MOA vs Mil

MinnesotaMulisha

Head MF Door Keeper
Online Training Access
Belligerents
Jul 30, 2013
1,607
1,505
219
Lincoln, NE
Isn't one MOA adjustment equal to .25" (unless you have a scope that adjusts in 1/8 increments) and isn't one MRAD adjustment equal to .36" at 100 yards?

When we take these numbers out to 1000 yards, it's 3.6" vs 2.5" so the difference in adjustments at 1000 yards only a tad bit over an inch.
No. 1/4 MOA at 100 yards (typically one click on most scopes) is .261 inches because an MOA at 100 yards is actually 1.047 inches. So the difference would be less than an inch.
 

Alabusa

On the Tennessee River
Belligerents
Minuteman
Jan 1, 2018
834
1,901
99
Muscle Shoals, Alabama
Isn't one MOA adjustment equal to .25" (unless you have a scope that adjusts in 1/8 increments) and isn't one MRAD adjustment equal to .36" at 100 yards?

When we take these numbers out to 1000 yards, it's 3.6" vs 2.5" so the difference in adjustments at 1000 yards only a tad bit over an inch.
Yes.....kind of

Depends on if it is a 1/4 minute of angle or 1/4 of an inch. There are scopes that are both ways.

1 moa= 1.047" so 1/4 minute is .262

IPHY(inches per hundred yards) is 1 inch so 1/4 is .250
 

stello1001

Professional Newb
Belligerents
Feb 20, 2017
1,255
516
119
Corpus Christi TX
Yes.....kind of

Depends on if it is a 1/4 minute of angle or 1/4 of an inch. There are scopes that are both ways.

1 moa= 1.047" so 1/4 minute is .262

IPHY(inches per hundred yards) is 1 inch so 1/4 is .250
You are correct, I was aware it wasn't exactly an inch and couldn't remember the actual data. Thanks for clarifying...
 

Billiam1211

Private
Minuteman
Feb 19, 2018
76
30
24
30
IL
I run a Vortex Razor Gen II 4.5-27x in MOA and it works great. I'd switch to MIL if I could find someone that wanted trade though because everyone at PRS matches is running MIL scopes so I'm always the odd ball 🤦🏻‍♂️
 

dirthead1

I Like BBQ
Belligerents
Feb 11, 2017
1,038
287
89
Phoenix, AZ
Bottom line is it really doesnt matter. I prefer mil just because base 10 is more simple to me than fractions. Having said that, I recently purchased a scope for my hunting rifle in moa, only because I like the look of the moa reticle more than the mil reticle in that particular scope. At the end of the day, both are usable. You might have a particular need that gives one the edge over the other. Best case is you learn to use both then these discussions don’t matter. If people would stop trying to equate a linear measurement to an adjustment they would realize how easy it is to use either system. So my suggestion is to focus on that rather than which is best.
 

_Raining

Private
Belligerents
Feb 14, 2017
231
71
34
These threads always crack me up. MOA sucks...period. How many MOA scopes out there are actually true MOA and not IPHY or some crappy variation in between? Frank just tested an "MOA" Nightforce and guess what, it was actually IPHY. Explain that one.

Fractions are stupid, always have been, always will be. Base 10 math is easier, faster, and just better.
Why does it matter if it is MOA or IPHY, you just click the button on the ballistic calculator to be the correct one. It is only a problem if the turrets do not match the reticle.

.1 is a fraction (1/10)

I was having to do mental math for my 1/8 MOA scope when it gave me .625 but if the app displayed it as 5/8 then it would be just as easy to dial to w.e whole number and count 5 past it the same way you would .5 mil (5/10).

If you are doing F Class or Benchrest then you will want to go with 1/8 MOA for the most granularity as well as almost all high power SFP scopes are in 1/8 so you wont typically get a choice.
If you are doing PRS style shooting then it only matters if you are communicating with another human being. If you are, then matching adjustments will remove the need to do a conversion.
 

Long Range 338

Professional Ammo Waster
Online Training Access
Belligerents
Jul 10, 2012
885
502
99
Out West
Why does it matter if it is MOA or IPHY, you just click the button on the ballistic calculator to be the correct one. It is only a problem if the turrets do not match the reticle.

.1 is a fraction (1/10)

I was having to do mental math for my 1/8 MOA scope when it gave me .625 but if the app displayed it as 5/8 then it would be just as easy to dial to w.e whole number and count 5 past it the same way you would .5 mil (5/10).

If you are doing F Class or Benchrest then you will want to go with 1/8 MOA for the most granularity as well as almost all high power SFP scopes are in 1/8 so you wont typically get a choice.
If you are doing PRS style shooting then it only matters if you are communicating with another human being. If you are, then matching adjustments will remove the need to do a conversion.
Hell, just go with 1/20th MIL (.05 MIL) if you want to do the mental gymnastics for practice. Then you get the best of both worlds. You get to work in fractions and still say you are using MILS. :ROFLMAO:
 
  • Haha
Reactions: M8541Reaper

JMGlasgow

Private
Belligerents
Apr 13, 2012
1,544
791
219
Cheyenne, WY
Why does it matter if it is MOA or IPHY, you just click the button on the ballistic calculator to be the correct one. It is only a problem if the turrets do not match the reticle.

.1 is a fraction (1/10)

I was having to do mental math for my 1/8 MOA scope when it gave me .625 but if the app displayed it as 5/8 then it would be just as easy to dial to w.e whole number and count 5 past it the same way you would .5 mil (5/10).

