New 'production' rifle from PVA - J. Hancock

bohem

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Curious on same for barreled actions...
The best I can say right now is summertime. The machinery that is now 2+ weeks late from the dealer (let's not go down that rabbit hole) can cut barrels at an incredible rate. Cutting the barrels isn't the only piece of the puzzle so I can say from the logistical tail in direct control of PVA we're in really good shape to ship rifles and barreled actions starting in April. ARC is making actions now and telling me they're on pace for deliveries, Rock Creek is actually delivering barrels as I type this, Timney is projecting no issues with triggers, etc etc.

The one piece I still don't know at all yet is the marking variance from the ATF. That's a little harder to get a status on it and I certainly can't lean on them to "hurry up".

For barreled actions the marking variance paperwork is inconsequential, for the rifle it's crucial to having something to ship.
 
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Brazo

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1) The deposit is non-refundable. This is done to cover some of the costs associated with the original PO's involved in ordering parts. Placing an order for a rifle and then backing out means I have a PO for parts that are set against your purchase. Backing out leaves me with extra parts that may not be easy to push around.

2) THe barrels deliveries are going to be after the pre-order of rifles is complete or I'm cutting that caliber. Meaning that if a customer does what you're suggesting, orders a rifle in say 6.5 and also a spare barrel in 6BR the rifle will ship without the spare pipe until we are cutting 6BR's and then we will put the spares onto the back end of the rifle order run.

3) Barrels are available for purchase now and they cement your place in line with the spare barrels. If you wait til August to order a barrel it may or may not be August when you get it. It's hard to say as we are speaking hypotheticals that still have months of work involved.

4) The latest Gen of Norma brass is actually very good. I won't be switching for the simple fact that I am so heavily intertwined with the Lapua brass that the only way I'm going to shoot the Norma is if someone starts making factory ammo using that brass.

My 105 Hybrids and 6BR load pumps them at 2900fps, I also shoot the 95TMK at 3065fps. It's pretty darn capable not to have to fireform.

5) Simple limitation of variables for production. If you want a 6x47 then the performance twin is 6 Creed. The only non-factory ammo chambers we are doing on the JHR will be the 2 dasher variants and we're only doing that to provide a jumping off point for a manufacturer to get on board with factory Dasher. This is like VHS vs. BetaMax in the precision calibers game... the company that makes the factory ammo for Dasher first is going to clobber the market.






Bingo. We have to draw the line somewhere.


Those goals are then well fit by a Medium Palma. The JHR sits a little front heavy with a 26" medium palma and no scope. With a scope it depends on the model of optic a lot but the balance point with a Khales 624i and spigot mount is about 3/4" forward of the recoil lug, a 22" barrel would bring it back to just about on the recoil lug line.
Thank you for the response, I appreciate it.
 
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bohem

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When will 6 Creedmore completed J.H. rifles ship?

I'm going to order but I am stuck on caliber choice VS delivery date.
I dont have a specific date, as stated above. The 6 Creed is after 6.5 Creed and 6BR, it is less popular than those calibers. My best estimate is summertime.

The longer you wait the farther back in the order queue your order ends up.
 

bohem

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Thanks. I just pre ordered a 6.5Cr since no good idea when 6Cr or 6 Dasher would be in cue.
Thank you.
Like I said above, I'd love to give you a hard date but this industry is not well supportive of hard dates and there are a lot of moving pieces to bring out this product, some of which are quite difficult to "lean on" about timely deadlines.
 
Jul 6, 2017
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I dont have a specific date, as stated above. The 6 Creed is after 6.5 Creed and 6BR, it is less popular than those calibers. My best estimate is summertime.



I have got to ask....... my order # 1874 placed on 1/25/18 and is a 6 creedmoor ...... Are you saying that I'm not in queue until the 6.5 and 6BR are made and not based on when I ordered ???

And I'm going to be without a rifle until summertime?
 

bohem

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I dont have a specific date, as stated above. The 6 Creed is after 6.5 Creed and 6BR, it is less popular than those calibers. My best estimate is summertime.



I have got to ask....... my order # 1874 placed on 1/25/18 and is a 6 creedmoor ...... Are you saying that I'm not in queue until the 6.5 and 6BR are made and not based on when I ordered ???

And I'm going to be without a rifle until summertime?

Yes and no.
Yes, we are filling the orders for barrels by the most popular caliber first, then by the order placed within that caliber.
I put a cutoff date of Feb 15th in there for the first batch internally.
Then March 15th for the next ones.

