Mk 13 Mod 0 stock

Oct 19, 2010
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#51

sirhrmechanic

Command Sgt. Major
Feb 23, 2010
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The Snobbiest Town in The Snobbiest State in the N
#52
Fantastic. I've got leads at this point on four of them. Interesting about the premier reticle. That is good information. Though as a 'restoration' perhaps Leupold could be talked into leaving the reticle in place ;-) Or, say, PAID to leave the reticle in place.

But you guys have been fantastic in helping me track one down. I expect I'll have one in hand shortly.

Cheers,

Sirhr
 

FatBoy

Chris Hayes, Nashville TN
Jul 29, 2001
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#53
You going with a mk4 or an Ultra?

Ultras were the early units, glued together. Most Ultras also have the round mildots instead of footballs. Leupold probably can't service Ultras anymore, but these were robust units. The late Dick Thomas at Premier was the last guy I know of who could disassemble and reassemble them. He was great.

I asked Tim about his team's guns this morning. He said mixed bag between Ultras, mk4 16x and NXSs.
 

buffalowinter

Rick Jones MAJ, SF (Ret)
Mar 17, 2014
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Llano, TX
#58
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Great, now I want one! In fact I have started my own half-assed build, wishing I had just sucked it down and bought one of the original stocks. Anyhow, mine is based on a Remington 700 .300 Win Mag Long Range, after searching the internet and buying the cheapest one in the US. I found a Mars rail...for a Savage 110. Good news is, it was cheap...and for sale...and an easy mod to fit the Remington 700, and you'd have to look closely to see that it wasn't made for the 700. Bought a Leupold Mark 4 LR/T 4-14...in fact bought two as Leupold is discontinuing all Mark 4 sales to civilians. PTG steel bottom metal, Whidden aluminum bedding block, Leupold rings, Anschutz rail, stainless steel action screws, DevCon bedding, Kydex Bear Paw adjustable cheek piece, and a Greyboe Renegade stock. Greyboe is licensed by McMillan and provided some of the early MK 13 stocks. The Renegade is a copy of the McMillan A5, more or less. My build is not an accurate representation of the Mk13 Mod 0, but rather it is more of an "Homage". But, the thing should be dead-ass accurate when I'm done, hopefully better than the original using the Aluminum bedding block.

Greyboe Renegade stock in Desert Transition camo
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#60
That particular model of stock is what led me to LR rifles way way back. In it's most basic black form, it was on the Winchester Sharpshooter(The most beautiful rifle ever made). I am still making minute adjustments to my A2 Scout in that stock. Such a great rifle.

Those vintage stocks just scream for a 16" barrel with a can
 

USMCSGT0331

Sergeant of the Hide
Mar 23, 2013
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#62
You forgot the bipod and sling in those pics ;)

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FatBoy

Chris Hayes, Nashville TN
Jul 29, 2001
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#64
You bastards... No man needs 3 x mk13s.... How much longer must I procrastinate before these are gone and my wallet (and powder storage) can breath a sigh of relief?

man these things have so much character. What an amazing find. Lilja must be like, "WTF?"
 

buffalowinter

Rick Jones MAJ, SF (Ret)
Mar 17, 2014
723
724
93
Llano, TX
#65
Damn! I was told that video was destroyed!
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May 25, 2008
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#66
Those vintage stocks just scream for a 16" barrel with a can
I don't think so unless you order straight from McMillan. These vintages stocks (along with the USMC M40a1 return stock) should be turned back into what they were while they were in service. I hate it when people spend this kind of money on these stocks and then don't make it into what they were and then they still call their rifle a MK13 and it doesn't even look like a Mk13.

This is my rant on this subject. I just hope that people here that spend their money on this stock would turn it back into what it was and not something that resembles the issued rifle. I have always felt this way but never said anything. Now that I said it I feel better and wont bring it up again. But this is America and we are free to do what we wish and I know that some here will do what they wish. I just want to see some great guns built.

