Military Jeopardy

Strykervet

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A Lt with a compass?

While going thru Infantry Officer Basic course I got to see all kinds of Infantry officers. ROTC, OCS, and military academy. The VMI grads were good. Don't recall any Citadel grads. The West Point grads drove me fucking nuts. Night and day difference in attitude, discipline, and knowledge. I was fortunate and had a number of prior enlisted in my platoon so all of us mustangs hung out together and helped the new officers that wanted to learn fieldwork.
You got it!

Every enlisted infantry guy knew this when I was in. And it turned out to be all too true.

I've no shit experienced this, only with PL's because the BC was smart enough to let me (his RATELO at the time) handle the maps and shit. Our CO was pretty squared away. But all the PL's were fresh from West Point, every one. PL's getting lost, PL's taking the whole platoon up a fucking cliff for lack of understanding lines on the map, and don't ask the fucker to do a resection because that ain't happening. I used to get upset, then I learned to stay in the back and just laugh about it.

We put on the FTX for ROTC graduates before they got pinned one year. Those guys didn't know SHIT. We had a LOT of fun fucking with 'em though and I think they learned a lot from us, I hope they did anyway. They were a lot of fun to sneak up behind and "cut their throats" with a red marker, learned a lot about sneaking up behind people that summer.

So your turn!
 

sandwarrior

Gunny Sergeant
Apr 21, 2007
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OSHA? The -1B was steerable which apparently increased the risk of mid air collisions?
Close. The reduction of mid-air collisions allowed us to do what?

sirhr,

Yes, the 82nd had a number of deaths and injuries jumping into ft. Irwin that year. I remember that happening. However, that was not the real reason for the change. They were drug to death by high winds. The DZ/ground commander was at the "less windy end of the drop zone" The jumpers were put out in 20+ mph winds. Rumor had the winds gusting that day to 80 mph.
 

Foul Mike

Gunny Sergeant
Apr 18, 2001
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I remember New 2nd LTs coming out with us in a less than favorable light.
Even though they had been told by Flanker 6 {Bn. CO} that they were just along for the ride and to learn something, once in a while one would have to get his Officer Suit on and tell us how it was done. Never with a good outcome.
Most were good knowing they were just a private and keep your ears open and mouth shut and just learn, but some could not ever get that "Officer" shit out of their veins.
Had a lot of shots out for a "cloud" for the really smart ones to get an idea as to where you really were instead of listening to the Old Grunts.
Only 1 time were they within 700 m as to where they thought they were.
Most learned but some never did. God Damn, I hated those mission where you had to take a "Tag Along.
 

sandwarrior

Gunny Sergeant
Apr 21, 2007
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Put more men into a smaller area?
Not sure that's really an accessible piece of history to everyone. But, what you are saying is basically correct.

When I was in it was not allowed to jump both doors on a mass tactical jump. As Rangers, we qualified as mass tactical (number of people jumping). @buffalowinter had a post a few years ago showing his team about to jump. He and I were discussing what was going on with that. His team was about to do a ramp jump.

Anyhow, it was Okayed in 1983 to jump both doors at the same time if you used T-10's. It wasn't allowed if you used -1B's, as people would be much more inclined to run into each other. And, remember, it isn't just that -1B's were steerable, they went forward at 9-1/2 mph. So, when collisions happened, there was a lot more tangling than just the T-10's which were pretty much just going down.
 
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Thumper580

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Great piece of history sirhr!

One of the XO's at the 1st Rgr Bn, when I was in, was a VMI grad. Talk about competent! He finished his career as a Lt. Gen. Then became CEO and President of one of the largest civil engineering/construction companies in America.
I met an older guy at work who had a Citadel water painting on his office wall. He was in Vietnam and a marine. I asked if he saw action.... He said "yea". He was a company commander at Khe Sanh. He was a great guy.. amazed at how calm and cool he was all the time.
 
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sandwarrior

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Apr 21, 2007
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Seems like they are catering for the lowest abilities, with adequate training the steerable chutes should allow more to reach the target but training costs time and money.
There was a whole different philosophy coming on at the time. We jumped into Grenada at 500 ft. There is no point hanging in the chutes to get shot. Also, think of coming out of the plane with that much gear and it's a 250 ft. fall before the chute fully opens. Which means you hang in the air from 250 ft. There is no time to steer really. As you near the ground, you also have to release the ruck or weapon on it's tether.

