Opinion on Guns Safes??

Chris777

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I have a Liberty Safe Franklin series. It's a decent safe. I might be in the market for a bigger one soon. I'm looking for a much higher quality safe. Maybe steel plate door and stronger body.

Last night I came accross a company called Vault Pros that make completely custom safes to the customer specs. Anyone heard of them or know anything about them? Also, does anyone have any recommendations on brands you feels are top notch other than Grafunder?
 

C.R. Adams

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I purchase a safe as much for the fire safety as anything else, so i recommend one with a good fire rating (which by chance, usually correlates with quality safes)

One thing to consider is the dedicated foot print required for the really large safes. my currents safe is a lincoln 40. i think my next purchase will be two 25s rather than a 50+. it's just easier to find available footprints to dedicate to the 25s.

AND it takes a thief twice the effort to get into two safes rather than just one.
 

mcfred

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I've got an Amsec for security/fire protection of pistols/documents. It's a heavy little bugger, anchored to concrete and UL-Listed/tested. They're not cheap. I'm more worried about fire than theft. Locally there are only smash-and-grab junkies, so the safe is more for peace of mind than anything. Amsec makes gunsafes too.
 

Waco Kid

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I've been researching this for a while myself. Most gunsafes are kind of a joke security and fire wise. Brown Safes HD seem to be the best for the money if you want a legit safe. They are TL15 rated, concrete filled, 2k pound+ tanks! Not as fancy as an Amsec (they also make gun sized tl15, tl30 and the BF&BF2s that are between a normal gunsafe and a true safe) but they offer a lot for the coin. Sturdy seems good if you opt for the magnum steel upgrade, but their fire insulation is debatable vs the concrete mixes true safes use. Downside to a real safe is the are usually so heavy it's hard to put them anywhere other than a basement or garage. Even then there is some debate as to if a typical basement pad can hold them without long term issues. If you want to make your head really spin, check out this guy
 

Robin 03A3

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CR is right on multiple safes. Getting the largest through doorways is problematic.
I use AMSEC BF series and the quality is excellent.
These safes are very heavy and two of mine are on the ground floor lagged to concrete.
The small safe is in the bedroom with pistols, ARs, a shotgun and one bolt gun.
HTH,
Robin
 

mcfred

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Basement location is a concern too since even if the safe survives a housefire, then it'll have to survive flood too from firefighter's water hoses too.

Location upstairs could mean a heavy safe will fall through to the ground floor in a fire.

I agree buy used if you can.
 
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acudaowner

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to me they take up far too much space while providing only a tiny return on security for the money . But each to there own I would far rather place my guns on the wall and proudly display them than hide them in a metal box no body puts baby in a corner .
 

redneckbmxer24

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to me they take up far too much space while providing only a tiny return on security for the money . But each to there own I would far rather place my guns on the wall and proudly display them than hide them in a metal box no body puts baby in a corner .
Making somebody have to use their brain and tools to get in to said metal box and steal your expensive firearms is not a good return on security? Protecting them during a house fire is not a good investment? Even if you have a rider to cover them it's a PITA to get a claim and it's still not going to cover 100%, I know people who have gone through that.

Putting your guns on display for smash and grab thieves is dumb. You must not have very nice stuff, or so much money that it doesn't matter.
 

deersniper

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to me they take up far too much space while providing only a tiny return on security for the money . But each to there own I would far rather place my guns on the wall and proudly display them than hide them in a metal box no body puts baby in a corner .
Lol at putting $100k+ on the wall so the local crack heads etc can steal them all

Unless you’re talking about a safe room then awesome, do want
 

mcfred

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If you don't care about theft/fire, then you should care about your idiot children shooting you or themselves.

"Won't someone Puhlease think of the children!?!"
 

deersniper

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If you don't care about theft/fire, then you should care about your idiot children shooting you or themselves.

"Won't someone Puhlease think of the children!?!"
Or exposing yourself to civil or criminal liability when someone steals them and shoots someone with them. With a juror box full of idiots and soccer moms.

“Known or should have known”
 

Darkside-Six

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I have a Big Horn safe which is made by Rhino safes. It fits what I needed at the time out of it. Fire rating is the #1 concern I have. It’s very solid and would take a thief a while to try and get in but I’m running out of space so I’m looking at a larger option as opposed to having 2 safes.
Sportsman’s steel safes is what I’ve been looking at and seem to have everything I need. Good security, large capacity as we as long fore protection.
 