If you are doing F Class or Benchrest then you will want to go with 1/8 MOA for the most granularity as well as almost all high power SFP scopes are in 1/8 so you wont typically get a choice.
If you are doing PRS style shooting then it only matters if you are communicating with another human being. If you are, then matching adjustments will remove the need to do a conversion.
Because if your scope says it's MOA and it's actually IPHY, then that is wrong.

I also don't use fractions when communicating, I'd say "come up point 2" not 2 tenths.
 

_Raining

Private
Belligerents
Feb 14, 2017
231
71
34
Hell, just go with 1/20th MIL (.05 MIL) if you want to do the mental gymnastics for practice. Then you get the best of both worlds. You get to work in fractions and still say you are using MILS. :ROFLMAO:
I mean, as long as you write it as a fraction instead of a decimal then "7 3/20" is going to be no different than "7.3" they both tell the shooter to dial to 7 then click 3 times. It is going to take longer to make that adjustment since you will need twice as many clicks to get there but as far as mental gymnastics goes, it isn't a big deal. I suppose counting to 19 is annoying but you could always write it down as "8 -1/20". Don't get me wrong, getting a scope that has IPHY turrets and MOA reticle is no bueno and .1 Mils keeps things simple but I feel like it wouldn't slow me down to use 1/4 MOA if everyone's wind calls and spotter corrections are in MOA. Even if you had MOA/MOA and hung around mil guys, chances are you would get pretty good at converting Mils to MOA.

I personally own a 10-50x SFP 1/8 MOA scope for F Class and a 5-25x FFP .1 Mil scope for practical shooting. And that is what I would advise people to do. I think a lot of people hold on the rings in F Class target and your wind coach is going to know your caliber and MV so they will just say hold left on the 9 or something like that. And we know most PRS shooters use mils so it is going to be simpler to hear someone say, I was holding .4 left for wind and not have to convert it to MOA but it isn't a big deal if you do.

If someone already has a MOA/MOA FFP scope I think telling them to buy a new scope in Mils is bad advice, unless they are looking to upgrade their scope. The people who say "I think in inches so MOA makes sense to me" is wrong because we all know you should be measuring with the reticle.

The OP said "With regard to MOA vs Mil... MOA makes more sense to me" which indicates that he has the mind set of something like:
"I missed 1 plates width off the right edge so I need to hold 1.5 plates left. A plate is 18 inches. Half of 18 inches is 9 inches. 18 + 9 is 27 inches. 27 inches at 600 yards is 27/6, hmm 6 times 5 is 30 so 4.5...yea 4.5 sounds right. Let me dial 4.5 left. Boom, hit"

vs

"Let me just measure that miss with the reticle, mmk 4.5. Hold 4.5 left. Boom hit."

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I feel like this thread could have been finished with 1 reply:

Most PRS shooters use mil scopes (MIL is the same as MRAD) so you are going to have an easier time communicating with other shooters about wind calls and elevation. ex:
If you are hitting high and say your dope is 6.7 Mils and someone else shooting the same caliber says 'That seems like too much, it is 6.4 Mils for me. What is your MV?'. etc

1/4 MOA is going to have slightly more granularity than .1 mils but it is not a big deal, especially on unstable BS that you will be forced to shoot off of. Also, more shooters using MILS means you have a larger base of people to sell your scope to if you want to get out of PRS or if you want to upgrade/side grade to swap to a diff reticle or w.e else reason you have to want a different scope. As far as "I think in inches so MOA makes sense to me" goes, you should be using the reticle to measure the miss and hold the correction. It isn't about inches or meters, if you have MOA or MILS or some other made up bullshit measurement it doesn't matter, measure with reticle and make the correction.

Inches, yards, meters, centimeters etc only come into play when you are ranging the target. AFAIK you don't need to do this often and mirage can fuck with your ability to measure properly but this is a link to the formulas: http://www.arcanamavens.com/LBSFiles/Shooting/Downloads/Ranging/

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also I don't compete in PRS so don't listen to anything I say.
 

_Raining

Private
Belligerents
Feb 14, 2017
231
71
34
Because if your scope says it's MOA and it's actually IPHY, then that is wrong.

I also don't use fractions when communicating, I'd say "come up point 2" not 2 tenths.
Yea, it is advertised incorrectly but if the reticle is also IPHY then you just click a button and poof, problem solved.

Just because you say "come up point 2" doesn't mean that "come up one quarter" isn't just as effective...
 

Conaso

Private
Belligerents
Jul 8, 2011
171
40
34
Ft. Belvoir Area, Northern Virginia
Just to mess with you guys...

I have a Schuetzen-style Winchester Highwall M1885 (replica) with a Soule tang sight and windage-adjustable globe front-sight (adjust opposite direction). The sight adjustment is IPHY with 1/2" adjustment, no "clicks." You have to consider sight radius in your calculations (32" barrel plus sight offset).

You guys have it easy!
 

Long Range 338

Professional Ammo Waster
Online Training Access
Belligerents
Jul 10, 2012
885
502
99
Out West
Just to mess with you guys...

I have a Schuetzen-style Winchester Highwall M1885 (replica) with a Soule tang sight and windage-adjustable globe front-sight (adjust opposite direction). The sight adjustment is IPHY with 1/2" adjustment, no "clicks." You have to consider sight radius in your calculations (32" barrel plus sight offset).

You guys have it easy!
Sounds like you have the secret key to mastering MOA! :p
Sorry, I couldn’t resist being a smartass