BTW, the term I was looking for was called "Shotgunning both doors". I googled it and couldn't find it anywhere, but I did find a youtube on it:
 
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buffalowinter

Rick Jones MAJ, SF (Ret)
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Back in the day, SF jumped the MC1-1b because it was steerable. We normally only put 12 jumpers out on a DZ. We would often jump out the rear, off the ramp and exit as fast as possible. We would then do "In Air Assembly", the first jumpers out turning in the air toward the direction of aircraft flight and the last jumpers out "running" toward the middle where we would assemble in the air to land as close together as possible. An old SF cartoon shows the Jumpmaster briefing "remember when we land to spread out!". Conventional Airborne units jumped the T-10 to avoid collisions between inexperienced jumpers. It can get crowded up there. You can't really train conventional units to the SF standard...that's why we're SF. By TOE, the lowest ranking soldier on an A Team is an E-6 and everyone was required to qualify as a Jumpmaster. I had a good friend who I went through the Q course with, he was an honor graduate, and we went through Jumpmaster school together. It all became too much for him jumping 4 times a day and back then we actually hung out the door doing our safety checks, something no longer done. He ended up resigning his commission. Also, a Special Operations Jumpmaster is different than a conventional Jumpmaster. A Special Operations Jumpmaster is authorized to do "Jumpmaster Release" where the Air Force gives the command "Your Door Army" and then it is up to the JM as to where and when you jump, visually identifying the DZ yourself. Conventional Airborne units are only authorized for CARP (Calculated Air Release Point) jumps where the aircraft navigator identifies the DZ and turns the green light on telling the JM he is over the DZ and may exit his troops.

Old school door check

jumpmaster.jpg

New school door check


Ramp Jump MC-130 P Combat Shadow (That's an ATV in the center and note the URC 200 ground to air antenna sticking out of the ALICE pack)
MC-130P-Combat-Shadow-002.preview.jpg

Old School SF, "Admit nothing, deny everything, and make counter-accusations" DSC01156.JPG
 
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Strykervet

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Awesome info Sandwarrior and cool pics! Not going to selection will be something I'll regret until the day I die along with turning down the 1SG gunsmith job. Wow, who the fuck did I think I was? They use a T11 chute now because the C17 doesn't slow down as much as a C130 and the heavier guys were breaking too many bones, they fell like no-shit lawn darts.

Since we need a question I'll throw one out:

An FBCB2 is the battle computer used by the military but it requires three more items to make it really work. Name two of the three devices (or all three but the third is kind of obscure). Hint: you've likely used two of these three devices prior to FBCB2.

The FBCB2 is also what I consider to be the unspoken number one military invention of the century --you can't imagine the army without it once you get used to it and it's what makes Stryker units so effective.
 
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sandwarrior

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Awesome info Sandwarrior and cool pics! Not going to selection will be something I'll regret until the day I die along with turning down the 1SG gunsmith job. Wow, who the fuck did I think I was? They use a T11 chute now because the C17 doesn't slow down as much as a C130 and the heavier guys were breaking too many bones, they fell like no-shit lawn darts.

Since we need a question I'll throw one out:

An FBCB2 is the battle computer used by the military but it requires three more items to make it really work. Name two of the three devices (or all three but the third is kind of obscure). Hint: you've likely used two of these three devices prior to FBCB2.

The FBCB2 is also what I consider to be the unspoken number one military invention of the century --you can't imagine the army without it once you get used to it and it's what makes Stryker units so effective.
Whats's so funny is my "back in the day" mindset really is so far back in the day, I have no idea what those acronyms are! lol

added: what is a CVX-396 or other comsec device? (answer to what else it needs)
 
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Strykervet

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Shit, I either call 'em too easy or too hard... So the FBCB2 is a battle computer that shows where everything is on a map. It does a lot actually, but that's it in a nutshell. What's coolest about it is how it's now being used by joint forces, Marines are getting 'em (Marines are FINALLY starting to get some fucking gear that isn't a hand me down!).

So they only work when connected to EPLRS (Enhanced Position Locator Reporting System, a secure network, cannot be jammed, works line of sight and beyond) SINCGARS (SIngal Channel Ground Air Radio System, you old timers know of 'em as PRC 77's; Sincgars is what replaced it) and PLGR (plugger GPS unit). You of course need an ANCD to make ANY of it work an that has to have a good fill. Sincgars is a bad bitch and is a joint item.

Being a RATELO when I was in was getting to the point of being an actual MOS. We did have comms guys but they stayed at TOC. It was kinda funny, at the time their solution was to run EVERYONE through the schools, pick the highest grades and keep sending 'em until they bottom out. I made it all the way through, if they told me I was in the running for Batt. Ratelo I'd have fucked it up on purpose (I did get myself fired the first training mission, on purpose). But those schools were good for sniperey type shit too.

