Mammoth Sniper Challenge 2020 Discussion

Aroy87

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Jun 26, 2017
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Hey Everyone, I put together a detailed packing list for Mammoth as a provisional pass on Google sheets.
I was wondering if people could take a look and give me opinions. Feel free to beat me up on it, I'd rather have my balls busted than have my back busted. I have a lot of excel logic built into it although it is not complete. My most important goal is to cut weight.
If for some reason someone wants this formatting to make their own sheet I'll gladly share it, feel free to PM me for that.


Any help or thoughts would be appreciate.
Stats:
160lbs
5'7"
Secondary Shooter, 223 Bolt Gun
 
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slick19

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Aug 8, 2018
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It isn't terrible, It;s actually a really good start. But there are more than a few things I would drop.

Is the rain shell for your ruck? If so keep it- if it is another rain jacket drop it.
I would likely drop the base layers. It hasn't been cold enough the past two years in GA to justify them, especially if you're rucking around.
What is the run/gun bag?
I wouldn't bring knee pads unless you really really like them
I also would drop the camelbak and just bring a large nalgene- there is water everywhere.
I would also say to drop the hand/foot warmers
This is a three day/two night event, I would just change the batteries in your headlamp before you leave and not bring extras.
I also haven't had a use for gloves the past three years.
I would leave the deodorant in the car
I would also bring three mags for pistol and rifle. If the pistol goes down the easiest and fastest way to get it running again is to drop the mag and stick a fresh one in. Then I also like to carry an extra in case i'm having a really bad day. For the whole match I never shot more than one magazine of pistol in a stage, but I like to be prepared because I have had shit happen before.
Have you thought about what you're going to keep the ammo in? I would advise one of those small sil-nylon dry bags from walmart that come in a three pack.
I would also say to just bring mountain house/backpackers pantry/something freeze dried in a bag for food- you then don't need a bowl or plate, and it tastes pretty good
I would also add 2 more pairs of socks to the list
I would only pack one shirt, wear the other.

That's my .02. Ive been backpacking forever, and have shot this 3x. The first year I needed way more due to the cold. The past two it has been really mild for most of the match.
 
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slick19

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Aug 8, 2018
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Also, Go for the X5- it's heavier but you'll appreciate the fact that it is full size when you're shooting.

Is that 80gr load moving at abut 2800?
 

Aroy87

Private
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Jun 26, 2017
21
23
6
It isn't terrible, It;s actually a really good start. But there are more than a few things I would drop.

Is the rain shell for your ruck? If so keep it- if it is another rain jacket drop it.
I would likely drop the base layers. It hasn't been cold enough the past two years in GA to justify them, especially if you're rucking around.
What is the run/gun bag?
I wouldn't bring knee pads unless you really really like them
I also would drop the camelbak and just bring a large nalgene- there is water everywhere.
I would also say to drop the hand/foot warmers
This is a three day/two night event, I would just change the batteries in your headlamp before you leave and not bring extras.
I also haven't had a use for gloves the past three years.
I would leave the deodorant in the car
I would also bring three mags for pistol and rifle. If the pistol goes down the easiest and fastest way to get it running again is to drop the mag and stick a fresh one in. Then I also like to carry an extra in case i'm having a really bad day. For the whole match I never shot more than one magazine of pistol in a stage, but I like to be prepared because I have had shit happen before.
Have you thought about what you're going to keep the ammo in? I would advise one of those small sil-nylon dry bags from walmart that come in a three pack.
I would also say to just bring mountain house/backpackers pantry/something freeze dried in a bag for food- you then don't need a bowl or plate, and it tastes pretty good
I would also add 2 more pairs of socks to the list
I would only pack one shirt, wear the other.

That's my .02. Ive been backpacking forever, and have shot this 3x. The first year I needed way more due to the cold. The past two it has been really mild for most of the match.
Appreciate the input, if you noticed, the check marks turn off the weight for that item. I planned on messing with things and when you toggle the fields on and off it gives you live updates. I will certainly take all of this to heart and the link will remain as I modify and pair down some. If anyone wants to chat in depth and it does not seem relevant to the feed feel free to PM me.
 
