New kahles 525

BangBangBlatBlat

Gunny Sergeant
Jun 7, 2012
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#15
I don't think I'm trading in my 6-24 for the littlest bit of power on the top end.

I did get to finger the 318i this weekend and it really is badass. The elevation turret is bigger, and they put more mils on it. It's great across the whole mag range.

But having 15 mils per rev (it might be a little less) isn't a huge selling point. I dont think I ever go more than 10 mils for all except super long shots. I suspect this scope is a replacement for the 624i.

I think I'd rather have more magnification on the top end. A 7-35x that doesn't tunnel would be badass. The NF one is pretty sweet as well.
 
Jul 7, 2005
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#16
Would really like to see one of these scopes up close & personal, but have a hard time contemplating selling off the three K624i AMR (two Gen 3s, one Gen 1) scopes I've got mounted on my Bighorn rifles. At my age (66 & counting), it's harder to get excited about the latest/greatest stuff when what you've got makes you happy. Have thought about selling the remaining Gen 2 AMR in order to be able to afford upgrading to another Gen 3 w/SKMR3 reticle, but am fairly sure that I'd want to do the same with the two Gen 3 AMRs afterwards - so am likely to leave well enough alone...famous last words, lol.
 
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TJC

Full Member
May 24, 2010
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#19
“there are two further developments with the MSR2/Ki and the Mil4+.”

What exactly ?
 

wjm308

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Nov 30, 2012
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#22
I knew they were going to come out with the K525i, but didn't think it would be so soon since nothing was mentioned at SHOT. Awesome SKMR reticles and also the new MSR2, Twist Guard locking windage, parallax down to 22yds (from 50), greater FOV than the K624i, over 1" shorter and less than 1oz heavier! Wow, Kahles did their homework, the BIGGEST question will be did they control CA to at least the level of Schmidt.; I absolutely loved my K624i but the biggest issue I had was the bad control of CA as there is heavy fringing in the Gen III model, really hoping that Kahles paid attention to this and improved upon their optical formula to fix the issue. With the Minox ZP5 already killing it in this area and for less money and the new ZCO 5-27x56 promising to be amazing (we still have to wait for these to get into competent hands) Kahles did well by making their K525i shorter than both and slightly lighter, I can see that appealing, but again, did they correct CA. Here's the specs compared to the two aforementioned scopes (Highlighted in green are the improvements over the K624i):

1520304597737.png
 

koshkin

Dark Lord Of Optics
Feb 22, 2006
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Los Angeles
www.opticsthoughts.com
#23
One interesting thing is that wide FOV was always something Kahles really pursued, but the K525 does not seem to do that. I am sure it is going to be a competent design, but the proof is in the pudding. We'll see how it does when it is out in the wild.

ILya
 
Feb 14, 2017
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DC Area, MD
#25
One interesting thing is that wide FOV was always something Kahles really pursued, but the K525 does not seem to do that. I am sure it is going to be a competent design, but the proof is in the pudding. We'll see how it does when it is out in the wild.

ILya
Noticed that as well.
 

wjm308

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#26
One interesting thing is that wide FOV was always something Kahles really pursued, but the K525 does not seem to do that. I am sure it is going to be a competent design, but the proof is in the pudding. We'll see how it does when it is out in the wild.

ILya
Maybe it's because of the shorter design? I was hoping for something near the Minox/TT but it's still better than the K624i and better than Schmidt and NF in that regard.
 

EDMJustin

Canadian Eh
Apr 24, 2017
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#29
Looking forward to seeing some hands on reviews for this scope. Definitely made it on the list for next scope to look at for my next build.
 

bikeracer

Formerly Robb57
Aug 10, 2011
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#30
Good for Kahles but I wish MHSA was still carrying them - that's where I bought 3 of my 624s - which have performed flawlessly and won't be replaced anytime soon.
 
Likes: MElank
Apr 24, 2017
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Hoover, Alabama
#34
Are Kahles scopes still being shipped to Austria for warranty service or is Swarovski USA managing most issues?
When I was looking at getting a K624i I talked with several places that sold Kahles and the answer I got every single time was that there is a repair facility in Rhode Island that could repair certain problems. If the Rhode Island facility could not repair it then it would be shipped back to Austria.

The issue I had was I could not get a straight answer on what certain issues the Rhode Island facility could fix.
 