Jack Master

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I have a Liberty Safe Franklin series. It's a decent safe. I might be in the market for a bigger one soon. I'm looking for a much higher quality safe. Maybe steel plate door and stronger body.

Last night I came accross a company called Vault Pros that make completely custom safes to the customer specs. Anyone heard of them or know anything about them? Also, does anyone have any recommendations on brands you feels are top notch other than Grafunder?
I did quite a but of research on safes a few year back (8ish). Here are the best pieces of information I found.

Here is a good article from 6mmBR website about safes. At the bottom there is a pretty extensive list of safe makers. I would choose the Fort Knox is I bought new.
https://www.6mmbr.com/gunsafes.html#fireproof

Outdoor Life article with safe manufacturers
https://www.outdoorlife.com/articles/gear/2007/09/safe-bets/

Good Article here as well.
https://gunsafereviewsguy.com/articles/myths-about-gun-safe-theft-protection/
https://gunsafereviewsguy.com/buyers-guide/best-gun-safe/
 

diablodawg

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Very happy with my Sturdy. Moving it is a pain, but easier being able to take the door off. I would buy another if I probably wasn't in the market for a vault door first,
 

BufordTJustice

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When in the market for a safe, you might want to research reputable used safe dealers as well. Some of the old Chubb, Chatwood-Milner are excellent. Weight can be an issue as well as building out the inside to suit your needs. I believe Brown, Graffunder and Amsec are quality newer safes.
 

Strykervet

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Walls of text go unnoticed so PM me if you want more.

TL15 or TL30 on CL, TL15x6 or TL30x6 is better because x6 indicates all sides are same strength as door essentially. You can't do the sardine can peel on one of these. Which is, btw, the easiest way into an RSC which has a 5 min. rating against short hand tools and one attacker only. TL15 will withstand 15min. attack 2 guys 200lb. w/long handled tools and power tools of their choice. TL30 is 30 min.

All of them usually have a better fire rating than a typical gunsafe or RSC, but if you get an older one or a used one you may want to go buy a palusol (sp?) seal that goes around the door. It's just a thick "gasket" thing that expands if it gets hot. Older ones didn't come with 'em.

Look on CL, be patient. One time an 8' Mosler bank vault from an old bank showed up and it was $4k --but I didn't have a place to put it (and it would've cost at least $4k to move that!). Every now and again one will pop up on there that fits the bill, but most are smaller 4.5 or 5 foot TL15's or TL30's (great if you need a second one for parts, handguns, SBR's, whatever, but you can't stand anything up in one that's longer than a collapsed M4 IIRC). Those are most common BTW.

Look for a large safe dealer, they sell volume and have scratch and dent new stuff, used stuff, you name it. All sizes and they know how to move 'em. Remember that these types of safes start around 1200lbs for a "small" TL30 and more like 6000lbs. for full size TL30x6. I'd go for the TL30x6 if you can, vet discount, scratch dent, used --pour it on and negotiate their bottom price. A lot of times they get the used ones for a song, or get 'em broken or locked and repair them.

IMO, Original is the brand you want. There may be better but I don't know of it short of a Diebold or Mosler. You can get 'em with dual locks, combo and key (I'd go dial combo and stay away from the keypad shit were I you!). The TL30x6, their biggest one, is the one that's on par size-wise with most gunsafes. Unless you're collection is massive or takes up a ton of space, this will hold it all.

Best way to go IMO is to get the big TL30x6 from large dealer for a good price (used, scratch and dent, whatever) and a smaller used basic TL30 or TL15 on CL.

Shit, still went on longer than I intended. Sorry.
 
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Ragnar Danneksjöld

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I have an old Fort Knox which does it’s job well. I have been looking for a few months for another, and like Browns and AmSec. The units I am looking for would be a step up in security from my current safe.

I bought mine used and recommend that if you are on a budget.
 

Elnino31

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Just a thought on fires.

Any decent size fire has the possibility of landing your heavy safe in the basement or crawl. Which will be filled with water.

Insurance will be your best friend in the case of a fire vs the safes fire rating.
 
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Strykervet

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Wait and buy a used Tl30.

And get insurance. I hear eastern is good
Is there a better insurance than USAA? Because for firearms insurance, it's an arm and a leg. The basic insurance covers the reloading gear and shit I can't lock up, but that's it.

