Loose thread protector at fault here?

Nov 30, 2017
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#1
So I shot a little rimfire match today that went from promising to disaster. Steel targets averaging 1-3MOA in size, 20 each at 50, 100, and 150 yards. Wind almost calm - 3/4" plastic-ribbon wind flags barely moving. Seated bench, bipod, rear bag. Easy-peasy, right?

Cleaned the first rack of 20 targets at 50 yards.

Dialed established dope at 100, then minor correction after sighters. Hit first seven targets. Then missed two. Wha...? The first seven pretty much flew straight back - hits were well-centered. No idea why I missed. In the remaining 11 targets at 100, I missed at least half of them. When I went out to reset, I found my hits were very low on the most of the targets - but a few were centered (the little targets are painted after each stage). The targets are loose, so they land where they land. Not telling the order in which they were hit.

Dialed in established dope on 150-yard stage. First sighter shot landed about an inch and a half left, second almost on top of it. Dialed correction. Three follow-up shots on-target within an inch of each other.

Nailed first three targets. Then missed about 2/3s of the remaining 17. There was tall grass/weeds on the berm 20 feet behind the target rack, so no splash to observe.

I had no idea why I had missed all those targets. Until I uncased my rifle (CZ 455 "Tacticool" barrel/action in MDT chassis). The thread protector on the muzzle was loose and had unscrewed about half to three-quarters of a turn.

So, guys, in your experience, could the loose thread protector have caused the 100- and 150-yard debacle?
 
Last edited:
Nov 17, 2011
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#2
each gun is different...and rimfire are notoriously finicky.....

however im inclined to blame the shooter more than i would a lose thread cap......especially if we are only talking about 1/2 turn.

my match rifle has a 14" sight extension tube.....my zero is hardly effected when i shoot with it on and when i shoot with it off.

chances are you either pulled the shot or you got hit with a gust of wind that the wind flags didnt pick up
 
Likes: tansinator
Nov 30, 2017
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#3
each gun is different...and rimfire are notoriously finicky.....

however im inclined to blame the shooter more than i would a lose thread cap......especially if we are only talking about 1/2 turn.

my match rifle has a 14" sight extension tube.....my zero is hardly effected when i shoot with it on and when i shoot with it off.

chances are you either pulled the shot or you got hit with a gust of wind that the wind flags didnt pick up
It seemed like a reasonable question last night when I posted it. Not so much now. But I work with this rifle a fair amount and scored ok (55 out of 60) last month. I understand well that .22s can get weird. and after nearly six decades of shooting bullets, pellets (singly or in clouds), arrows, etc., half of that in competitive settings, I understand the head game too.

But I wanted an excuse, er, reason.

I told my wife I clearly need a new .22. That'll fix it.
 
Sep 14, 2003
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#5
I told my wife I clearly need a new .22. That'll fix it.

That's my reason for a Vudoo...my others just aren't shooting as well as they should...hopefully, she doesn't notice when they don't disappear!
 
Jan 2, 2011
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#6
It could be a factor, as others have stated rimfires are a bit persnickety.

Out of curiosity was the the match at DPRC? If so, it has been my experience that the winds on that range can swirl a bit and even a light breeze can have you chasing your zero at the 100yd and 150yd racks.

The last thing to look at is ammo consistency and did something else possibly come loose on the rifle or in the scope?

Have you reconfirmed your 50, 100, and 150yd zero's yet?
 
Nov 30, 2017
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#7
It could be a factor, as others have stated rimfires are a bit persnickety.

Out of curiosity was the the match at DPRC? If so, it has been my experience that the winds on that range can swirl a bit and even a light breeze can have you chasing your zero at the 100yd and 150yd racks.

The last thing to look at is ammo consistency and did something else possibly come loose on the rifle or in the scope?

Have you reconfirmed your 50, 100, and 150yd zero's yet?
Yes, it was the DPRC match, and others said the same thing regarding wind. But I just didn't see the ribbons moving enough to justify the number of misses... it was blowing about the same as last month when I scored 19/19/17 my first time there. My ability to read wind is in its infancy, though. Others at the match thought the wind was pretty treacherous.

Ammo is Wolf Match Extra. Stats for 25 rounds: Average=1059/ES=39/SD=9. Bought two bricks of it (same lot) and will be using it for matches for awhile. At 50 yards, it will shoot 3 or 4 rounds touching each other and then one wanders off someplace. Yesterday, I was getting 1" groups on the 100 and 150 sighter plates.

