MOA vs Mil

Dougstdig

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Aug 18, 2019
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Hello all,

Before i get too much flak, I've searched numerous ways with no success. I just purchase my first rifle to step into this new arena. I'm not new to shooting, just new to the tactical side. I'm looking at spending some quality time practicing the craft then stepping into some competitions. I can't seem to pull the trigger...pun intended...with regard to purchasing glass. While not having an issue spending some pretty good coin on what i want, i dont want to go nuts and don't want to have buyers remorse.

With regard to MOA vs Mil... MOA makes more sense to me, but don't want to have to translate in my head if I'm at a PRS shoot if you know what i mean. Any constructive comments, direction or links to the same would be much appreciated.
 

spartan67

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Search more. This subject has been covered in great detail here many times.
Bottom line, get a scope with a matching turret/reticles in Mil/mil., and zero stop. Save money, and then save 25% more.

Read the forum more, stay off FB.

And welcome to the Hide!!!
 
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Dougstdig

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So...the constructive comment. Then the search icon by my initial on the top right totally doesnt work turning up 0 results. Then i hit the "search forums" link and went though 10 pages of 10 topics...yeah thats 100... brousing through a good many of then turned up nothing... so when i originally said i tried I did. Those that have been members and are tired of people asking things multiple times shame on you for not recommending a sticky. If you did and nothing was done...i guess it flows up hill. Did i make a mistake coming to this forum thinking Id get help from a mature population with something I'm truely interested in???
 

TacticalDillhole

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So...the constructive comment. Then the search icon by my initial on the top right totally doesnt work turning up 0 results. Then i hit the "search forums" link and went though 10 pages of 10 topics...yeah thats 100... brousing through a good many of then turned up nothing... so when i originally said i tried I did. Those that have been members and are tired of people asking things multiple times shame on you for not recommending a sticky. If you did and nothing was done...i guess it flows up hill. Did i make a mistake coming to this forum thinking Id get help from a mature population with something I'm truely interested in???
The post right above this one shows you how to use google to find what you are looking for. Simply put SnipersHide mil vs MOA and it should net you some results.

View attachment 713272324281E44-654C-48D2-BA6D-7AFB2AD93EA1.png

As for maturity....we’ll sometimes we can be a bit immature but it’s all in good fun. Don’t take it personal. This topic in,particular has a tendency to envoke some good fun. It’s literally been beat to death and comes up about every 2 months along with all the BS like post #4 above.
 

hafejd30

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I’ve used both. For me one is just as good as the other.

My deciding factor to keep MOA on my long range guns came down to the guys I Shoot with. All shoot MOA. Easier to spot and help correct shots etc when your all on the same page.

The other guns not really that big of a deal. The turrets matching the reticle MOA/MOA or MIL/MIL is a must

I will say it’s easier to find MIL/MIL scopes it seems in the sale section (px) here so you have more options to choose from if your looking for a decent deal. Also seems many shooters are switching from MOA to MIL and not the other way around

There’s a lot of very knowledgeable members on here. Just read the forum rules especially before you start playing in the px section and you’ll be fine. Welcome to the Hide
 

Gunfighter14e2

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If you're on facebook,
own a smart phone,
setting up a "Sniper Rifle",
are trying to buy in,
then ask a question that has been beat to death,
I strongly suggest you go MIl to completely become a full fledged GS (Gucci shooter).

If you're just wanting to be the gray man,
hit the target w/o all the got's to have cool shit,
able to use your brain,
an are using a stick that is not, a safe queen
go MOA.

If you don't,
play games,
carry a flip or no phone,
own safe queens,
then IPHY is for you.
 

Centuriator

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Search more. This subject has been covered in great detail here many times.
Bottom line, get a scope with a matching turret/reticles in Mil/mil., and zero stop. Save money, and then save 25% more.

Read the forum more, stay off FB.

And welcome to the Hide!!!