The CV (command vechicle, a Stryker with less people, more computers and radios and AIR CONDITIONING) also had the HI FREAK, hi frequency radio. This one would sterilize ass kissing 2lt's several meters out that didn't take the warning to back away. I got it working and first radio check was in Germany, then found someone in a firefight in Iraq (which was kinda spooky at the time). This radio was badass, nothing you can do with a sat phone you can't do with this radio.
 

Strykervet

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Whats's so funny is my "back in the day" mindset really is so far back in the day, I have no idea what those acronyms are! lol

added: what is a CVX-396 or other comsec device? (answer to what else it needs)
Wow, what? I had to look it up but didn't read up on it, had no idea where to start. Today we use an ANCD and it programs the fill into a radio and only radios with the fill will work. They are timed within a second or two off GPS satellites. This encrypts the entire network. FWIW, an ANCD is considered to be one of the highest classified sensitive items --you do NOT want to lose one of these EVER. Only army shit I ever used that had a no-shit self destruct button to be used in case of capture!

Did the CVX-396 have self destruct? Basically with ANCD you hit self destruct three times in a row and it wipes the fill (and I'm told it also shorts out and burns up the circuit inside, pushed the button twice but couldn't make myself hit the third time!).

So I'm guessing it needs a radio, possibly the PRC77?
 

sandwarrior

Gunny Sergeant
Apr 21, 2007
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Wow, what? I had to look it up but didn't read up on it, had no idea where to start. Today we use an ANCD and it programs the fill into a radio and only radios with the fill will work. They are timed within a second or two off GPS satellites. This encrypts the entire network. FWIW, an ANCD is considered to be one of the highest classified sensitive items --you do NOT want to lose one of these EVER. Only army shit I ever used that had a no-shit self destruct button to be used in case of capture!

Did the CVX-396 have self destruct? Basically with ANCD you hit self destruct three times in a row and it wipes the fill (and I'm told it also shorts out and burns up the circuit inside, pushed the button twice but couldn't make myself hit the third time!).

So I'm guessing it needs a radio, possibly the PRC77?
Where I looked it up, they had a radio. I didn't use it, So, I can't say what radio went with it. The CVX-396 was just the comsec device.

FWIW, the -57 had a mechanical fill. It had something like 24 pins that scrambled your transmission. Each was set at a different level. Beyond that, I can't tell you how it worked, not cuz I'm super opsec, I just dont' know.

Every check before you reset the fill, you hit the erase button. That would clear the pins back to their "neutral" position, which was all the way up, then we would reset them. Clearing them back to their neutral position was also a way to check the spring loading on the pins that they would spring back up all the way. This was in the day of transistors, and after tubes. But, before PNP and NPN type technology. Definitely before microchips...I think...:unsure:

Added: The -57 was heavy. About 17 lbs IIRC with all the necessary cable and spare battery's. But, still lighter than the PRC=77 which was 23 lbs. That includes both antenna's and two spare batteries.
 
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Sep 30, 2010
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Fucking ANCD. Got I hated that little black box. What a piece of shit. Shitty SINCGAR dropped fills all the fucking time. Seemed like daily. Any my vehicle was the only one with the FBCB2 system in the platoon. Drag out the ANCD and spend 5 mins reloading a fill if it fucking worked. Half the time the ANCD would glitch and not fill properly or would lose the COMSEC fill itself and become a blank box. Then I spent the rest of the patrol running SCPT (single channel plain text) and shacking coordinates and using internal codewords and Iraqna cellphones to keep contact. Maybe we just got a defective unit because Strykervet seems to love it. The FBCB2 system is the shit. (If it works)

And yes. You want to see the fucking world end, lose a ANCD. A platoon in a different battalion lost an ANCD with the realworld fill (not the training fill) while we were still at Ft Hood for train up. I have seen lockdowns for things like NVDs, rifles, etc but never seen a Brigade lockdown for a lost ANCD. They found the thing within an hour.

Glad to hear the Marines have the system and are up to joint comms now. When we had to coordinate with the 1st MEU it was with SCPT as the only way to comm.
 

Foul Mike

Gunny Sergeant
Apr 18, 2001
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Wrong so far.
It was an interesting idea they came up with for a lot of subjects pertaining to care of equipment and yourself that was put out in a form that young Draftees, and Lifers alike, would read rather than a TM and get the same information.
I wish I had kept a few copies, as they gave me Wood, not that I needed help at that as at the time I had a petrified Hardon.
There is your clue.
 