 

sirhrmechanic

Command Sgt. Major
Feb 23, 2010
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The Snobbiest Town in The Snobbiest State in the N
#67
I agree, Grunt. While I think Switch's idea is really cool and that, back in the day, these would have been amazing with a 'can... that's not what they were.

Mine is not only going back to original, but if I can get him to return my calls, it will go to AJ Brown (the original builder at Crane) to make it as close as possible to original.

That said, there are probably some chamber and other 'tweaks' that can be done some 30 years later.... that don't dramatically change the core.

Cheers,

Sirhr

P.S. I believe some of these were threaded and used a KAC suppressor. But I don't know if it was cut back to 16". But I think some of these were modified while in inventory.
 
May 25, 2008
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#68
The Mod 3 used the KAC suppressor. It wasn't threaded. When I get home from work tomorrow i have a picture that shows the donut used to attach the suppressor.
 

FatBoy

Chris Hayes, Nashville TN
Jul 29, 2001
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#69
The Mod 3 used the KAC suppressor. It wasn't threaded. When I get home from work tomorrow i have a picture that shows the donut used to attach the suppressor.

on snap. We getting a picture of a barrel that looks like an aardvark dick?

edit: mod3? (Mod5 maybe or did I miss one?)
 
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sirhrmechanic

Command Sgt. Major
Feb 23, 2010
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#70
Thanks Grunt!

Yes, any good info on these in service is welcome!

Makes sense that by the time they got to the Mod3, there was more going on.

And there is a lot of (for lack of a better term) mis-information about the whole Mk13 series on the Interwebs. But as Abraham Lincoln said "Don't believe everything you read on the Internet!"

By all means... post whatever you have! The new/old SH is going to be here a while. It's going to be a great repository for this kind of knowledge! Thanks in advance!

Cheers,

Sirhr
 

FatBoy

Chris Hayes, Nashville TN
Jul 29, 2001
854
290
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Nashville, Tennessee
#71
Gonna brag on these rifles a sec. Instead of the typical groups posted, here are 6-7 shots at 1250 yards. Took one shot each at the IPSC and half sized IPSC. Steel plate is 12"x12". This is with 230 OTMs in an A191 chamber.
20170508_201857.jpg
 
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sandwarrior

Gunny Sergeant
Apr 21, 2007
4,507
317
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in yooperland
#72
To me, I like a rifle as it should be. Not how the Gov't wanted it. I see a lot of good ergonomics, but lack of bullet performance added in a system. For whatever reason, the heads that ponder these things in the USA took way too long to realize what they had wasn't the best. Not by 100 years!

Cars on the other hand, I love to see original or hotrods finished out and lookin' good. As long as "lookin' good" doesn't totally preempt performance.

We're always faced with the "what do they need", "Isn't this overboard", "No, it's faster, it extends range" "Why don't we look for a more efficient bullet", "No! We simply need more power", "Wouldn't we want to look at the past and see where/why they are getting their speed?" "No!, we just need more power". "More power helps but why are the bullets hitting sideways at 1k?" "How are the Germans flipping upside down and firing at us?" "What is direct injection?" "I'm pretty sure if we change the pressurization point in this carburetor (pressurize to 130ci2rd manifold pressure) we can have full engine control through all 'G's'".

So, in light of that tirade, I thought I'd chime in as to what could be the best rifle ever.

M40A3 stock. Love the ergonomics, and it's not overbearingly heavy. Include a ten round mag, and replacements. Preferably Magpul. The cartridge might be a little different though. Either a 7mm-08 like I shoot, with a 1-8" twist...and a little freebore. Using 175/180 super high BC bullets. Or, use a 7.62x51 case, but chamber it in the 7.65 bullet and copy either the Mk.VIII or the Argentinian 174 gr. Ball (match). If you want to get serious the Russian 182 match. All better than anything we have in the 7.62. This often seems overlooked than for no other reason to simply overlook it. Meh, go with a 174 gr. Swiss GP11 174 gr. in .308 dia. for a proven 1600m bullet?