REMINDER: This is a place to ask questions, no matter how stupid, no matter how many times asked. If you can't provide him a civil and helpful response, then just don't comment at all. Telling new members, "Your question has been asked before" is rude and inappropriate in this topic, in this forum. If we want to encourage more people to get into precision shooting we need to be respectful and helpful and not be jerks when they ask what, to us, is a "stupid question" or one asked many times previously. My .02

Tip for OP: Check the time stamps of posts, there is a high probability that comments made in the late of night, or wee hours of morning are under the influence of alcohol, or for that matter, that could always be the case regardless of time. :)
 
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308pirate

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If you're on facebook,
own a smart phone,
setting up a "Sniper Rifle",
are trying to buy in,
then ask a question that has been beat to death,
I strongly suggest you go MIl to completely become a full fledged GS (Gucci shooter).

If you're just wanting to be the gray man,
hit the target w/o all the got's to have cool shit,
able to use your brain,
an are using a stick that is not, a safe queen
go MOA.

If you don't,
play games,
carry a flip or no phone,
own safe queens,
then IPHY is for you.
Bullshit

Shooting with an MOA scope doesn't make you a gray man, nor makes you smarter or better than anyone else.

Your constant putdowns of milliradian scopes lead me to think that you really must not understand the fundamentals of using angular measurements to direct fire. Where else would this hostility and insecurity come from?
 
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Dthomas3523

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Bullshit

Shooting with an MOA scope doesn't make you a gray man, nor makes you smarter or better than anyone else.

Your constant putdowns of milliradian scopes lead me to think that you really must not understand the fundamentals of using angular measurements to direct fire. Where else would this hostility and insecurity come from?
This is why most anyone with a screename with gunfighter, warfighter, wardog, etc etc, gets put on ignore almost immediately.
 

beetroot

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As PRS has got more common, many folk have gotten used to making Mil wind calls.

But if like me inches and yards are second nature for drop, a good option can be a scope with Mil reticle and MOA turrets. MOA turrets also have advantage of finer adjustments.

My Leupold Mark 4 is awesome for this, have one on my 65moor and easily snipe swamp badgers out too 800yards.
 
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hafejd30

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As PRS has got more common, many folk have gotten used to making Mil wind calls.

But if like me inches and yards are second nature for drop, a good option can be a scope with Mil reticle and MOA turrets. MOA turrets also have advantage of finer adjustments.

My Leupold Mark 4 is awesome for this, have one on my 65moor and easily snipe swamp badgers out too 800yards.
Mismatched reticles and turrets suck donkey nuts.....terrible outdated advice!
 
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Spblademaker

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^^^
This right here. How can one argue with this kind of logic? What are you people, swamp badger lovers???
 

Long Range 338

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As PRS has got more common, many folk have gotten used to making Mil wind calls.

But if like me inches and yards are second nature for drop, a good option can be a scope with Mil reticle and MOA turrets. MOA turrets also have advantage of finer adjustments.

My Leupold Mark 4 is awesome for this, have one on my 65moor and easily snipe swamp badgers out too 800yards.
The used market should be a major bonus for you if this is your preference....
 
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hafejd30

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Your not running down to your target with your Stanley Fat Max every shot

Just get a mil/mil or MOA/MOA setup. Use the reticle to measure than adjust with the corresponding turret.

I hold wind vs adjust unless I’m shooting 1,000 yd fclass matches. Wether you correct for wind or elevation there is no simpler design than a matching setup.

If you really want simple get FFP. Then you don’t have to worry about not being on the correct power for measuring etc.

You starting out in Long Range Precision. Try to make it as simple to learn as you can. I’ve also owned a Leupold with mil reticle and MOA turrets and would never think about going back to that system
 

slimJim2000

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Just make sure you know what your gear is setup for and keep it all the same. Most people here are using MILS, and that has become a lot more common in the last ten years or so. At least MILS are standard in the west. I don't think Swedish MILS are common, and most people won't have Russian gear so they wont need to worry about Russian MILS. I do have a nice older tactical tripod though from Yugoslavia that is graduated in Russian MILS so its possible some stuff might still use that standard especially in eastern Europe.
 

