One .308 to rule them all

theLBC

Shiftless
Belligerents
Minuteman
Jun 21, 2019
1,213
1,597
119
PMM sells smaller jets for the Scar if you are concerned about over gassing with a suppressor.
they are cheap so you can test until you have the size that is just enough to lock back on empty mags.
additionally, softer recoil plates are also available now for the recoil sensitive types.

costs <$20 to replace the gas jet and plate.
 
Last edited:

The DFC

Gunny Sergeant
Belligerents
Minuteman
Apr 14, 2018
725
527
99
White Bear Lake, MN
It can be done... this isn't a 1/2" group.. instead it is 10rds from a PA10 FN CHF CL barreled OEM upper , 100yds benched scoped and tuned by me.
Hornady AG 155gr... to me that shows some good potential.
View attachment 7197614

IMO, you can build a great Large Frame AR that can shoot damned well.

Criterion 18" barrel on a PSA upper, Lantac brake , Adj. GB .. upper receiver face lapped, and barrel Loctited in place.

5rds, 168gr FGMM, 100yds, scoped , benched... etc.
View attachment 7197617


View attachment 7197629

Of course a bunch of quality work and components can make any rifle shoot good or better. Those are really nice goups. However-the dude claimed a PSA shot 3/4" groups at 200yds with regularity. That's like high end bolt gun good.
 

Thunderhorse

Sergeant of the Hide
Belligerents
Minuteman
Jan 31, 2018
258
100
49
Central MO
Personally, if you are looking at spending SR-25 or SCAR 20 money I'd wait a few more months and get a KRG Fox-42 when they come out, which, on a precision shooting forum, I am surprised I haven't seen anything about.

Regarding the SCAR, let me get this straight: it has a suppressed and unsuppressed setting on the gas regulator, but will crack the carrier if you shoot it suppressed...on the suppressed setting?
 
  • Like
Reactions: ddavis

USMC_JA

Private
Belligerents
Dec 13, 2010
141
95
34
46
Personally, if you are looking at spending SR-25 or SCAR 20 money I'd wait a few more months and get a KRG Fox-42 when they come out, which, on a precision shooting forum, I am surprised I haven't seen anything about.

Regarding the SCAR, let me get this straight: it has a suppressed and unsuppressed setting on the gas regulator, but will crack the carrier if you shoot it suppressed...on the suppressed setting?
The entire suppressed thing has me holding off on the SCAR platform. If not, I'd take the SCAR-17 as likely the best "battle-rifle" 7.62 on the planet. But I'd look elsewhere if I want something for precision.
 

pnorris

Sergeant
Belligerents
Mar 3, 2012
108
1
22
49
Which ones have been fielded by the military, refined over the years, and have become dependable and accurate guns. That is easy, the LMT, the SCAR and the Knights. There are the three to choose from if you want a well engineered and refined weapon system.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jsp556

Jsp556

Private
Belligerents
Minuteman
Feb 27, 2017
226
224
49
Which ones have been fielded by the military, refined over the years, and have become dependable and accurate guns. That is easy, the LMT, the SCAR and the Knights. There are the three to choose from if you want a well engineered and refined weapon system.
Agree. Nothing like taxpayers paying to shake the bugs out of a system. While all the above were good from the start, just the sheer amount of end user data available for these mfgs. to improve their platform is mind boggling. You could add HK and Colt/Diemaco to that list.
 
Last edited:

theLBC

Shiftless
Belligerents
Minuteman
Jun 21, 2019
1,213
1,597
119
Personally, if you are looking at spending SR-25 or SCAR 20 money I'd wait a few more months and get a KRG Fox-42 when they come out, which, on a precision shooting forum, I am surprised I haven't seen anything about.

Regarding the SCAR, let me get this straight: it has a suppressed and unsuppressed setting on the gas regulator, but will crack the carrier if you shoot it suppressed...on the suppressed setting?
i have heard of this. we don't know if the gas was always on the correct setting.
more often, there were potentials for misfeeds because it was basically overgassed and running too fast on full auto with a can.
it seems that by 2010, they had reduced the size of the gas jet to 1.5mm and friends i know that were deployed in the congo, afg, or irq had no issues with them. many owners that don't care about reliability will run 1.4 or even 1.35.
 

theLBC

Shiftless
Belligerents
Minuteman
Jun 21, 2019
1,213
1,597
119
Something is wrong with a weapons system that can’t run reliably suppressed/unsuppressed without modifications.
some people think it was likely they ran on the wrong gas setting, since the suppressed setting can fail to lock back on light ammo without a can with the stock jet.
except for a range toy only, i would not want to rely on a gun that barely cycles or locks back
meh, i'm not running full auto suppressed so it is a problem i'll never have anyway.
 