I like any of the top tier scopes that we could put on there. I'm partial to my 10X. But, that might not suffice overall. So, I'll go with the 5-25X variable in 50-56 objective. With a simple vertical and horizontal crosshair, delineated in consistent stadia. Mil for most, moa for most of the rest, and IPHY for us minority shooter types.

Then again, since this is a Mk 13 stock thread, lets put a mk 13 cartridge in there. Add the standards from the SA. A .30-338 AMU or .300WM. Again though, instead of going with the standard .308 dia bullet go with a bullet that is upsized in ratio from those .308-312" to the 220 gr. size. Take those 550+ BC's and upsize them into the heavier 700+ BC type bullets. Better yet, look at the new 7mm 195 and 197 gr. bullets. Still out of a 1-8" twist. Think what you could do launching these "super BC" bullets @ 3100 instead of 2700, 2800, even 2900.

All this power though, means nothing unless you stabilize them through the transonic. Like getting a roadster off the line, without floating it off the line and into the fence. In this game, it's sort of like drag racing, but you want all five runs to be within .003 thousandths of each other.

So yeah, I love the originals. They won't be in my "shooting repertoire". If I could change the originals to what I wanted? Some would only have a caliber change...and some improvements that you can't see on the outside. Others might have a complete makeover. I never fail to appreciate them, though, when I see them in a collection or a museum. Especially, when they are all pretty like when they first came off the manufacturing line.
 
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FatBoy

Chris Hayes, Nashville TN
Jul 29, 2001
854
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#73
I thought hard on building my mod7 into a 28 Nosler. That round would easily take me to 1 mile, maybe 2000 yards. In the end, I resigned myself to the fact that I don't have access to those distances so I stuck with a spec barrel. Nice thing about being a civilian again,,,, I can screw that bitch off and put whatever I want on at will :)
 
May 25, 2008
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#74
Ok Gents here it is. MK13 Mod 3 with a MK11 KAC suppressor. This is the same one that Chris Kyle used during his Ramadi deployment. It is attached with a donut to the barrel as its posted in the pic.
67.jpg




 

Attachments

May 25, 2008
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#75
Here is the MK13 Mod 5. It uses the AICS chassis and also the MK11 KAC suppressor. It is attached straight to the barrel with now donut.
SEAL_0408.jpg
Mk13Unsuppressed_zpsbaons3pq.jpg
 

FatBoy

Chris Hayes, Nashville TN
Jul 29, 2001
854
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#76
So on the mod3, the "doughnut was added for the KAC supressor pins to attach the mk11 can?

there is very little out there about mods 2-4, which makes me wonder if these were unit/armorer changes to kind of "run what ya brung" ?


thanks for the pics.
 
May 25, 2008
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#77
Yes for the Mod 3 the donut was added for the KAC suppressor. There really isn't known about any of the MK13 rifles period. Its not like the M40 series where some or most have used and shot with their time in the Corps. Not too many here have shot an issued MK13. I'm not sure what really is different with the Mod 0/1/3 rifles. We can all tell by the pics but few if have first hand knowledge.

Here are some pics of the Mod 2 if anyone doesn't know what it is. OD green AICS chassis (same as Mod ) 20 MOA MARS rail, Nightforce scope, Lijia barrel, and a muzzle device but I'm not sure who made the device. Bottom pic shows a device and was told on another forum that it is from Smith Enterprise but they were not the issued device.
15.jpg
119.jpg 120.jpg 124.jpg
 

Whiskey 2-1

Team Waffleiron
Aug 9, 2004
368
5
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New Orleans
#79
Yeah, that's Nick. From the look of the pic that is the old bus in the Rifles Only carbine pit. He brought his issue rifle there for a match or 2 before he got out. I have several of him from that match.

Doc
 

Whiskey 2-1

Team Waffleiron
Aug 9, 2004
368
5
18
New Orleans
#81
I'll try and dig some up later tonight. I assume you are interested in decent shots of the rifle? Because another sniper from Bat was there as well and I have some of him as well.
 

