NRL/Border War name

kaffiend

Private
Minuteman
Dec 19, 2018
11
0
2
#1
Let me preface this by saying that I don't agree with politically correct naming schemes, but sometimes you have to deal with the reality of how things are actually perceived, not how we think they should be perceived.

I'm fairly new to precision rifle shooting and would like to get more involved with national matches being held by PRS and NRL. However I noticed that NRL is associated with another competition series called Border War. That name seems insane to me, given the current political climate. I honestly just love to shoot and enjoy the sport. If the point is to grow the sport, whoever runs this competition should seriously consider changing this name.

I was texting a friend who's a police officer in WA and a fellow Marine veteran - he agrees this is how we (gun owners) will lose everything. I'm a San Diego resident with a CCW. Now imagine I'm involved in a violent confrontation with an illegal immigrant and shoot him in self-defense. The first thing that will happen is Google search of my name, a review of all social media, professional, recreational memberships and associations. Now have it all repeated on CNN.

Could you imagine?

“The white male identified as 42yr old Mr. B.W. Gunnut of San Diego, is the alleged shooter of Cesar Gonzales, an undocumented immigrant worker and father of three. CNN has obtained information Mr. Gunnut regularly participates in sniper training at militia gatherings called 'Border Wars'."
 
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CavReconScout

Sergeant
Belligerents
Jul 18, 2013
372
34
34
Mendota, Illinois
#2
The series has been named that for several years prior to the recent events, and shares a similar name to a national TV show. Just out of curiosity, are you from a state that participates in this regional event? Are you thinking about joining and that is why you are concerned?
 

kaffiend

Private
Minuteman
Dec 19, 2018
11
0
2
#3
There is an NRL match in my area later this year. For professional reasons, I don't want my name associated with anything attached to strong political connotations. I don't know if match participant names are listed online. I'm not expecting to place anywhere in the top half of any match, but my name still shows up online for cycling events I did 10 years ago.
 

leftyk82

Son of a Son of a Sailor
Belligerents
Oct 8, 2014
229
147
49
Eagleville, TN
#4
It's all about agendas; lawyers and new media outlets certainly have them. I get your point.

Your hypothetical headline could also easily read:

“Mr. John Smith, 42 from San Diego, is the alleged victim of home-invader Mr. Cesar Gonzales, an undocumented immigrant worker. Mr. Smith allegedly shot Mr. Gonzales when he allegedly unlawfully entered Mr. Smith's residence, occupied by him along with his wife and three daughters. Fox News has obtained confirmation that Mr. Smith has lawfully held a concealed handgun carry permit for over 15 years and does not have a criminal record."

Changing the name of a competition of the already small shooting sports will not prevent spin from your headline. Gun owners and shooters will be demonized in our culture, regardless.
 

Tx_Aggie

Gig 'em
Hessian
Belligerents
Minuteman
Sep 3, 2017
249
207
49
VA
#5
Border War is also a metaphor used to describe College Football rivalries. Would you refuse to attend the CSU vs U or Wyoming football game because of the political connotations of it being called The Border War? The CSU community is pretty far left politically and they don't seem to have a problem with the term.

https://alumline.source.colostate.edu/the-border-war-a-football-game-a-boot-and-great-stories/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_War_(Colorado_State–Wyoming_rivalry)

The rivalry between Kansas and Missouri was also know as the Border War up until 2012 when Missouri left the Big 12.

The Border War rifle series was named in the same spirit of good natured competition, with no intent to trigger anyone's political sensitivities.
 
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Likes: CV_Ag

kaffiend

Private
Minuteman
Dec 19, 2018
11
0
2
#7
I understand the name was adopted in the spirit of competition, but the facts on the ground have changed and there's no escaping the connotations, even moreso when firearms are involved. I don't think it's only about "the left" and liberal perception.

As a CCW holder, I wouldn't carry a pistol with Angel of Death engraved on the slide (or have that any of my guns for that matter). As the operator of a motor vehicle, I wouldn't join a fun club called Jaywalker Mowdown and then risk have to explain that away after hitting some drunk who stumbled into traffic.

I just think that if a goal is to grow the sport, the organizational leaders should consider the perceptions of the name.
 