GUNNER10

Sergeant
Belligerents
Mar 10, 2005
348
64
34
39
md
Personally, if you are looking at spending SR-25 or SCAR 20 money I'd wait a few more months and get a KRG Fox-42 when they come out, which, on a precision shooting forum, I am surprised I haven't seen anything about.

Regarding the SCAR, let me get this straight: it has a suppressed and unsuppressed setting on the gas regulator, but will crack the carrier if you shoot it suppressed...on the suppressed setting?
eddited:

So the civilian guns appear to have a suppressed setting but with that being said, FN does state the using a can will void the weapons warranty. So at this point. I don't

The Mil guns don't really have the same issues as the civilian guns for a couple reasons, I think that when the Scar was being developed they did so using Lake City M80 which is not exactly hot ammo and the cans that they have been using are generally lower back pressure so they have minimal impact on the system.

I think what starts to happen with the civilian guns is when they start being used with a wider range of both ammunition and silencers.

There are banaids/fixes involving the gas jets but its mostly trial and an error based on what ammo/silencer combo

I like FN, and like the idea of the scar but at this point even 10 years later, the scar feels... lacking
 
Last edited:

GUNNER10

Sergeant
Belligerents
Mar 10, 2005
348
64
34
39
md
some people think it was likely they ran on the wrong gas setting, since the suppressed setting can fail to lock back on light ammo without a can with the stock jet.
except for a range toy only, i would not want to rely on a gun that barely cycles or locks back
meh, i'm not running full auto suppressed so it is a problem i'll never have anyway.
I think this makes sense but kind of personifies the problem of the Scar. Tens years after release, and there is still a debate into what the hell is going on with the system.

I really like the scar, but its price range, I just feel that it is worth the premium to just go with a SR25. I think that if the scar was around 2 grand, I would be so critical, but at over 3 grand, it really should be a little more refined at this point
 

RyanScott

Sergeant
Belligerents
Oct 14, 2005
1,553
636
219
33
Houston
The cans they came with were high enough backpressure that FN drilled holes in the AAC cans blast chambers and then developed their own cans to replace them.
 

GUNNER10

Sergeant
Belligerents
Mar 10, 2005
348
64
34
39
md
The cans they came with were high enough backpressure that FN drilled holes in the AAC cans blast chambers and then developed their own cans to replace them.
That is true. I forgot about those and was thinking about the SF's and later FN cans.
 

Aggie1819

Private
Minuteman
Oct 19, 2019
52
20
12
F4 Defense's SF10, smallframe AR10s are the tits.
That is near perfect..... I had stated piecing one together. It looks pretty comparable.

 
  • Like
Reactions: LeadZeke

Docsherm

Guns Up!
Belligerents
Minuteman
May 6, 2019
277
159
49
DFW Texas
The cans they came with were high enough backpressure that FN drilled holes in the AAC cans blast chambers and then developed their own cans to replace them.
Uhhhhhh WTF are you talking about?

Do you know what can USASOC used when the SCAR was being tested?

You will not like the answer.........
 

Luke

Sergeant
Belligerents
May 29, 2002
931
124
49
Colorado
I realize it falls outside the scope of your original question, but have you considered an AR-15 shooting heavy bullets like the 75gr-77gr Mk262 clones?

I owned a shorty AR-10 once, and will never go back down that road again. I wanted the AR-10 to work - I wanted the ultimate do-all rifle, and I did my best to make the perfect package, but I finally just gave up. They're just...awkward. They're heavy for their size, parts are more expensive and there's less options, they're harder to get running as smoothly and accurately as an AR-15, clearing malfunctions is twice as difficult with the longer charging handle and heavier buffer spring, with shorter barrels the muzzle blast can be significant, follow-up shots are slower, etc.

