Looking for nodes 308 Win

dyecocker1

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Jun 12, 2019
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I shot a bunch of rounds through my new rifle build the other day looking for a node. 1 shot each charge, .2 grain intervals. Went from 39.2 to 42.6 grains of varget under 200 20x bergers I see several, but not very wide. Should I keep going looking for something wider? . 2589 fps is already cooking for a 200 grain in my opinion, but I have seen no pressure signs.

28" Bartlein gain twist ending at 10
Varget powder
Lapua Brass
200 20x Berger

Below are the shots

grainsvelocity
39.2​
2335​
39.4​
2375​
39.6​
2399​
39.8​
2415​
40​
2417​
40.2​
2422​
40.4​
2457​
40.6​
2469​
40.8​
2480​
41​
2490​
41.2​
2495​
41.4​
2510​
41.6​
2538​
41.8​
2549​
42​
2561​
42.2​
2559​
42.4​
2569​
42.6​
2589​
1576363725849.png
 

dyecocker1

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Jun 12, 2019
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Will you also be doing an OCW?
I am not 100% familiar with OCW.
From here I will pick a node with velocity I like, move my target out to around 5 or 600 yards, and do a mini ladder test with charges near the center of my node and with several seating depths. Look for the least vertical spread and go with it.
 

stello1001

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I am not 100% familiar with OCW.
From here I will pick a node with velocity I like, move my target out to around 5 or 600 yards, and do a mini ladder test with charges near the center of my node and with several seating depths. Look for the least vertical spread and go with it.
So you're pretty much shooting at small aiming point from left to right shooting lower charges to higher charges. You're looking not only for tiny groups, but most importantly, vertical dispersion. You want to find a charge where the one below it and above it all shot very similar, vertically.

Below, you can see 36.8 to 38.0 are almost all impacting the same, vertically.
(Not my image nor my test, got off the internet)

Reloading.jpg

I'm sure someone could explain it better than I can. Nonetheless, it seems you have a gameplan already and that should also help you determine what load will be best. I'll restate that 39.8 to 40.2 seem to have very little spread, velocity wise. If you're fine with those MVs, it might be worth exploring some more.
 

dyecocker1

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Here is my group from the first time I went out with the lower charges. I wasn't really going for a group but was surprised how tight it stayed with almost 2 grain charge difference. This was 7 shots, I had 3 FTF the first time around for some odd reason. Usually that is a non issue, everything I have loaded since has went bang:unsure::unsure::unsure: This barrel has about 50 rounds on it now


Resized_Ballistic-X-Export-2019-12-12_16_15_30.468088_17147454909129[1].jpeg
 

dyecocker1

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Jun 12, 2019
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39.8 to 40.2
That does look like the easiest node to stay in so far, my issue is that the velocity is a little anemic compared to what I see could possibly be gotten out of it. I am a long/ELR target shooter so the faster I can go within reason the better. I loaded up a few more rounds working up to 44.6 grains. Id like to see what happens in the next node or two if pressures allow. My barrel starts at a 12 twist and ends at a 10. I am currently seated 4 thousandths off the lands for this initial testing. I had heard T rifling could help pressures, but I am almost 3 grains past max published data.
 
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stello1001

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That does look like the easiest node to stay in so far, my issue is that the velocity is a little anemic compared to what I see could possibly be gotten out of it. I am a long/ELR target shooter so the faster I can go within reason the better. I loaded up a few more rounds working up to 44.6 grains. Id like to see what happens in the next node or two if pressures allow. My barrel starts at a 12 twist and ends at a 10. I am currently seated 4 thousandths off the lands for this initial testing. I had heard T rifling could help pressures, but I am almost 3 grains past max published data.
Maybe try loading up further more and fire until you first see pressure signs. Then you'll know where pressure is for your gun. Boox max is total crap, max pressure is what your rifle tells you, not a book. Overall, it seems you know what your doing. Let us know what you and up with.
 

padom

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I have seen nothing but issues trying to find the center of a node going solely off velocity numbers.

Shoot an OCW and it will be evident. Ignore group size. Read here if you arent sure what to do

 

dyecocker1

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Jun 12, 2019
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I have seen nothing but issues trying to find the center of a node going solely off velocity numbers.

