LPVO with best 1x performance?

Nov 10, 2009
232
87
28
Mississippi
#1
Yes, I know I apologize for another lpvo thread. But wondering which one has the most "red dot like" performance on 1x. Which one has the best and most forgiving eye box and is clear on 1x? I'd like to keep it under $2k.

I've looked through the accupower 1-8 at the store, was not impressed with its 1x at all.
 

CSTactical

Sniper's Hide Vendor
Nov 18, 2009
5,849
259
83
Elk Grove, CA
www.CSTACTICAL.com
#4
Yes, I know I apologize for another lpvo thread. But wondering which one has the most "red dot like" performance on 1x. Which one has the best and most forgiving eye box and is clear on 1x? I'd like to keep it under $2k.

I've looked through the accupower 1-8 at the store, was not impressed with its 1x at all.
We'd be happy to discuss all the Pros and Cons of the various LPVO's, please call us at 916-670-1103 :)
 
Likes: jda2631

CavScout85

Online Training Member
Jan 22, 2018
208
161
43
WNC
#7
I'm on record as absolutely loving the primary arms platinum 1-8. The glass is about as clear as I have seen in a lpvo, and the 1x is as close as I have seen to 'true' 1x. The acss reticle is extremely fast, and given I have an astigmatism that always kept a red dot slightly blurry, I am actually faster with the acss.

PA1-8X24FFP-ACSS_11.jpg
 
Jul 10, 2013
159
6
18
#8
Yes, I know I apologize for another lpvo thread. But wondering which one has the most "red dot like" performance on 1x. Which one has the best and most forgiving eye box and is clear on 1x? I'd like to keep it under $2k.

I've looked through the accupower 1-8 at the store, was not impressed with its 1x at all.
Is daylight bright illumination important?
 
Dec 18, 2008
647
3
18
Back in KS
#10
S&B is IMO the best out there. Next I'd say is the vortex 1-6. I haven't got much time on the Kahles. The NF 1-8's I was a bit disappointed in. The dot was brightish but not as bright as I would like. I was most let down by the distortion at 1x. pretty solid fish bowl effect.
 
Jul 10, 2013
159
6
18
#12
S&B is IMO the best out there. Next I'd say is the vortex 1-6. I haven't got much time on the Kahles. The NF 1-8's I was a bit disappointed in. The dot was brightish but not as bright as I would like. I was most let down by the distortion at 1x. pretty solid fish bowl effect.
I agree on the fishbowl at 1x but my illumination is nuclear.
 

gamewarden

Full Member
Mar 19, 2012
335
11
18
41
#14
Swarovski 1-8 has a super bright dot (orange) and super crisp and clear glass.

Most of the LED LPVO (Trijicon) will only have daylight visible dots...not daylight bright like the Z8i or Razor.
 

gamewarden

Full Member
Mar 19, 2012
335
11
18
41
#15
S&B is IMO the best out there. Next I'd say is the vortex 1-6. I haven't got much time on the Kahles. The NF 1-8's I was a bit disappointed in. The dot was brightish but not as bright as I would like. I was most let down by the distortion at 1x. pretty solid fish bowl effect.
Was the NF 1-8 the NXS or ATACR?
 
Feb 10, 2013
217
16
18
Minneapolis
#18
Razor2 is pretty great. Had an Accupower and sold it. for a much less expensive alternative, I really like the Steiner P4Xi - it's pretty great at it's price point though I haven't used mine nearly as hard as I have the Razor.
 
Nov 10, 2009
232
87
28
Mississippi
#19
I'm not ready to buy just yet, going to start a carbine build soon that I'm wanting to try an lpvo on. Never used an lpvo on a carbine. Sounding like the vortex is a good buy, especially for the money. I may try a used one and if I don't like it, I shouldn't lose too much on resale.
 

