Please school me on QUICK wind reading (match skillz)

Grog11

New Hide Member
Feb 1, 2018
65
7
8
Anthem, Arizona
#1
Ok, so, I just had a match today and got my lunch eaten by the wind. I’m a pretty good wind reader, but I’m used to high power matches where I can lay there on a scope and get a good read and then fire a shot. Now, in PRS style matches, I have no time to do that, it’s just “you have 90 seconds. Shoot.” I’m curious to hear how everyone approaches wind reading in a match setting..... not a setting where you have time.
 
Sep 30, 2010
149
35
28
Phoenix
#2
I was out there today also. I too am curious as I got humbled a lot today. I couldn't read mirage very well with low humidity, all the gullies and draws were causing lots of weird wind changes and swirls and the brush wasn't moving very much. I had a hell of a time attempting to read the wind out there. Best I can say is if I feel it on my face its 4mph and if it is strong enough to knock ashes off my cigarette its 8mph. but nailing down direction was a bitch today. I didn't dial wind because it was 9, 6 o clock, 3, back to 9 and just tried to rely on feeling the wind today at the firing position and hope a spotter could pick up trace or I could spot my impacts for corrections. With the rolling desert hills spotting my own impacts wasn't easy.
 
May 6, 2017
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#3
Figure out what wind moves your bullet 1 MIL at 1000 yards. A 6.5 Creed shooting 140's is usually somewhere around 6 mph. Every yard line will add 0.1 MILs.

Example for MILS: 6mph wind full value, multiply yard line by 0.1....543 yards....0.1 x 5 = 0.5, Hold 0.5 MILS into the wind and let fly. If you have a doubt, then hold the edge so your error is spread over the target.

Example for MOA: Same wind, Multiply yard line by 0.3 ....543 yards....0.3 x 5 = 1.5, Hold 1.5 MOA into the wind and let fly.

If wind is double then double the call, if half then half etc.
45 degrees to you, use 3/4 of the Full value. Less than 45 degrees, use 1/2.
These aren't perfect, but they are fast and can be fudged one way or another as needed very quickly.
 
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goosed

Sergeant of the Hide
May 11, 2014
227
64
28
MN
#4
The above post highlights the gist of what I do pretty well, but due to transitioning from high power I was in the habit of picking a primary and secondary condition. Thus, I still have the need to decide on 2 conditions, so I look for the highest value and lowest likely value. Thus using the target to bracket these high and low values.

If the difference between high and low is larger than the target I favor towards the side of the predominate condition.
 
May 6, 2017
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#5
The above post highlights the gist of what I do pretty well, but due to transitioning from high power I was in the habit of picking a primary and secondary condition. Thus, I still have the need to decide on 2 conditions, so I look for the highest value and lowest likely value. Thus using the target to bracket these high and low values.

If the difference between high and low is larger than the target I favor towards the side of the predominate condition.
What I call this is " bracketing" the wind. It is definitely desirable to do this if there is enough time to observe multiple wind cycles. Determining the low wind speed and the gusty wind speeds gives you the upper and lower limits as well as your average. Frank has talked about this a few times also.

There are a few tweaks I use to the BC method, which is what this is, that can make it more accurate and flexible. I haven't seen anyone else do this part, but it has worked extremely well for me. The BC method assumes a projectile with a muzzle velocity of 2,800 fps, and an altitude of 2,000 ft ASL (28.0 Hg).

+/- 200 fps = 1 mph adjustment of your basic wind (MIL wind) for your bullet. (Ex: 3,000 fps = +1 mph, 2,600 fps = -1 mph)
+/- 2,000 ft elevation change = 0.5 mph change in basic wind. (Ex: Sea Level = -0.5 mph, 4,000ft elev. = +0.5 mph)

So, some 6.5 guy shooting his Creed at 2,000 ft with a G1 BC of 600+ @ 2750 fps - 2850 fps will have a basic wind of 6 mph. Same guy at sea level figures 5.5 mph. Same guy goes and shoots in Colorado with Frank at 6,000 ft figures it at 7 mph.

6.5 Grendel guy at 2,600 fps can subtract 1 mph from all conditions above. 6.5x284 guy shooting 3,000 fps can add 1 mph to all conditions above.
 
