LMT MWS 6.5CM - yes or no?

Feb 5, 2003
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#1
Finally got sick of fucking with my AXMC piercing primers in 6.5, so I’m thinking about another gun. Are the 20” 6.5 MWSs shooting worth a shit, or is this going to be something else that will wind up pissing me off and requiring lots of TLC to get it to shoot well and function correctly?
 

Srikaleak

New Hide Member
May 11, 2018
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#2
I don't have any experience with them but seeing as they have a dedicated, well populated thread on SH I'd say they are good to go. Piston gas system amd switch barrel system is a huge plus in my eyes. Seekins, JP, LMT are highly regarded. Then I'd go KAC, Larue, Wilson for next tier. My personal opinion ymmv. I've got a JP and first impressions (no range time yet) were good.
 
Aug 11, 2013
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#4
My 20inch barrel should come in sometime next week. I’ll give you an update when I take it to the range. The current 308 barrel easily shoots sub moa out to 300 yards anything after that it’s on me.
 

hypno02

Not Politically Correct
Jul 23, 2006
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South Dakota
#5
They’re the most advanced AR10 on the planet. And arguably the most reliable.

I sold my LR Scar 17 setup for a LMT and I have not regretted it once. So what it’s 2# heavier. It’s easier to control with a LR optic and the controls are much more natural.

Oh yeah and not to mention you can swap out (in stock) barrels in 30sec. Good luck doing that with any other platform.
 

Strykervet

Gunny Sergeant
Jun 5, 2011
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Pierce County, WA
#6
I went with a KAC rifle a while back and now they make one in 6.5C so I'd get that if I could. They have cut rifle barrels and the lower is fully ambi but doesn't have parts sticking out of it, it's designed that way and built into the lower. Basically the whole thing is proprietary so it's a different rife than most. Doesn't have a quick changed barrel but it does have one locked in there damn tight with the URX4 one piece tube, which comes in keymod or mlok. The trigger is amazing and well built.

It's just a damn nice rifle. I looked at the LMT MWS the British accepted and thought it to be a nice rifle for sure, but just not what they were asking for it. GAP looked nice too but it still wasn't a KAC rifle. For a large frame semi, it's the best there is in it's class IMO. And I like the DI gas, especially in a precision rifle.

The suppressor for it works very nice too and like the rifle, was very well thought out. The mags are considered some of the best made. KAC doesn't make junk. Active military and vets can even get better pricing too. But the KAC is the one I'd recommend, maybe it's because I have one or because they've never let me down in 20 years doing business with them. And Eugene Stoner designed these, everything else is a knockoff. It comes with a ring bound manual, extra rail parts, etc., and with the cleaning/parts kit (recommended) and some mags, all you'll need then is a bipod and scope setup.

The HK rifle looked nice, but it too was overpriced and only comes in a 16" length and you can't get the G28 version or the modified US version, which would be nice. FN never really came through with their CSS or whatever and though it looked good, I doubt it's on par with the SR25/M110 rifles either, which still have a tighter group from the factory than any of the new rifles our military has adopted.

My $.02, and I'm sure there are other fine rifles out there too, I just think this one to stand out among it's peers. It was even recently voted as one of the top military inventions.
 
Jun 19, 2008
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#8
Sub MOA? Maybe you could show data for that, but I really consider 10 shot groups to be a real proxy of capability and my 18SS barrel will shoot 1.5 inch spreads with 175FGMM, which would probably support the claim of being a sub MOA gun with less shots and tweaked ammo, but I'd never really think of it as sub MOA.

Most advanced AR10? I'd go with most robust. A JP with a side charging, heat dissipator, adjustable gas and mod BCG might be able to claim the title. It would be interesting to get Frank's view on that after his time the JP. That said, if my life were on the line and in austere enviros, I'd take the LMT. It just runs.
 
Feb 5, 2003
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#9
Yeah, I’m not sure I buy there are any gas guns that can shoot a 10 round sub-MOA group on demand (not “I did it once,” but “Let’s go, I’ll do it right now,”).

