New 'production' rifle from PVA - J. Hancock

jbailey

Gunny Sergeant
Jul 27, 2010
1,497
48
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Arlington VA
#1
HEADS UP HIDE---


Patriot Valley Arms (PVA) has a new bolt action rifle at a very attractive price point: just under $2000 for the entire rifle. This allows it to qualify for the PRS category, "Production."

Package includes:
- chambered in 3 or 4 different popular competition cartridges, including 6 Dasher
- the new ARC "Nucleus" action
- Rock Creek barrel
- KRG chassis
- Timney trigger

Now Josh does great work as a gunsmith, in addition to all the other firearms stuff he is involved in (e.g. Warner Flatline bullet designer), so I'm sure all these quality components will come together to be one heck of a fine rifle, sub 0.5moa.

I understand this product announcement has sparked some passionate feelings for and against 'custom build performance' at a 'production price'... I have no strong feelings here. I have known Josh for nearly 10 years and can honestly say his intentions and execution is always in the best interests of fellow shooters.


More info here:
http://patriotvalleyarms.com/john-hancock-bolt-action/

and on Josh's PVA Facebook page.

Here is a less than high quality pic of the new offering from the PVA page...

 

Wyzrd

Harder than a coffin nail
Feb 13, 2017
1,773
18
38
Cheyenne, Wyoming
#5
That pic probably doesn’t do it much justice. I’ll bet that once it’s decked out with a good scope, bipod, and all the other goodies, it’ll be one sexy bitch that’s sure to be a shooter! Are those KRG chassis compatible with their bipod spigot mounts?
 

steve123

Lt. Colonel
Mar 16, 2008
7,060
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Flagstaff, AZ
#7
Yeah, that's pretty crazy what you get right there for the price!

And to think I paid almost as much for a Mausingfield action + aftermarket trigger. By the time I bought the chassis and barrel/barrel work, it was nearly twice that price.
 
Dec 20, 2017
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#8
I understand this product announcement has sparked some passionate feelings for and against 'custom build performance' at a 'production price'... I have no strong feelings here.
It's just a matter of scale of production. The PRS segment is THE hot gun clique. When you make more of the same thing, the price drops. Significantly when you reach that critical point. As witnessed here and the plethora of offerings. And it's only going to get cheaper as the popularity escalates. We're just seeing the beginning. I estimate a solid 5 years of continued growth before we see it plateau. Possible more.
 

jonesturf

Sergeant of the Hide
Jul 3, 2007
329
40
28
Mahoning Valley, PA
#10
That pic probably doesn’t do it much justice. I’ll bet that once it’s decked out with a good scope, bipod, and all the other goodies, it’ll be one sexy bitch that’s sure to be a shooter! Are those KRG chassis compatible with their bipod spigot mounts?
He had a pic on his FB the other day I think with all the accessories from KRG including thew spigot mount. Found it.
26951900_2035385560033560_3216474531912974355_o.jpg
 

demolitionman

Sergeant of the Hide
Feb 26, 2013
981
197
43
Ohio
#11
Looks badass to me for the price! Bravo. nice to see some fairly priced kit that will likely shoot as well as others for 3 times the price.....
 
Feb 16, 2017
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#14
Not much detail on any options, I would like one of these in a light palma profile. I'm trying to build a rifle that I don't mind carrying in the mountains but I need to lay off the Scendero/HV/Med Palma profiles. I like everything about them until I spend the day carrying one.
 

bohem

PVA's HMFIC
Jan 6, 2009
7,107
292
83
Southeast, PA
www.patriotvalleyarms.com
#15
Thank you for the attention to our little entre into the Production Rifle class, gents. This is a massive project for me/PVA. Some have accused me of "slapping together a rifle and now it's in Production" however I can say to the contrary that this rifle is anything but slapped together. Though I can see why, as some of the competition within the production class certainly seems "phoned in" and done without depth of thought or preparation to it.

My vision was to create a rifle for folks that they can purchase, mount a scope and go to the range in every sense of the word. It's actually "competition ready" as opposed to just paying lip service to that phrase. Our competition in the market is going to grow, others are going to do this, but everyone else now has to answer "Is it going to outshoot the John Hancock" and "Are your barrels better than the John Hancock"

We put every dollar we possibly could into the quality of parts and the quality of manufacturing on this. So much so that almost anything not regulated by the rules is cut out so that we can put more $$ value into the rifle. That means no magazine, no muzzle brake, special paint. All that can be added and still maintain the rule book. Instead we are using the best barrel blanks in the production market right now. Believe me, I spent thousands on barrel blanks all year long from several suppliers and then when we had it down to Rock Creek we STILL worked with them to create a barrel that is better than any other OEM barrel blank that they've produced for any of our competitors. Our closest competitor in that aspect doesn't put a lapped blank on the rifle. Not even machine lapped, just not at all lapped. By comparison ours are getting lapped and normalized twice. That costs money, the cost of the hand lapping could pay for an AICS magazine. But the AICS magazine isn't regulated by the rules so we put the dollars into the barrel where it needs to be for performance.