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Aroy87

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Jun 26, 2017
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Also, Go for the X5- it's heavier but you'll appreciate the fact that it is full size when you're shooting.

Is that 80gr load moving at abut 2800?
I have not even bought the barrel but my previous .223 bolt gun (I sold a few years ago) I got a 77gr VLD to go a little over 3100 fps (hot load) but it was easily going 2950 so my plan was to get the 80gr ELD-M around 2800-2830 in a 24 inch barrel which I figure is a reasonable compromise for length, weight and performance.
 
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PrepareSmarter

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Feb 10, 2019
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Here is my ruck training plan so far. You can see by the elevation gain that my area is pretty hilly.
Any feedback? I reached 45# faster than expected, so now I need to change up the progression.
7064821
 

Dgucci

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Mar 2, 2018
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Would there be a benefit to using a hammock versus tent/bivvy? They look like they are pretty lightweight in general. This is assuming there are trees in the camping area.
 

PrepareSmarter

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Feb 10, 2019
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Would there be a benefit to using a hammock versus tent/bivvy? They look like they are pretty lightweight in general. This is assuming there are trees in the camping area.
After you add the tarp, straps, under quilt, and quilt/bag it's not that much different. To me, hammocks are for the summer.
 

Ted Bell

"Living the dream"
Minuteman
Mar 10, 2010
29
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6
For those who have done Mammoth before, could you share what a typical day is like with regards to the hiking? In other words from when you start in the morning how far do you hike in each leg, how much time do you spend while at a stage, and how many legs of hiking do you do in a day? I wanted to spend a Saturday simulating what a full day at Mammoth would be like physically gauge my training so far.

Thanks,
Ted
 
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slowlearner

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Jan 25, 2012
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Death Valley area...it is hot.
For those who have done Mammoth before, could you share what a typical day is like with regards to the hiking? In other words from when you start in the morning how far do you hike in each leg, how much time do you spend while at a stage, and how many legs of hiking do you do in a day? I wanted to spend a Saturday simulating what a full day at Mammoth would be like physically gauge my training so far.

Thanks,
Ted
Up before the sun. Walk 1-5 miles at designated pace. 5-30 minutes until stage brief the year at Arena. Get your stage brief. Each team rotated through on average 3 minutes per. I think we had 8 teams in our squad. Then 5-15 minutes later walk again.

I think Friday had 4 rucks, Saturday had 5-7, Sunday was 4 or 5 (memory is a bit fuzzy). I think my mileage was templated for 13 on Saturday.

All this data is based off the 2018 year at the Area Rain fest.

I didn’t feel rushed between rucks, I had time to re-tie down everything, crush some calories, and adjust layers. Or just be stuck sitting in the rain. I’d also stretch a bit during your breaks.
 

regnar375

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Dec 24, 2018
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Training is going well. I'm rucking at a 14.45 pace with 50 pounds. that's all walking, no running. I do two or three a week for 2-3 miles. I'm doing 1 or 2 5k's a week on the treadmill. two months ago I was at 45min plus. Yesterday I did 35:40. cant run the whole thing yet but working towards it. my goal is a 30 min 5k.

I have been rucking or running 3 to 6 days a week depending on my schedule. soon I will start incorporating some serious hill workouts and trail running (I havent run since I got out in 89!).

I'm pretty excited at my progress and even more at my recovery time, which is getting really good.
 
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slowlearner

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Death Valley area...it is hot.
Sounds like you are well on your way of the sufferfest of fun. Is that 14.45 on flat or rolling hills? I suck at going up hill, while some other people seem to be powered by them.

Training is going well. I'm rucking at a 14.45 pace with 50 pounds. that's all walking, no running. I do two or three a week for 2-3 miles. I'm doing 1 or 2 5k's a week on the treadmill. two months ago I was at 45min plus. Yesterday I did 35:40. cant run the whole thing yet but working towards it. my goal is a 30 min 5k.

