grease $10 million dollars
 
Nov 11, 2011
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#24
Re: POOR MAN"S M97 Trenchgun

How you like the OX for the stock?
I think the next one should have a chainsaw mounted to it, because you know they would have done that in WWII if they could have. Kraut and Weenies would have filled the trenches.

Nice job, excellent creativity.
 

VJJPunisher

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#25
Re: POOR MAN"S M97 Trenchgun

man i love the OX oil, its simple to use and gives that military reddish tint without needing stains, and love how it comes out with the non reflective matte sheen to it
 

sirhrmechanic

Command Sgt. Major
Feb 23, 2010
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#31
Re: POOR MAN"S M97 Trenchgun

I kept passing on 'originals' of these back when they could be bought for cheap. Now, they're insane money and I have given up on owning an original.

But I'd build one of these in a heartbeat. Absolutely beautiful job!

Cheers,

Sirhr

(And I also assumed this would be about a Norinco... Then I saw it was from VaJayJayPunisher, and I knew it had to be worth looking at.)
 

VJJPunisher

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#33
Re: POOR MAN"S M97 Trenchgun

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Opticsspecialist</div><div class="ubbcode-body">stalking gunbroker, i want to build one of these myself</div></div>

also check your local pawn shop or gunshops, they are definatley around, and usually pretty cheap, hell for this build you dont even want a great condition one
 

VJJPunisher

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#34
Re: POOR MAN"S M97 Trenchgun

oh and just to add to the general idea of the thread, this is a pic I took of the one in the National WW1 museum in Kansas City



its built on a solid frame
 

VJJPunisher

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#36
Re: POOR MAN"S M97 Trenchgun

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CE1371</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Pretty dope set up.


Need to find me a crack head.</div></div>

pretty sure "dope" is incorrect terminology in reference to a trenchgun
 

VJJPunisher

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#38
Re: POOR MAN"S M97 Trenchgun

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: E3C3H3O3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thats just the shit, how much to build me one, LOL</div></div>

If you build it they will cum
 

VJJPunisher

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#40
Re: POOR MAN"S M97 Trenchgun

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: E3C3H3O3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thats just the shit, how much to build me one, LOL</div></div>

in seriousness, send me the parts and i shall build it fo ya
 
Sep 28, 2010
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#42
Re: POOR MAN"S M97 Trenchgun

That is awesome. I saw a solid frame at a local pawn shop a week or so ago for $200. This got me thinking I should go pick it up.
 
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#43
Re: POOR MAN"S M97 Trenchgun

this is a great looking gun.

a friend of mine came into a very abused and neglected remington model 31. so after getting it running for him he asked if I could do anything to make it more of a retro tribute. its not true to spec of the model 31 riot guns, but it was as close as i could get it without major surgery

 

VJJPunisher

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#44
Re: POOR MAN"S M97 Trenchgun

I finally got this trenchgun out today and shot it, I tell ya what, keeping the trigger pressed and working the pump it sure flings a wall of lead, alot of fun
 
#46
Re: POOR MAN"S M97 Trenchgun

Nice job, but, you neglected the fun part, going out there and slam firing the thing lol. Major thing i love about the old Winchester and the Old Ithaca I have is the lack of the trigger disconnect, bang each time you slide the pump forward if holding the trigger
 
Feb 15, 2009
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#48
Re: POOR MAN"S M97 Trenchgun

Nice! A favorite too.

Here is a reasonably good quality knock off.

http://www.amazon.com/U-S-M-1917-Enfield...ASIN=B004JEMIJE

You can now remove bees nests.

===================================

In case you did not know....


The 1918 German Protest

On 19 September 1918, the Government of Switzerland, representing German interests in the United States, presented to the U.S. Secretary of State a cablegram received by the Swiss Foreign Office containing the following diplomatic protest by the Government of Germany:

<span style="font-weight: bold">“The German Government protests against the use of shotguns by the American Army and calls attention to the fact that according to the law of war (Kriegsrecht) every [U.S.] prisoner [of war] <span style="text-decoration: underline">found to have in his possession such guns or ammunition belonging thereto forfeits his life.[/</span>b]


This protest is based upon article 23(e) of the Hague convention [sic] respecting the laws and customs of war on land. Reply by cable is required before October 1, 1918.”

The German protest was precipitated in part by the capture in the Baccarat Sector (Lorraine) of France, on 21 July 1918, of a U.S. soldier from the 307th Infantry Regiment, 154th Infantry Brigade, 77th Division, AEF,<span style="text-decoration: underline"> who was armed with a 12-gauge Winchester Model 97 repeating trench </span>(shot) gun, and a second, similarly-armed AEF soldier from the 6th Infantry Regiment, 10th Infantry Brigade, 5th Division, on 11 September 1918 in the Villers-en-Haye Sector. Each presumably possessed issue ammunition, which was the Winchester "Repeater" shell, containing nine No. 00 buckshot.

