Need Advice for 6.5 Grendel pistol barrel

onthex

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I want to build an AR15 6.5 Grendel pistol for deer hunting out to 300 yards, and I am looking for the appropriate barrel. I would prefer 14+ inches. Any suggestions?
 

onthex

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Seriously?

Yes. One of the states that I deer hunt in has an extended season that allows pistols, but not shotguns or rifles. To me a 6.5 Grendel pistol makes sense to take advantage of this. Am I a dumbass for considering this?
Maybe think this one through a bit more.
Ok. Please give me some direction considering my reason for wanting to do this. Thanks.
 

bigjake83

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Ok. Please give me some direction considering my reason for wanting to do this. Thanks.
If the state that you're hunting in does actually allow hunting deer with pistols then I guess this would be a more practical solution due to the fact you're essentially trying to build and SBR behind the nomenclature of a AR Pistol. A 14.5" 6.5G "pistol" would be rather effective up to 300 yards indeed.

Recommendations...

https://www.shopalexanderarms.com/DIY_Parts_Components-6_5_Grendel_11_Barrel_1.html

Lilja might also make you a shorty.
 

onthex

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If the state that you're hunting in does actually allow hunting deer with pistols then I guess this would be a more practical solution due to the fact you're essentially trying to build and SBR behind the nomenclature of a AR Pistol. A 14.5" 6.5G "pistol" would be rather effective up to 300 yards indeed.

Recommendations...

https://www.shopalexanderarms.com/DIY_Parts_Components-6_5_Grendel_11_Barrel_1.html

Lilja might also make you a shorty.
Exactly. It is called the "Alternative Methods" season, and center-fire, auto-loading pistols are legal as long as you do not use a magazine with over a 10 round capacity. I have looked at the AA 11.5 inch barrel as well as the Ballistic Advantage 12.5 in the Hanson profile. I would like to have something longer if possible to extend my practical range to ~300 yards. From the ballistics charts based on barrel length that I have studied it appears that 14+ would be best, but I can't find any in that length.
 

SupressYourself

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So you basically want to build a rifle, but call it a pistol so you can use it in a special hunting season that is intended for non-rifles? I don't think we need to derail this thread into an ethics debate, but it smells a bit off to me.
 

bigjake83

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So you basically want to build a rifle, but call it a pistol so you can use it in a special hunting season that is intended for non-rifles? I don't think we need to derail this thread into an ethics debate, but it smells a bit off to me.
As I agree with the above statement I think this also falls under "Hate the Game not the Player"
 

Rlb40x

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I just finished one with a 12.5 Ballistic advantage and it surprised me on accuracy.
Well under an inch with federal 90s and about 1inch with hornady black and a 1-8 NF scope.
For a $225 barrel I was impressed.
 

Winny94

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So you basically want to build a rifle, but call it a pistol so you can use it in a special hunting season that is intended for non-rifles? I don't think we need to derail this thread into an ethics debate, but it smells a bit off to me.
why? hes following the rules. Blame the ATF for asinine rules and definitions.
 

onthex

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So you basically want to build a rifle, but call it a pistol so you can use it in a special hunting season that is intended for non-rifles? I don't think we need to derail this thread into an ethics debate, but it smells a bit off to me.
Actually, when the season was drafted this was addressed in the public meetings. The dept of conservation recognized that there would be AR pistols in use during this season, and chose not to restrict them. Instead they put in the 10 round mag rule to keep guys out of the woods with AR's outfitted with drum mags. The season is also open to muzzle loading rifles, so it is not a true non-rifle season. I am not sure of the reasoning behind all of this, but like @bigjake83 said, I am just playing the game, I didn't create it or make up the rules! :cool:
 

SupressYourself

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Do what you want within the rules / laws. I wouldn't hold it against anyone. I just personally wouldn't feel right about it as is seems counter to (what seems to be) the intentions of the special season.
 

Winny94

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Do what you want within the rules / laws. I wouldn't hold it against anyone. I just personally wouldn't feel right about it as is seems counter to (what seems to be) the intentions of the special season.
How? He already said that is exact config was discussed w/ the DNR and still got signed off on.
 

SupressYourself

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How? He already said that is exact config was discussed w/ the DNR and still got signed off on.
And that's fine, but why not just allow "rifles" then? It seems like the point of the season is to allow additional hunting, but to require more "primitive" weapons so as to increase the challenge. If you're using a 14-18" Grendel AR, hoping to shoot to 300 yards, you're not really increasing the challenge.
I'm not implying he's doing anything against the rules. It just seems "off" to me. That's just my opinion. No one needs to give two shits about it. ;)
 

stilesg57

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I just finished one with a 12.5 Ballistic advantage and it surprised me on accuracy.
Well under an inch with federal 90s and about 1inch with hornady black and a 1-8 NF scope.
For a $225 barrel I was impressed.
Ballistic Advantage bbls have a way of doing that.

I just got the email notice that their 18” fluted SPR is back in stock. Want to upgrade my 3gun, just don’t NEED to... 😁
 

newguy2k3v2

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If it's going to be a "pistol" anyway why not just find a 14.5 or even 16"? Are there max barrel length restrictions to keep someone from just putting a pistol brace on a regular ar?
Fwiw my 11.5 lilja gives about 2250fps with factory Hornady black and 123 sst.

