MPA losing top spot?

z77280

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Why are there so many MPA chassis for sale? Is everyone going to stocks (MCS, Foundations), running the new MDC ACC chassis, or something different all together?
 

Tx_Aggie

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Still lots of love for MPA, even if companies like MDT and XLR are stepping up with some seriously nice competition oriented chassis.
 

Yoteski

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The competition has surpassed MPA's ability of supply/demand and CS. The last time I called to order a chassis the wait was like 14 weeks. Thanks but no thanks. I still run an MPA and think it's a good product, but there's obviously a breakdown in their manufacturing process.
There's a lot of competition out there anymore and other companies have filled the void MPA left.
 

ToddM

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I'd imagine like most of the other sports having the best product isn't the only way to become the most popular or used by the best shooters. The companies that give away the most product or offer the best prize money etc. to their sponsored shooters can get a good, but not the best, product to be the most popular choice. You see this in archery all the time.
 

Dthomas3523

That statement is too poor for me to comprehend...
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Do people actually buy things because “XYZ shooter uses it”?

I haven’t ever heard that line muttered in a serious conversation about gear.
 
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ToddM

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I'd imagine, for example, the PRS series of articles over the years of "What the Pros use" has sold a TON of product. I'd also imagine that if it wasn't good marketing you would not see the whole "offical xxx product of PRS" marketing that's everywhere this year.

The same is true of the "What our shooters use" on the front page of the PRS webpage. I'd imagine seeing that Defiance and Curtis actions outnumber all the other actions combined drive sales, the same is true of MPA and Manners stocks. Armageddon gear bags are used 10x over anyone else. The same is probably true that Sig rangefinders are used by 2x as many shooters than any other brand, and Trigger tech 3x. Granted it's not a full cross section of all PRS shooters, but you can bet newer shooters and even non-PRS shooters are viewing these pages and making purchase decisions from them.
 
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THEIS

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Hi,

Choate Ultimate Sniper with 12" wide bag rider is the future...

"What the Pros Use" is the biggest laughing stock article in the industry....it is like saying Government awards a tender contract based on performance, lololol.

Sincerely,
Theis
 

ToddM

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"What the Pros Use" is the biggest laughing stock article in the industry....it is like saying Government awards a tender contract based on performance, lololol.
You're right, but also wrong. While most of us know that all being selected for a government contract means is you were the cheapest qualifying bidder, and not the highest performing product. The reality is tons of people buy gear because it's selected for military contracts. Just look at all the M17 sig sales, and it's not even the same gun the military is getting!

It's like Titanium, it's a poor choice for a lot of applications, but people hear "Titanium" today and they instantly think it's the best material for everything from knife blades to AR15 trigger/hammer pins. :rolleyes:
 

Hellbender

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The PRS top shooters aren't going to compromise on ANYTHING if it will give them a TRUE advantage, sponsored or not.
If they are using it, they feel it is the best for them.
A short, fat fingered guy probably won't like the same stock as a tall, skinny guy.
If two different scopes will give the same performance at the range, they may use the one with "less whatever" (per all the internet experts), but that "Less whatever" is not hurting their score, or they will use it.
 

ToddM

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I used to think that, but having known a nationally ranked Archery shooter, they will and do change manufacturers and equipment based on sponsorship offers and manufacturer $ payouts. Now of course none of them are going to use something that they know will keep them from placing, but most know that at the level they are at equipment is not buying them scores.

I can also tell you that it may not apply to PRS shooting, but the bows/arrows/etc. those pro archers are shooting, are NOT what you buy in the store. They have been selected/sorted for higher tolerances, matched spines/limbs etc. So while it looks like the standard Hoyt/Mathews/PSE you buy in the store, for the best of the best, it's not. Cycling is the same way, in fact in cycling there have even been many times where a pro cyclist is using another brand equipment that has been painted/stickered to look like their sponsorship companies product.

When $ is involved, and pros performances with a product = sales, you can bet games are being played. If one company offers free or super discounted product, and 3x as much money if you place, you can bet it attracts shooters unless it's total crap.
 
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Campguy308

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There are a lot of MPA Chassis out there. Just like there are lots of Chevy Silverados out there. With that quantity, and the underwear changing nature of this sport, you will see some come up for sale often.
 
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Yaremkiv

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But if I cant trust the "what the pros use" articles, how in the hell am I supposed to become a pro????
 