Shoot an OCW and it will be evident. Ignore group size. Read here if you arent sure what to do

I have had no issues using this method, but usually I find a more pronounced node. One reason I believe may be the relatively "light" caliber in an extremely heavy barrel.
Reading into the OCW test I see already that I would have been wasting rounds as the published data for max I found for my powder and bullet weight was well below what I will end up at it seems. Maybe I misunderstood
 

spife7980

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You do misunderstand.
Ocw is optimal charge weight, you’re looking for a charge weight where the charge weight above it and below it still impact at the same location in relation to the bullseye.

Who gives a shit what the computer numbers say if the bullet isn’t going where you aim it due to minute changes from last time.
Ocw is a method to try and negate those small changes and still allow you to hit what you want.
 

dyecocker1

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Jun 12, 2019
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Who gives a shit what the computer numbers say if the bullet isn’t going where you aim it due to minute changes from last time.
Ocw is a method to try and negate those small changes and still allow you to hit what you want.
I do not care what the computer says either, but you need to start somewhere. If had blindly done an OCW off the published load data maxes I would be well below what my rifle can handle it seems. I verify my nodes with 2 separate 5 round ladder tests at 500 plus, if there was changes you speak of my method will find it just as yours may. Everyone has their own way of doing things, I simply asked for advice picking a node
 

padom

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I do not care what the computer says either, but you need to start somewhere. If had blindly done an OCW off the published load data maxes I would be well below what my rifle can handle it seems. I verify my nodes with 2 separate 5 round ladder tests at 500 plus, if there was changes you speak of my method will find it just as yours may. Everyone has their own way of doing things, I simply asked for advice picking a node

They actually dont accomplish the same thing but I'll leave you to your method. Been doing this a long time, and I've tested these methods side by side multiple times.. never has charges picked solely off numbers landed in the center of a node. Some calibers, with very wide nodes like 6BR I've seen it not matter, but that's not the norm.

I thought about explaining how it works and why, but you seem sure in your methods.. but not sure enough that you had to ask.what charge weight to pick. Carry on
 

supercorndogs

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I do not care what the computer says either, but you need to start somewhere. If had blindly done an OCW off the published load data maxes I would be well below what my rifle can handle it seems. I verify my nodes with 2 separate 5 round ladder tests at 500 plus, if there was changes you speak of my method will find it just as yours may. Everyone has their own way of doing things, I simply asked for advice picking a node
If "your method" is so well sorted what are you asking for advice for? Go finish your 308 ELR load development and come back and teach us how to do it.
 

dyecocker1

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You guys sure are tolerant. Jeeze. I have been around for awhile too, maybe the title under my name leads you to believe I am an idiot, I am just glad I dont need the title of keyboard warrior
 

padom

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You guys sure are tolerant. Jeeze. I have been around for awhile too, maybe the title under my name leads you to believe I am an idiot, I am just glad I dont need the title of keyboard warrior
Then yet again, why are you asking for people to tell you where your node is? We try to help you and now youre a longtime expert that knows exactly what hes doing. I'm confused
 

dyecocker1

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Jun 12, 2019
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Went from 39.2 to 42.6 grains of varget under 200 20x bergers I see several, but not very wide. Should I keep going looking for something wider?
Perhaps if you read it again you will see I never asked where the node was, simply should I pick one or keep going looking for something flatter with higher charge weights. The more I use this website the more I begin to shy away from it. @stello1001 Thank you for your input not trying to shove something down my throat. I guess I will continue on as planned and not worry about trying to find someone else with the same experience to offer an opinion and ending up with a bunch of pros telling me what I didn't ask for
 

padom

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Perhaps if you read it again you will see I never asked where the node was, simply should I pick one or keep going looking for something flatter with higher charge weights. The more I use this website the more I begin to shy away from it. @stello1001 Thank you for your input not trying to shove something down my throat. I guess I will continue on as planned and not worry about trying to find someone else with the same experience to offer an opinion and ending up with a bunch of pros telling me what I didn't ask for
Maybe if you listen you'll learn something. People that do this 5 days a week for a long time telling you what your doing is flawed and how to do it the right way...can only lead them to water, cant make them drink it
 

spife7980

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I do not care what the computer says either, but you need to start somewhere. If had blindly done an OCW off the published load data maxes I would be well below what my rifle can handle it seems. I verify my nodes with 2 separate 5 round ladder tests at 500 plus, if there was changes you speak of my method will find it just as yours may. Everyone has their own way of doing things, I simply asked for advice picking a node
Max loads for your personal rifle and that difference between published maximums has absolutely nothing to do with the ocw...