I haven't checked the scope and rings yet. They're mounted on a DIP rail, which is exactly where it was mounted. The scope is a Vortex Viper PST Gen-2 3-15 mounted in Vortex/Seekins PMR rings; everything was torqued down to Vortex specs using a Wheeler FAT wrench (as were the screws securing the barreled action to the chassis). If they're loose after 300 rounds since I moved to the chassis, I'd be amazed.

So of course they need to be checked.

I guess it comes back to wind as the likely culprit.
 
Likes: bunsen27
Nov 30, 2017
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#8
To those agreeing that the rifle needs to be replaced... well the problem is my favorite toy store has been keeping at least one MPA 6.5CM rifle on the shelf and the thing just screams YOU NEED ME every time I get within a mile. But I already have a perfectly good 6.5CM. So many toys....
 
Jan 2, 2011
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#9
Yes, it was the DPRC match, and others said the same thing regarding wind. But I just didn't see the ribbons moving enough to justify the number of misses... it was blowing about the same as last month when I scored 19/19/17 my first time there. My ability to read wind is in its infancy, though. Others at the match thought the wind was pretty treacherous.

Ammo is Wolf Match Extra. Stats for 25 rounds: Average=1059/ES=39/SD=9. Bought two bricks of it (same lot) and will be using it for matches for awhile. At 50 yards, it will shoot 3 or 4 rounds touching each other and then one wanders off someplace. Yesterday, I was getting 1" groups on the 100 and 150 sighter plates.

I haven't checked the scope and rings yet. They're mounted on a DIP rail, which is exactly where it was mounted. The scope is a Vortex Viper PST Gen-2 3-15 mounted in Vortex/Seekins PMR rings; everything was torqued down to Vortex specs using a Wheeler FAT wrench (as were the screws securing the barreled action to the chassis). If they're loose after 300 rounds since I moved to the chassis, I'd be amazed.

So of course they need to be checked.

I guess it comes back to wind as the likely culprit.
I don't run the DPRC match anymore, but I'm the guy who designed and ran it the first two years. When I was choosing targets I went with the IDPA humanoids for several reasons, but one thing I especially liked about them was that they are ~1.5 tall as they are wide. The largest targets at 150yds are 6" tall but only 4"wide. Rimfire ammo typically does not have single digit SD and will exhibit slight vertical dispersion at distance due to MV, thus the taller target does not penalize the shooter for a variable they cannot control. However, wind drift at 150yds for most standard velocity ammo is right about 1" per 1 mph of wind when at 90 degrees. Thus even a slight 2-3mph breeze can push you off target. Factor in that the wind sometimes swirls hellaciously on that specific range and you will be scratching your head on "why did I miss that shot?!". :)

If you are within a 2 hour drive of Conover NC I highly recommend you make the trip over and shoot either their Aug 11th or Oct 13th match. Those guys are the originators and whom I heavily drew inspiration from for the DPRC match. In my opinion it is one of if not the most challenging rimfire matches in the country.

https://www.facebook.com/cvrpc.tsc.3
 
Nov 30, 2017
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#10
I don't run the DPRC match anymore, but I'm the guy who designed and ran it the first two years. When I was choosing targets I went with the IDPA humanoids for several reasons, but one thing I especially liked about them was that they are ~1.5 tall as they are wide. The largest targets at 150yds are 6" tall but only 4"wide. Rimfire ammo typically does not have single digit SD and will exhibit slight vertical dispersion at distance due to MV, thus the taller target does not penalize the shooter for a variable they cannot control. However, wind drift at 150yds for most standard velocity ammo is right about 1" per 1 mph of wind when at 90 degrees. Thus even a slight 2-3mph breeze can push you off target. Factor in that the wind sometimes swirls hellaciously on that specific range and you will be scratching your head on "why did I miss that shot?!". :)

If you are within a 2 hour drive of Conover NC I highly recommend you make the trip over and shoot either their Aug 11th or Oct 13th match. Those guys are the originators and whom I heavily drew inspiration from for the DPRC match. In my opinion it is one of if not the most challenging rimfire matches in the country.

https://www.facebook.com/cvrpc.tsc.3
Thanks for the useful feedback, Bunsen! Conover is 2.5 hours from me, so a bit of a hike, but I'll keep an eye on it. I am planning to do the 30-June rimfire match at Frontline. I better work hard on reading wind because, as you may know, that one goes to 300 yards.

