Military Jeopardy

Strykervet

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Wow, nobody else chimed in?

So I answered too fast... Finished the documentary and meant to come back on here and change it, then one thing happened then a next, so now I'm finally able to answer it --been chewing at me all week too.

It was the airdrop of the bridge. First time a bridge had ever been airdropped, the Chinese blew out a 24' section of a narrow bridge on the side of a mountain with a near 1000' drop. They didn't know if the drop would work, if they could get it in place once dropped and if it would work once in place. Wow. Around 14,000 guys all marching to the bridge, being shot at the whole way, not being able to shoot back. What those guys had been through, just insane.

Still don't have an answer for the other, I can only guess. The only person that I know that may know it I can't get in touch with; he was there early 80's. Another guess: Exint pods, for extracting people using the weapons mounts on aircraft (or in other ways I suppose).
 
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sirhrmechanic

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Stryker got it!!!

Best call your friend on the People Pods.... ;-) It's arcane!

I can tell you that the guy who came up with the concept was Nick Brokhausen... He even created sketches of the concept...

Cheers,

Sirhr
And, no, it's not in his new book.... which is TOTALLY worth reading!

Cheers,

Sirhr
 

Strykervet

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Okay, so you don't get hit by friendly fire. Sorry. Otherwise it'd have been a good choice --the new ones are supposed to be radar deflecting but I don't know much about it or how or if they work. They are different though.

No, this is put out on top or sometimes the side to prevent being hit by your own guys.
 

Fig

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CORRECT!​
Germans and Brits shared captivity at K-Lines in Ireland








Curragh – the war’s most bizarre POW camp




During World War II, a Canadian bomber flying from a base in Scotland crashed in what the crew thought was the vicinity of their airfield. Spotting a pub, they entered to celebrate their survival with a quick drink but were stunned to see a group of soldiers wearing Nazi uniforms and singing in German. Even more confusingly, the Germans responded to their entry by shouting at them to “go to their own bar.” The crew was soon given an explanation: after getting lost they crashed in the Republic of Ireland… and now they were captured, just like the Jerries.






Having negligible military power, Ireland was a neutral nation during the war; Prime Minister Éamon de Valera went to great lengths to maintain that neutrality. As part of this policy, he made a deal with both the British and German governments: combatants of either country could be detained if found in Ireland and interned there for the duration of the war. Technically, the men were not prisoners of war but “guests of the State,” with an obligation on the state to prevent them from returning to the war. A 19th century military camp named Curragh Camp or “K-Lines” was designated to hold “guests” of both nationalities – along with a much higher number of Irish citizens who were imprisoned because they were considered a threat to the country’s neutrality, such as IRA men and pro-Nazi activists.

At first, authorities looked the other way when British aircraft crashed or emergency landed in Ireland, allowing the crews to make their way home. The appearance of a German aircrew in 1940, however, forced them to start taking their job seriously. Lieutenant Kurt Mollenhauer’s Focke-Wulf Fw 200 Condor aircraft was taking meteorological readings off the Irish coast when they got lost in the mist and hit a mountain, with two crewmen suffering injuries.







They were captured and taken to Curragh. They experienced some harsh treatment first but the Department of External Affairs quickly requested the army to improve their living conditions. With some Germans in actual custody, it was now also necessary to detain British pilots who landed in Ireland to maintain neutrality and the two sides had to be given the same treatment – preferably a lenient one to avoid angering Britain.






Between 1940 and 1943, some 40 British and 200 German military personnel were taken to K-Lines, mainly air crews and men from shipwrecked U-boats. In appearance, the camp was a regular POW camp with guard towers, barbed wire and huts built on short stilts to prevent tunneling to freedom, though the fence separating the British and German sides was a mere four feet tall. Unlike in most camps, however, the guards had blank rounds in their rifles and the prisoners were allowed to run their own bars with duty-free alcohol.

The British bar was run on an honor system, with everyone pouring for themselves and recording their consumption in a book. Prisoners were also allowed to borrow bicycles and leave the camp, provided they signed a parole paper at the guardhouse, giving their word of honor not to escape and to return in time. Pub visits, with separate bars for groups of different nationalities, evening dances with the locals, fishing and golfing trips and fox hunts were the norm, with one English officer even having his horse transported there from home and others having their families join them in Ireland for the duration of the war. Some prisoners ended up marrying local girls and one German prisoner, Georg Fleischmann, stayed and became an important figure in Irish film industry.