I just ordered a 24” Long Range. So we will see.
 
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Triple D

Trigger Monkey
Aug 22, 2011
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Georgia
#10
Yeah, I’m not sure I buy there are any gas guns that can shoot a 10 round sub-MOA group on demand (not “I did it once,” but “Let’s go, I’ll do it right now,”).

I just ordered a 24” Long Range. So we will see.
Pretty sure there are. I’ve shot back to back 5 shot groups that were sub .6moa with no more than 1 minute between groups. No noticeable shift in POI other than me adjusting the scope. May try this on my next range outing.
 

Triple D

Trigger Monkey
Aug 22, 2011
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Georgia
#12
One I threw together on a whim. Pretty happy with it.

My GF’s first group, and first time shooting at 100yds was a .58moa group iirc. I followed it up with a nice 4shot group with the one shot drifting out of the same hole. Factory Hornady 140 eld-m.

F09CBCAE-99C9-41AB-ACCB-FF4F4F417534.jpeg 49E0DA12-2CA3-48DF-A41F-2DF06FACACCC.jpeg
 
Likes: wildcats

redneckbmxer24

Gunny Sergeant
Jan 15, 2005
5,565
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VA
#14
I don’t see what’s so unbelievable about a sub MOA gas gun, there’s plenty out there. Most people just have a hard time shooting a gas gun as accurately because of the lock time. You’re not going to just slap the trigger and shoot well.

I’ve had three MWS’s with the 16” chrome lined barrels and they all shot lights out, better than most other large frame rifles I’ve had or shot. Two of them rivaled a lot of the 308 bolt guns I’ve had, they would cut ragged holes.

The only thing I can complain about on them is gas in the face when shooting suppressed and there’s no adjustment in the gas block to tune it for just enough gas to run it.

I think they’re all around the best large frame that money can buy. Even more so now that they have the Mlok option and not just the cheese graters or the slick side.
 
Feb 5, 2003
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#15
I don’t see what’s so unbelievable about a sub MOA gas gun, there’s plenty out there. Most people just have a hard time shooting a gas gun as accurately because of the lock time. You’re not going to just slap the trigger and shoot well.

I’ve had three MWS’s with the 16” chrome lined barrels and they all shot lights out, better than most other large frame rifles I’ve had or shot. Two of them rivaled a lot of the 308 bolt guns I’ve had, they would cut ragged holes.

The only thing I can complain about on them is gas in the face when shooting suppressed and there’s no adjustment in the gas block to tune it for just enough gas to run it.

I think they’re all around the best large frame that money can buy. Even more so now that they have the Mlok option and not just the cheese graters or the slick side.
I read about a lot of them, I just never see them at any matches. When one does show up, they never seem to shoot “as good as a bolt gun.”

I ordered this one https://lmtdefense.com/firearms/6-5-show-special .
 

redneckbmxer24

Gunny Sergeant
Jan 15, 2005
5,565
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83
VA
#16
I read about a lot of them, I just never see them at any matches. When one does show up, they never seem to shoot “as good as a bolt gun.”

I ordered this one https://lmtdefense.com/firearms/6-5-show-special .
They’re definitely not as easy to shoot accurately as a bolt gun is. The chance of setting BR records with them is unlikely but there are plenty of them that shoot little bugholes.

That’s a very nice rifle, I have it’s little brother on order in 224 Valkyrie and due in to my dealer at any time now.
 
Likes: QuietShootr
Mar 26, 2005
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Honolulu,HI
#17
LMT or KAC, you can't go wrong...my KAC SR25 ,308 with the barrel set back to 18.5 and dimple fluting by Marvin Pitts is as accurate as any of the top shelf bolt guns i've had.
 
Feb 5, 2003
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#18
They’re definitely not as easy to shoot accurately as a bolt gun is. The chance of setting BR records with them is unlikely but there are plenty of them that shoot little bugholes.