Foul Mike

Gunny Sergeant
Apr 18, 2001
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You got her.
Her name was Connie Rodd. There was also a black chick named Bonnie.
They put out these little monthly comic books called PS Preventive Maintenance Monthly. They covered all kinds of equipment.
If you Google her there are several articles about the magazine with all of the characters etc.
In the early years it was drawn with the girls all sexy and pretty through the 60s and 70s then they got all PC and covered them up.
 

sandwarrior

Gunny Sergeant
Apr 21, 2007
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You got her.
Her name was Connie Rodd. There was also a black chick named Bonnie.
They put out these little monthly comic books called PS Preventive Maintenance Monthly. They covered all kinds of equipment.
If you Google her there are several articles about the magazine with all of the characters etc.
In the early years it was drawn with the girls all sexy and pretty through the 60s and 70s then they got all PC and covered them up.
I can't say it was before my time, because I think I remember them.:oops:...:cool:
 

Foul Mike

Gunny Sergeant
Apr 18, 2001
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It really was kind of an ingenious idea in the fact that it put out information to the troops in a way that they would look at it and hopefully pick up something they didn't know in a format they were familiar with,[comic books]
"We don't have time for these fuckin TMs. What has Connie got on it?"
They were done by good cartoonists and the Girls always looked mighty fine, and rather risque, and what GI didn't want to look at pretty girls? even though they were cartoons and he might learn something? They worked well as all the young troops wanted to look at the pictures of the Girls.
You can Google it and there are a few things to look at that will fill you in.
I did not link anything as there are a few new tricks this OLD DOG ain't learned yet and probably won't, but give it a go.
Too bad PC caught up with that and ruined it, but is that not true of a lot of things? FM
 

sandwarrior

Gunny Sergeant
Apr 21, 2007
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It really was kind of an ingenious idea in the fact that it put out information to the troops in a way that they would look at it and hopefully pick up something they didn't know in a format they were familiar with,[comic books]
"We don't have time for these fuckin TMs. What has Connie got on it?"
They were done by good cartoonists and the Girls always looked mighty fine, and rather risque, and what GI didn't want to look at pretty girls? even though they were cartoons and he might learn something? They worked well as all the young troops wanted to look at the pictures of the Girls.
You can Google it and there are a few things to look at that will fill you in.
I did not link anything as there are a few new tricks this OLD DOG ain't learned yet and probably won't, but give it a go.
Too bad PC caught up with that and ruined it, but is that not true of a lot of things? FM
RE: PC...ya know if the feminists really wanted to make a point, they could've just said, "Ha, look at the girls teaching the guys..." But no, they gotta bitch about it. Like guys aren't ever gonna look at women like that (and girls look at guys too) no matter how business dressed and smart they are.
 

Strykervet

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We used to put naked girls in our SDM powerpoint presentation because it turned out to be the best way to keep a dark room full of infantrymen awake while talking about MOA and related shit for three days. It really worked and we used a porn star every fifth page or so.

Whoever came up with that idea back in the 60's had to be a grunt. Had to be. Because I believe something like that never would have made it through today's army, just too many pencil pushers and desk pilots before it gets to the guys in the field. Kinda like the pinup girls on WW2 bombers, that'd never fly today.

I wanna say I saw something like this though when I was in but it wasn't like the 60's stuff and it was just the one time.

My guess would have been Micky Mouse as I saw one like that somewhere and it just keeps coming to mind.
 
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Foul Mike

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You guys are right on with Connie Rodd and when I got to 5/7 Cav. 1 st. Cav Div. in 69 I was handed a M16A1, with the comic book, and told to go zero it.
We had an Outstanding Bn. armourer, RIP John McVicar. He could tell who needed help and who didn't and always went out of his way to make sure every soldier that came through got the training needed to give them a good chance at survival, showed each and every one how to take care of their rifle. He would some times muster a group to go out and learn the ways of the M-16 before they went to the Boonies. He was always Quick to take care of any problems that anyone had. He was a Great person.
Every rifle he issued came with the Comic book and God forbid, someone wadded it up rather than read it. He was all over that and they were in the Goon Platoon and on to more training under him until they understood what he was talking about. FM
 
Dec 2, 2011
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Probably not the response you are looking for but from FM 23-25:

1. THE SPIRIT OF THE BAYONET The will to meet and destroy the enemy in hand-to-hand combat is the spirit of the bayonet. It springs from the fighter's confidence, courage, and grim determination, and is the result of vigorous training. Through training, the fighting instinct of the individual soldier is developed to the highest point. The will to use the bayonet first appears in the trainee when he begins to handle it with facility, and increases as his confidence grows. The full development of his physical prowess and complete confidence in his weapon culminates in the final expression of the spirit of the bayonet—fierce and relentless destruction of the enemy. For the enemy, demoralizing fear of the bayonet is added to the destructive power of every bomb, shell, bullet, and grenade which supports and precedes the bayonet attack.
 