Rasyad

RC Innovation
Sep 18, 2017
77
9
8
63
Berkeley, California
#20
I did a bunch of research before buying my Minox ZP9 TAC 1-8 x 24. True 1X red dot performance, very good glass, and wide field of view. Here is a review from a member HERE.
"Pros:
Excellent close quarters performance, probably the best 1-8x in this respect"

Too bad on your timing as I have one listed on the PX. That said, the market for LPV scopes is really soft so you should be able to find a good deal new or used when you are ready.

Rasyad
 
Likes: CSTactical
#24
We (Learning Firearms training) have seen a significant number of LPVOs in our courses, and we as instructors have been using LPVOs for over a decade. From my perspective, I have yet to find the perfect LPVO, but several have come pretty close. Honestly, most of the higher-end optics are very good and will fit the bill. I have my favorites, and right now my main optic is the NF NX8 1-8x, which is the brightest illumination I’ve seen yet in an LPVO (different illumination than the ATACR). My Kahles is an amazing scope, and it has a massive eyebox and a huge FOV. The illumination is bright, but it’s not “red dot bright” like with its sister optic, the Swaro Z6i/Z8i.
For the money, the Steiner P4Xi is one of the best LPVOs on the market and the illumination is RDS bright.
The Vortex Razor is without a doubt the benchmark for LPVOs. It does everything very well, but it’s heavy as a brick.
The Trijicon TR24 AccuPoint 1-4x is probably the best LPVO out there for daytime use. It is insanely bright and the glass is spectacular. It is also very affordable. The TR25 1-6x is also exceptional.

LPVOs we have/had/previously used or tested:
Burris XTR-II 1-5x
Bushnell Elite SMRS 1-6.5
Kahles K16i 1-6x
Leupold Mark6 1-6x
Leupold Vari-X II 1-4x
Leupold VX-5 HD 1-5x
Leupold VX-6 1-6x
NightForce NX8 1-8x
Sig Sauer Tango6 1-6x
Steiner P4Xi 11-4x
Swarovski Z6i 1-6x
Trijicon AccuPoint 1-4x
Trijicon AccuPower 1-8x
Vortex StrikeEagle 1-6x
Vortex Viper PST Gen2 1-6x
Vortex Razor HD Gen2 1-6x



What we have seen in class by students:
EOTech VUDU 1-6x
Kahles K16i 1-6x
Leupold MarkAR 1.5-4x
Leupold VX-R Patrol 1.25-4x
NightForce NXS 1-4x
NightForce NX8 1-8x
Nikon M-223 1-4x
Sig Sauer Tango4 1-4x
Sig Sauer Tango6 1-6x
Steiner P4Xi 1-4x
Swarovski Z6i 1-6x
Swarovski Z8i 1-8x
Trijicon AccuPower 1-4x
Trijicon AccuPoint 1-4x
Trijicon AccuPoint 1-6x
Trijicon AccuPower 1-8x
Trijicon VCOG 1-6x
Vortex StrikeEagle 1-6x
Vortex StrikeEagle 1-8x
Vortex Viper PST Gen2 1-6x
Vortex Razor HD Gen2 1-6x


We have seen more failures from the StrikeEagle optics than any other optic. It has very poor optical quality, the illumination is not daylight visible, and we have seen several lose zero and the ability to track. Yes, Vortex has a warranty, but the AttackChicken is a Chinese optic. Don’t waste your money. Buy quality from the start. Buy once, cry once.
Last year at a hosted Sentinel Concepts Practical Urban Carbine course, one of our students ditched his StrikeEagle 1-6x for his backup, which was a Sig Tango4 1-4x. The Tango4 on 4x was far more usable than the StikeEagle at 6x at all ranges...and this was in broad daylight out to 300yds.
The Steiner P4Xi is a far better investment at only about $100 more (when they go on sale).