Oh, and for securing ammo? Those Stackon lockers are hard to beat. You can stack many cans in one.

Very happy with my Sturdy. Moving it is a pain, but easier being able to take the door off. I would buy another if I probably wasn't in the market for a vault door first,
Moving is a motherfucker, trust me, and something to definitely be kept in consideration if you plan on doing it in the next five years. You may get that 6000lb. TL30x6 delivered and installed for free, but it's gonna cost around at least $2000 to move it and that's if it's fairly close!

Basement location is a concern too since even if the safe survives a housefire, then it'll have to survive flood too from firefighter's water hoses too.

Location upstairs could mean a heavy safe will fall through to the ground floor in a fire.

I agree buy used if you can.
Needs to be on concrete, preferably on ground level. If you expect a flood, seal the door with silicone before you bail. You can peel it off later. Whether you empty it first or not, it'll keep the safe from being damaged. If it's a fire, on ground level with a large door and palusol seal, I doubt any water could make it in the door. They sit up off the ground more than a few inches anyway.

Speaking of fire, used and older TL's probably won't come with a palusol (sp?) seal. I'd advise you go buy one of these if it's your main safe. It's just a gasket that goes around the doorway that expands if it gets hot. Really helps with completing the fire rating because walls on these are better than the best RSC's usually.
 

Strykervet

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to me they take up far too much space while providing only a tiny return on security for the money . But each to there own I would far rather place my guns on the wall and proudly display them than hide them in a metal box no body puts baby in a corner .
THEIS --can you PM me this guy's home address and phone number please, along with all the other forums he frequents?

(Seriously, please don't).

See dude, it's that easy. I can probably do it but there are some folks that can DEFINITELY do it and fast. Your posts, whether here or somewhere else, will probably indicate whether or not it's worth it. But hey, to your local meth head, ANY intel like that may be worth it...

That saying about spending as much on glass as you do the rifle? Well, you should spend as much on a safe as your most expensive weapon's system (or say 10% of your total collection if it's all smaller shit).
 
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deersniper

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THEIS --can you PM me this guy's home address and phone number please, along with all the other forums he frequents?

(Seriously, please don't).

See dude, it's that easy. I can probably do it but there are some folks that can DEFINITELY do it and fast. Your posts, whether here or somewhere else, will probably indicate whether or not it's worth it. But hey, to your local meth head, ANY intel like that may be worth it...

That saying about spending as much on glass as you do the rifle? Well, you should spend as much on a safe as your most expensive weapon's system (or say 10% of your total collection if it's all smaller shit).
Doesn’t have to be internet either. Friends of friends, plumbers/electricians/ , your kids/wives/buddies mouth. House parties etc. pretty soon people know what you have and when you aren’t home.


I read good things about eastern and they cover your stuff while in transit etc iiirc. $250-500/year covers a lot of $$$ in clips ons/scopes/firearms/ammo etc
 

1moaoff

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This may sound simplistic but I'll make this short.

Vault - if you can ever imagine it being useful just do it. Start thinking long term and options for what goes into it.

Huge safe- I have one of the largest amsec crazy overbuilt ones you can get. Theres reasons why I chose that model. But I have smaller ones through out the house. I have had a vault in the past and wish we hadn't moved. Multiple safes give you options.

Fire rating- probably more important than theft prevention.... More is always better.

Used vs new- call around and post and add.... around BIG safes can go cheap if your patient.

Investment- I can have 100k in stuff in a large safe. That safe is "FOREVER" going to be around. But I always have a plan for the next ones or when house additions contain a vault. Think long term. Or decide what you need for a few years and would upgrading be ok or just adding another. Remember used ones go cheap! Amsec will hold value better than alot of them tbough.

Call a local safe company or 2 and talk to them.... then take a break from thinking about it.
 

kthomas

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I'm keeping my eye on this, I'm in the market for a new gun safe, but the choices are a bit overwhelming. Need something to house at least 5 precision rifles with scopes, a few ar15's and other odds and ends.

I see a few people in here are happy with Bighorn safes, which Costco happens to sell (easy shipping and CS).

The Amsec ones looking really nice, certainly has a price to match. I'm hoping to strike a balance between security, fire rating, capacity and budget. As much as I would love an Amsec, I think it's out of the budget for now.

Looking forward to seeing what others have and recommend.
 