ToddM

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That assumes everyone has basically the same gear. If gear didn't matter, no one would spend $15k on their setups, they'd be shooting stock remington 700's with tasco's on them. Gear matters, just not as much as many would like to think. I used to love winning $20 bets as a kid beating people's scores in trap shooting THEIR shotguns after they'd make a smart remark about my Perzzi being the reason I shot so well. Over 3-4 years of doing that I probably came close to paying for it.

The worst shooter with the best gear won't win, and the best shooter with the worst gear won't either. I'd be willing to bet none of the top PRS guys would maintain their performance given a stock factory Rem 700 in .223 with factory ammo and a $100 tasco on it.
 

Andielouroo

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That assumes everyone has basically the same gear. If gear didn't matter, no one would spend $15k on their setups, they'd be shooting stock remington 700's with tasco's on them. Gear matters, just not as much as many would like to think. I used to love winning $20 bets as a kid beating people's scores in trap shooting THEIR shotguns after they'd make a smart remark about my Perzzi being the reason I shot so well. Over 3-4 years of doing that I probably came close to paying for it.

The worst shooter with the best gear won't win, and the best shooter with the worst gear won't either. I'd be willing to bet none of the top PRS guys would maintain their performance given a stock factory Rem 700 in .223 with factory ammo and a $100 tasco on it.
I agree for the most part but also think there is a point where that no longer becomes true. A great shooter can probably shoot every bit as well with a $5k setup as with a $10k setup. Whether you are using TT or a lowly $2k used S&B likely doesn’t have a huge impact on performance. Similarly, the difference between a $600 XLR chassis and a $1400 decked out Manners stock is probably not significant for a great shooter.

My point is just that when you get to the high level of gear, whether you have the highest level or something just below that likely doesn’t make a whole lot of difference.
 

LawnMM

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I agree for the most part but also think there is a point where that no longer becomes true. A great shooter can probably shoot every bit as well with a $5k setup as with a $10k setup. Whether you are using TT or a lowly $2k used S&B likely doesn’t have a huge impact on performance. Similarly, the difference between a $600 XLR chassis and a $1400 decked out Manners stock is probably not significant for a great shooter.

My point is just that when you get to the high level of gear, whether you have the highest level or something just below that likely doesn’t make a whole lot of difference.


Billy Idol gets it 🤷🏼‍♂️
 
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z77280

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Well guess I opened a can of worms on this one. I personally like the way the MPA feels compared to the other stocks I have been behind other than a JAE.

I do believe MPA has good marketing, but in my opinion that also have a solid product.
 

Dthomas3523

That statement is too poor for me to comprehend...
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Well guess I opened a can of worms on this one. I personally like the way the MPA feels compared to the other stocks I have been behind other than a JAE.

I do believe MPA has good marketing, but in my opinion that also have a solid product.
They do make a solid product. Regardless of marketing, if that many people use it, it’s not just hype.

Look at triggertech and Nightforce. I’m not an NF fan, but can’t deny they are good optics. And triggertech triggers are awesome.

Always gonna be some naysayers. Use what you like and if what you like happens to be what a ton of people are using, there’s probably a reason other than just marketing.
 

kthomas

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Do people actually buy things because “XYZ shooter uses it”?

I haven’t ever heard that line muttered in a serious conversation about gear.
Absolutely they do. If a product is used by a good majority of top PRS shooters, as per the PRS blog per say, that's going to influence a lot of consumers. You see the "what the pro's use" equipment lists referenced all the time on here, FB, and other internet holes, to espouse how awesome a product is.

So while you may not necessarily hear a person at a match say "I use Impact because Matty B. does!" - a lot of lower level and mid pack shooters are influenced by what the top shooters are using. As much as people want to argue against this fact, it's pretty obvious.

Simply put, if sponsoring shooters didn't provide any fiscal benefit to companies, they wouldn't sponsor shooters. That says it all right there.
 

Dthomas3523

That statement is too poor for me to comprehend...
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Absolutely they do. If a product is used by a good majority of top PRS shooters, as per the PRS blog per say, that's going to influence a lot of consumers. You see the "what the pro's use" equipment lists referenced all the time on here, FB, and other internet holes, to espouse how awesome a product is.

So while you may not necessarily hear a person at a match say "I use Impact because Matty B. does!" - a lot of lower level and mid pack shooters are influenced by what the top shooters are using. As much as people want to argue against this fact, it's pretty obvious.

Simply put, if sponsoring shooters didn't provide any fiscal benefit to companies, they wouldn't sponsor shooters. That says it all right there.
I agree with most of this.