Jul 7, 2005
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#35
None of the Gen 2 or Gen 3 K624i scopes I've owned (total of six over the years) had enough CA to bother me at all. There's some slight purple fringing in certain conditions, but it's nowhere near as much or as bad as that of my Bushnell 3.2-21x50 ERS or a couple of Weaver's big 6-30x56 scopes bought during a clearance sale from Midway years ago. Shot from 1000yds last Sunday with the Bushnell & Weaver, but didn't have a rifle with a Kahles along for comparison. I still have that 'aha' moment every time I take that first look through one of the Kahles scopes on the firing line - don't get them out as often as I do the other rifles, unless I'm going to a match.

As far as any perceived advantage to the free-wheeling windage knob of the new K525i - I've always thought Kahles nailed it with the current turret knob design. The Gen 2s had too smooth a knob to worry about catching & accidentally moving either elevation or windage knobs; even with the Gen 3's scalloped knobs, the detents are so distinct that I've never had a knob move while pulling the rifle out of a drag bag or in any other situation. I absolutely love the combination of detent clicks & spacing on the K624i's turrets - it's never been an issue to get one click when that's all I want to put on or take off, which is more than I can say with any of the Premier or S&B scopes I've handled. And the eyebox on the K624s is very forgiving. While I do prefer the SKMR3 reticle to the AMRs of my Kahles, it's not enough of an issue to make it worth the hassle of selling & replacing the three AMRs I have,
 
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wjm308

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#36
None of the Gen 2 or Gen 3 K624i scopes I've owned (total of six over the years) had enough CA to bother me at all. There's some slight purple fringing in certain conditions, but it's nowhere near as much or as bad as that of my Bushnell 3.2-21x50 ERS
It could be that you don't shoot in situations where it would be more apparent, or your eyes naturally don't see it. The Schmidt's I've had exhibit slight CA fringing, the March handles it better, the AMG even better and the Premier and Minox ZP5 the best. These are other scopes I've had within the price range of the Kahles and they all exhibited better control over CA than the Kahles. CA is an aberration that can be controlled by the optical formula (how they design the scope). The K624i wasn't horrible, but it was definitely more than other scopes within its "class", that is why I'm hoping the K525i which has a completely new optical formula will have addressed this issue. If the K525i is at least on par with Schmidt & Bender I would be thrilled, if it's not then that'll be disappointing especially with all the iterations of the K624i and now a complete redesign for the K525i. It's not that the scope won't perform, but it's like buying a high end camera lens, you expect it to be better than the lower end models in all regard.

1520369867644.png
 

kthomas

Sergeant
Jun 17, 2009
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#38
Honest question - has anyone EVER missed a target because of CA?

I have 3 Khales K624's. I've never noticed CA in any of them. Perhaps CA exists in my scopes and I have never noticed it - certainly a possibility.

I only really care about things that will make a difference on target. I think the bickering about CA on this site is asinine.
 
Apr 24, 2017
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Hoover, Alabama
#40
Honest question - has anyone EVER missed a target because of CA?

I have 3 Khales K624's. I've never noticed CA in any of them. Perhaps CA exists in my scopes and I have never noticed it - certainly a possibility.

I only really care about things that will make a difference on target. I think the bickering about CA on this site is asinine.
That goes back to the Burris XTRII glass debacle, your not going to miss a target because of the glass.

I never noticed CA in my T5Xi until I compared it to other optics. Even then I never noticed it while I was shooting stages and being timed. If I was glassing targets, watching mirage, trying to figure out wind down range I certainly noticed the CA.

I think the issue is that it handles it the worst out of all the scopes at that price point, and scopes at lesser price points handle it better.
 

5RWill

Optics Fiend
Oct 15, 2009
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#41
Honest question - has anyone EVER missed a target because of CA?

I have 3 Khales K624's. I've never noticed CA in any of them. Perhaps CA exists in my scopes and I have never noticed it - certainly a possibility.

I only really care about things that will make a difference on target. I think the bickering about CA on this site is asinine.
No it wont cause you to miss a target. It's really just a matter of preference and how someone would like to spend their money. Unless you work or shoot for Kahles does it really irritate you that much?