If someone orders a rifle today in 6.5 Creed they're in the 2nd batch of 6.5's being cut. So you're ahead of them but you will be behind the guy on 1/26 who ordered a 6.5

In order to meet a price point that we are offering with this rifle and a list of features and parts that are coming for that price point there are restrictions and methods that need to be followed to keep lost time down. Lost time of swapping reamers back and forth to follow an exact FIFO is cost that would normally be upcharged (substantially) in a custom only shop.
 

j741

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Yes and no.
Yes, we are filling the orders for barrels by the most popular caliber first, then by the order placed within that caliber.
I put a cutoff date of Feb 15th in there for the first batch internally.
Then March 15th for the next ones.

If someone orders a rifle today in 6.5 Creed they're in the 2nd batch of 6.5's being cut. So you're ahead of them but you will be behind the guy on 1/26 who ordered a 6.5

In order to meet a price point that we are offering with this rifle and a list of features and parts that are coming for that price point there are restrictions and methods that need to be followed to keep lost time down. Lost time of swapping reamers back and forth to follow an exact FIFO is cost that would normally be upcharged (substantially) in a custom only shop.
I know we're in the JH thread, but how do the Nucleus barreled actions fit in the schedule? Done around same time as full JH in same caliber?

I have a deposit in on 6.5PRC but am thinking I want to switch to 6 BR and just have an awesome range gun.
 
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bohem

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I know we're in the JH thread, but how do the Nucleus barreled actions fit in the schedule? Done around same time as full JH in same caliber?

I have a deposit in on 6.5PRC but am thinking I want to switch to 6 BR and just have an awesome range gun.
The Nucleus barrels are going to be similar, based on caliber again and following the same production pathway. They change when they are pushed to assembly.
 

ICU22250

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Feb 13, 2017
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So, just for clarification, all I ordered from you Josh is a cut rifled 6 creed barrel. I have my Nucleus action coming from ARC. Will my barrel be cut "during" the Hancock rifle building process when your putting together 6mm rifles? Or will my barrel be cut after you've finished with the first two batches of Hancock rifles? Not trying to be a bother, just wanna see where I stand as far as time frame is concerned.
 

bohem

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If we're cutting 6 Creeds the we're cutting 6 Creeds.
If you're in batch 1 which closed on 2/15 and we're cutting 6 Creeds then your barrel will go into that batch of production.

Same with anyone else. If you ordered XXXXXXX during Batch Y and we're cutting XXXXXXX for Batch Y then your stuff is in that production run.
 

ICU22250

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Feb 13, 2017
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If we're cutting 6 Creeds the we're cutting 6 Creeds.
If you're in batch 1 which closed on 2/15 and we're cutting 6 Creeds then your barrel will go into that batch of production.

Same with anyone else. If you ordered XXXXXXX during Batch Y and we're cutting XXXXXXX for Batch Y then your stuff is in that production run.
Thanks Josh, I think my order was on Jan, 27th so this should be batch 1 hopefully.. Thanks again...
 
Feb 16, 2007
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Speaking of barrels and chamberings....

I ordered a Nucleus barreled action and at checkout only had the option to select the bore size. Will there be a follow up email at some point in the future about the selection?
 

bohem

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Speaking of barrels and chamberings....

I ordered a Nucleus barreled action and at checkout only had the option to select the bore size. Will there be a follow up email at some point in the future about the selection?
If you can please send a message about your order in through the website. It was a glitch that BigCommerce had and we had some orders get listed without chambering. I'm trying to get out to folks where it happened but I haven't gotten all the emails out as I come across them.

The issue is now fixed on the website.
 

man32ahan

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What’s the estimated delivery dates on JH in the different production batches? I know you can’t give an exact date, but a rough estimate would be awesome.


Production 1, production 2 batch, etc. is what I mean. 6.5 creedmoor if that matters.
 

1jonathan1994

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Feb 21, 2018
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How are we to treat the barrel swapping feature

I want to go hunting this weekend so I'll swap in the SAUM barrel and bolt and put my scope to the 6.5SAUM settings and come Monday I'll swap my Creedmore barrel, bolt,and scope settings back in on Monday

or

My barrel is worn out. Time to swap in the spare

Im just curious about if this is like a QD barrel swap for bolt guns or just simply the ability to swap a worn barrel without a gunsmith.
 

j741

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How are we to treat the barrel swapping feature

I want to go hunting this weekend so I'll swap in the SAUM barrel and bolt and put my scope to the 6.5SAUM settings and come Monday I'll swap my Creedmore barrel, bolt,and scope settings back in on Monday

or

My barrel is worn out. Time to swap in the spare

Im just curious about if this is like a QD barrel swap for bolt guns or just simply the ability to swap a worn barrel without a gunsmith.
You can use it however you like, it's your rifle. Some may only swap a worn barrel but I'm sure others, like me, will like ability to have different calibers in same 'rifle'. Though I plan on re-zeroing the scope by shooting after any barrel swap. I wouldn't trust written down settings with all the variables involved.
 