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Grog11

New Hide Member
Feb 1, 2018
65
7
8
Anthem, Arizona
#6
Thank you for the great responses! I really do appreciate it. This is going to help a lot getting up there getting ready to shoot, especially when I’m first out of the gate. It’s enlightening to see how others approach this sort of thing. I’ve read countless articles on wind reading and I can’t remember any of them addressing it in this way, specifically (if you know of any, please feel free to share!).
 
May 6, 2017
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#7
I keep my eyes open for new stuff as well. I haven't seen the method I described in print. The BC method is old, but I haven't seen anyone use the same tweaks I use. I have never seen the MOA adaption I described in print.

I doubt I'm the only one doing it, but no none seems to be writing about it.
 

Sheldon N

Keeper of the Secrets
Sep 24, 2014
2,343
215
63
Pacific Northwest
#9
Now, in PRS style matches, I have no time to do that, it’s just “you have 90 seconds. Shoot.” I’m curious to hear how everyone approaches wind reading in a match setting..... not a setting where you have time.
You have time during stage prep for a lot of things.

I write out a wind bracket for each yardage on my arm board. Low, middle and high wind for each target yardage, like a grid so I can easily switch columns for wind holds if the wind picks up or lets off.

I spend time on binos watching other shooters, watching trace.

Listen to what the shooters who have already shot are talking about for wind.

Incorporate what the wind has been doing on average in prior stages.

Have a super clear stage plan, be able to execute without mentally being wrapped up in the act of shooting so that you can allow more of your attention to be on what's happening around you with the wind. Tough not to get tunnel vision.

Recoil management, be able to both call where the shot broke and spot your hits and your misses, watch your own trace if possible. Use that to refine your wind call paying attention to whether the wind is picking up or letting off so you don't get "behind" on a change by just chasing the spotter.

I think probably the two biggest things are having a clear head and having clear downrange vision for what your last shot just did.
 
May 6, 2017
169
121
43
#10
Thank you for the great responses! I really do appreciate it. This is going to help a lot getting up there getting ready to shoot, especially when I’m first out of the gate. It’s enlightening to see how others approach this sort of thing. I’ve read countless articles on wind reading and I can’t remember any of them addressing it in this way, specifically (if you know of any, please feel free to share!).
One more MOA method, I used this one for quite a while, but I like the method above better, but here goes.

Find the wind that moves your bullet 5 MOA at 1,000 yards and figure 1/2 MOA added per yard line. It can be just as accurate, but the numbers used to do the math in your head quickly are more awkward. For the same bullet from the 6.5 Creed mentioned above, your basic wind would be somewhere around a 9 mph wind. It is just easier for my mind to do fractions of 6 mph rather than 9 mph.

Don't know if this helps or not, just something else for you to play around with.
 
Likes: Grog11
Jul 30, 2013
542
79
28
Lincoln, NE
#11
What I call this is " bracketing" the wind. It is definitely desirable to do this if there is enough time to observe multiple wind cycles. Determining the low wind speed and the gusty wind speeds gives you the upper and lower limits as well as your average. Frank has talked about this a few times also.

There are a few tweaks I use to the BC method, which is what this is, that can make it more accurate and flexible. I haven't seen anyone else do this part, but it has worked extremely well for me. The BC method assumes a projectile with a muzzle velocity of 2,800 fps, and an altitude of 2,000 ft ASL (28.0 Hg).

+/- 200 fps = 1 mph adjustment of your basic wind (MIL wind) for your bullet. (Ex: 3,000 fps = +1 mph, 2,600 fps = -1 mph)
+/- 2,000 ft elevation change = 0.5 mph change in basic wind. (Ex: Sea Level = -0.5 mph, 4,000ft elev. = +0.5 mph)

So, some 6.5 guy shooting his Creed at 2,000 ft with a G1 BC of 600+ @ 2750 fps - 2850 fps will have a basic wind of 6 mph. Same guy at sea level figures 5.5 mph. Same guy goes and shoots in Colorado with Frank at 6,000 ft figures it at 7 mph.

6.5 Grendel guy at 2,600 fps can subtract 1 mph from all conditions above. 6.5x284 guy shooting 3,000 fps can add 1 mph to all conditions above.
Wouldn't a bullet traveling faster use less of a hold than a slower traveling bullet?
 

Greg Langelius *

Resident Elder Fart
Aug 10, 2001
4,998
404
83
Arizona, good place for me...
#12
I cheat.