That’s a very nice rifle, I have it’s little brother on order in 224 Valkyrie and due in to my dealer at any time now.
I’m looking forward to getting it. My only concern is that I might find the 24” barrel too long when I put a suppressor on it, but I guess it can always be cut back.
 

redneckbmxer24

Gunny Sergeant
Jan 15, 2005
5,565
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VA
#19
I’m looking forward to getting it. My only concern is that I might find the 24” barrel too long when I put a suppressor on it, but I guess it can always be cut back.
Yep you can always make it shorter. I've been considering ordering the same rifle but I'd order it with a 20" barrel. I know it's spec'd with a 24" but LMT won't have a problem swapping it out.
 

Triple D

Trigger Monkey
Aug 22, 2011
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Georgia
#20
“Let’s go, I’ll do it right now,”).
Not real happy since a few shots were pulled due to hot brass bouncing off of the divider and rolling up against my firing arm, but it still was 10 under moa. Filled up the mag with 5 more and shot them before a cool down. Got brassed on 1 of them. Biggest reason I shoot prone at that range, but it was pretty hot out today.

CDF2C143-F4D2-4DF3-A0CC-8FCBBFCED7F7.jpeg 9897D060-C2D8-4D28-869F-6C7281FEC3D0.jpeg
 

elfster1234

Gunny Sergeant
Jun 3, 2012
1,778
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#21
I had a 20” .308 chrome lined LMT for years and it was a reliable .9moa rifle. Once in a blue moon I’d average .7’s but was rare. Hands down one of the most reliable ar10’s But was heavy scoped. Wish I didn’t sell it and just got a new barrel for it. Anyway, if going 6.5 creed then I would get a JP
 

Acer76

New Hide Member
May 28, 2018
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Murfreesboro, TN
#22
I spent a lot of time researching the LMT systems. I came across some informative videos on YouTube but somehow ridiculously YouTube banned this content! If you’re ready to get pissed off, just dig in!

Anyway the content is still out there, it’s just frustrating to track it down.

Check out smallarmssolutions.com

And/or do a web search for:
Chris Bartocci, include LMT MWS, he’s put together some good stuff (says me ymmv)

He’s got a good background as an author and he’s been around the block in his career.

I may add some more convenient links when I get some time.

Please share your thoughts on his work. I got a sense he is still affiliated with LMT and I wonder if he’s completely objective in his evaluations. Regardless, he shows features, barrel swaps, configuration, etc.
 
Likes: QuietShootr
Feb 5, 2003
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#23
I had a 20” .308 chrome lined LMT for years and it was a reliable .9moa rifle. Once in a blue moon I’d average .7’s but was rare. Hands down one of the most reliable ar10’s But was heavy scoped. Wish I didn’t sell it and just got a new barrel for it. Anyway, if going 6.5 creed then I would get a JP
JPs are not military grade weapons, which excludes them from consideration for me.
 
Likes: hypno02
Feb 5, 2003
413
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#24
I spent a lot of time researching the LMT systems. I came across some informative videos on YouTube but somehow ridiculously YouTube banned this content! If you’re ready to get pissed off, just dig in!

Anyway the content is still out there, it’s just frustrating to track it down.

Check out smallarmssolutions.com

And/or do a web search for:
Chris Bartocci, include LMT MWS, he’s put together some good stuff (says me ymmv)

He’s got a good background as an author and he’s been around the block in his career.

I may add some more convenient links when I get some time.

Please share your thoughts on his work. I got a sense he is still affiliated with LMT and I wonder if he’s completely objective in his evaluations. Regardless, he shows features, barrel swaps, configuration, etc.
Please do!
 
Feb 5, 2003
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#26
That first one tells the story, clearly.

I had one of the first MWSs with a 16” CL barrel, and I wound up selling it for a SCAR17, since I thought it was too heavy for a straight fighting rifle. It shot very well, but I didn’t use it for precision like I will this one.
 

hypno02

Not Politically Correct
Jul 23, 2006
777
23
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South Dakota
#27
That first one tells the story, clearly.