I have been rucking or running 3 to 6 days a week depending on my schedule. soon I will start incorporating some serious hill workouts and trail running (I havent run since I got out in 89!).

I'm pretty excited at my progress and even more at my recovery time, which is getting really good.
 

regnar375

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Very light hills. I've got a lot of miles under a ruck with some awfully heavy weight so this is more about getting my legs back. I'm pretty confident I can get to a 13:30 with weight in the hills.

Gotta wiggle the hips going up the hills and take quick short steps while leaning into the weight.
 

glockgirl300

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Apr 19, 2014
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My hubby plans on doing the challenge next year with a buddy. I’ve looked around and I can’t seem to find pricing for the course? Their website doesn’t seem to have a lot of information unfortunately.😕
 

muddawg

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What do you guys do to keep track of your pace and distance on the rucks? I don't think my Garmin watch's battery (internal rechargeable) will last all the way through 3 days. The longest I've seen it last is about 7 hours on a 100 mile bicycle ride.
 

FishDr

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Garmin will replace and install a new battery. A local shop could possibly disassemble and do it - not sure I would trust that. You could get a battery bank to hold a charge and charge up all your USB devices. Mine is heavy, so will find a lighter one for next time. A third option is solar - but not recommended.
 

PrepareSmarter

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Feb 10, 2019
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What do you guys do to keep track of your pace and distance on the rucks? I don't think my Garmin watch's battery (internal rechargeable) will last all the way through 3 days. The longest I've seen it last is about 7 hours on a 100 mile bicycle ride.
Look at the Garmin Foretrex line. The 601 reportedly lasts 48hrs on 2AA batteries.
 
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Aroy87

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Jun 26, 2017
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Also, Go for the X5- it's heavier but you'll appreciate the fact that it is full size when you're shooting.

Is that 80gr load moving at abut 2800?
Any thoughts on lightweight holsters, mag holders and such for easy packing deploying? Just trying to optimize. Regards
 

Austinjunks

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Feb 2, 2019
28
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Savannah GA
Man, I really am looking forward to 2020!

I carried 65 rounds of pistol and 130 of rifle. I ran a Savage 10 in 308 as primary shooter (my partner was slotted as primary, backed out and ran a gas gun 2 weeks before the match). The biggest advice I can give is, if you are unsure about a piece of gear, leave it at home. I carried so much stuff I didn't need. I will be shooting secondary this year, running a 14.5 gas gun in .223 with a 1-6. Most every stage you run, you will be required to carry your gear with you. The round count they provide is pretty accurate, you wont have many, if any, shoot til you hit targets. I ended with 3 pistol rounds and 56 rifle rounds left over.

I know I'm scatter brained and all over the place, but I would love to share any knowledge I have. I'll attach a picture or two of the mass amount of junk I dragged with me.
 

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Rerun7

Furious George
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Feb 18, 2017
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Sorry for the remedial question but I can’t find an answer to this on their Facebook or site.

Is there an individual competition or is it team based only?
 

flatlander

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Does this match follow the rules of PRS divisions ie Production, Tactical, Open? If not can the secondary shooter carry a Semi while the primary carries a bolt action? I ask because my partner wants to use his Dept issue OBR while I'm planning on using my MPA.

Thanks
 

NGCSUGrad09

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Jun 6, 2007
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Sorry for the remedial question but I can’t find an answer to this on their Facebook or site.

Is there an individual competition or is it team based only?
It's a team match.

Does this match follow the rules of PRS divisions ie Production, Tactical, Open? If not can the secondary shooter carry a Semi while the primary carries a bolt action? I ask because my partner wants to use his Dept issue OBR while I'm planning on using my MPA.

Thanks
Run what you brung. Unless something changes, the secondary shooter has to run 223 or 308. Many teams run work gas guns.
 