The new line of button rifled Savage prefits that was announced here last month by @padom is the same specification barrel that we are using on the John Hancock. It's not an accident that the barrels for Savage, Remage, etc prefits are coming out. We have not entered the market before because the level of quality in OEM barrels simply wasn't up to our standards to put our name on it. The close relationship with Rock Creek has afforded us an avenue to create a championship winning OEM rifle barrel. The barrel I used to win 2 MDSS matches and the MDSS Season Finale was this spec barrel. @padom is getting group sizes in the 0.2/0.3 range with the barrel I asked him to wring out for me. His SD's over 30 rounds are 4-5! That's the quality we put into the chambering work and the quality that Rock Creek puts into their rifle barrel work. It's not an accident that we use their cut rifled barrels and it's no accident that their OEM barrels are so damn good. They don't make trash and they stand behind everything.

The same with the receiver, the stock and the trigger. I wanted to work with American companies to bring a product to market that every piece for each vendor would be proud to say "We are involved in that." I have great respect for the folks at Timney Triggers, Kinetic Research Group and American Rifle Company. Ted made me the action that I've wanted for years. He stepped up, he bet a big investment to make this happen and he listened and provided a unique solution in many ways. The commitment each of the companies has put forth is real and it's our pleasure to work with them on this rifle.

I've been asked, why the name? Here's what I put out in our press release on the website:


The name was chosen due the significance of his role in the American Revolution and his actions leading to signing the Declaration of Independence.

There is a popular story that most of us were probably taught in history class that Mr. Hancock signed the DoI so prominently such that "King George would be able to read it without his spectacles." Historians have managed to disprove the story and it's just an urban legend although a darn good one.

We chose the name for the rifle because of Mr. Hancock's actions against the tyranny levied against the American Colonies in the 1760's. He was one of the wealthiest men in the American Colonies at the time and by all conventional thinking he could have profited and kept to himself by towing the line for the British Crown. Yet when they levied taxes and began searching ships without warrants he stood his ground in the face of unlawful search and unjust prosecution. (Reference The Townsend Acts and the Liberty Affair). He pledged large sums of personal fortune towards supporting the revolution and the rebellion. His financial support was a not insignificant piece of what kept the rebellion alive in the years leading to the Boston Tea Party, the Continental Congress, and eventually our War of Independence.

He is largely known today for being the man with the flamboyant signature but without him we may have a quite different history as a country. He stood for what he thought was the right thing to do, he stood as an American.

Patriot Valley Arms is a proudly American company with a 100% American rifle. We are located in the Brandywine Valley in southeast Pennsylvania. Shortly our new facility will be located on the Brandywine itself, not far from one of the more important battles in the American Revolution. Mr. Hancock inspires us to challenge the establishment. It is our privilege to honor his legacy in this way.


What barrel profile is that.

It’s ugly lol. I have no idea why but the step down from the chamber doesn’t look right.
It's probably like a parent looking at a kid and thinking "my child isn't ugly..." but I have to admit, that picture is not flattering. It's also snapped from a cell phone in 17F snow just outside my shop door while I'm shivering so I could show a mockup photo of the rifle for folks that are not familiar with what it would look like.

That is a medium palma contour, normally the contour is buried down inside a stock or a taller wall of a chassis but that's the way it goes on a Bravo. Keep in mind that there is also no scope, rings, etc tacked on that rifle in the photo. If you pull that stuff off anything else it is going to look similar.

That pic probably doesn’t do it much justice. I’ll bet that once it’s decked out with a good scope, bipod, and all the other goodies, it’ll be one sexy bitch that’s sure to be a shooter! Are those KRG chassis compatible with their bipod spigot mounts?
Thanks, it's not a great pic, it's just a mock up and it has been darn cold here...
The KRG Bravo takes their spigot mounts for ARCA and PIC rail attachments. It also comes with MLok slots molded into the chassis skins and it has the option of getting an ARCA mount plate for ARCA accessories. The ARCA mount plate, I am told, kicks it from Production Class.