I had one of the first MWSs with a 16” CL barrel, and I wound up selling it for a SCAR17, since I thought it was too heavy for a straight fighting rifle. It shot very well, but I didn’t use it for precision like I will this one.
This is a good point. But if you threw a 1-6 on the Mlok mws it'd be a perfectly manageable rifle. Esp if you had the LW barrel.
 
Sep 16, 2009
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#28
The issue with the MWS in 6.5 Creedmoor for me is the gas system. With a factory barrel it's not adjustable and none of the available adjustable blocks fit it. I think there is someone here who drilled and tapped the factory block for a setscrew to adjust it.

That said I have a Mws and a noveske 6.5 barrel fitted to it and a slr adj gas block. It shoots lights out.
 
Mar 10, 2005
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md
#29
I got a new Mlok chasis and 6.5CM barrel for my MWS and i like it, I dont have a ton of rounds through it since i was only on leave for a month, but with some American Gunner 140 HPBT, almost shot a clover length group in my first attempt. once I get back, I will do some load development with some 140ELD's, should be alot of fun.

I am happy with it enough to replace eventually sell my 16 inch CL and 18 inch SS 308 barrels and replace it with a SS 13.5 308 barrel and relegate its use for mid range stuff








 
Mar 10, 2005
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md
#32
I dont know man,

I did not have a chance to weigh them but putting both configured riffles in my hands, there is no real difference, the scar might be couple ounces lighter but it was wearing an aimpoint vs a 1-8 on the MWS.

if you are talking stock railed 16 inch MWS to a stock Scar with short handguard and original stock, i agree
 

bigjake83

Golden Shellback
May 19, 2013
2,462
107
63
Southern Idaho
#33
I don’t see what’s so unbelievable about a sub MOA gas gun, there’s plenty out there. Most people just have a hard time shooting a gas gun as accurately because of the lock time. You’re not going to just slap the trigger and shoot well.

I’ve had three MWS’s with the 16” chrome lined barrels and they all shot lights out, better than most other large frame rifles I’ve had or shot. Two of them rivaled a lot of the 308 bolt guns I’ve had, they would cut ragged holes.

The only thing I can complain about on them is gas in the face when shooting suppressed and there’s no adjustment in the gas block to tune it for just enough gas to run it.

I think they’re all around the best large frame that money can buy. Even more so now that they have the Mlok option and not just the cheese graters or the slick side.
There are adjustable gas blocks you just have to make them, easiest upgrade I ever made to my LMT! IMG_20150417_182711127.jpg
 

bigjake83

Golden Shellback
May 19, 2013
2,462
107
63
Southern Idaho
#34
I don’t see what’s so unbelievable about a sub MOA gas gun, there’s plenty out there. Most people just have a hard time shooting a gas gun as accurately because of the lock time. You’re not going to just slap the trigger and shoot well.
I agree with the above statement, it's definitely the Indian not the arrow!!

But!!!

My LMT was Fucking Shit Show from day one. The day I picked it up from the FFL I immediately noticed the receivers we're out of spec, the upper receiver was hanging off the left side of the rifle over 0.125! The BCG was hitting the receiver extension, and with further inspection I noticed the bolt face had chrome peeling off.

When I called LMT to address the issues the "engineer" was a complete Dickhead! And refused to help. I had to scream to HI Hell, and send photos in. I finally reached the VP and he apologized for the shit service, and sent me a return label, and I sent the rifle back.

Got a new rifle back in two weeks, that was perfect... But the MWS was still mediocre at best! Around 1.25-1.5 MOA with FGMM. I decided to up grade the barrel to a 20"SS, made a AGB, and used a JP SCS. After that and load development she was shooting .75-.5 MOA.

And here is the reason I sold it...
After conducting countless barrel Swaps and checking for accuracy repeatability, it just wasn't there, so the whole point of the MWS was moot.