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Aug 6, 2012
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Seems like the rigger does not know ‘never mess with the gunsmith’

You could always take a pic of him, then post it up on facebook...then describe his work habits...
 

**DRB**

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How are we to treat the barrel swapping feature

I want to go hunting this weekend so I'll swap in the SAUM barrel and bolt and put my scope to the 6.5SAUM settings and come Monday I'll swap my Creedmore barrel, bolt,and scope settings back in on Monday

or

My barrel is worn out. Time to swap in the spare

Im just curious about if this is like a QD barrel swap for bolt guns or just simply the ability to swap a worn barrel without a gunsmith.
The John Hancock barrel is threaded into the receiver and is indexed by a shoulder meaning you need an action wrench and a vice to remove the barrel. There is a simplified option of going with the BarLoc, but you would need to buy the nucleus barreled action or add the BarLoc to your JH afterward. Not sure if that's what you ment by "QD"
 

lash

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Sep 28, 2012
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I'll figure that out after I finish digging a grave for the rigging company that no-showed today and then blew me off for the rest of the week...
Wow! It sounds to me like your area is in need of some competition in the rigger department. We are lucky down here in Central Florida that there are options. I've had the crappy riggers here before, but the couple good ones have to be scheduled ahead of time, because...well, because they are good.
 
Feb 16, 2007
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If you can please send a message about your order in through the website. It was a glitch that BigCommerce had and we had some orders get listed without chambering. I'm trying to get out to folks where it happened but I haven't gotten all the emails out as I come across them.

The issue is now fixed on the website.
Thanks, Josh.

Sent an email through the site yesterday and got an immediate reply from Jeremy.
 

bohem

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Wow! It sounds to me like your area is in need of some competition in the rigger department. We are lucky down here in Central Florida that there are options. I've had the crappy riggers here before, but the couple good ones have to be scheduled ahead of time, because...well, because they are good.
Thanks, Josh.

These guys have done 2 other machines for me in the past and done a very good job. Great price, great quality of work... THe price quoted was solid this time but they're really running on my last nerve.

Sent an email through the site yesterday and got an immediate reply from Jeremy.
Jeremy is solid, he's been catching up on comms for us a lot over the last 3 weeks while I deal with this shop move.
 

Codiekfx400

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Jan 29, 2018
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I have been communicating with Jeremy via email. Seems like a great guy. As busy as Josh is it's nice to have a right hand man or should I say left hand in Josh's case. Either way it sounds like my Minuteman 6.5 Creedmoor will be shipped soon. I can't wait!!!!
 

pineoak

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Feb 15, 2017
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Josh,

Is there any fitting involved on the part of PVA in putting the JH together other than barrel & action?

I get that there is a different cost to PVA for building/selling a full rifle btw. Thank you.
 

1jonathan1994

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Feb 21, 2018
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OK i'm debating a second barrel for my 6.5Cr J.H. but am indecisive as usual.
6Creedmore @ 24" vs 6Dasher @ 26", would the Dasher not be within 50fps of the Creedmore due to the different barrel lengths?
Between those this is my take, but I need details checked for errors.

Also, you say 6 Creed is more accurate with factory ammo at 24". But 26" and reloading my own will be just as accurate?

Option 1 custom barrel in 6 Creedmore or 6x47L. 26" and Heavy Palma. Can you go longer than 26"? I'm guessing this would be a Nucleus barrel (How would I tell you to cut it for a J.H.?). I would not be worried about keeping in production class so losing the J.H. lettering is not a biggie.

Option 2 J.H. 6 Norma Dasher. Order 6 Norma Brass. Use a Forster Full Length Risizing die and I wont have to trim the brass. I just want it clarified that all Dasher dies will work whether its 6Norma Dasher or 6Lapua Dasher.
 

jbailey

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Jul 27, 2010
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6Creedmore @ 24" vs 6Dasher @ 26".
Jon,
way over thinking this bro. You are unlikely to be able to shoot the difference between a 6CM w/ a 24" barrel and a 6D w/ 26". Think the bigger issue is availability of supplies - do you want factory ammo? Do you have access to the brass necessary for a 6D? Do you care a lot about barrel life? Both of these cartridges are going to be laser flat and highly precise choices. Maybe if you are doing 600-1000yd benchrest you will see a difference... but beyond that, pick the one with the logistics that fit your situation and move on...
 