The last paragraph is a bit iffy though. Sponsorships in PRS are not really that big of an investment. It’s not like they are spending tons of cash on their sponsored shooters.

Giving out a free optic or action or discounts isn’t enough investment for a company to sit down and figure out what the return on investment is.

If I give one action away and it sells five, its free advertising after that. Not really worth my time to even look into the ROI at that point. As long as it doesn’t affect me negatively, I don’t care.
 
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kthomas

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Hi,

LOLOL "sponsored" shooters bounce around equipment to equipment faster than the Khardashians bounce around on different dicks.

Sincerely,
Theis
That's why the "what the pro's use" lists are such a joke. They jump around manufacturers more than a sex addict at a whore house.

I also find it funny that they are labeled as "pro's". Not a single one of them make a profession out of it, its a grassroots sport/hobby that we/they play on the weekend, and meanwhile being a plumber to pay the bills.
 

Dthomas3523

That statement is too poor for me to comprehend...
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Winners come to Impact........just the facts.
But, can you articulate the difference between an impact and a defiance, or a curtis?

Can you articulate the difference between a NF and Schmidt?


Besides personal preference?

Owned a few impacts. They are very nice.
 

kthomas

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Winners come to Impact........just the facts.
What does that have to do with MPA?

The Impacts are good actions, but certainly a lot of hype around them. I know plenty top PRS gunsmiths (2 top 10 PRS gunsmiths) and shooters that prefer other actions over the Impact. They're not overwhelmingly better than the other top tier actions, as the hype would have you believe.

Their marketing is good, and the actions ended up in the right hands - the hands of some product mavens (ala "The Tipping Point" - Malcom Gladwell) which did a great job creating hype. They are certainly one of the better revisions of a 2 lug, push feed, rem700 type action, but not innovative by any means. Unfortunately, a lot of people end up getting disappointed when they finally get their Impact, as they expect it to be an amazing unicorn of an action. When in reality there are actions that perform every bit as good as Impact, and some with better and more innovative features.

But different strokes for different folks.

Edit to add: the Impact action is actually the perfect personification of how hype can drive product popularity. There's so much rhetoric and hyperbole about Impact actions on the internet, it's absolutely silly. They are very good actions no doubt, but the group think rhetoric associated with that brand now is really hard to stand.
 
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Sutherlandsd

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Honestly I think hype driven from this site and Facebook has driven some of these companies to rockstar status as much as marketing sponsorship to PRS pros. Hype train creates unicorn horn actions, barrels and chassis's. The reality is there is a law of diminishing returns... Will an mpa chassis make me a better shooter than a krg bravo other than it being slightly more convenient probably not and if it's not comfortable to get behind maybe not as good.
 
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mpk1996

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The competition has surpassed MPA's ability of supply/demand and CS. The last time I called to order a chassis the wait was like 14 weeks. Thanks but no thanks. I still run an MPA and think it's a good product, but there's obviously a breakdown in their manufacturing process.
There's a lot of competition out there anymore and other companies have filled the void MPA left.
This has to be one of the most ignorant statements in this thread. First off MPAs customer service is top notch. Second, 14 weeks isn't bad given the competition for a custom ordered stock/chassis. Manners is up around 6 months or more (there were at 1 year a while back) and other top stock and chassis manufactures are about the same. Third, you can buy them from one of their vendors TODAY. OTM and Altus have them in stock right now. So i don't think there is a "breakdown in their manufacturing process" at all. Maybe you just need to know where to look.
 
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ToddM

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Honestly I think hype driven from this site and Facebook has driven some of these companies to rockstar status as much as marketing sponsorship to PRS pros. Hype train creates unicorn horn actions, barrels and chassis's.
Absolutely it does, and that's not always a bad thing, some small grass roots companies/products probably would have never happened without the Hide/internet getting the word out. However, once those companies have rockstar status, they have a whole herd of radical fanboys that insult, belittle, and run off anyone who says anything less than positive about a rockstar product/smith.

It's almost comical, if it wasn't so sad, how you can ask a question about a smith/product, or post a problem/concern, and all the public posts will be amazingly positive, or you will start getting beat up by the fanboys, but you then get multiple PM's from people who have the same horror stories, but are too afraid to post their experiences publically.
 

mpk1996

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I used to think that, but having known a nationally ranked Archery shooter, they will and do change manufacturers and equipment based on sponsorship offers and manufacturer $ payouts. Now of course none of them are going to use something that they know will keep them from placing, but most know that at the level they are at equipment is not buying them scores.