PrepareSmarter

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Feb 10, 2019
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We did and saved the weight by not bringing a spotter. Also not all stages are setup to where you could use a spotter due to time or stage progression.
Good info. How valuable was having a tripod? Im interested in cutting weight and carrying trecking poles.
 

Austinjunks

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Feb 2, 2019
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Savannah GA
Good info. How valuable was having a tripod? Im interested in cutting weight and carrying trecking poles.
There were 2 stages were I remember tripods being very beneficial, I brought trecking poles and ended up not using them at all. The guys that did bring a tripod said it was worth it, I plan on running one in 2020.
 
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NGCSUGrad09

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Good info. How valuable was having a tripod? Im interested in cutting weight and carrying trecking poles.
It was worth it for a couple stages. Given the unknown factor we will always have one. We brought trekking poles too which help me with mud and for pacing. They weren't as necessary since we ended up being near the road most of the time, but if we had to run the tank trails it might have been rough to keep pace with the big packs.
 
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Aroy87

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Jun 26, 2017
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When you are referring to the usage of tripods which of the following do you mean?
1) As a main shooting platform (ball head/leveling base mount to rifle)
2) Means of rear support for the rifle
3) As support for binos/spotting scope

The reason I ask is I am looking at getting an ultra light tripod for use with my LRF Binos as I do not want to bring my full RRS rig.

Any thoughts are appreciated.
 

PrepareSmarter

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I'm wondering if the spotter will always be able to brace similar to the sniper. If not, I don't know how they will be able to give corrections without a tripod or stabilized binos.
 

teddy12b

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Reading this last page has really got me questioning what I'd been planning for my partner and I. He's a 53yr old fitness stud who normally runs an AK. The precision stuff is more my realm and I'll have the slower pace between us. We'd planned on me being primary with a 6.5creedmoor and him being secondary with a 308 bolt gun, but if the secondary targets are going to be 700 yards and in then I'm happy to switch him out to a precision AR I've got.

For training I do rucks when I get a chance and yesterday for example rucked two miles to a reservoir, inflated a pack raft and paddled a couple miles back home. It wasn't full loadout weight or anything, but it was a couple of miles. The best thing I've done so far is lost the weight of the rifle from my body. I've been really focusing on loosing weight in the last month and I'm down nearly 20 pounds just from that. I've been using the "Samsung Health" app and it has a walking/hiking part of it that will record your pace. When I throw on my pack and go I just hit start when I start and stop when I stop and it calculates the pace. Typically I'm in the 15:30 per mile range, but my pace doesn't seem to change much with the amount of weight in my pack. I'm more of a mule, and my buddy is more of a rabbit.

When I started all of this, I hoped my total loadout weight including everything would be 40# or less. Having packed up a very minimal loadout that I'm confident in for a january event I'm at 35# without the rifle. One of the ways I'm planning to keep the weight down is to go with 1 liter of water instead of a 3L water bladder and two 1 liter bottles. I don't think of this as a wilderness expedition and if water is plentiful and ready at each stage I'll just plan on topping off at each one. I've done 5 liter water loadouts in wilderness areas before when you don't know when the next time you'll see water is and that's a lot of weight I'd like to cut out if possible.

The round count and # of mags is still up in the air for me. I love the idea of cutting weight, but I don't want to be short on ammo either. For my pistol it'll be a glock 17 with 3 loaded mags. I think that should be fine. For rifle, my plan as of now is 120rds with 3 10rd mags and maybe one 5rd mag. All the mags and ammo may change based on the 2020 event.

I'm attending a Guardian Match in Michigan next month because it sounds like a good way to get tuned up on competition style of shooting before going into an event like the Mammoth. I'm hoping to work out any rookie mistakes there and then not make a complete fool of myself at Mammoth. We'll see how that plan plays out....
 

Aroy87

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Jun 26, 2017
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What is everyone using for pacing, time tracking and mileage? I am looking at a bunch of runners watches from Garmin as well as the Garmin Fortrex 601. Currently all my tracking is being done via stop watch and google earth route mapping and I'd like to get more accurate data.