Not much detail on any options, I would like one of these in a light palma profile. I'm trying to build a rifle that I don't mind carrying in the mountains but I need to lay off the Scendero/HV/Med Palma profiles. I like everything about them until I spend the day carrying one.
I don't mean this to come across as obstinate, so please bear with me as I'll explain as much as I can why the options are limited in the manner shown.

The options are fixed out of necessity for making this meet the rules of a production class rifle. You can get a barreled action from us using the same action, just not branded as a John Hancock. We've turned down probably 20-25 people that want custom calibers, custom barrel lengths, let's just change the stock, but but but.... sorry. This is a production rifle and I must adhere to the standards as agreed upon with the PRS Rules Committee. We at PVA are not going to deviate from that agreement and jeopardize the eligibility of the entire project.

There will not be any JHR branded anything out there that is not a fully production class legal setup when it leaves from us. All barrels for OEM eligibility will be marked as explained above, there will not be any NUCLEUS receivers that are configured with the stock, barrel, etc such that it could be confused for an OEM class rifle. The JHR model rifle is ONLY setup for the specific options because it must adhere to the rules. Owners are free to do whatever they want to them but the rules are very specific that modification from factory configuration produces ineligiblity. Just like buying a Rem 700 5R and having the muzzle threaded or putting an aftermarket barrel on it, the rifle is no longer considered a production rifle.

Alternately, as some folks have already elected to do, they are buying the complete John Hancock and ordering non-OEM replacement barrels to get exactly the barrel and caliber they want for use outside of Production Class. The Hancock barrels for OEM replacement are being engraved "The John Hancock" on them to delineate their eligibility for use in PRS Production competition.

We can certainly make you an LP barrel to go on it in any caliber and length you want but you won't be able to use it in Production class.

We will be making NUCLEUS barrels that will fit directly onto the JHR but they will be engraved differently and will not be eligible for the Production Class. In fact we've already sold about 3 dozen of them, but they're clearly not going to be allowed within the OEM replacement protocols.
 

padom

SuperMod
Staff member
Mar 13, 2013
6,008
206
63
Southeastern, Pennsylvania
#16
I've been testing the new PVA Rock Creek barrels being used on the JHR for about a month now in 6.5x47L. They flat out shoot and are producing the same SD's as my PVA Rock Creek cut rifled barrels. I've tested many of the competitions button barrels and none have produced the SD's these barrels are. Guaranteed sub 0.5moa with many groups in the .2's and .3's... and all this testing has taken place in sub 20F temps over the past month. I'm seeing 30rd strings over the Labradar with SD's sub 5!!!
 
Feb 16, 2017
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#18
I fully understand the need to standardize it makes sense in both that you're trying to meet a price point and meet the rules requirements. I believe the value offered in the package is currently unmatched in the industry. You put the money is where it needs to be, in the barrel.

Personally it has generated enough interest in me that I'm ready to put down a deposit on this or on a nucleus barreled action. Just a few questions, what is the finished barrel length, what's the barrel twist in 6 creedmoor and what is the weight of the bare rifle?
 

bohem

PVA's HMFIC
Jan 6, 2009
7,107
292
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Southeast, PA
www.patriotvalleyarms.com
#19
I fully understand the need to standardize it makes sense in both that you're trying to meet a price point and meet the rules requirements. I believe the value offered in the package is currently unmatched in the industry. You put the money is where it needs to be, in the barrel.

Personally it has generated enough interest in me that I'm ready to put down a deposit on this or on a nucleus barreled action. Just a few questions, what is the finished barrel length, what's the barrel twist in 6 creedmoor and what is the weight of the bare rifle?
The 6mm CM will be a 7 twist barrel and the rifle weighs about 11lbs but I'll have a final answer for guys with the full production JH action, trigger etc in hand. The 6mm Creed is 24" long and we tuned the chamber to hammer the factory match ammo out there for it.
 
Likes: ItsMmmike
Jan 26, 2009
418
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Georgia
#20
The 6mm CM will be a 7 twist barrel and the rifle weighs about 11lbs but I'll have a final answer for guys with the full production JH action, trigger etc in hand. The 6mm Creed is 24" long and we tuned the chamber to hammer the factory match ammo out there for it.
You offer the other 6mm and the 6.5 creed in 26” barrels why the 6mm creed in a 24 instead of a 26?
 
Mar 16, 2017
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#21
Any chance of a 2 stage trigger option in the future?