1jonathan1994

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Feb 21, 2018
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They are both new calibers to me and I would be reloading to feed it so neither has logistics advantages beyond the Dasher is supposed to be super easy to tune a load for with a very small amount of powder. I just wanted to try one of those low recoil 6mm's so I could follow my own trace but still reach 1200 yds. My 6.5CR AR10 theres no way to spot my own misses. I tried a friends 6.5Cr Axis heavy barrel in a chassis and could not follow my own misses with that either. I figure dropping from 140's down to 105's should help that.
 

jbailey

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Jul 27, 2010
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I just wanted to try one of those low recoil 6mm's so I could follow my own trace but still reach 1200 yds. .
Affirmative. 6mm is what you need. BB gun recoil, big boy ballistics.

If you have or can get the brass for the Dasher, do that cartridge. Tad less recoil (due to slightly lower MV, less powder moving down barrel and a slightly longer barrel), plus the precision a tad better and barrel life better. Give up a little MV but you will not miss it.
 

bohem

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Jon,
way over thinking this bro. You are unlikely to be able to shoot the difference between a 6CM w/ a 24" barrel and a 6D w/ 26". Think the bigger issue is availability of supplies - do you want factory ammo? Do you have access to the brass necessary for a 6D? Do you care a lot about barrel life? Both of these cartridges are going to be laser flat and highly precise choices. Maybe if you are doing 600-1000yd benchrest you will see a difference... but beyond that, pick the one with the logistics that fit your situation and move on...
Well said, @jbailey
 
Apr 22, 2012
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I have a order in for John Hancock rifle and had some things come up and would like to sell rifle or my spot. I spoke with Josh and he said rifle could be done by 2nd part of April I was one of first to put deposit down. The rifle is going be 6mm creedmoor with black chassis. If anyone is interested please message me. Thanks
 

.30kal

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Jun 24, 2011
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They are both new calibers to me and I would be reloading to feed it so neither has logistics advantages beyond the Dasher is supposed to be super easy to tune a load for with a very small amount of powder. I just wanted to try one of those low recoil 6mm's so I could follow my own trace but still reach 1200 yds. My 6.5CR AR10 theres no way to spot my own misses. I tried a friends 6.5Cr Axis heavy barrel in a chassis and could not follow my own misses with that either. I figure dropping from 140's down to 105's should help that.
Don't take this the wrong way, but if you can't spot misses with 6.5 CM AR10 from prone, then you either have the gun set up wrong or you need to work on building a more solid foundation and loading the bipod. Try a JP Silent capture spring, LMOS carrier and an adj gas block (you can tune both to minimize the recoil impulse), which is way cheaper than investing in a new boutique caliber and a rifle. However, if you want a new toy then by all means have at it.
 
Apr 4, 2013
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Does the nucleus recoil lug fit into the standard krg bravo or the large recoil lug variant?
Somewhere in these dozen threads that was answered when I asked. I believe it was answered by Josh and it was yes the standard one fits. I'm guessing you're like me and have a Bravo ready to fit the Nucleus?
 

Codiekfx400

Sergeant of the Hide
Jan 29, 2018
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They are both new calibers to me and I would be reloading to feed it so neither has logistics advantages beyond the Dasher is supposed to be super easy to tune a load for with a very small amount of powder. I just wanted to try one of those low recoil 6mm's so I could follow my own trace but still reach 1200 yds. My 6.5CR AR10 theres no way to spot my own misses. I tried a friends 6.5Cr Axis heavy barrel in a chassis and could not follow my own misses with that either. I figure dropping from 140's down to 105's should help that.
Do you have a muzzle brake on the 6.5 creedmoor your shooting now? If so what brand? With a decent brake spotting your misses with a 6.5 creedmoor is pretty easy.
 

jonesturf

The guy who answers the phone at PVA
Proper fundamentals when employed will certainly help spot misses but one thing I've noticed with the larger caliber AR's is that off of barricades and such it's even more important. Make sure you're square behind the rifle and driving the gun. The reciprocating action in a semi can make things a little jumpy and on top of the recoil can really feel a lot different than a bolt gun and make spotting impacts/misses that much harder.
 

jonesturf

The guy who answers the phone at PVA
Just an update on the Hancock:

We got the Samsung guys in this week to turn on the new lathe. They were scheduled to come back today but now we are getting 12" of snow. One more day with them though and it's a go! Still catching up on some other orders at the moment but that shouldn't take too long. We will be jumping into barrel production shortly and get this show on the road!