As Bill already noted some do not really notice it if at all. Hell some never give it two thoughts despite it being there. I absolutely loathe it. I have a good friend of mine who now shoots for Kahles who had an HDMR II he recently got during a sale. He had no idea what CA was, i sent him one of Bill's examples. He then noted he couldn't "unsee" it lol. It's not some huge detriment to the functionality of the scope it's just a preference and for me personally $2500 and up i expect little to none.
 
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kthomas

Sergeant
Jun 17, 2009
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#44
I don't shoot or work for Khales. There are just many other qualities in a scope which actually make a difference. CA is purely cosmetic, and seems to be a pretty benign thing to rate a scope on.

But hey, it's your money. And in the end, there are a lot of great scopes to spend your money on. Hard to pick a loser once you are spending this type of money.
 

wjm308

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Nov 30, 2012
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#46
Honest question - has anyone EVER missed a target because of CA?
If anyone ever blamed CA for missing a shot they are mistaken, it is an optical aberration and has nothing to do with whether or not you can get a proper POA.

I have 3 Khales K624's. I've never noticed CA in any of them. Perhaps CA exists in my scopes and I have never noticed it - certainly a possibility.
Then I recommend that you don't try to find it, I will be the first to admit that I wish it didn't bother me, but it does, especially since I live at elevation and frequently get snow and when you see that purple fringing all over the place while looking through the scope, well... it bugs me, and when I pay that much money for a scope, I expect it to be mechanically and optically on par with other scopes in its class, this includes clarity, contrast, resolution, depth and yes, CA.

I only really care about things that will make a difference on target.
That is subjective to what your target is. If you're only shooting daytime steel then your'e only going to care about specific features that are suited to these conditions; however, if you also care about hunting in low light then that opens other doors, larger objective which draws more light (larger exit pupil at given magnifications), better resolution, contrast and color which will help you see your hidden prey in the thick stuff and so forth.

I think the bickering about CA on this site is asinine.
That's okay, like my dad used to tell me "you're entitled to your own wrong opinion." :D Seriously though, you call it bickering because it doesn't bother you, is there anything that does bother you about any other scope and do you ever bring it up on the forum? I'm not telling anyone not to buy a Kahles, I've praised Kahles in many areas and think they are amazing scopes, but I replaced the Kahles with the AMG because I thought the AMG performed very close optically and mechanically but stomped the Kahles in regard to CA. CA bothers me, it doesn't bother you, but the fact that almost every other scope in its class outperforms it when it comes to CA does raise a flag (for me). The reason I "bicker" as you call it is because manufacturers watch these forums and they take note and I want to identify certain shortcomings so they can be addressed in future models. In the meantime plenty of shooters will continue to use the K624i to great success.
 

bikeracer

Formerly Robb57
Aug 10, 2011
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#47
Addressing the MHSA question re Kahles; it has something to do with a change in distribution (moving to Swarovski) and the buy-in commitment increase. Nothing to do with quality or dependability.

I like my Kahles because they track extremely well, the eye box is easier to get behind than the other top name scopes at high power, the light gathering is expectional and I like the turrets and the ergos. My son (not me of course) has also beaten the snot out of his (mine, actually but I bought a rifle and scope so we could shoot together) and it still works like new. I mean like he's knocked the rifle over twice on concrete and stone surfaces hard enough to scuff the scope - no issues. Re CA - I don't see any - I don't know why. I shoot paper, and steel at distances as far as a mile (Frank was spotting) here in Colorado, Wyoming and NM. Most of my steel target shooting is between 500-1000 and the Kahles is superb.
 
Likes: Basher
Jul 7, 2005
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#49
Bill, I appreciate your explanations, and the time you took to spell them out. Can't say that I disagree with your opinions, just glad whatever CA exists in my K624i scopes doesn't have much of an effect on my shooting - or my enjoyment of some very fine Austrian scopes. If nothing else, this discussion is going to lead to getting out some of my old Nikon cameras & lenses & compare them to some of the scopes I'm currently using.

Would also like to be able to compare a Minox ZP5 to the Kahles - have heard too many good things about the optical quality of that model to ignore. However, it's tough to imagine another scope with better ergonomics than the K624i; combine those features (and the fact that I've gotten used to them & now take 'em for granted) with the excellent eyebox & tracking, and aside from hitting some sort of major lottery jackpot, I'm most likely going to stick with what I know makes me happy & helps me hit what I'm aiming at.