While both sides enjoyed the chance to sit out the war in reasonable comfort and without dishonorable behavior such as desertion, the Germans were generally more uptight about their situation. Despite being given some money to buy themselves civilian clothes for trips to nearby towns, the preferred to stay in uniform inside the camp, planted gardens, made tennis courts, held exercise classes. On one occasion, they even set up a court to convict a comrade for treason, though the defendant couldn’t be executed, as the Irish refused to furnish the Germans with a rifle and a single bullet. Sometimes, German prisoners sang Nazi songs just to piss off of their British co-internees. The two nations held boxing and soccer matches, with a historical record noting a German victory of 8-2 at one.






Escape attempts were rare. The Germans had no easy way of reaching continental Europe and the British had their own special problem, best demonstrated through the story of Roland “Bud” Wolfe. An American citizen, Wolfe signed up with the RAF before the U.S. entered the war, getting stripped of his American citizenship as a consequence. After flying cover for a ship convoy off Ireland, his Spitfire’s engine overheated and he had to land in the Republic of Ireland, where he was taken to the Curragh. Unwilling to sit out the war, he made his move two weeks after his capture, in December 1941. One day he walked out of the camp, deliberately “forgetting” his gloves. He quickly went back for them and left again without signing a new parole paper, so he now considered his escape to be a legitimate one. He had lunch at a nearby hotel, left without paying and made his way to nearby Dublin, where he boarded the first train to Belfast in Northern Ireland. To his surprise, his superiors were far from pleased when he reported at his base and he was quickly sent back across the border to the internment camp.






The reason was that Ireland’s neutrality was important not only to the Irish but to Great Britain as well. Though Churchill considered Ireland’s refusal to fight a betrayal, he understood that a pro-Nazi Ireland would have allowed the Kriegsmarine to use its Atlantic ports and wreak havoc on vital convoys from America. In order to guarantee Ireland’s neutrality, however, the British also had to play fair and prevent K-Line internees from jeopardizing the diplomatic status quo by escaping whenever they pleased. As a result, attempts were sparse: Wolfe tried to escape again only to be captured this time around as well, finally settling into the relaxed life of the camp. There was an aborted tunneling attempt and a successful mass rush on the gate, which the Irish decided was a “legal” escape and the men who made it back to British territory were not returned.






In 1943 it became clear that the Allies were slowly winning, British airmen were moved to a separate camp and secretly freed, while 20 Germans were allowed to rent residences in Dublin and attend the local colleges. All remaining German prisoners were repatriated after the war, ending the history of what might well have been history’s strangest, and possibly most comfortable, POW camp.







The story of the British and German prisoners living together in Ireland, hushed up during and after the war, only came to light in the 1980s, when English novelist John Clive heard the story from a taxi driver who had served as a guard at Curragh, and decided to research the matter for a novel.
 

sandwarrior

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Fig,

I didn't know that about Ireland. However, if you crashed or bailed out over Switzerland, you were taken prisoner. Germans, Americans, Brits, were interned there for the duration of the war. A lot of bomber crews from America and England.
 
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Strykervet

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What is a VS-17 panel.
That's it! Hunter's orange for the army, usually brown or green on one side and orange on the other. There's a new one that's not orange but is visible to IR and thermal, forget what they call it.

But I kinda like that "no drone" sticker, that's some funny shit. Imagine the guy in the Apache targeting the "armor in the open" scanning for his targets and sees that instead of the VS-17.

Some guys didn't have one at NTC and I called in "armor in the open" and they sent out two A10's and lit some shit up. Those guys were lucky those A10 pilots were hot shit and paying attention.
 

Strykervet

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Fig for the win! Man, if we had a "best of" or "hall of fame" on this thread, that one would be in it. That's some bizarre shit and a great question. I didn't know about Ireland either.

Here's one I just remembered that should be a good one:

How did Britain (actively) assist the Germans with carrying out the holocaust?
 
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littlehendrick

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Since this is a test of things that only military folks tend to understand.

What is often looked for (often in the motor pool) that refers to animal genitalia but has nothing to do with animals?

I tend to enjoy watching someone running screaming “does anyone have a....?”
 

sirhrmechanic

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Here's an interesting one I never thought about.... should be an easy one. But it was new to me!

Civil War battles are often called different things by North and South... My first thought was that this was simply a random thing... how the troops 'remembered' the battle. But, in fact, there is a specific reason for it.

I'll do this as a fill-in-the-blanks:

The North named battles after ___________ and the South named battles after _______________.