Maxduty

Quae Moriatur
Belligerents
Mar 8, 2014
417
731
99
Oklahoma
#8
You sound more like you worried about having your name connected to it. My suggestion would be to not participate, then you have no affiliation. You haven't shot anybody so far (have you?) and I'd guess you don't drive around mowing down drunks, so the problem is your's, not the series. Sometimes we don't care what people think and this may be one of them.
 

Forrest84

Private
Belligerents
Feb 14, 2017
253
57
34
Arlington TX
#9
Just don’t go man, we won’t miss you I promise.
You gotta wake up and realize that as long as the lefties spin things the way they do it doesn’t matter if we try extra hard to “whatch” what we call everything.
Grow a back bone and shoot if you want to shoot who gives a fuck about the name really
 

kaffiend

Private
Minuteman
Dec 19, 2018
11
0
2
#10
Constructive, thanks. I guess this thread is drawing out into the open some people with Born To Lose tattooed on their faces. I remember in high school I loved a band with this teenaged angst anthem on their 2nd album. The chorus of the song was "We don't care. What you think."

High school. Those were the days.
 

mrobles3808

Sergeant
Belligerents
Nov 21, 2013
313
65
34
Nebraska
#11
Put my name anywhere that represents the 2A and our constitutional rights — regardless of what the nets and any disagreeing party believes. I’m tired of responsible citizens feeling like they should be suppressed by those who think this or that is bad or good. If you know you aren’t committing a crime then why even have a guilty conscience? Rock out with your NRL/BWRS online name and don’t even consider for one day thinking that something negative should come as a result.
 

Meety Peety

AKA Gurth Brooks
Hessian
Minuteman
Dec 15, 2017
52
23
22
San Diego
#13
Could you imagine?

“The white male identified as 42yr old Mr. B.W. Gunnut of San Diego, is the alleged shooter of Cesar Gonzales, an undocumented immigrant worker and father of three. CNN has obtained information Mr. Gunnut regularly participates in sniper training at militia gatherings."
I think that if something did happen, and the media (Or anyone else for that matter) did decide they wanted to make a headline out of you, the above statement with the name 'Border Wars' omitted would more or less accomplish the exact same thing. If the agenda is to paint you in a negative light, they are going to find a way.

I think that in this circumstance, I would agree that the best course of action for you would be to simply not participate. Not in some disrespectful "Good we don't want you" type of way, I just think that if this is a real concern for you, there are plenty of other matches you can shoot that won't cause you this concern.
 

kaffiend

Private
Minuteman
Dec 19, 2018
11
0
2
#14
mrobles - It's a matter of I value my privacy. If I want someone to know about my political, religious or any other affiliations, it's my choice to reveal them. That's how I am in all parts of my life - not simply 2A issues. If you or anyone else chooses otherwise, have at it and that's great. I wouldn't want to deny you that.

Someone wrote earlier on this thread (but it appears to be deleted now) about registering with a pseudonym, which might be a good idea. I work in a scientific research field where I deal with people of all backgrounds, nationally and internationally. Sometimes I meet other secret gun nuts. Sometimes, particularly after high profile shootings, I meet people who are openly hostile towards guns and gun rights. If I ever choose to engage with them, I typically find them more receptive of my point of view because they already know me, and I didn't fit the profile of gun nut that they held. Whereas I'd be less likely to change someone's mind were I to adopt an -in your face- and screw what you think attitude.

EDIT: typos
 

Tx_Aggie

Gig 'em
Hessian
Belligerents
Minuteman
Sep 3, 2017
249
207
49
VA
#15
mrobles - It's a matter of I value my privacy. If I want someone to know about my political, religious or any other affiliations, it's my choice to reveal them. That's how I am in all parts of my life - not simply 2A issues. If you or anyone else chooses otherwise, have at it and that's great. I wouldn't want to deny you that.

Someone wrote earlier on this thread (but it appears to be deleted now) about registering with a pseudonym, which might be a good idea. I work in a scientific research field where I deal with people of all backgrounds, nationally and internationally. Sometimes I meet other secret gun nuts. Sometimes, particularly after high profile shootings, I meet people who are openly hostile towards guns and gun rights. If I ever choose to engage with them, I typically find them more receptive of my point of view because they already know me, and I didn't fit the profile of gun nut that they held. Whereas I'd be less likely to change someone's mind were I to adopt an -in your face- and screw what you think attitude.