USMCSGT0331

Sergeant of the Hide
Mar 23, 2013
350
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#82
Mailed out 6 stocks this week, not many painted ones left! If anyone needs a stock, shoot me a PM and I can get you set up with something cool. Here's the stocks that went out today:


 

sirhrmechanic

Command Sgt. Major
Feb 23, 2010
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#84
So just talked to the Man Himself... AJ Brown. He'es going to do the build on my rifle! I'm to drop off the parts when I am out in Indiana in June.

He had a couple of interesting tidbits of information which are new to me and update some of the material I've found online.

First, the Mk13 Mod 0 rifles shipped with a Leupold Mk4 M1 10X scope, not a 16. All kinds of reticles were used as well. There was not much process control as he called it back when they were building these, so things could be different from batch to batch... even rifle to rifle. But he also said my scope, a 16X, was what they shipped on the .50 BMG rifles. And "in the fleet," lots of scopes got swapped around depending on mission and preference, etc. That it was both common and acceptable to find a 16X on the rifle, even though that's not how they left Crane. He also said that he always preferred the Mk4 to the Nightforce, which started to ship on some of the later rifles.

He was also not a fan of the Sako-style extractor.

Last, I was not sure whether the standard Remington triggers were used, but according to Mr. Brown, they were. He said that they 'worked them over' to improve break and smoothness. But no special trigger was added.

Assuming my barrel is ready when Lilja says it will be ready... (and I am sure it will be)... I should have this back to shoot in the fall!

Absolute pleasure to speak to Mr. Brown. Consummate gentleman! So looking forward to doing this project!

Cheers,

Sirhr
 

FatBoy

Chris Hayes, Nashville TN
Jul 29, 2001
854
290
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#87
Sirhr,

are you planning on sticking with the A191 chamber, going to the m248 mod1 chamber to use the 220, or?

To give you a visual, here is a 220SMK to the length of the magwell on the left, and .020" off the lands of an A191 chamber on the right. The M248 isn't as long as the mag follower round, but it's longer than the A191. That said, 230 OTMs shoot superbly, mag fed, in my A191 as do the Black Hills A191 loads.
IMG_20170512_083116_01.jpg





Chris
 
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sandwarrior

Gunny Sergeant
Apr 21, 2007
4,507
317
83
in yooperland
#88
sirhr,

That is some interesting documentation. It pretty much precludes that what I saw in the spring of '83 was a .300 WM though

Something to ask Mr. Brown if you have such an inclination, does he have any history on the "experimental" cartridges that were developed/used in Viet Nam? I know the 6mm SAW was developed, but never made it to the mainstream. Rumor had it that SOG tested the .243 Win, 6mm Rem, .257 Rob. .280/7mm Exp. and 7mm Rem mag. over there. They supposedly even tested the .300 WBY. All I've ever heard were stories, and the further back in time these go, the more it seems "official documentation" denies that any of it never happened.

The funny thing is, I grew up in an area where trapping fur was common. At about the end of the VietNam war, Sierra and Hornady released FMJ bullets in 6mm and .257 cal. The reason at the time was "fur trappers use them so as not to damage the pelts." Bullshit! I say, as no one I knew EVER used fmj's on pelt animals. And, in the quantities they came in, only the military would have ordered so many, and it was probably for testing. The 6mm's came in 80 and 90 gr. and the .25's came in 90 gr. only. It would be something if he knew of those projects. And of course, could talk about them.

I'm always interested in the projects that didn't make it. Good or bad, they are part of the history. As your article points out the Navy wanted a commercially viable round. Other rounds already in use, like the .30-338 (.300 AMU) weren't wanted.
 

sirhrmechanic

Command Sgt. Major
Feb 23, 2010
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#90
Anyone have the reamer print for the A191 chamber?
RWS: I've drawn a blank on this, but can ask AJ when I see him.