TSpork

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I have a Liberty Safe Franklin series. It's a decent safe. I might be in the market for a bigger one soon. I'm looking for a much higher quality safe. Maybe steel plate door and stronger body.

Last night I came accross a company called Vault Pros that make completely custom safes to the customer specs. Anyone heard of them or know anything about them? Also, does anyone have any recommendations on brands you feels are top notch other than Grafunder?
Funny, I was thinking about going over there earlier today. My friend just bought a safe from there today. Tony is really good friend of one of my friend’s dads, so he always became the default when getting safes since we’d all always be hanging out at parties. Great to see his name is starting to get out there. His shop is about 5 minutes from where I live
 

Strykervet

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I'm keeping my eye on this, I'm in the market for a new gun safe, but the choices are a bit overwhelming. Need something to house at least 5 precision rifles with scopes, a few ar15's and other odds and ends.

I see a few people in here are happy with Bighorn safes, which Costco happens to sell (easy shipping and CS).

The Amsec ones looking really nice, certainly has a price to match. I'm hoping to strike a balance between security, fire rating, capacity and budget. As much as I would love an Amsec, I think it's out of the budget for now.

Looking forward to seeing what others have and recommend.
Then you've called all the big places in your area and no scratch dents, used ones or deals? Scoured CL? Did this for a couple months at least?

I seriously doubt an Amsec is out of your reach, especially a standard TL15 or TL30 which will still be WAY better than what you're looking at. You just gotta be vigilant and patient, they do and WILL turn up. And find that biggest dealer in your area, the walmart of safes, that's who you need to be dealing with if not CL.
 
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Strykervet

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Just be patient and vigilant, it will pay off. These come up all the time because of the trade ins for x6's so these places can keep their insurance.

Hard to go wrong with a scratch and dent or a used one, they last forever and it is a good investment.

Before you get an RSC though, go watch a video of a guy breaking into one using the sardine can peel method. It'll shock you.

And good luck, seriously, I hope you come out on top here.
 

1moaoff

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I'm keeping my eye on this, I'm in the market for a new gun safe, but the choices are a bit overwhelming. Need something to house at least 5 precision rifles with scopes, a few ar15's and other odds and ends.

I see a few people in here are happy with Bighorn safes, which Costco happens to sell (easy shipping and CS).

The Amsec ones looking really nice, certainly has a price to match. I'm hoping to strike a balance between security, fire rating, capacity and budget. As much as I would love an Amsec, I think it's out of the budget for now.

Looking forward to seeing what others have and recommend.

You will likely need a safe bigger than you think for precision rifles and ARs. Assume capacity is less than half of advertised.
 
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chrome

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Going down this road myself, need ANOTHER safe. The two brands that continue to be mentioned are AMSEC and Sturdy. AMSEC is more popular and easier to get hands on, while Sturdy is more "boutique" and not as available to be hands on. Cursory research yields both are constructed in a superior way when compared to Liberty, with a slight hat tip to Sturdy.

Here are some good threads with legacy information I found personally helpful:

 
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JOS

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I bought a used Israeli safe with 1 1/2" thick solid steel door and 1" solid steel sides. VERY HEAVY and expensive to move. I think it was more than worth it.
 
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salks

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My house was broken into last February. I live in somewhat of a country setting on 5 acers. I have a few neighbors maybe 200 yards in either direction. They broke in the back door parked where it would be hard for someone to see them. Nobody was home at the time they stole the tv and the wife's jewelry boxes anything they could grab quick. I'm very happy I had a gun safe. I only had it for three months. Unless you have a rider on expensive items in your home they may not be covered because there is a limit to what insurance will pay for. I wish more of the jewelry had been in the safe but... The police were able to track some of our stuff down which we were able to identify and had to purchase back from the pawn shop for the amount the pawn shop gave the scum bag. pennies on the dollar but still. Police kinda knew who the guy was but never caught him yet. They didn't even try to get in the safe they are mostly interested in grabing stuff quick and getting out. I keep all my guns locked up, and jewelry. Have an alarm and cameras. I just have a liberty colonial but most crocks aren't gonna take the time for anything like that.
 

