New Vudoo Thread with Eley Test Results and Pictures to follow.

Sep 16, 2009
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#1
I am starting this thread to share my recent experience with Vudoo Tactical and Dan Killough at the Eley test center.
Last fall I read the thread about the newly introduced Vudoo Tactical 22 LR repeater rifles. I have long had an interest in accurate 22 LR rifles but an aversion to single shots. Those reading this thread likely already have seen the other Vudoo Tactical threads so I will not repeat what has been previously posted.

In late November I ordered 3 Barreled actions melonited, threaded barrels cut to 20". Two were to have Bartlien and one would have the Vudoo barrel. There was a slight hold up due to getting barrels from Bartlein. The rifles were still delivered prior to the 8-10 week time frame quoted.

All three barreled actions were shipped directly to Dan Killough at the Eley test facility in Winters TX. This was pre arranged and went smoothly. All three rifles were tested using Eley Tenex ammunition and standard Eley testing protocol. One was then fitted with a Harrell tuner and tuner settings determined. It was then fully retested. Dan noted that the most accurate lot of ammunition in the first test was still the most accurate with the tuner. He said this is normally the case. This indicates to me that the test protocol has validity. Due to the short, stiff barrel tuning had a positive but limited effect on grouping.

As the results will show, all of the rifles were accurate to near bench rest standards. Dan said the one with the tuner was the most accurate repeater he had tested IIRC. He also said top notch full custom BR rifles with single shot actions shoot to a slightly higher standard than these. The difference is small.

Paul will be posting the shooting results below. I will be posting rifle pictures when the actions land and I get one set up next week.

Dealing with both Vudoo Tactical and Killough Shooting Sports, (Eley Test Center) was a very positive experience.

RTH
 
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RAVAGE88

Vudoo, Head Skunk
Feb 13, 2017
365
114
43
Somers, CT
www.vudoogunworks.com
#4
Thanks for posting RTH. I've received a particular question a lot, so, I wanted to take a moment to state our position on "accuracy guarantees." Basically, we want to show more than we want to tell, especially when it comes to rimfire. Most who are serious about shooting rimfire are aware that ammo is a big part of what is seen in accuracy. Not everyone is willing to invest the same in ammo, so we allow the targets to speak for us. We use our targets and those of others to create a large baseline and it gives our customers an idea of where to start with ammo. A few rifles have been sent to the Eley Test Facility and the comments from Dan have been very consistent in what he sees from Vudoo, and Dan sees them all. The Vudoo Gun Works V-22 is consistently shooting as accurately as single shot BR rifles, rifle after rifle. I commonly refer to the Eley targets when answering the "accuracy guarantee" question, as the targets are actual data; the more we shoot, the more data we can use to develop experience. So, instead of saying, "we guarantee X," we say, "from what we've seen from actual targets...."

Hope this helps....

MB
 
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Sep 14, 2003
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60
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East Tennessee
#5
While I haven't ordered one of these yet, I have to say that is one of the best responses I've ever heard in regards to questions about accuracy guarantees.

Kudos to you for letting the results speak for themselves instead of making claims without substance.
 

RAVAGE88

Vudoo, Head Skunk
Feb 13, 2017
365
114
43
Somers, CT
www.vudoogunworks.com
#6
While I haven't ordered one of these yet, I have to say that is one of the best responses I've ever heard in regards to questions about accuracy guarantees.

Kudos to you for letting the results speak for themselves instead of making claims without substance.
Thanks, RT. The design of the V-22 is based on data, in keeping with how it was approached, I prefer to state the performance on data as well. I refer to it as, "passion driven by data."

MB
 

BigJimFish

Full Member
Jul 24, 2011
580
19
18
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Columbus, OH
#7
I'm a little confused, the OP spoke of 3 rifles. I see test data posted by Rob01 that has all unique lot numbers on the groups suggesting it is from only 1 rifle. My thoughts are that this data is from Rob's rifle (which I have seen on other threads) and that the data for rth1800's 3 rifles is not yet posted. Is this the case?
 