Can you tell me where you got the steel for the DPRC match? It appears that the club has swingers with the same individual targets that are used at the matches; I would't mind picking up the swingers.
 
Jan 2, 2011
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#11
Thanks for the useful feedback, Bunsen! Conover is 2.5 hours from me, so a bit of a hike, but I'll keep an eye on it. I am planning to do the 30-June rimfire match at Frontline. I better work hard on reading wind because, as you may know, that one goes to 300 yards.

Can you tell me where you got the steel for the DPRC match? It appears that the club has swingers with the same individual targets that are used at the matches; I would't mind picking up the swingers.
The targets are from Magnum target in Arkansas. I ordered them direct without the base then I had a local fabricator make the frames and weld on the hangers for my personal targets. I'm not sure whom DPRC used to fabricate their current swingers, but I assume they acquired the targets from Magnum Targets.

https://magnumtarget.com/products/k...overs-rated-for-pistol-shooting-10-piece-set/

The best bang for the buck is the 10pc set with two of each size (3", 4", 5", 6" 9") I added the 12" ones for 250yds-300yds
Rimfire Targets sizes.jpg Rimfire Targets sizes.jpg
 
Sep 2, 2009
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#12
I don't run the DPRC match anymore, but I'm the guy who designed and ran it the first two years. When I was choosing targets I went with the IDPA humanoids for several reasons, but one thing I especially liked about them was that they are ~1.5 tall as they are wide. The largest targets at 150yds are 6" tall but only 4"wide. Rimfire ammo typically does not have single digit SD and will exhibit slight vertical dispersion at distance due to MV, thus the taller target does not penalize the shooter for a variable they cannot control. However, wind drift at 150yds for most standard velocity ammo is right about 1" per 1 mph of wind when at 90 degrees. Thus even a slight 2-3mph breeze can push you off target. Factor in that the wind sometimes swirls hellaciously on that specific range and you will be scratching your head on "why did I miss that shot?!". :)

If you are within a 2 hour drive of Conover NC I highly recommend you make the trip over and shoot either their Aug 11th or Oct 13th match. Those guys are the originators and whom I heavily drew inspiration from for the DPRC match. In my opinion it is one of if not the most challenging rimfire matches in the country.

https://www.facebook.com/cvrpc.tsc.3

Thanks Tom. Come on up and shoot with us if you get the chance.

We started shooting the .22 Tactical Steel Challenge in Conover, NC back in 2010 and we're still going strong. As I've said before, we were shooting .22's on steel before it was cool. Our format is a little different than your usual pop 'n ding rimfire match as strategy can and does come into play. Cash payout at each match and great end of season trophies. Didn't mean to hijack your thread Downhill' but come on up and shoot.

Thanks,
Steve Roe
MD .22 TSC Conover NC
 
Nov 30, 2017
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#13
Thanks Tom. Come on up and shoot with us if you get the chance.

We started shooting the .22 Tactical Steel Challenge in Conover, NC back in 2010 and we're still going strong. As I've said before, we were shooting .22's on steel before it was cool. Our format is a little different than your usual pop 'n ding rimfire match as strategy can and does come into play. Cash payout at each match and great end of season trophies. Didn't mean to hijack your thread Downhill' but come on up and shoot.

Thanks,
Steve Roe
MD .22 TSC Conover NC
Steve, where can I get info about the match - club location, entry fee, duration, etc.? I followed the link to the Facebook page Bunsen posted earlier in the thread and skimmed the page but didn't see that sort of info.
 
Sep 2, 2009
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#14
Steve, where can I get info about the match - club location, entry fee, duration, etc.? I followed the link to the Facebook page Bunsen posted earlier in the thread and skimmed the page but didn't see that sort of info.

Check out www.cvrp.org for club information. Entry fee is $25 Sign up at 9:15AM, shooting begins at 10:00. We're usually done around 2:00 or 3:00. We're taking steps to expedite the match. We've recently acquired a set of string reset racks we're going to incorporate into the match.

PM sent.

Thanks,
SR
 

Dthomas3523

Blind Squirrel
Jan 31, 2018
1,198
341
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South Texas
#15
Just bite the bullet and get a Vudoo. It's boringly consistent. If it doesn't shoot previously verified dope, its either me or a mechanical issue with something other than the barreled action.
 
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