A small/light AR-15 is sooo much more convenient. Parts are cheap and easy to come by, follow up shots are fast, loaded mags are lighter, they're reliable and easy to run, modern quality builds are pretty dang accurate right out of the box, etc etc

I know guys have been handloading the heavier .223/5.56 ammo for a long time, but in the past few years there has been more and more factory ammo being loaded with 75gr-77gr ammo and in my opinion it's a fantastic combo. Long range accuracy from short barreled AR's is easier than ever, and the terminal ballistics are nothing to be scoffed at.

Just something different to consider :)
 

Aggie1819

Private
Minuteman
Oct 19, 2019
52
20
12
I realize it falls outside the scope of your original question, but have you considered an AR-15 shooting heavy bullets like the 75gr-77gr Mk262 clones?

I owned a shorty AR-10 once, and will never go back down that road again. I wanted the AR-10 to work - I wanted the ultimate do-all rifle, and I did my best to make the perfect package, but I finally just gave up. They're just...awkward. They're heavy for their size, parts are more expensive and there's less options, they're harder to get running as smoothly and accurately as an AR-15, clearing malfunctions is twice as difficult with the longer charging handle and heavier buffer spring, with shorter barrels the muzzle blast can be significant, follow-up shots are slower, etc.

A small/light AR-15 is sooo much more convenient. Parts are cheap and easy to come by, follow up shots are fast, loaded mags are lighter, they're reliable and easy to run, modern quality builds are pretty dang accurate right out of the box, etc etc

I know guys have been handloading the heavier .223/5.56 ammo for a long time, but in the past few years there has been more and more factory ammo being loaded with 75gr-77gr ammo and in my opinion it's a fantastic combo. Long range accuracy from short barreled AR's is easier than ever, and the terminal ballistics are nothing to be scoffed at.

Just something different to consider :)
Already own 4 AR-15s. 9mm, 2 in 556/223 and one in 300BLK. The 223 does not stop a pig unless you hit it in the head. It isn't fun trailing pigs in the mud. I have killed dozens of pigs with both.

308 and they drop. I have a 308 bolt action but want a the semi auto.
 
Last edited:

theLBC

Shiftless
Belligerents
Minuteman
Jun 21, 2019
1,213
1,597
119
I realize it falls outside the scope of your original question, but have you considered an AR-15 shooting heavy bullets like the 75gr-77gr Mk262 clones?

I owned a shorty AR-10 once, and will never go back down that road again. I wanted the AR-10 to work - I wanted the ultimate do-all rifle, and I did my best to make the perfect package, but I finally just gave up. They're just...awkward. They're heavy for their size, parts are more expensive and there's less options, they're harder to get running as smoothly and accurately as an AR-15, clearing malfunctions is twice as difficult with the longer charging handle and heavier buffer spring, with shorter barrels the muzzle blast can be significant, follow-up shots are slower, etc.

A small/light AR-15 is sooo much more convenient. Parts are cheap and easy to come by, follow up shots are fast, loaded mags are lighter, they're reliable and easy to run, modern quality builds are pretty dang accurate right out of the box, etc etc

I know guys have been handloading the heavier .223/5.56 ammo for a long time, but in the past few years there has been more and more factory ammo being loaded with 75gr-77gr ammo and in my opinion it's a fantastic combo. Long range accuracy from short barreled AR's is easier than ever, and the terminal ballistics are nothing to be scoffed at.

Just something different to consider :)
you should try a scar 20s.
shoots great right out of the box.
i have zero failures of any kind in 900+ rounds.
sub moa
so easy to shoot, even i hit a 12" square from 600+ on the first try.
low recoil and easy follow ups (with a surefire brake).
vastly different from the 17S, even though it is very similar.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Aggie1819

alpine44

Sergeant
Belligerents
Mar 23, 2010
619
343
69
North Carolina
Exactly. If I wanted a bolt, I’d be in that forum.
I can’t get more than 1 pig with a bolt gun, 2 at most. Throw in semi auto and I have a better chance to get 3-5 shots off. With 556 there is not the stopping power unless you hit in the head. Very rarely drop with that small of a round.
Pigs remind me of the H&K 770 I used for boar hunting in Germany. Old-school steel and wood craftsmanship. Very accurate (Jerry used softpoints in the linked video) with a nice trigger (unlike the G3 clones). Will do anything you want and fly under the radar of any gun grabbing state for now. You can even take it through Canada if you want to drive to AK. Typically under $1700 on gunjoker. Downside: hard on brass like all roller delayed H&K actions and no mounting options for gadgets other than a scope.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Aggie1819