Dec 17, 2013
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West Babylon, NY
#9
Data is great no doubt about it but a barreled action clamped with a tuner really doesn’t translate into the real world especially when it’s sitting in an actual stock and being shot. Shooting in matches will be the real test imo along with time. If these can shoot on par with the best of them configured in the same fashion (1/4” or better at 50 yards), what happens if someone gets a rifle that does 1/2”, 3/8” etc on average? Does one get to send it back or it is what it is? Reason I ask this question is I’ve had many ask me to build a rifle on one of these actions but right now I can’t fit in. Knowing this answer I can pass it along so they get the info they want and can have one done directly from you guys.
 

RAVAGE88

Vudoo, Head Skunk
Feb 13, 2017
365
114
43
Somers, CT
www.vudoogunworks.com
#10
I’m wondering, what’s the difference between “real world” accuracy and the root capability of the barreled action? When you know the root capability, why would you not expect “real world” accuracy to be the same when the B/A is mounted in the stock/chassis if you’ve properly stocked the B/A? This is one reason accuracy guarantees are just words, especially when Vudoo ships a lot of stand alone actions and B/A’s.

In the case of the OP, his application is to use a tuner for whatever reason he chose to purchase what he did. The test facilities don’t test in a stock because they want to remove any variable that can affect the results. When VGW ships a complete rifle, there have already been numerous discussions between the customer and VGW, wherein, the expectations of performance are set. There’s not been any reported accuracy issues or problems pertaining to accuracy. Published data speaks for itself. The few issues, not pertaining to accuracy, our customers are aware of are dealt with immediately and on our dime.

If someone other than VGW barrels a V-22, that person can speak to the level of accuracy relative to the quality of their own work. There are actions barreled by GA Precision, Flatland and many others that are achieving the same accuracy results as Vudoo.

As far as the posted target, it’s from one of the three rifles purchased by the OP. Rob01 has a different serial number than what’s logged in the above results. I cannot speak to why the results were posted by Rob and not the OP.

MB
 
Dec 17, 2013
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27
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West Babylon, NY
#11
I’m wondering, what’s the difference between “real world” accuracy and the root capability of the barreled action? When you know the root capability, why would you not expect “real world” accuracy to be the same when the B/A is mounted in the stock/chassis if you’ve properly stocked the B/A? This is one reason accuracy guarantees are just words, especially when Vudoo ships a lot of stand alone actions and B/A’s.

In the case of the OP, his application is to use a tuner for whatever reason he chose to purchase what he did. The test facilities don’t test in a stock because they want to remove any variable that can affect the results. When VGW ships a complete rifle, there have already been numerous discussions between the customer and VGW, wherein, the expectations of performance are set. There’s not been any reported accuracy issues or problems pertaining to accuracy. Published data speaks for itself. The few issues, not pertaining to accuracy, our customers are aware of are dealt with immediately and on our dime.

If someone other than VGW barrels a V-22, that person can speak to the level of accuracy relative to the quality of their own work. There are actions barreled by GA Precision, Flatland and many others that are achieving the same accuracy results as Vudoo.

As far as the posted target, it’s from one of the three rifles purchased by the OP. Rob01 has a different serial number than what’s logged in the above results. I cannot speak to why the results were posted by Rob and not the OP.

MB

All I do is rimfire and have seen tons of rifles that have been shot at both eley and lapua. Lot testing in this manner isn’t 100% perfect. I’ve seen guns do poorly at the facility and shoot wonderful in the stock and the other way around. Why? It’s called harmonics. Rimfires are way more sensitive ton bedding than a centerfire is and we don’t have the luxury for hand loading. No chassis or stock is a perfect and a fixture or partial chassis being clamped from the side can change harmonics for the better or worse. A tuner can help cause its tuning the harmonics.

Accuracy guarantees aren’t just words as it reflects the confidence in your ability and gives a buyer piece of mind. No wants to spend over $2k on a rifle to shoot 1/2” groups at 50 yards. On centerfire there are many capable of building an excellent rifle and most guarantee a certain level of accuracy. In rimfire the competition is much less but the smiths that are good will guarantee 1/4”-1/2” depending on the setup. Those who have this guarantee trust me it isn’t just words cause the moment you don’t honor it, everyone is gonna know about it (beauty of the Internet)!!!!

I’m 100% confident I could build a gun on your action that i could guarantee 1/4”. Majority of the accuracy is in the barrel and chamber used, how good the ignition is (can always be fixed), bedding etc. I just simply don’t have the time right now to take on these builds but for those that have contacted me about it, they all had the same question. I understand some guys must have a rifle to replicate their centerfire rig. I just wanted to know at what level do you guys consider a gun not up to standards at 50 yards. Closer than 50 doesn’t really tell much as many guns will shoot well at 25 yards unless something is off by a mile lol. If you don’t feel comfortable posting this in public you can feel free to pm me.
 