The Viper PST Gen2 is not there yet. Our lead instructor is head of his PD’s firearms unit and they have 3 patrol/DMR rifles with the PST Gen2 1-6x, and 2/3 have been sent back for illumination failure. One of those twice. The glass is good, but the illumination dot is tiny and really not as visible as the Razor. They are looking at replacing them with different optics.

I have looked behind other optics as well. Plus, every optic that shows up in any of our courses, I get behind and use/shoot to learn how they work and what they look like. I can give you personal opinions on any of them listed above. I have yet to get my hands on the really top end stuff like the S&B and Minox, but I hope to soon.

If 1x capability with bright reticle is the primary need, the best optic at 1x is the Kahles. The best daylight illumination is the Trijicon TR24/TR25 or Swaro Z6i/Z8i. If you want the best of both worlds, and weight is not a factor, then the Vortex Razor HD Gen2-E is probably the best option without stepping up to a $2k+ optic.

Just my $0.02
 
Last edited:
Jul 10, 2013
159
6
18
#25
Anyone have experience with any of the new FFP Gen II Tango 6's with the capped turrets? Also wonder if Sig will release commercially the one that just won the Army Contract.
 

gr8fuldoug

Supporting Vendor
Jan 24, 2006
2,271
210
63
55
Old Bethpage NY
www.cameralandny.com
#26
We have an amazing opportunity for this brand new, discontinued Steiner Nighthunter Riflescopes with 4A-i Reticle, reduced from $2249.99 to only $999.99.

Nighthunter Xtreme 1-5x24
Initially designed for challenging European night hunting, the Nighthunter Xtreme series of riflescopes now give you exceptional all conditions clarity no matter where you hunt or what form of game you seek. Proprietary lens coatings created for harsh conditions deliver the best light transmission in the industry for sharp, high contrast images edge to edge, so you can pick out your trophy more easily and target more accurately. From North America, to Europe, to Africa, Steiner’s premium performance and nonstop reliability will not let you down.

The ultimate dangerous game scope, with true eyes-open 1x magnification for quick, accurate close range shots.

Magnification 1x-5x
4A-i Reticle
Tube Diameter 30mm
Length 11.5
Weight 20.4 oz
Item no. 6124
 

Yellowhammer

Sergeant of the Hide
Jun 9, 2018
124
30
28
North Alabama
#27
We (Learning Firearms training) have seen a significant number of LPVOs in our courses, and we as instructors have been using LPVOs for over a decade. From my perspective, I have yet to find the perfect LPVO, but several have come pretty close. Honestly, most of the higher-end optics are very good and will fit the bill.....snip
Do you publish your reviews anywhere? What are your thoughts on the VX-5HD 1-5 w/illumination?
 
#31
Do you publish your reviews anywhere? What are your thoughts on the VX-5HD 1-5 w/illumination?
No, not yet. We’ve discussed it and are trying to decide if we want to write it up, or do it by video. We are looking at expanding our online content, and review videos may be a way to do it. The hard part is doing justice to optics the way that guys like Ilya Koshkin and Big Jim Fish do.

The VX-5 HD is just “okay”; nothing about it really impressed me and it’s nothing special. The FOV was pretty good, and the FireDot single dot is very bright. The optical quality was where the let-down happened, and part of that is because I was comparing it to the VX-6 HD. The VX-6 is by no means the best 1-6 out there, but it had good enough optical quality that you could tell a distinct difference between it and the VX-5.
The VX-5 has some distortion around the edges, the light transmission isn’t as good, and the color fidelity was somewhat dark and muted to my eye. The two major sticking points were the noticeable distortion and the darker view where I really felt the light transmission was lacking. There was also noticeable tunnelling if I remember correctly. Not the worst optic, but for the money it was disappointing.
 
Last edited:
Jun 11, 2017
149
24
18
#32
The Kahles K16i has the biggest eyebox and most red dot like experience. Many of the other 1-8x LPV's aren't bad at 1x however and you're losing some features with the Kahles like 8x, ffp, a better reticle, and turrets yet the Kahles still costs 2k. Eurooptic has a show demo NX8 for $1450 ready to buy or not you should probably buy it before someone else does.
 