EDIT: typos
That was me, perhaps I shouldn't have removed that part of my comment. You wouldn't be the first person to register for matches with a pseudonym because of concerns over how an interest in firearms might impact their career or that of a spouse, particularly if that person or their spouse has a position in academia.

If that will allay your fears, pick a cool fake name and drive on.
 
Likes: kaffiend

Meety Peety

AKA Gurth Brooks
Hessian
Minuteman
Dec 15, 2017
52
23
22
San Diego
#16
I think using a pseudonym is a good idea. Not sure if you can use a pseudonym for actually registering as a member of the different leagues, but I don't see why you couldn't just sign up and shoot matches as a non-member with any name you want. Might get awkward if you start winning matches and getting noticed though lol.
 

xNF_9

Sergeant
Belligerents
Jun 14, 2009
870
8
22
29
Bitter Cold
#17
I do not disagree with you wanting to keep your anonymity when it comes to your life. The thing that is odd to me is if anyone ever finds out your religious, political, or any affiliates and it affects your relationship with co-workers then they need to grow up and be an adult. Everyone has their own beliefs and if your in a company that is that hostile/political about another’s beliefs (hidden or not) is one place I would never want to work. It probably pays the bills nicely but if I would have to be a two face at work and then at home. No thanks.

Short answer use a pseudonym like the above mentioned. Only problem is if whoever finds out you believe or support something through your deception will make them think everything about you is fake. With me it’s who I am is who you get. (Which isn’t much)
 

MK20

Sergeant of the Hide
Belligerents
Minuteman
Apr 17, 2018
407
452
69
Up North
#18
That would only happen to you if you live in a Western Bloc state like CA. Move while you still can.
 

Yoteski

Private
Belligerents
Feb 13, 2017
166
105
49
#19
Funny story related to this; I was wearing my Border Wars shirt one day(gray with the skull) and was approached by someone who was like, "wow, what's that about, are you a part of something on the border!?", obviously reading into it way too much. Had to explain it's simply a precision rifle match and has nothing to do with the current political climate.
Couple lessons learned. One, people who are willing to be brainwashed will do so and theres nothing I can do about it. The PC climate of this country will destroy our First Amendment eventually. Second, IDGAF what "perception" people have when they choose to be uninformed.
 

kaffiend

Private
Minuteman
Dec 19, 2018
11
0
2
#20
Funny story related to this; I was wearing my Border Wars shirt one day(gray with the skull) and was approached by someone who was like, "wow, what's that about, are you a part of something on the border!?", obviously reading into it way too much. Had to explain it's simply a precision rifle match and has nothing to do with the current political climate.
Couple lessons learned. One, people who are willing to be brainwashed will do so and theres nothing I can do about it. The PC climate of this country will destroy our First Amendment eventually. Second, IDGAF what "perception" people have when they choose to be uninformed.
This demonstrates the point. Why wouldn't a reasonable person with no knowledge of a niche shooting sport think of anything other than the current events at the Southern Border? There was a war, oddly enough, along the Southern Border called the Border War (1910-1919). And the border debate occupies a large portion of the national discussion right now.

People make quick judgements based on available information, that's how the brain works. We all rely on heuristics and biases in decision making, even if the information is unrelated to the central question. Consider a situation where you're doing a kitchen remodel and someone recommends a contractor. So you Google Joe Contractor and in addition to his website, you see pictures of him at a rally wearing a pink pussy hat. Will that weigh on your decision to use him as a contractor?

Or you need some kind of surgery, and during the consult, the doctor comes in wearing a NRL/Border Wars patch on his shoulder. Do you then assume, hey, this guy's awesome, fail to investigate further and it turns out he has three malpractice lawsuits pending. By the way, you'll find that most doctors and professionals who deal with a broad variety of people don't use any social media, exactly for this reason.
 

mrobles3808

Sergeant
Belligerents
Nov 21, 2013
313
65
34
Nebraska
#21
This demonstrates the point. Why wouldn't a reasonable person with no knowledge of a niche shooting sport think of anything other than the current events at the Southern Border? There was a war, oddly enough, along the Southern Border called the Border War (1910-1919). And the border debate occupies a large portion of the national discussion right now.