RAVAGE88

Vudoo, Head Skunk
Feb 13, 2017
365
114
43
Somers, CT
www.vudoogunworks.com
#12
Well, it’s not likely anything is 100% perfect and it’s great you publish accuracy guarantees, but how can you guarantee what you just admitted isn’t perfect? This is why we choose to approach it differently and I know, through constant feedback and communication, there’s no absence of confidence amongst our customer base.

We proved in Ohio the V-22 shoots groups equal to rifles costing four times as much. We proved at NRA World Championships our rifles don’t fail with hard abuse, firing more than 5000 rounds through two rifles when other rifles in years past couldn’t make it through a day of shooting. We travel with our rifles, shooting in venues that give us the most effective data we can collect and we execute quickly on what we learn. We offer a rifle build based on testing and data and if we ship it, it’s “guaranteed.”

I, and others, have been posting targets here, on FB and other forums of 10 to 60 shot groups that are equal to or below any published accuracy guarantee. If there’s an issue, we deal with whatever it is, no questions asked. We test and function every rifle prior to shipping and we’re delivering at or under the quoted delivery times. Our customer service is stellar, no games, no drama. And, I believe the only product you’ll see on the VGW website is Rimfire.

If ever you’re interested in expanding your allegiance and building on the V-22, I’ll be more than happy to answer whatever questions you may have, as I’m immediately available through many forms of communication, to include PM.

Thanks, DJ.

MB
 

Fret

USAF Retired
Nov 14, 2017
110
42
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N Idaho
#13
Since harmonics and it's effect on accuracy was brought up, does the material the stock/chassis is made of have an effect on accuracy?
 
Dec 17, 2013
613
27
28
West Babylon, NY
#14
Well, it’s not likely anything is 100% perfect and it’s great you publish accuracy guarantees, but how can you guarantee what you just admitted isn’t perfect? This is why we choose to approach it differently and I know, through constant feedback and communication, there’s no absence of confidence amongst our customer base.

We proved in Ohio the V-22 shoots groups equal to rifles costing four times as much. We proved at NRA World Championships our rifles don’t fail with hard abuse, firing more than 5000 rounds through two rifles when other rifles in years past couldn’t make it through a day of shooting. We travel with our rifles, shooting in venues that give us the most effective data we can collect and we execute quickly on what we learn. We offer a rifle build based on testing and data and if we ship it, it’s “guaranteed.”

I, and others, have been posting targets here, on FB and other forums of 10 to 60 shot groups that are equal to or below any published accuracy guarantee. If there’s an issue, we deal with whatever it is, no questions asked. We test and function every rifle prior to shipping and we’re delivering at or under the quoted delivery times. Our customer service is stellar, no games, no drama. And, I believe the only product you’ll see on the VGW website is Rimfire.

If ever you’re interested in expanding your allegiance and building on the V-22, I’ll be more than happy to answer whatever questions you may have, as I’m immediately available through many forms of communication, to include PM.

Thanks, DJ.

MB
I can guarantee it no problem as with the variables in bedding, the barrel, and ignition, can all be fixed to work together. With a factory barrel no guarantee is possible as your at the mercy of one of the most important parts of the build and it doesn’t matter how good you are as the results will only be as good as the barrel you are using.

From your response I think it’s safe to say if someone got a build that didn’t match the targets posted it would be handled which is all I wanted to know. No matter how good your are sometimes things happen like a dud or picky barrel.


I have a few rifles out in the tactical matches one of which is doing very well. It’s an Anschutz 64 owned by a gentleman out in UT. It took first place in December out of 39 shooters and it’s most recent showing I believe it didn’t it again but can’t confirm yet. The NRL22 match we will see how it goes. Once my schedule clears I’d love to get my hands on a v22 to see what I can do with it. As a guy who builds them and has no desire to produce a custom action, I’ll use just about anything! Are the magazines on the v22 an off the shelf part or something that was designed from the ground up? Send me a PM as I’d like some additional info on action thread size, the bolt guide setup being used, and some other stuff :). Once the work load I have calms down I’d like to grab an action!
 