The test I conducted were all in a controlled environment, the barrel and Receivers were always the same temp, same barrel install technique, same ammo/ Lot# and I even bought a expensive/quality torque wrench.

My 2¢... If your MWS is shooting tight, don't take the fucking barrel out!

At that point, I knew I could build a better set-up with multiple Complete Uppers and achieve the same goal. That was the Last "Store bought" Large frame AR I ever bought.
 
Jun 19, 2008
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#35
Drilling and tapping to tweak the gas would be a big win for the gun. Not to be negative, but the gun is well gassed. But that is what helps make is so reliable
There are adjustable gas blocks you just have to make them, easiest upgrade I ever made to my LMT! View attachment 6913902
That looks a bit above my Dremel tool ability. Any specs or smiths that do this?
 
Aug 11, 2013
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#37
Here’s your proof. Two, 5 shot groups with my new lmt 6.5 20 inch barrel. First group on the left, second group on the right, I ended up pulling a shot with the second group. These were with cheapo 140gr hornady gunner. I’m sure with prime 130gr I can tighten the group up a bit more. The barrel has less than 100 rounds through it as today was its first break in.
 

Attachments

Likes: QuietShootr
Feb 5, 2003
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#38
Here’s your proof. Two, 5 shot groups with my new lmt 6.5 20 inch barrel. First group on the left, second group on the right, I ended up pulling a shot with the second group. These were with cheapo 140gr hornady gunner. I’m sure with prime 130gr I can tighten the group up a bit more. The barrel has less than 100 rounds through it as today was its first break in.
Well good. I just switched my order to the 20”.
 
Aug 11, 2013
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#39
Well good. I just switched my order to the 20”.
I really wanted a 24inch barrel but after shooting the 20inch barrel I’m glad I went with the 20. Also, make sure you remove all the grease from the bolts and hand guard, I cleaned it out on three separate occasions. I also used a good craftsman torque wrench to make sure that the bolts were tighten to 140lbs.
 
Likes: QuietShootr
Feb 5, 2003
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#40
I really wanted a 24inch barrel but after shooting the 20inch barrel I’m glad I went with the 20. Also, make sure you remove all the grease from the bolts and hand guard, I cleaned it out on three separate occasions. I also used a good craftsman torque wrench to make sure that the bolts were tighten to 140lbs.
Have you tried any 147s or 150s yet?
 
Dec 30, 2017
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#41
The 6.5 CM and .260 REM are more dependent on barrel length than the 308. I'd expect you'd see quite a bit of velocity drop off in the typical 16 and 18 inch barrel lengths folks are favoring in 308's. I'm sure they'd have less wind drift at distance, than a 308, with the same barrel length, but you'd also have less barrel life and wouldn't really be coming close to the potential of the cartridge for long range with a shorter barrel. That is one of the great things about the 308, its efficient. Not saying its a bad idea I've thought of it myself.
 
Feb 5, 2003
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#43
The 6.5 CM and .260 REM are more dependent on barrel length than the 308. I'd expect you'd see quite a bit of velocity drop off in the typical 16 and 18 inch barrel lengths folks are favoring in 308's. I'm sure they'd have less wind drift at distance, than a 308, with the same barrel length, but you'd also have less barrel life and wouldn't really be coming close to the potential of the cartridge for long range with a shorter barrel. That is one of the great things about the 308, its efficient. Not saying its a bad idea I've thought of it myself.
This is good information:

https://rifleshooter.com/2016/02/6-...el-length-on-velocity-cutting-up-a-creedmoor/

“With the 120 A-MAX, there is little lost as the barrel length decreases from 27″ to 24″ inside of 800 yards. At 1,000 yards, 0.3 mils of elevation and 0.1 mils of drift are sacrificed. Note the 6.5 Creedmoor 120 grain A-MAX with a 16″ barrel shoots inside of the 308 Winchester 175 grain SMK with a 22″ barrel at 1,000 yards!”
 
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