People make quick judgements based on available information, that's how the brain works. We all rely on heuristics and biases in decision making, even if the information is unrelated to the central question. Consider a situation where you're doing a kitchen remodel and someone recommends a contractor. So you Google Joe Contractor and in addition to his website, you see pictures of him at a rally wearing a pink pussy hat. Will that weigh on your decision to use him as a contractor?

Or you need some kind of surgery, and during the consult, the doctor comes in wearing a NRL/Border Wars patch on his shoulder. Do you then assume, hey, this guy's awesome, fail to investigate further and it turns out he has three malpractice lawsuits pending. By the way, you'll find that most doctors and professionals who deal with a broad variety of people don't use any social media, exactly for this reason.
Your points could be demonstrated in multiple arenas such as, email account names, PlayStation account names, Facebook searches, purchases (like guns and ammo), whether you vote Republican or Democrat, if you have a bad record, if you have drank alcohol, Netflix frequently viewed shows, YouTube searches, whether you drive diesel or gas vehicles, or how about whether you are a member or Snipershide or not? I’m really surprised something like this even comes up on a forum like this - - and to make matters more interesting, people agree. Do you feel like you live in a free country? If so, then why are you worried?
 

Racer88

Online Training Member
Online Training Access
Belligerents
Minuteman
Nov 10, 2018
211
153
49
#22
By the way, you'll find that most doctors and professionals who deal with a broad variety of people don't use any social media, exactly for this reason.
Yeah... not true. DEFINITELY not true. I am qualified to tell you that WE health professionals are ALL OVER social media. MOST of us. Believe me. :geek: Oh... and we are a VERY opinionated lot! :cool: Also... far more shooters among us than you'd think.
 

Yoteski

Private
Belligerents
Feb 13, 2017
166
105
49
#23
This demonstrates the point. Why wouldn't a reasonable person with no knowledge of a niche shooting sport think of anything other than the current events at the Southern Border? There was a war, oddly enough, along the Southern Border called the Border War (1910-1919). And the border debate occupies a large portion of the national discussion right now.

People make quick judgements based on available information, that's how the brain works. We all rely on heuristics and biases in decision making, even if the information is unrelated to the central question. Consider a situation where you're doing a kitchen remodel and someone recommends a contractor. So you Google Joe Contractor and in addition to his website, you see pictures of him at a rally wearing a pink pussy hat. Will that weigh on your decision to use him as a contractor?

Or you need some kind of surgery, and during the consult, the doctor comes in wearing a NRL/Border Wars patch on his shoulder. Do you then assume, hey, this guy's awesome, fail to investigate further and it turns out he has three malpractice lawsuits pending. By the way, you'll find that most doctors and professionals who deal with a broad variety of people don't use any social media, exactly for this reason.
Why is it my responsibility or NRL/Borderwars to worry about what triggers someone? There's plenty of Hispanic Americans who shoot along with several other races, sexes, and creeds. Are you inferring that it somehow puts off a racist vibe? Don't get caught up in the white noise of the PC culture. Nothing you do will ever appease the liberal mindset. Shooting, at its core is actually one of the most welcoming sports there is when it comes to societal and cultural boundaries. At no match I've ever shot, Border Wars or otherwise, have I ever heard a single utterance regarding race. If people not associated with the sport want to be ignorant of what we're doing, that's on them, not us.
You're acting like there's a branded perception to Border Wars that couldn't be fixed by a .5 second Google search.
 

IronHorsePilot

Sergeant
Belligerents
Feb 15, 2012
477
10
22
MO
www.osagearmory.com
#24
I guess if you're really worried about it why don't you contact the person who started the Border Wars and ask his opinion. If you don't know who it is, send me a PM and I will let you know. It's not hard to find.