RAVAGE88

Vudoo, Head Skunk
Feb 13, 2017
365
114
43
Somers, CT
www.vudoogunworks.com
#15
I can guarantee it no problem as with the variables in bedding, the barrel, and ignition, can all be fixed to work together. With a factory barrel no guarantee is possible as your at the mercy of one of the most important parts of the build and it doesn’t matter how good you are as the results will only be as good as the barrel you are using.

From your response I think it’s safe to say if someone got a build that didn’t match the targets posted it would be handled which is all I wanted to know. No matter how good your are sometimes things happen like a dud or picky barrel.


I have a few rifles out in the tactical matches one of which is doing very well. It’s an Anschutz 64 owned by a gentleman out in UT. It took first place in December out of 39 shooters and it’s most recent showing I believe it didn’t it again but can’t confirm yet. The NRL22 match we will see how it goes. Once my schedule clears I’d love to get my hands on a v22 to see what I can do with it. As a guy who builds them and has no desire to produce a custom action, I’ll use just about anything! Are the magazines on the v22 an off the shelf part or something that was designed from the ground up? Send me a PM as I’d like some additional info on action thread size, the bolt guide setup being used, and some other stuff :). Once the work load I have calms down I’d like to grab an action!
Thanks, DJ, I know you do stellar work and you’re highly regarded within the rimfire circles.

The magazines are a ground up design based on the AICS form factor. The design of our magazine is part of how we feed in a manner to not impart damage to the bullet, as I’m sure you’re aware of what happens when the bullet is damaged.

I’ll shoot you a PM with my direct number, I’d like to spend some time on the phone when you’re available. I’m traveling home from SHOT today and can be available in a day or so.

Thanks again,
MB
 
Sep 16, 2009
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#16
I finally managed to get the rifle in stock. (AIAX) Scope mounted. (S&B 5-25) Trigger installed. CG-Xtream two stage). First range trip was brief. It was 20 degrees and winds from 6:00 at 10-20 MPH gust. I simply wanted to get preliminary sighting, adjust stock and true scope.
Fired 3 shots at 25 yards to sight. Fired 3 shots at 50 yards to tune sighting. I shot one group at 100 yards. One sighter, dialed over and shot a 5 shot group. Eley Match.
It measured .349x.220 CTC. The larger number was vertical which is to be expected with a gusty 6:00 wind. I was amazed.
My daughter shot a 5 shot group and it was .850x.430 CTC. Larger number vertical again. We were both impressed but cold and went home. Will hopefully get some pictures posted soon.
One thing that I want to point out is that the testing as done at KSS is far more scientific and demanding than what I use to determine accuracy. If my rifle shoots 5 shot groups of a satisfying size to me three to five times in a row I am happy. Hard to compare forty shot composite groups with my normal shooting demands.

More results when weather permits.
 

jbell

Gunny Sergeant
Jan 16, 2010
3,571
162
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Lewiston, ME
#17
Pretty damn hard to beat the 1st 100 yard group @ 0.349" never mind the conditions you were shooting in. Your certainly off to a good start, I look forward to hearing more when you get back to the range.
 
Sep 16, 2009
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#19
Nomad,
I had the rifles tested by Eley as barreled actions. I then sold two of the barreled actions.
I do have pictures of the one I kept. I will be glad to email or text photos to someone who can post them. I am very low tech and simply don't know how. Anyone who is willing to post them for me please text me at 785-214-thirty two ten.
As of now it is set up with CG xtream two stage trigger, Harrell tuner, black AIAX post 2014 Chassis, ADM mount and S&B 5-25 P4F CCW.
Thanks,
RTH
 
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Aug 19, 2013
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North of Charlotte, NC
#20
Thanks, DJ, I know you do stellar work and you’re highly regarded within the rimfire circles.
As someone who has a TON of respect for what you're both doing, can I please ask this....... PLEASE DON'T DISCUSS THIS STUFF OVER PM!

Okay, now seriously, all of us who don't have the experience in rimfire that you guys have, stand to learn a LOT from your discussion, and we'd love to be part of it. Please consider discussing any technical merits right here, where we can soak it all in! For so many of us, our goal is to learn and have the best rifle system we can possibly have....

Thanks to both of you for supporting this sport!

-Scott