Gunfighter14e2

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Bullshit

Shooting with an MOA scope doesn't make you a gray man, nor makes you smarter or better than anyone else.

Your constant putdowns of milliradian scopes lead me to think that you really must not understand the fundamentals of using angular measurements to direct fire. Where else would this hostility and insecurity come from?
This is why most anyone with a screename with gunfighter, warfighter, wardog, etc etc, gets put on ignore almost immediately.
Triggered?... Do we need a safe space?
 

TacticalDillhole

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As PRS has got more common, many folk have gotten used to making Mil wind calls.

But if like me inches and yards are second nature for drop, a good option can be a scope with Mil reticle and MOA turrets. MOA turrets also have advantage of finer adjustments.

My Leupold Mark 4 is awesome for this, have one on my 65moor and easily snipe swamp badgers out too 800yards.
Bruh.

OP, ignore everything in this post and I mean everything.
 

hafejd30

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Bruh.

OP, ignore everything in this post and I mean everything.
^
What dill hole said,

These are the kind of people who volunteer to be your spotter at the range....

Scenario 1)

Me: Hey did you see where that shot went

Experienced shooter: Yes, hit high, wind looks good, dial 1.5 MOA down on elevation.

Bang, clank!

Scenario 2)

Me: Hey did you see where that shot went

The other guy: Sorry didn’t see it I was watching two swamp badgers mating, shoot again

- Bang-

Me: How About that one

The Other Guy: Yes I see it, left and right look good but you gotta come down 1 big line and two little lines. You can look through my scope to see what I’m referring to!
 

lowlight

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A Mil.

1 yard at 1000 yards

3.6 INCHES at 3600 inches. (3600 inches - 100 yards)

It's base 10, which is associated to the metric system but is not metric, it's an ANGLE

1/1000 of a distance, not just meters, centimeters and millimeters, it works with every linear model.

If a scope adjusts in .1 mil, it's the same as 10 pennies = a dime Americans know what a penny is and how it relates to a dime.

2.1 Mils to hit a target is 21 cents
 
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Piper907

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To the OP.
I tried to make the swap to Mils and gave it a fair try before deciding to stay with MOA adjustments. I bought a decent Mils scope and shot with it for 6 months but decided in the end that I prefer MOA. The most valid argument for Mils vs MOA is that most shooters in this arena use Mils scopes, and that communicating with other shooters is easier. There is definitely truth to this... but I have found no need to "communicate" my dope to other shooters (aside from team matches).
Shoot whatever feels better to you.
One thing is for sure... you will have a much better reticle selection if you are shopping for a mils scope.
 
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lowlight

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The wind is easier with mils

It lines up perfectly based on the first number of your G1 BC

100 = .1
200 = .2
300 = .3
400 = .4
500 = .5
600 = .6

There is no math, just know what MPH your rifle system is, (using the G1 BC) and you have wind calls that are correct out to distance.

We shot it in 30+ MPH winds this weekend and it works, every time

5 MPH Rifle x 600-yard shot, in 30 MPH wind = 3.6 Mil hold

10 MPH @ 600 = 1.2
15 MPH @ 600 = 1.8

You will be within .2 mils (.72" @) without any extra effort.
 

Dthomas3523

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To the OP.
I tried to make the swap to Mils and gave it a fair try before deciding to stay with MOA adjustments. I bought a decent Mils scope and shot with it for 6 months but decided in the end that I prefer MOA. The most valid argument for Mils vs MOA is that most shooters in this arena use Mils scopes, and that communicating with other shooters is easier. There is definitely truth to this... but I have found no need to "communicate" my dope to other shooters (aside from team matches).
Shoot whatever feels better to you.
One thing is for sure... you will have a much better reticle selection if you are shopping for a mils scope.
Could you explain why you couldn’t make the switch?

You use mil and moa literally the exact same way if you’re using them properly.