Strykervet

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When I was in the bayonet was something we got trained to use some, but it was during the bayonet course where you get this surge of violence and go full balls to the target. Violence of action was really driven home through that one course alone, IMO. So is the spirit of the bayonet related to violence of action being taught to soldiers?

Barney has a similar argument, perhaps more refined. Are we close?

Or do I have it completely wrong?
 

Foul Mike

Gunny Sergeant
Apr 18, 2001
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You are very close.
If some Drill Sgt. ever asked you what the " Spirit of the Bayonet" was you had only one answer, or you tried to do enough push ups to put the ground under you to below sea level.
Bayonet training was always torture as to a different kind of PT and it went on and on. Each time you made a thrust into the dummy you had better sound out loud and clear, or suffer.
There is only one answer as to what is the "Spirit of the Bayonet" and it is two words. At least when I went through BCT. {68}
It pissed off a lot of troops as they were being trained, and many didn't want to holler it out as loud as they could, but they did or suffered. Most times directed to an individual and not so much the squad or platoon. They were singled out and they either learned how to "sound out" or suffered more PT.
Two words.
 

Strykervet

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Oh FUCK I knew that!

Here's the whole thing the way I heard it. Commonly used to "take seats" IME.

Them: "What's the spirit of an Infantryman?" (I think this is what they told us to the best of my memory).

Us: "To KILL, KILL, KILL Drill Sergeant! And as a last resort, with cold blue steel, we will stab between the second and third rib and TWIST! ARRGHHH!!!!"

Them: "Take seats."

When the parents came to see their kids at infantry school graduation (which happened to be 9/12/01) and everyone locked up and said that, those parents faces just went slack, it was obvious many weren't expecting that. It was, uh, a little "TOO" hard for them.
 

Strykervet

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On the bayonet range, I got so into it I snapped off an M4 at the upper. Another guy, also a big guy from the south, he broke one too and they made us use dummy's after that. Yeah, we got into it. FWIW, I had a LOT of fun at Benning, in fact, it was one of the most fun moments in my life.

I bet in '68 there'd have been some problems with our cadences, we had this one that went something like "I wanna kill all the kiddies at McDonalds with Uzis" or some shit along those lines. And fucking your girlfriend through her trach tube on life support, that was my favorite I think.
 
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Foul Mike

Gunny Sergeant
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I would be willing to bet that some of our cadence songs were equal to yours or raunchier. It was a time of getting new people ready to go to Sunny Southeast Asia and kill gooks.
We had the Yellow Bird and all kinds of shit directed at Jody. Pop out Jody's eye and skull fuck him etc.
We also had one that wasn't used too much, Saigon River, one more river to cross. When sung by a company in march it was very easy on the ears and you would stop just to listen to it. I don't remember all of the lyrics, but it was nice, yet had some shit in it towards the end where you were coming across the river to rip people's heads off and shit down their throats or neck.
We too, had a big guy, clumsy and didn't know how to walk right but did learn to be light on his feet after much suffering, named Rosenthal,AKA Rosenthud, that broke a blade or 2 but was just handed another one and tortured as, "A broken bayonet isn't going to save your live." He learned and by the end of the cycle was an outstanding troop.
Toward the end of BCT we were having Pugil Stick training one day and the DS would always ask we trainees if we thought we could beat them and to bring it on. There was this one black DS named Williams who had been steady into Rosenthud's shit from the start to a degree that was to say the least,"beyond what was necessary."
Rosenthud called him out and told him he wanted a try at his cocky ass. The Thud had blood in his eye and was AMPed up for it.
The protective gear was put on and Cocky Williams stepped out into the pit, steady bad mouthing Rosenthud. Never knew when to shut up until that day.
The whistle blew and the combatants moved to the center of the pit whereupon Rosenthud delivered a blow to the head of Williams that probably got Williams a speeding ticket in downtown El Paso clear from Ft. Bliss.
Rosenthud was clear out of control and beat Williams with his stick until it broke, then grabbed Williams' stick and carried on.
It took the whole platoon to stop him as he was clearly going to shove the broken sticks up Williams ass and kill him. He had had enough and showed out what he had learned.
It happened REALLY FAST, it was but a blur, but we did get The Thud under control eventually but he was still after Williams and wanted nothing other than to finish him off. Williams was taken to the hospital in an ambulance and we never saw him again.
Rosenthal became a Soldier that day, there was no doubt in anyone's mind that he would KILL and nobody gave him any shit about the whole ordeal and never gave him any other kind of shit either. Give The Thud all of the room he wants.
 
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