Awesome job either way. I am trying to get a guy in Canada to bring them in.
 

bohem

PVA's HMFIC
Jan 6, 2009
7,107
292
83
Southeast, PA
www.patriotvalleyarms.com
#22
You offer the other 6mm and the 6.5 creed in 26” barrels why the 6mm creed in a 24 instead of a 26?
Cuz the 6mm Creed factory ammo shoots a shitton better in a 24" barrel than a 26" barrel. For a handloader it doesn't matter but for a guy shooting factory ammo it is the difference between bugholes and "meh"

Any chance of a 2 stage trigger option in the future?

Awesome job either way. I am trying to get a guy in Canada to bring them in.
Doubtful unless Timney offers one that works in the price point of the rifle and I don't see that coming because I can't get them to make a LH calvin elite 2 stage for several years now.

I emailed the guy back from CAN. If he is going to import them that's fine with me but I can't offer breaks on pricing. There's no dealer program in the US and there is really no dealer program that includes export/import costs so the rifle is inevitably going to be selling over MSRP outside the US if someone exports it.
 
Apr 4, 2013
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#23
I just updated the caliber offerings because I got confirmation of a few details that I was holding back on.

We will be offering 6.5mm SAUM as a chambering for this rifle.
It is now up on the website.
http://patriotvalleyarms.com/deposit-john-hancock-bolt-action/
I've got a question for you. I ordered one of your PVA barrels and the Nucleus and I already have a Bravo stock that I'm putting it in. Are you having to use the Bravo with the bigger lug channel or the standard size? Mine is the standard R700 size and I'm wondering if I need to get the bigger one.
Thanks, I'm very excited to get this together.
 

bohem

PVA's HMFIC
Jan 6, 2009
7,107
292
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Southeast, PA
www.patriotvalleyarms.com
#24
I've got a question for you. I ordered one of your PVA barrels and the Nucleus and I already have a Bravo stock that I'm putting it in. Are you having to use the Bravo with the bigger lug channel or the standard size? Mine is the standard R700 size and I'm wondering if I need to get the bigger one.
Thanks, I'm very excited to get this together.
We are using the standard size lug pocket version.
 
Feb 16, 2017
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#26
24" barrel works for me, by the time you hang a brake or a suppressor off of a 26" barrel the thing is a mile long. Can DTACs be loaded mag length with your chamber?
 

ajv35XX

Random User
Dec 9, 2013
349
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#28
This sounds like a solid winner. Wish I had never sold the last rifle Josh built me, but as soon as I have all my pennies and dimes saved up I will be picking one of these up.
 

adamjma

I can finally see grass under the snow!
Feb 13, 2017
68
4
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Canada
#31
Josh, how are you fitting the LH John Hancock into the Bravo Chassis as it is RH only from the factory. Presumably you are doing the machine work to the chassis? I seem to recall KRG stating it was a relatively simple bit of work, but just want confirmation.

Thanks!
 

diverdon

Online Training Member
Dec 21, 2011
2,490
506
113
WNY
#33
He has got "223 Rem Trainer Package" for $749.95 listed under the options... Don't know what that option is all about, but perhaps you can get that instead of the bigger cartridges....
I'm reading that as an extra barrel and bolt face so you can flippy flop between your completion caliber and your .223. I'm not looking for anything like that right now. I just want a nice, reliable, simple, accurate .223.

If ever I compete it is unlikely that it will be with this rifle, I am building three of these as family plinkers and for varmint hunting. Looking at the PVA barrel group buy it seems like the .223 will be available someday but not necessarly right away and not under the GB price. I would have been willing to try them, but I also emailed Frank at Bartlien for a quote, of course he will be a little higher but they will be cut Bartlien's so they may be very nice.

I have also asked John Huber to quote me three triggers. I have not really determined what chassis a lot of options.
 
May 15, 2011
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#35
Josh, how are you fitting the LH John Hancock into the Bravo Chassis as it is RH only from the factory. Presumably you are doing the machine work to the chassis? I seem to recall KRG stating it was a relatively simple bit of work, but just want confirmation.

Thanks!
Curious as well :)
 
Feb 16, 2017
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#37
As great as this deal is for a rifle, I think I'm going to have to go with the other great deal Josh is offering on the Nucleus barreled action with a BarLoc. My problem is that I've been planning this build for awhile so I already have a Bravo chassis and a calvin elite 2 stage in the safe. I was about to buy a Mausingfield but the Nucleus action is perfect for what I want it for. The 3 lug is something I really want to try also.