No matter how much you value your privacy do you really think if the series was called something else, and you were involved in the scenario you described, that the left wing liberal media wouldn't spin it into something it's not? They would just say you participated in long-range shooting practicing killing people from a distance. You can't win with the left wing liberal media! Haven't you figured that out?
 

shifty06

Private
Belligerents
Mar 12, 2017
42
4
12
Pike County IL
#31
Wow this is great! I wonder if Jim See has seen this? NRL partnered with Jim who ran BWRS series. which was a Mid West thing (IL,MO,IA,WI,SD,IN,KY. 2018 season an less in 2017) Think i named them all. Anyway Adrian (think his name is spelled right) couldn't keep up with his day job an run all the registration an scoring anymore so Jim farmed/sold/leased it out. The NRL was interested, an took in Country wide. Name was around Way before political issues.

So do we rename event's, leagues, teams, exc. B/c there is a new political agenda that has nothing to do with the agenda other than name?
 

Kadams1563

Giver of Bad Advice
Belligerents
Feb 13, 2017
795
309
69
#32
Problem is your a San Diego resident and have already been brainwashed.

Your like everyone else in CA and our youth. LOOKING for a reason to get offended. Stay in CA we don’t need any more of you. It’s too late if your throwing a fit about a damn name to a shoot.

We have a shoot coming up called battle of the states. Does that mean that we should be careful because it refers to violence between two states?

Take that snowflake somewhere else. ARF.COM for example.
 
Likes: Mordamer

kaffiend

Private
Minuteman
Dec 19, 2018
11
0
2
#33
Problem is your a San Diego resident and have already been brainwashed.

Your like everyone else in CA and our youth. LOOKING for a reason to get offended. Stay in CA we don’t need any more of you. It’s too late if your throwing a fit about a damn name to a shoot.

We have a shoot coming up called battle of the states. Does that mean that we should be careful because it refers to violence between two states?

Take that snowflake somewhere else. ARF.COM for example.
Settle down before your indiscriminate rage towards "liberals" leads to a stroke. Take a moment to appreciate the rich irony of calling someone brainwashed while parroting the standard snowflake response to anything you disagree with. San Diego and Orange County have huge veteran populations because of Camp Pendleton and Naval bases.

Somehow I think if people were involved in an event called the "Take a Knee Challenge" no matter what it was about, they would drop the name like a bad habit after the NFL kneeling protests became a political lightening rod.

I haven't mentioned anything about my politics here, but some of the responses prove why I hesitate to associate myself with anything that could be confused with a political stance.

And maybe I'm slightly envious of those of you who can clobber your way through life by not giving a shit what anyone thinks. But when you leave the comfort and safety of your hometown and the constant reinforcement of like-minded people, life doesn't always work that way. A lot of times you run into some great people who you wouldn't otherwise meet.

EDIT: Typo
 
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shifty06

Private
Belligerents
Mar 12, 2017
42
4
12
Pike County IL
#36
I wouldn't worry about it guys, He's a Troll. Goes on to bash you in several posts for the decision you support. New Member an only post is this, Trash

First off I think it would all be about context you just can't throw it out the window. It's called an educated decision even if it is only to educate yourself to find the context.

According to his posts you couldn't own anything Blue or Red for fear of being related to a party. Never mind you just may like that color. "I hesitate to associate myself with anything that could be confused with a political stance."

I wouldn't use that as an excuse to hide my name at a match, your not hiding from anything or the people your scared of. Might even raise more suspicion when they do find out.

You blamed others for not providing constructive feedback what is your other than I don't like the name? I would take the advice of others an not go. You be "too worried about what others think" from my gathering of your words. (is my gun the right color?, Hope this Flag don't offend anyone, wonder if I shoot the right cartridge? Or was it last years OMG!, Wonder if people think I suck?, exc. exc. exc.) If you worry what others think I'm sorry that must suck, good thing its not my problem. Shooting community or this site won't miss you. BC in the end you will turn on them to please others done said it. "Worry about what others think" Talk about high school lol. Sounds like your still there.

An don't use the I travel for my job excuse, a lot of us do including me. I meet all walks from all over the world, don't mean I have too share my life story. We are there for a purpose to get a job done, get it done keep it professional move on. If they want to search my name on google on their own time so be it. An if they select someone else bc of something they find that you do on your own time well that sucks get to the top of your field.

Shifty to Thin skinned OUT.
 

kaffiend

Private
Minuteman
Dec 19, 2018
11
0
2
#37
I wouldn't worry about it guys, He's a Troll. Goes on to bash you in several posts for the decision you support. New Member an only post is this, Trash

First off I think it would all be about context you just can't throw it out the window. It's called an educated decision even if it is only to educate yourself to find the context.