It's all just arbitrary rules. More power to you for finding the loopholes. The .gov usually exploits every loophole they can when they want to screw citizens over anyway.
 

Lthrt

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I’m digging this thread and both sides of the argument, and yes, this could be called unethical, or cheating, or pushing the rules to the limit - whatever. But let’s be clear about so-called “primitive” hunting seasons. They vary state to state. My Savage MLII uses smokeless (AA4577) powder, with Barnes copper solids, under a variable power scope. I’ve seen other dudes at my local range, banging steel beyond 300 with these Savage “muzzleloaders.” Never shot mine past 225. When I’m hunting, I also carry a laser rangefinder, a cell phone, and get there in a RAM 1500 truck that has satellite radio (even though this here caveman is too cheap to pay the monthly fees). The only thing primitive is that it fires only once before taking me a few minutes to reload when I miss, or when I’d like to shoot more than one deer. Hey Tennessee dude, buy a 12.5” Faxon barrel. My Grendel pistol cloverleafs shot groups at 100. Its just a fun gun, not legal for shooting anything here except coyotes.
 
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onthex

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And that's fine, but why not just allow "rifles" then? It seems like the point of the season is to allow additional hunting, but to require more "primitive" weapons so as to increase the challenge. If you're using a 14-18" Grendel AR, hoping to shoot to 300 yards, you're not really increasing the challenge.
I'm not implying he's doing anything against the rules. It just seems "off" to me. That's just my opinion. No one needs to give two shits about it. ;)
I am digging this thread, too, and I totally respect the opinions of @SupressYourself on this. I don't take offense to any of the comments here. I would like to point out that the season in question here is NOT a primitive weapons season. It is an "Alternative Methods Season", and it was established "In order to offer hunters more options during what was formerly the “Muzzleloader” portion of the Firearms Deer Season". Based upon that statement and the way the law is framed I believe that the intent was to allow guys like me to use an AR pistol if we want to during this season.

I also agree with @Lthrt that muzzle loaders are not longer "primitive" weapons anyway. My boss has a $4,000 custom ML that he shoots steel with out to 800 yards, and he killed a muley with it last year at over 550!

As far as barrel length goes, it has to be under 16 inches to be considered a pistol. To get the most out of the 6.5 Grendel I thinking about getting a 16" barrel (looking at Faxon and Satern) and having it cut to 15.25 and rethreaded.
 
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Yondering

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I have looked at the AA 11.5 inch barrel as well as the Ballistic Advantage 12.5 in the Hanson profile. I would like to have something longer if possible to extend my practical range to ~300 yards. From the ballistics charts based on barrel length that I have studied it appears that 14+ would be best, but I can't find any in that length.
In my experience there is very little ballistic difference in 6.5 Grendel between a 12.5" barrel (which is becoming fairly common) and a 14". I started with a 14" and then cut it back to 12.5" - with max loads of TAC and 8208, I measured 60 fps - 80 fps difference with 120gr and 123gr bullets. That's almost insignificant, and to me it was well worth going with the shorter 12.5" barrel.

I would happily use it at 300 yards on deer, with the right bullet. The 129 ABLR would be my first choice.
 

bigjake83

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In my experience there is very little ballistic difference in 6.5 Grendel between a 12.5" barrel (which is becoming fairly common) and a 14". I started with a 14" and then cut it back to 12.5" - with max loads of TAC and 8208, I measured 60 fps - 80 fps difference with 120gr and 123gr bullets. That's almost insignificant, and to me it was well worth going with the shorter 12.5" barrel.

I would happily use it at 300 yards on deer, with the right bullet. The 129 ABLR would be my first choice.
How come you're such a fan of the shorties is it just for ease of carrying/ ergonomics??
 

Yondering

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How come you're such a fan of the shorties is it just for ease of carrying/ ergonomics??
Yes to those, but also balance is a big one as well. The 12.5" 6.5 Grendel I mentioned above balances really well for dynamic movements, but the part that surprised me was it's balance for long distance prone shooting too - for some reason it stays on target and is easier to track hits (and make repeated rapid hits) than any of my longer ARs. I can't explain why, but everyone who's shot it prone comments on it.

Don't get me wrong, I own and like long guns too (most of my ARs are 16"-24" rifles), but in the Grendel particularly (and the Blackout, but that's a different topic) the short 12.5" barrel doesn't give up much in ballistics to a 16", but it does gain a lot in portability especially in thick woods. It was a real pleasure to use in some of the thick Mississippi thickets last fall compared to a longer rifle.

Also I shoot suppressed a lot, so the short barrel keeps the length down of course.

Usually I use this upper on an SBR lower, but sometimes on a pistol lower with a folding LAW adapter - the short barrel lets me fit it in a backpack to carry on my dual sport bike, and is still 600+ yard capable on head-size targets.

It's not all free lunch though - the 12.5" Grendel is LOUD. That's the only real compromise I've found with this particular rifle. Even suppressed it's still a bit louder than my others.
 
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