JOS

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My house was broken into last February. I live in somewhat of a country setting on 5 acers. I have a few neighbors maybe 200 yards in either direction. They broke in the back door parked where it would be hard for someone to see them. Nobody was home at the time they stole the tv and the wife's jewelry boxes anything they could grab quick. I'm very happy I had a gun safe. I only had it for three months. Unless you have a rider on expensive items in your home they may not be covered because there is a limit to what insurance will pay for. I wish more of the jewelry had been in the safe but... The police were able to track some of our stuff down which we were able to identify and had to purchase back from the pawn shop for the amount the pawn shop gave the scum bag. pennies on the dollar but still. Police kinda knew who the guy was but never caught him yet. They didn't even try to get in the safe they are mostly interested in grabing stuff quick and getting out. I keep all my guns locked up, and jewelry. Have an alarm and cameras. I just have a liberty colonial but most crocks aren't gonna take the time for anything like that.
I am glad it worked for you. Something is way better than nothing. I had two workmates that lost $10000s from theft. Both had safes. It seems there was someone with knowledge of the contents and the loot was worth the thieves time and effort. I think most home theft is kids. Fast and easy. It took me lots of money and time to get what I have. I can not afford to do it again. I am retired with less income. Theft in my area is high. I am glad I chose what I chose. Wishing you all the best. Hope your misses are in the black.
 
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candyx

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Reasonably priced and easy to move around and can be used with any combination lock .

61155BL-U_f.jpg
 
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BurnOut

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Some of the best reading on gun safes and security I have found: gunsafereviewsguy.com

Other than that, a few things to keep in mind (in no particular order):

  • Obscurity is your friend; as others have mentioned, service people, party guests, etc... will inevitably come to your house, and may take pics. Not even necessarily of your safe, but it may be in the background. There's no telling who may see those pics. I said all of that to say this... put your safe in an out-of-the-way location. A back bedroom, a closet, or somewhere else that you can kind of keep an eye on who sees it.
  • Anchor it to the ground/floor; I don't care how heavy it is.
  • The door is the most heavily fortified part of the safe; bad guys know this, and will often attack the body of the safe. Anything that will restrict access to the back/sides of the safe will only make it more difficult to attack the safe at its weakest point(s).
  • Don't keep ammo/powder in your safe. Not only is real estate inside the safe VERY expensive, there's a word for explosive/flammable substances inside of a tightly sealed container; that word is bomb. It's unlikely, but if there is a fire and the inside of the safe gets hot enough to start cooking off powder/ammo, it could harm the folks trying to keep your house from burning down.
  • Don't concern yourself with internal vs. external hinges. Commercial ("true") safes are all externally hinged, and if a safe manufacturer considers the hinges as part of the security of their safe, it's a piece of shit that you don't want. The hinges are there to carry the weight of the door ONLY, and the design of the safe should have some other method of securing the hinge side of the door (dead bolts, live bolts, etc...).
  • Fancy paint looks pretty, but that's all it does. From a security perspective, you're far better off with something that looks ugly but is more heavily built vs. something that looks pretty but will fold like a cheap lawn chair if attacked. That said, spouses must be appeased... so do what you must in this regard, but understand that it's easy to spend several hundred dollars on aesthetics alone.
  • If you go with an electronic lock, change the battery proactively. I like to change e-lock batteries at the same time I change smoke detector batteries... which is every time we transition to/from daylight savings time.
  • Buy bigger than you think you need; they tend to shrink once you start putting your goodies in them.
  • Select a place in your home where you want to place it, and take measurements. Don't forget to include baseboards in measurements.
  • If you can, place it against a load-bearing wall and/or along the outside wall of your home. In a fire, it's usually the middle of the home/large spans that fall. Load-bearing walls tend to be the last to go. Protip: physical damage (from falling debris) is often responsible for safe failures in house fires, as the frame of the safe gets tweaked and the seal between the door and the body of the safe can get compromised and let in heat (and water from the firefighters).
  • Don't worry about EMP-proofing anything. Generally speaking, electronics have to be active at the time of an EMP event in order to sustain damage. The odds of you being in the middle of typing in your combo when the the theoretical EMP event occurs are pretty slim indeed.
  • Lights inside the safe are a handy thing.
  • You'll end up keeping all kinds of shit in the safe that you may not be planning on right now. Passports, checkbooks, emergency credit cards, wills, tax documents, etc... All that shit takes up space.
Those are just SOME of the things to keep in mind when shopping for a security solution. The important thing is to think like a bad guy, not a bargain shopper trying to get out of the whole deal as inexpensively as you can.
 

cattleman99

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Nothing like a concrete room with a reinforced steel door. I’ve got a gun cabinet/locker in the office for my “decoy” firearms. The hope is they’ll take what’s in there rather than keep looking for more
 