Aggie1819

Private
Minuteman
Oct 19, 2019
52
20
12
Pigs remind me of the H&K 770 I used for boar hunting in Germany. Old-school steel and wood. Very accurate with a nice trigger (unlike the G3). Will do anything you want and fly under the radar of any gun grabbing state (for now). You can even take it through Canada if you want to drive to AK. Downside: hard on brass like all roller delayed H&K actions.
Nice! I have never seen that before
 

RyanScott

Sergeant
Belligerents
Oct 14, 2005
1,553
636
219
33
Houston
Gross. But probably low backpressure. The new KAC cans are pretty sweet. Two or three generations past the old stuff.
 
  • Like
Reactions: theLBC

theLBC

Shiftless
Belligerents
Minuteman
Jun 21, 2019
1,213
1,597
119
Gross. But probably low backpressure. The new KAC cans are pretty sweet. Two or three generations past the old stuff.
greater volume = lower backpressure (everything else being equal)
newer designs are better...
 

RyanScott

Sergeant
Belligerents
Oct 14, 2005
1,553
636
219
33
Houston
I agree in part. Newer cans are better. But there isn’t a linear relationship between volume and backpressure. In fact in my experience the easiest way to reduce backpressure is to shorten the can and reduce its volume.
 

Aggie1819

Private
Minuteman
Oct 19, 2019
52
20
12
Pieced together a light weight build just in case I went this route. What do yall think?
 
  • Like
Reactions: theLBC

Maxduty

Quae Moriatur
Belligerents
Mar 8, 2014
738
1,547
99
Oklahoma
Of course a bunch of quality work and components can make any rifle shoot good or better. Those are really nice goups. However-the dude claimed a PSA shot 3/4" groups at 200yds with regularity. That's like high end bolt gun good.
That's what I was thinking, no f'ing way. Pics or it didn't happen...
I'm saying your not getting that kind of accuracy out of a sub $1k PSA factory gun like was stated above. PSA receivers with a criterion barrel is not a factory P10 or whatever they call it.
Go back and reread my post. Then reread it again. Then do it slowly and take in the info there. I've never claimed it was a factory gun or that it does it every time. It says "with a few mods" meaning parts have been changed and fitted better, with tuning occurring. It states "repeatedly" meaning it wasn't a one time group, but I never said it was all the time. However, I have a lot less in it than some spend on a name brand and it shoots just as good. And mine prefers 175 grain hand loads.
 

The DFC

Gunny Sergeant
Belligerents
Minuteman
Apr 14, 2018
725
527
99
White Bear Lake, MN
Go back and reread my post. Then reread it again. Then do it slowly and take in the info there. I've never claimed it was a factory gun or that it does it every time. It says "with a few mods" meaning parts have been changed and fitted better, with tuning occurring. It states "repeatedly" meaning it wasn't a one time group, but I never said it was all the time. However, I have a lot less in it than some spend on a name brand and it shoots just as good. And mine prefers 175 grain hand loads.

You mean this post :ROFLMAO: :

No love for the PSA Ar10? I'm using one that, with a few mods, has repeatedly shot 3/4 inch groups at 200 unsuppressed. I've yet to suppress it, but that's next.

lol

BTW if I had a gun-and I don't care if it's a GAP or AI bolt or Rem 700 or laser gun that shot near 1/3 moa I'd be posting pics of 5 shot group targets with 1 hole @100yds etc over and over and over again.
 

nn8734

nn8734
Belligerents
Feb 26, 2013
1,164
913
219
Las Vegas, NV
That stupid long one that we had on the SR25
Are you referring to the Mk11 Mod 0 suppressor? If so, how were they mounted to the SCARs, given that can needs notches for the gate latch and an indexing pin aft as well as a muzzle that straight-tapers at .75 for ~1.5”.

I’ve seen the long AAC cans on the 17s and SF 7.62SV on the MK20 but have not seen any pics of either with the Mk11 can.
 
Last edited:

LeadZeke

Sergeant of the Hide
Belligerents
Minuteman
Jun 16, 2019
311
112
49
Pieced together a light weight build just in case I went this route. What do yall think?