According to his posts you couldn't own anything Blue or Red for fear of being related to a party. Never mind you just may like that color. "I hesitate to associate myself with anything that could be confused with a political stance."

I wouldn't use that as an excuse to hide my name at a match, your not hiding from anything or the people your scared of. Might even raise more suspicion when they do find out.

You blamed others for not providing constructive feedback what is your other than I don't like the name? I would take the advice of others an not go. You be "too worried about what others think" from my gathering of your words. (is my gun the right color?, Hope this Flag don't offend anyone, wonder if I shoot the right cartridge? Or was it last years OMG!, Wonder if people think I suck?, exc. exc. exc.) If you worry what others think I'm sorry that must suck, good thing its not my problem. Shooting community or this site won't miss you. BC in the end you will turn on them to please others done said it. "Worry about what others think" Talk about high school lol. Sounds like your still there.

An don't use the I travel for my job excuse, a lot of us do including me. I meet all walks from all over the world, don't mean I have too share my life story. We are there for a purpose to get a job done, get it done keep it professional move on. If they want to search my name on google on their own time so be it. An if they select someone else bc of something they find that you do on your own time well that sucks get to the top of your field.

Shifty to Thin skinned OUT.
That's a lot of effort for someone you regard as a troll. I wrote in the original post that I generally don't agree with politically correct naming schemes but there seems to be a lot of arguing against claims I didn't make. "wonder if I shoot the right cartridge?" Reduction to the absurd at its best.

I didn't "bash" anyone or resort to name calling but I'll be sure to point out the idiocy anyone who does. I made that point that the NRL, according to their name and mission statement, is national organization dedicated to the growth of precision rifle shooting. If anything, it's bad branding that a competition name is easily associated with something unrelated to it. If you don't agree, fine. I can't force anyone to change a thing. It's a discussion and if someone has nothing to add, maybe they shouldn't add anything.
 

308pirate

Gunny Sergeant
Banned !
Belligerents
Apr 25, 2017
5,625
3,539
119
#42
I understand the name was adopted in the spirit of competition, but the facts on the ground have changed and there's no escaping the connotations, even moreso when firearms are involved. I don't think it's only about "the left" and liberal perception.

As a CCW holder, I wouldn't carry a pistol with Angel of Death engraved on the slide (or have that any of my guns for that matter). As the operator of a motor vehicle, I wouldn't join a fun club called Jaywalker Mowdown and then risk have to explain that away after hitting some drunk who stumbled into traffic.

I just think that if a goal is to grow the sport, the organizational leaders should consider the perceptions of the name.
If you're so afraid of these things, perhaps this isn't the sport for you. Maybe sporting clays will be more acceptable to the sensibilities of the people you fear.

And maybe even firearms ownership isn't for you. After all, pictures of you with a SNIPER rifle might show up online.


the facts on the ground have changed and there's no escaping the connotations, even moreso when firearms are involved. I don't think it's only about "the left" and liberal perception.
Wait, WHAT? No, that's exactly what it is about.
 
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308pirate

Gunny Sergeant
Banned !
Belligerents
Apr 25, 2017
5,625
3,539
119
#44
It's a discussion and if someone has nothing to add, maybe they shouldn't add anything.
When you say "something to add" say what you really mean: "something to add that validates my fears and biases"

I bet you think my signature here means I have "born to lose" tattoed on my forehead.
 
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308pirate

Gunny Sergeant
Banned !
Belligerents
Apr 25, 2017
5,625
3,539
119
#47
It is high on the totem pole of poor life choices but I have some suggestions for a cover-up if you're interested.
No thanks. I'm Latino so in your world that's a get out of jail free card.

Say, would some of your acquaintances that might be offended by the Border Wars name be up for a helicopter ride with me? We can start up the rotors and go......
 

Dthomas3523

Fuck your feelings....and peanut allergies
Hessian
Online Training Access
Belligerents
Minuteman
Jan 31, 2018
2,145
1,700
119
South Texas
#50
Breaking news. In an effort to calm down PC snowflakes, Border Wars has officially been named “shoot the Mexican.”