I never put that together....

Cheers,

Sirhr
 

sirhrmechanic

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Prone to hitting themselves on the nose with the bayonet? Or sword perhaps?
Precisely! A 'Split Nose' was an incompetent officer... the term came from chopping their own nose while trying to look all snappy doing drills... incompetently.

The other term was the "One-eared captain."

Since officers and sergeants were 'elected' by their regiments (or bought their rank)... military competence was not exactly a hallmark of all the officer corps back then.

Listened to a very interesting lecture from a VMI historian this past weekend while driving... that made the case for the success of Lee's Army of Northern Virginia. VMI did not tend to graduate cadets who went into the 'regular' army at the time. They owed two years service to Virginia for their free education, most of which was fulfilled by staying on campus to train the incoming 'rats' and cadets. Then they went home to be farmers, businessmen, engineers, lawyers... etc. Professionals in their community. But they had not only received a military education.... they had spent additional time teaching those skills. When war broke out, there were some 1500 VMI-trained... trainers... all over Virginia. As the regiments were state-raised and tended to stay in the areas where they were raised (one of the smart things the CSA did... kept Louisiana troops in Louisiana.... Virgina troops in Virginia... not always... but often) Virginia benefitted from a very well-trained core of officers who were not just trained to lead.... but were trained to train their army.... and experienced trainers.

Incidently, South Carolina (home of the Citadel) also benefitted from a similar system. Many other Southern States (and most of the Northern States) had a far tougher time producing soldiers... They got the job done. Though the North suffered throughout the war from "Political officers" whose only rank came from money or political position. And many Southern states had the same issues... rich planters and favorite sons became less-than-competent officers, but had spiffy uniforms and all the right connections at the social level.

But Virginia (and, therefore, Lee) had a big head start due to VMI's structure.... . And fewer Split Noses... as a result!

Cheers,

Sirhr

PS Another VMI 'factor' was that the school went out of the way to make sure its students came from every corner of Virginia. This was, in part, a political move to keep the school funded. If every district had students there... and alumni there... then every district saw the value when it was time for appropriations. And when the Civil War looked like it was coming... and the Southern Militias started training in earnest... virtually every city, town, village and hamlet had at least one VMI graduate in it... And guess who ended up training the militia and getting elected to an officer position? VMI grad... with training ability and military knowledge. In an era where militias were raised in towns and formed into local regiments, this 'salting' of the state was truly invaluable.... the 'train the trainers' mantra we have today in the military... was just as important back then, if not moreso!
 

sandwarrior

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Great piece of history sirhr!

One of the XO's at the 1st Rgr Bn, when I was in, was a VMI grad. Talk about competent! He finished his career as a Lt. Gen. Then became CEO and President of one of the largest civil engineering/construction companies in America.
 
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Strykervet

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I didn't know that about VMI or how the south regulated it's militias, awesome info indeed!

FWIW, some units DID fight away from home, my great... grandfather was from AL but was shot six months into 1861 in MO, most likely with or alongside Quantrill's Raiders. "Bushwhacker" was not a negative moniker in my family, didn't know it was actually a negative until recently. Coincidentally, his something-cousin was the second highest raking soldier killed in the war and would have been president had he not been killed (Grant said that, not me, and it's said it's one of the only times he was ever seen crying during the war). Birdseye McPherson was somewhat of a hero back at that time and how he died was stoic as hell, tipping his hat and wheeling his horse in front of the enemy. Interestingly, my grandmother passed on the story but time got the two confused as one person so it was the private who got shot (it pays to do your own legwork regarding your own history!). Found out we fought on every side in every conflict (where possible it seems) dating back to the Battle of Bannockburn. It makes total sense that our family motto "Touch Not the Catt Bot a Glove" translates to "Don't fuck with us"! Wish I'd known it all growing up but like I said, I'm the one that had to do the legwork.
 

Strykervet

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Along the same lines as a "Split Nose", what is commonly considered to be "the most dangerous thing in the army"? Hint: if you were in the army, you've seen one; if not, you probably were one.
 
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A Lt with a compass?

While going thru Infantry Officer Basic course I got to see all kinds of Infantry officers. ROTC, OCS, and military academy. The VMI grads were good. Don't recall any Citadel grads. The West Point grads drove me fucking nuts. Night and day difference in attitude, discipline, and knowledge. I was fortunate and had a number of prior enlisted in my platoon so all of us mustangs hung out together and helped the new officers that wanted to learn fieldwork.
 
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