In N/M or F class; first, I get my sighters, and make a final estimated adjustment as to the zero in the prevailing wind.

Then I quickly glass the other adjacent two targets and get a quick take on where their shot markers are in relation to the X on average.

This tells me about the most common wind call mistakes my fellow shooters are making.

I adjust my hold accordingly. More often than not, it's the quickest way to getting a better wind call.

It's a lot like 'chasing the spotter', which is often a mistake. Where it may be an improvement is that it builds on the most common wind calls and may permit a quick, intuitive second guess.

But it's all just a crapshoot in a fast changing wind condition.

Remember, the other guy has the same problems as you do, but he may also be a better wind caller, too. In my case, that's usually true.

When he's wrong, knowing that can be valuable info. His spotter tells you when he is. More data can add insight to the problem at hand.

Greg
 
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May 6, 2017
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#13
Wouldn't a bullet traveling faster use less of a hold than a slower traveling bullet?
Yes, but I don't see where it was indicated otherwise. Are you just confirming?

***UPDATE*** I see what you are asking now. In the part you quoted above, I wasn't talking about adjustments to the wind hold itself, but adjustments to the basic wind (MIL wind) used to calculate the hold. That is why you add 1 mph for 200 fps faster. It takes 1 mph MORE wind to push the bullet 1 MIL at 1000 yards.
 
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Nov 5, 2013
636
231
43
#14
You have time during stage prep for a lot of things.

I write out a wind bracket for each yardage on my arm board. Low, middle and high wind for each target yardage, like a grid so I can easily switch columns for wind holds if the wind picks up or lets off.

I spend time on binos watching other shooters, watching trace.

Listen to what the shooters who have already shot are talking about for wind.

Incorporate what the wind has been doing on average in prior stages.

Have a super clear stage plan, be able to execute without mentally being wrapped up in the act of shooting so that you can allow more of your attention to be on what's happening around you with the wind. Tough not to get tunnel vision.

Recoil management, be able to both call where the shot broke and spot your hits and your misses, watch your own trace if possible. Use that to refine your wind call paying attention to whether the wind is picking up or letting off so you don't get "behind" on a change by just chasing the spotter.

I think probably the two biggest things are having a clear head and having clear downrange vision for what your last shot just did.
good info here from sheldon, its how i approach match stages as well
 
Likes: Sheldon N

TOP PREDATOR

Gunny Sergeant
Jul 19, 2008
4,596
8
38
47
SCRANTON AREA PENNSYLVANIA
#15
http://www.spc.noaa.gov/faq/tornado/beaufort.html

https://healthfully.com/calculate-speed-angle-using-flag-5856494.html

http://southtexasshooting.org/multimedia/text/mirage.html

i like using the angle with mirage method, as trees, grass, falling leaves, etc. will fall at "X" angle vs a vertical plane depending on how much wind is blowing, and give you a direction.

then take into account the "value" of the wind you are reading, aiming lower if there is mirage.

figure out on your reticle for holding for it and send it.
 
May 15, 2011
330
13
18
68
#16
Figure out what wind moves your bullet 1 MIL at 1000 yards. A 6.5 Creed shooting 140's is usually somewhere around 6 mph. Every yard line will add 0.1 MILs.

Example for MILS: 6mph wind full value, multiply yard line by 0.1....543 yards....0.1 x 5 = 0.5, Hold 0.5 MILS into the wind and let fly. If you have a doubt, then hold the edge so your error is spread over the target.

Example for MOA: Same wind, Multiply yard line by 0.3 ....543 yards....0.3 x 5 = 1.5, Hold 1.5 MOA into the wind and let fly.

If wind is double then double the call, if half then half etc.
45 degrees to you, use 3/4 of the Full value. Less than 45 degrees, use 1/2.
These aren't perfect, but they are fast and can be fudged one way or another as needed very quickly.
Same method I've used a few years. This works for all my rounds and the only thing you need to remember is the wind speed per 0.1mil; 5mph for my 223 and mph for 6.5x47.
 

goosed

Sergeant of the Hide
May 11, 2014
227
64
28
MN
#17
I write out a wind bracket for each yardage on my arm board. Low, middle and high wind for each target yardage, like a grid so I can easily switch columns for wind holds if the wind picks up or lets off.
good info here from sheldon, its how i approach match stages as well
When you do the 3 wind brackets; are you using the "high gust", "lowest let off" and average wind speed?
 
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