10ring1

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My house was broken into last February. I live in somewhat of a country setting on 5 acers. I have a few neighbors maybe 200 yards in either direction. They broke in the back door parked where it would be hard for someone to see them. Nobody was home at the time they stole the tv and the wife's jewelry boxes anything they could grab quick. I'm very happy I had a gun safe. I only had it for three months. Unless you have a rider on expensive items in your home they may not be covered because there is a limit to what insurance will pay for. I wish more of the jewelry had been in the safe but... The police were able to track some of our stuff down which we were able to identify and had to purchase back from the pawn shop for the amount the pawn shop gave the scum bag. pennies on the dollar but still. Police kinda knew who the guy was but never caught him yet. They didn't even try to get in the safe they are mostly interested in grabing stuff quick and getting out. I keep all my guns locked up, and jewelry. Have an alarm and cameras. I just have a liberty colonial but most crocks aren't gonna take the time for anything like that.
U had to pay to get your stolen stuff back from the pawn shop?
 
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aaron_presser

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I totally agree with the need for safes it vaults for theft and security but any decent house fire will ruin most firearms inside from heat, smoke, and water. Been on a vfd for several years and have seen several safes afterwards, not very pretty. Mainly wanting to post to say get insurance and a safe for the best protection.
 
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hafejd30

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Didn’t read all the above posts, but the one directly above mine I will 2nd.

Also a firefighter and can tell you if you have a serious fire, your safe, along with everything else you own will be in the basement which is now a charred swimming pool containing your entire life. Not pretty.

Your safe will most likely be laying on its side, submerged in water, for a decent amount of time until you get a crane or log truck etc to retrieve it

Couple things I’d suggest:

1) get insurance on your firearms

2) Get the safe you want the first time. Your friends that help you move it will all be busy when you buy the 2nd one
 
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salks

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U had to pay to get your stolen stuff back from the pawn shop?
Yes what the pawn shop paid for the items not what they would sell them for and it was pennies on the dollar. They say if he ever gets caught he would have to reoperations but i'm not holding my breath. There was a set of diamond earing that I paid like $5000.00 for got them back for like $600.00. These guys have no idea what they really have it's just quick cash to them. Sad part is the wife doesn't even want to wear the stuff we got back.
 

ToddM

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I think there are always some good themes with safe topics.

1) buy more safe space than you think you need, two medium safes can be easier to move/work with than 1 giant one, I'd add that always buy the 72" version over the 60", it's not much more $, it's more extra space than you think, and it really does not impact where you can fit/move it.

2) bolt them down! It's really easy for two big guys and the right dolly to take even an 800lb safe out of your house and into a pickup in minutes.

3) There are a host of big/heavy bank/valuable type safes available that provide more fire/security that are not "gun" safes that provide some more security and if you shop used may not cost that much more (until you have to move it).

4) If it's your last house and you are building a vault room might be worth it.

5) A safe is not a replacement for insurance, there are plenty of ways for your guns to get damaged in a safe, fire/water/structural collapse, etc.

6) You definitely want a camera/alarm system. If someone does break in, you don't want them to think they have hours to work.

7) You are much better off with your guns/gun safe where someone can't find/see it.

Beyond that I think you have to weigh what is important to you. To me as long as you get a pretty good safe, say a couple grand and don't advertise it, you are probably fine against 99% of break ins of which most of us will never have anyway. If someone knows you have tons of guns and safes, you plaster your collection and vacation status on facebook, and have time they can roll in a plasma cutter or portable saw and get into it. Doesn't really matter if you are gone for the day at work or weekend if it takes them 5 minutes or 50 minutes at that point.

I asked one of the oldest safe shops in Vegas and an NLVPD Detective (break ins are rampant in Vegas) when I bought mine how many heavy gun safes they have seen ripped into like there are a few videos these days demonstrating and they said they had never seen that done, in most cases the safe was left alone, or it was a $200 100lb locker they just carried out or broke into with a screwdriver. In the couple of other cases it was clear someone was targeting the owner/home for the guns/safe and came prepared and they rolled it out of the house. Though I'd imagine the rate of criminals pealing them open will get higher, now that safe companies have put out youtube videos teaching criminals how to do it so easily.
 
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Big Bo

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Get a safe made with 1/4" or thicker STEEL walls, top, and bottom. 10g is a joke. The more steel the better.