It is a good build for sure. The F4 Defense SF10 will be about the same weight/price (a little higher or lower on both depending on options) with the big advantage that you have less receiver flex and it is less bulky and a bit more accurate. And the big disadvantage that you have to use DPMS GII parts for the barrel/bolt/carrier which are harder to find. Really comes down to preference.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Aggie1819

hitman

Sergeant
Belligerents
Apr 23, 2004
415
117
49
Fort Smith, AR
I have been looking at the HK MR762 lately. Any love for them? I have a SCAR 20 and 17 and an LMT but looking at another large frame and it has my interest. Seems to be in the league with the other alphas.
 

The DFC

Gunny Sergeant
Belligerents
Minuteman
Apr 14, 2018
725
527
99
White Bear Lake, MN
I have been looking at the HK MR762 lately. Any love for them? I have a SCAR 20 and 17 and an LMT but looking at another large frame and it has my interest. Seems to be in the league with the other alphas.

Oh yeah-definitely interested. MR556 too.
 

theLBC

Shiftless
Belligerents
Minuteman
Jun 21, 2019
1,213
1,597
119
I have been looking at the HK MR762 lately. Any love for them? I have a SCAR 20 and 17 and an LMT but looking at another large frame and it has my interest. Seems to be in the league with the other alphas.
those are pretty awesome.
 

acts238

Sergeant
Belligerents
Mar 2, 2011
662
3
22
61
N W Montana
My only beef with a 16” 308 is that they feel more... “blasty” to me when shooting bare muzzle. I had one that deafened me every time I shot. My 17S is also in the category even after changing the muzzle device. I think 18” is most tolerable to my ear when ear pro isn’t being worn (hunting).
why wouldn't one wear earpro during Hunting ? I bought otto a similar device purposely for hunting to enhance low noise and block gunfire .
 

ScarlettRed

Private
Belligerents
Aug 7, 2017
92
45
24
Colorado
I've had several s.a. 308 style rifles. If i had to pick just one i think i'd get scar 20s and cut the barrel down 2-4 inches. I love my scar 17 but the 20s doesn't recoil as bad, has a much better barrel block, thicker barrel, comp trigger, extended forend and a precision stock. Great deal for the $. I like the folding stock on the 17, but honestly have never had a need to fold it. I shoot with a Tbac ultra 7, never had a problem. For some reason my 20s seemed louder than the 17. Not sure why. Maybe someday i might get an sr25 or an lmt mws just for collecting purposes, but i'm addicted to the side charging handle of the scar. Plus both of my scars are tack drivers. So far my 17 is the most accurate, but i haven't had my 20s long enough to really test it thoroughly yet. Damn winter weather!
 

Billiam1211

Sergeant of the Hide
Belligerents
Minuteman
Feb 19, 2018
165
59
34
31
IL
Just build one with premium components and tune it. I have an M5E1 that shoots well under MOA with 175gr SMK hand loads. I've taken it out to 700 yards at matches and it hammers. I'm running a Criterion barrel, Toolcraft BCG, APA brake, and a Larue MBT-2S trigger and the rifle has never had a hiccup. It's not as accurate as my precision bolt gun, but .6-.7 MOA from a gas gun for around $1,500 seems like a no brainer. Only thing I might change at some point is going to a 20-inch Kriger M110 barrel to lighten it up and hopefully shrink groups. I have a few thousand rounds to go before that's a thing tho
 

ScarlettRed

Private
Belligerents
Aug 7, 2017
92
45
24
Colorado
Yes I do. I would recommend a suppressor collar for both due to less barrel interface from the skinnier barrel at the threads. That is one reason i might cut my 20s down a bit to the thicker part of the barrel. It works as is though.
Do you use the TBAC on the 17 also?
 

jevan126

Sergeant
Belligerents
Jan 4, 2012
495
10
22
55
I have 2 AR-10 type rifles, one is a JP LRP-07 Ultra Light weighs 6.9lbs and with a TA11-J ACOG it is still under 8.0lbs. I also have a V7 Weapon Systems Harbinger .308 and it weighs 5.7lbs and with a TA33-C it's total weight is 7.1lbs, both of these rifles are Sweet Shooters that doesn't have much more recoil than my .223.