So Josh, my question is can I get the Nucleus barreled action with the barloc with pretty much the 6 creedmoor barrel you're chambering in the John Hancock? It seems there are a lot of different versions of the BarLoc including for shouldered (diameter I'm sure) barrels. When I look at the website it only offers the barrel in 7.5 twist which I think is probably fine stabilizing the 115 DTAC at my altitude, but you said you're offering a 7 twist in the complete rifle which would give just a little margin of security.

Thanks for your attention to this thread. I hope you don't mind posting about the barreled action option on the complete rifle thread, but I bet other people are in the same boat I am, and it seems like something worth considering.
 

bohem

PVA's HMFIC
Jan 6, 2009
7,107
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#38
It is too bad he is not offering it in .223.
Not yet, that's coming and I will be shortly but I'm finishing up some details on the exact chamber that I want to use so that it handles a couple of the better 75 and 77 grain factory ammo for folks that don't reload.


Josh, how are you fitting the LH John Hancock into the Bravo Chassis as it is RH only from the factory. Presumably you are doing the machine work to the chassis? I seem to recall KRG stating it was a relatively simple bit of work, but just want confirmation.

Thanks!
Yes we are and I'm in the midst of building a fixture to cut the skin and the skeleton in the Haas mill. The lefty orders are being built as soon as I have this bullet proof. Myself being a lefty and needing a lefty rifle for this season I am making it a priority to get handled.


You can get the PVA Nucleus Barreled Action in 223...install Timney 510 and toss it in the stock/chassis of your choice and there you are...
Indeed you can do that, it won't be a John Hancock and it won't be legal in Production Class but it will be an immediate pathway to a lefty rifle that gives you a lot more choices of stocks for those so inclined.


What is the weight on the rifle?
Appx 11lb


As great as this deal is for a rifle, I think I'm going to have to go with the other great deal Josh is offering on the Nucleus barreled action with a BarLoc. My problem is that I've been planning this build for awhile so I already have a Bravo chassis and a calvin elite 2 stage in the safe. I was about to buy a Mausingfield but the Nucleus action is perfect for what I want it for. The 3 lug is something I really want to try also.

So Josh, my question is can I get the Nucleus barreled action with the barloc with pretty much the 6 creedmoor barrel you're chambering in the John Hancock? It seems there are a lot of different versions of the BarLoc including for shouldered (diameter I'm sure) barrels. When I look at the website it only offers the barrel in 7.5 twist which I think is probably fine stabilizing the 115 DTAC at my altitude, but you said you're offering a 7 twist in the complete rifle which would give just a little margin of security.

Thanks for your attention to this thread. I hope you don't mind posting about the barreled action option on the complete rifle thread, but I bet other people are in the same boat I am, and it seems like something worth considering.
I shot my first 1000 DTACs from a 1:8 twist Hawk Hill out of a Dasher at 2910fps past 1200yd and the DA's where I live rarely break 3000ft. Most of the shooting I did with it was sub 2000ft DA.

The reason that a 7.5 twist is available is that it comes in only a cut rifled version. Rock Creek cannot do a 7.5 twist button OEM barrel but we have the 7 twist button OEM barrel crushing with factory Hornady as well as reloads in the various pipsqueak rounds (BR, Dasher that I love).

Long answer short, the 7tw doesn't buy you anything that the 7.5 doesn't with the exception of cost that the 7.5 requires because it's a more expensive barrel option.
 

bohem

PVA's HMFIC
Jan 6, 2009
7,107
292
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www.patriotvalleyarms.com
#39
OK gents, I'm signing off to get everything packed for SHOT. I leave at 0500

Radio silence from me isn't that I'm ignoring the discussion but SHOT is typically busy for me and I think this year might be even more so... at least I hope so anywya.

One last plug.

Today the ELR Central World Record event was held just outside Vegas.
The competition was won by a gentleman, Nate Statler I believe, and he went 3/3 at a mile and 3/3 at 2052yd. That is an incredible feat.
The Warner Tool Flatlines in 37 caliber, 361 grain were his bullet of choice.

Congrats to him and congratulations to Warner Tool for the best bullets in the world.
 
May 15, 2011
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#40
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Yes we are and I'm in the midst of building a fixture to cut the skin and the skeleton in the Haas mill. The lefty orders are being built as soon as I have this bullet proof. Myself being a lefty and needing a lefty rifle for this season I am making it a priority to get handled.

Lol. You just fucked my world up. Thanks :unsure:
 
Jul 6, 2004
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#41
I can’t wait for this rifle. I have personally shot josh’s 6br with one of these barrels and let me tell you they flat out shoot. Anyone shooting production without one of these rifles will be severely behind the 8 ball
 
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