CSTactical

Sniper's Hide Vendor
Nov 18, 2009
5,849
259
83
Elk Grove, CA
www.CSTACTICAL.com
#33
We have some Kahles factory demo K16i's on the way to us if anyone is interested. These were mounted up for the trade shows but no live fire.
Kahles K16i 1-6x24 SM1 Reticle $1,515.60 Call 916-670-1103 to pre-order.
Kahles K16i 1-6x24 G4b Reticle $1,515.60 Call 916-670-1103 to pre-order.
 

Cotay

Private
Oct 4, 2017
46
9
8
#34
We (Learning Firearms training) have seen a significant number of LPVOs in our courses, and we as instructors have been using LPVOs for over a decade. From my perspective, I have yet to find the perfect LPVO, but several have come pretty close. Honestly, most of the higher-end optics are very good and will fit the bill. I have my favorites, and right now my main optic is the NF NX8 1-8x, which is the brightest illumination I’ve seen yet in an LPVO (different illumination than the ATACR). My Kahles is an amazing scope, and it has a massive eyebox and a huge FOV. The illumination is bright, but it’s not “red dot bright” like with its sister optic, the Swaro Z6i/Z8i.
For the money, the Steiner P4Xi is one of the best LPVOs on the market and the illumination is RDS bright.
The Vortex Razor is without a doubt the benchmark for LPVOs. It does everything very well, but it’s heavy as a brick.
The Trijicon TR24 AccuPoint 1-4x is probably the best LPVO out there for daytime use. It is insanely bright and the glass is spectacular. It is also very affordable. The TR25 1-6x is also exceptional.

LPVOs we have/had/previously used or tested:
Burris XTR-II 1-5x
Bushnell Elite SMRS 1-6.5
Kahles K16i 1-6x
Leupold Mark6 1-6x
Leupold Vari-X II 1-4x
Leupold VX-5 HD 1-5x
Leupold VX-6 1-6x
NightForce NX8 1-8x
Sig Sauer Tango6 1-6x
Steiner P4Xi 11-4x
Swarovski Z6i 1-6x
Trijicon AccuPoint 1-4x
Trijicon AccuPower 1-8x
Vortex StrikeEagle 1-6x
Vortex Viper PST Gen2 1-6x
Vortex Razor HD Gen2 1-6x



What we have seen in class by students:
EOTech VUDU 1-6x
Kahles K16i 1-6x
Leupold MarkAR 1.5-4x
Leupold VX-R Patrol 1.25-4x
NightForce NXS 1-4x
NightForce NX8 1-8x
Nikon M-223 1-4x
Sig Sauer Tango4 1-4x
Sig Sauer Tango6 1-6x
Steiner P4Xi 1-4x
Swarovski Z6i 1-6x
Swarovski Z8i 1-8x
Trijicon AccuPower 1-4x
Trijicon AccuPoint 1-4x
Trijicon AccuPoint 1-6x
Trijicon AccuPower 1-8x
Trijicon VCOG 1-6x
Vortex StrikeEagle 1-6x
Vortex StrikeEagle 1-8x
Vortex Viper PST Gen2 1-6x
Vortex Razor HD Gen2 1-6x


We have seen more failures from the StrikeEagle optics than any other optic. It has very poor optical quality, the illumination is not daylight visible, and we have seen several lose zero and the ability to track. Yes, Vortex has a warranty, but the AttackChicken is a Chinese optic. Don’t waste your money. Buy quality from the start. Buy once, cry once.
Last year at a hosted Sentinel Concepts Practical Urban Carbine course, one of our students ditched his StrikeEagle 1-6x for his backup, which was a Sig Tango4 1-4x. The Tango4 on 4x was far more usable than the StikeEagle at 6x at all ranges...and this was in broad daylight out to 300yds.
The Steiner P4Xi is a far better investment at only about $100 more (when they go on sale).