I did come up with a couple of possible leads, though.

First is this reference on page B1 of the document linked below:

"B.2.4 Weapons. Test weapons shall consist of solid barrels (no piston or transducer port) with barrel dimensions in accordance with the requirements of 53711-7057696. A minimum of two test barrels shall be used, with a maximum of five targets being fired upon by each test barrel (ten shots per target)."

http://usarmorment.com/pdf/300WM_load data.pdf

But I don't know if that is a A191 chamber.

I also came across a couple of references to the idea that the chamber dimensions for the A191 and the standard .300 Winchester Magnum are the same, but that the A191 has more freebore. So a standard reamer was used followed by a throater to get the 191 chamber throat long enough. But I can't find them again... Though this makes sense due to the longer bullets, it would also not surprise me to learn that there was a special reamer made.

When I find out more, I'll post!

Cheers,

Sirhr
 

buffalowinter

Rick Jones MAJ, SF (Ret)
Mar 17, 2014
723
724
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Llano, TX
#91
SirH, or anybody, perhaps you can ask AJ Brown, or whomever might know, what is the pound-force that the action is torqued to when installing a new barrel using a Surgeon action wrench?
 
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Mar 4, 2011
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Vancouver, CAN
#96
I should have a copy of the A191 print around. I purchased the reamer from PTG a few years ago to use in my Mk13 Mod 0 attempt. It puts a 190 SMK at about 3.500" to touch the rifling. Once I find it and scan it I will put it up here.

it was listed as 300 Win Mag A191 I believe
 

buffalowinter

Rick Jones MAJ, SF (Ret)
Mar 17, 2014
723
724
93
Llano, TX
#97
When this project first started, my initial plan was to make a "sort-of" Mk13 Mod 0 on a budget. I was going to use a Remington 700 Long range in 300 Win Mag, and a Grayboe Renegade stock(McMillan A5 duplicate). I found a MARS rail for cheap, because it was for a Savage 110, that I could modify to fit the Rem 700. Well, once this thread got rolling, I became hooked and bought the Navy stock and a Lilja barrel from USMCSGT0331. I ended up buying a Rem 700 action from Brownells, and while on a buying spree also found the Magpul DBM for their hunter stock for $68. Although not part of the Mk13 Mod 0, I bought it anyway to check it out. Well, I'm still waiting for the Grayboe stock, but I decided to make the factory 700 Long range stock more re-sellable, and work out any bugs I might encounter when modifying the Grayboe, i.e. installation of an accessory rail and cheek piece. Since this wasn't going to be a replica Mk13, I decided to go ahead and install the Magpul DBM. So here is the finished 1st iteration, waiting for the Grayboe A5 stock for the 2nd iteration, while the original build with the Navy stock, Mars rail, and Lilja barrel is still in its infancy.

Here is the finished first iteration. Modified Remington 700 Long Range with the modified HS Precision factory stock. It has a Matthews adjustable kydex cheek piece, MARS rail, Magpul Hunter DBM, and Anschutz accessory rail. It has a custom ATACS AU camouflage Cerakote scheme. I have fitted a Remington 40x trigger that I have highly modified. Not sure if I'll use this 40x on the Navy build, as some had, or just use a Timney. I mounted a Vortex scope with ADM mount for range testing. I have a Nightforce NXS with Badger rings for the Navy stock/Lilja barrel build.

I've done a little bit of range testing and load work up and was getting around 1 moa, but this will probably improve as I work up loads. One reason I split this into two seperate projects is that I'm curious to see how this factory barrel and action will stand in comparison to a custom 700 blueprinted action with Lilja barrel.
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sandwarrior

Gunny Sergeant
Apr 21, 2007
4,507
317
83
in yooperland
#98
Awesome rifle as usual, Buffalowinter. I'm interested for the same reasons as you in the comparison between the two. I have a feeling that when Remington makes their higher end guns they pay a lot more attention to quality. This includes sourcing higher quality materials for those builds.

Drive on!
 
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