I can also tell you that it may not apply to PRS shooting, but the bows/arrows/etc. those pro archers are shooting, are NOT what you buy in the store. They have been selected/sorted for higher tolerances, matched spines/limbs etc. So while it looks like the standard Hoyt/Mathews/PSE you buy in the store, for the best of the best, it's not. Cycling is the same way, in fact in cycling there have even been many times where a pro cyclist is using another brand equipment that has been painted/stickered to look like their sponsorship companies product.

When $ is involved, and pros performances with a product = sales, you can bet games are being played. If one company offers free or super discounted product, and 3x as much money if you place, you can bet it attracts shooters unless it's total crap.

you couldn't be more wrong in this. there is no "specially tuned action" or any other gear for top PRS shooters. PERIOD. its the same anyone else gets, sometimes worse (ive been known to shoot "blem" stuff given to me)

This sport is much different than both archery and cycling. look at the prize tables. there are no cash payouts to anyone. the one team that did have something like a performance bonus (surgeon) is gone because they were hard to deal with and they didn't do the shooters right. so they all left. barrels and maybe bullets may be the few things where i have heard of guys running one thing and being "sponsored" by another.

And just so you know, most of the guys pay a lot of money out of pocket for lots of different components. Very few people have the level of sponsorship (if any) that pays for everything, especially travel. so if you think guys are out there getting a full ride, you are in for a rude awakening if you ever get to the top.
 

canezach

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This has to be one of the most ignorant statements in this thread. First off MPAs customer service is top notch. Second, 14 weeks isn't bad given the competition for a custom ordered stock/chassis. Manners is up around 6 months or more (there were at 1 year a while back) and other top stock and chassis manufactures are about the same. Third, you can buy them from one of their vendors TODAY. OTM and Altus have them in stock right now. So i don't think there is a "breakdown in their manufacturing process" at all. Maybe you just need to know where to look.
Personally, I think YOUR comment ignores the experiences of a multitude of other people. Perhaps you've missed the number of people complaining about MPA's customer service, which is hit or miss at best. Guys sending back a chassis and it wasn't repaired satisfactorily. Guys leaving countless voicemails and emails with no response. Guys placing orders and what they receive isn't what they ordered. And 14 weeks for a chassis? Try six+ months for some of us. I placed an order through a vendor in February 2017. Since I got a smoking deal, I figured I'd just order the color I wanted. I waited three months before I even tried calling. And when I did, and I finally got in touch with someone, I got the standard "two weeks" answer, which turned into another "two weeks", and another "two weeks", then, "Oh, it's going out for cerakote next week"... and the following week, and the week after that. My chassis finally arrived in September, a little over 7 months from the day I placed my order. Congratulations, you had great customer service! Your experience does not reflect the experience of more than just a handful of people on here. Do they make a great product? Absolutely! Would I go through that again for a simple non-folding competition chassis in a different color? Not a chance.
 
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Hollywood 6mm

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Hi,

LOLOL "sponsored" shooters bounce around equipment to equipment faster than the Khardashians bounce around on different dicks.

Sincerely,
Theis
Some of them do. Not everyone. I've got quite a few friends and teammates that have shot for the same companies for years with no real deviation.
 
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Bugzlife19

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Run a manners, foundation and an MPA like them all for different reasons find what fits you and run it.
 

swage2712

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I'll admit I fell for the hype. I owned my Impact for a week and sold it and bought another nitrided Deviant. I had to scratch the itch and see what they were all about. They're nothing special at all.
 

AHC222

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This has to be one of the most ignorant statements in this thread. First off MPAs customer service is top notch. Second, 14 weeks isn't bad given the competition for a custom ordered stock/chassis. Manners is up around 6 months or more (there were at 1 year a while back) and other top stock and chassis manufactures are about the same. Third, you can buy them from one of their vendors TODAY. OTM and Altus have them in stock right now. So i don't think there is a "breakdown in their manufacturing process" at all. Maybe you just need to know where to look.
I have no dog in this fight, but as an outside observer I've heard some things about their CS that leads me to believe it might not be "top notch". Perhaps I've always just had great experiences with MDT, KRG, and others, but it really seems like MPA is reaching with trying to fulfill the demand and CS is suffering as a consequence. Again, no personal experience, but I've heard of a few (admittedly one-sided) issues with them lately. Below is a recent thread.

https://forum.snipershide.com/threads/not-happy-with-mpa-customer-service-14-month-wait-for-folding-stock-multiple-emails-phone-calls-with-no-response-update-pg-1.6925893/