The Viper PST Gen2 is not there yet. Our lead instructor is head of his PD’s firearms unit and they have 3 patrol/DMR rifles with the PST Gen2 1-6x, and 2/3 have been sent back for illumination failure. One of those twice. The glass is good, but the illumination dot is tiny and really not as visible as the Razor. They are looking at replacing them with different optics.

I have looked behind other optics as well. Plus, every optic that shows up in any of our courses, I get behind and use/shoot to learn how they work and what they look like. I can give you personal opinions on any of them listed above. I have yet to get my hands on the really top end stuff like the S&B and Minox, but I hope to soon.

If 1x capability with bright reticle is the primary need, the best optic at 1x is the Kahles. The best daylight illumination is the Trijicon TR24/TR25 or Swaro Z6i/Z8i. If you want the best of both worlds, and weight is not a factor, then the Vortex Razor HD Gen2-E is probably the best option without stepping up to a $2k+ optic.

Just my $0.02
What were your impressions of the Bushnell SMRS? I was about to get the P4Xi but the found that I could get at an SMRS II 1-6.5x for about $120 more than the P4Xi's street price.
 

koshkin

Dark Lord Of Optics
Feb 22, 2006
1,457
709
113
Los Angeles
www.opticsthoughts.com
#35
No, not yet. We’ve discussed it and are trying to decide if we want to write it up, or do it by video. We are looking at expanding our online content, and review videos may be a way to do it. The hard part is doing justice to optics the way that guys like Ilya Koshkin and Big Jim Fish do.

The VX-5 HD is just “okay”; nothing about it really impressed me and it’s nothing special. The FOV was pretty good, and the FireDot single dot is very bright. The optical quality was where the let-down happened, and part of that is because I was comparing it to the VX-6 HD. The VX-6 is by no means the best 1-6 out there, but it had good enough optical quality that you could tell a distinct difference between it and the VX-5.
The VX-5 has some distortion around the edges, the light transmission isn’t as good, and the color fidelity was somewhat dark and muted to my eye. The two major sticking points were the noticeable distortion and the darker view where I really felt the light transmission was lacking. There was also noticeable tunnelling if I remember correctly. Not the worst optic, but for the money it was disappointing.
Thank you for your kind words.

You really should publish some reviews.

The hands on experience you have with so many of these and often at the same time is extremely valuable. If you want to collaborate on something, I will be more than happy to help.

ILya
 
#36
What were your impressions of the Bushnell SMRS? I was about to get the P4Xi but the found that I could get at an SMRS II 1-6.5x for about $120 more than the P4Xi's street price.
The SMRS has better glass and the eyebox is slightly larger, but the P4Xi has a superior illumination. The SMRS illumination is barely daylight visible, and on bright sunny days the illumination is ineffective. The P4Xi on the other hand is red dot bright. It depends on what you value for an optic. If I were outfitting an agency patrol rifle program, I’d go with the P4Xi due to it being a more complete package. If I were needing the scope for more lowlight or long range work, the SMRS would get the nod.
 
Likes: Cotay

mgrs

New Hide Member
Feb 18, 2018
51
20
8
#37
The Kahles K16i has the biggest eyebox and most red dot like experience. Many of the other 1-8x LPV's aren't bad at 1x however and you're losing some features with the Kahles like 8x, ffp, a better reticle, and turrets yet the Kahles still costs 2k. Eurooptic has a show demo NX8 for $1450 ready to buy or not you should probably buy it before someone else does.
Kahles has 4 reticles now in this optic. I did not find the SM1 particularly bright but the G4 and 3GR may be brighter.

I was not a huge fan of the SM1 and sold it to try an NX8, and would trade the NX8 to get the Kahles back (in a different reticle) in a heartbeat.
 
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