The German protest was forwarded by the Department of State to the War Department, which sought the advice of The Judge Advocate General of the Army. Brigadier General Samuel T. Ansell, Acting Judge Advocate General, responded by lengthy memorandum dated 26 September 1918. Addressing the German protest, General Ansell stated:

“Article 23(e) simply calls for comparison between the injury or suffering caused and the necessities of warfare. It is legitimate to kill the enemy and as many of them, and as quickly, as possible . . . . It is to be condemned only when it wounds, or does not kill immediately, in such a way as to produce suffering that has no reasonable relation to the killing or placing the man out of action for an effective period.

The shotgun, although an ancient weapon, finds its class or analogy, as to purpose and effect, in many modern weapons. The dispersion of the shotgun [pellets] . . . is adapted to the necessary purpose of putting out of action more than one of the charging enemy with each shot of the gun; and in this respect it is exactly analogous to shrapnel shell discharging a multitude of small [fragments] or a machine gun discharging a spray of . . . bullets.

The diameter of the bullet is scarcely greater than that of a rifle or machine gun. The weight of it is very much less. And, in both size and weight, it is less than the . . . [fragments] of a shrapnel shell . . . . Obviously a pellet the size of a .32-caliber bullet, weighing only enough to be effective at short ranges, does not exceed the limit necessary for putting a man immediately hors de combat.

The only instances even where a shotgun projectile causes more injury to any one enemy soldier than would a hit by a rifle bullet are instances where the enemy soldier has approached so close to the shooter that he is struck by more than one of the nine . . . [No. 00 buckshot projectiles] contained in the cartridge. This, like the effect of the dispersing of . . . [fragments] from a shrapnel shell, is permissible either in behalf of greater effectiveness or as an unavoidable incident of the use of small scattering projectiles for the necessary purpose of increasing [the] likelihood of killing a number of enemies.

General Ansell concluded his memorandum with the statement that "The protest is without legal merit."

Acting Secretary of War Benedict Crowell endorsed General Ansell’s memorandum of law and forwarded it to the Secretary of State that same day. Secretary of State Robert Lansing provided the following reply to the Government of Germany two days later:

”[T]he . . . provision of the Hague convention, cited in the protest, does not . . . forbid the use of this . . . weapon . . . . n view of the history of the shotgun as a weapon of warfare, and in view of the well-known effects of its present use, and in the light of a comparison of it with other weapons approved in warfare, the shotgun . . . cannot be the subject of legitimate or reasonable protest.

“The Government of the United States notes the threat of the German Government to execute every prisoner of war found to have in his possession shotguns or shotgun ammunition. Inasmuch as the weapon is lawful and may be rightfully used, its use will not be abandoned by the American Army . . .

f the German Government should carry out its threat in a single instance, it will be the right and duty of the . . . United States to make such reprisals as will best protect the American forces, and notice is hereby given of the intention of the . . . United States to make such reprisals.”

<span style="text-decoration: underline">World War I ended six weeks later, without reply by Germany to the United States response. There is no record of any subsequent capture by German forces of any U.S. soldier or marine armed with a shotgun or possessing shotgun ammunition, or of Germany carrying out its threat against the U.S. soldiers it captured earlier.</span></span>
The position of the United States as to the legality of shotguns remains unchanged from that stated in the opinion of Brigadier General Ansell and the Secretary of State’s 28 September 1918 reply to the government of Germany.

Source: OCTOBER 1997 THE ARMY LAWYER • DA-PAM 27-50-299 16
W. Hays Parks, Special Assistant for Law of War Matters. Office of The Judge Advocate General, U.S. Army, Washington, D.C.

Actually, the entire thread is worth a read.

forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=102512


Und, ve are zeeing zis....



 

sirhrmechanic

Command Sgt. Major
Feb 23, 2010
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#49
Re: POOR MAN"S M97 Trenchgun




Und, ve are zeeing zis....




The explanation for this ^^^ may be that he was tasked with shooting pigeons for the German army.

The British made extensive use of homing pigeons in WW1 to carry messages from forward areas and from behind the lines. It was a major offense in the UK to shoot any homing pigeon, which might be carrying a message.

And several birds were actually given medals for repeatedly delivering important messages. I think I read that a "War Pigeon" won the Croix de Guerre from France, but I could be mistaken on that. But pigeons were critical to front line communications.

The US Signal Corps used hundreds of pigeons.

The Germans even had a pigeon camera, which could snap a picture of the ground, hopefully capturing troop movement or trench layouts, etc. It was kind of a flop.

The response on both sides was to equip soldiers with game guns and shoot down any pigeon crossing the lines.

But these bird guns weren't used as "Trench Brooms" the way the American Model 97 was employed. The Americans made great use of Mod 97's both in close quarters (Trench clearing) and in guarding prisoners.

Whether that's the explanation behind the above photo or not... Who knows?

Cheers,

Sirhr
 
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