LMT .308 MWS

Nice shooting, how are you shooting (prone with a bipod and rear bag, off the bench with bags, something else)? I take it you like the 24" barrel, what was you thinking on length? I also have a question about recoil and muzzle rise. I understand the recoil is less with a 6.5 Creedmoor than the 308 so my questions are more about muzzle rise. What muzzzle device are you are using and are you able to spot your impacts?

My plan is to order a 20" barrel on Tuesday as I like the more compact length. My thinnking is that I am certainly going to spend more time carrying the rifle around than actually shooting out to or past 1000 yds for the next couple years. Also, I think that at my relatively novice level learninng to call the wind is going to be a much bigger factor in terms of hit probibility than the velosity difference between a 20" and 24" barrel. Thoughts?

Thanks,
Rasyad
Thanks for the compliments but I know I can shoot this thing better. Just need to get behind it some more. Finding the time is hard.

These groups were shot off a picknick table with a bipod and rear bag of sorts. I usually shoot prone off a bipod with out a bag.

Yes, I felt the 20” barrel was cheating the 6.5 out of its capabilities. I will say the 24” makes it a long heavy pig now. I’m running the factory LMT 3 prong flash hider. I went with the 24” even though it make it really long figuring if needed it could always be cut down and rethreaded. Recoil is very tolerable. My rifle is running an MGI rate reducing buffer and limb saver recoil pad on the Magpul ACS stock. I love those recoil pads as they absorb more recoil impulse and they have a “tacky” texture to them which keeps them more solidly planted vs the stock Magpul piece. I think recoil is soft enough I don’t think it will be a problem spotting your hits, especially at distance. Honestly, I only have 32 rounds through this barrel right now.

Shooting a 6.5 makes it easier with wind calls since most projectiles will really buck the wind vs 308 or smaller cartridges.

My biggest complaint is the fact LMT used a standard rifle gas and not a +1 or +2 gas system on it. So far looking at the brass they don’t seem as worked over as I anticipated. But they are no where near as nice as what comes out of a bolt gun.

Not sure if I posted a pic of the rifle or not. It’s not as cumbersome as it looks, but it is definitely heavy. I’ll try and get it on a scale if your interested in weight. I know I’m not going to be kicking doors and clearing houses with it though! Yes, I know the door needs repainted. My wife reminds me all the time of the projects “WE” need to do around the house.

743DF50C-BB9A-467A-B7F8-C3721EDAE7CC.jpeg 743DF50C-BB9A-467A-B7F8-C3721EDAE7CC.jpeg
 
Likes: Rasyad

Rasyad

RC Innovation
Sep 18, 2017
112
11
18
63
Berkeley, California
Blackfoot 7,

Looks like we may end up with the same color. I have an SB ultra short on order in RAL-8000 and am trying to see if Federal Field Drab 30118 (also known as Marine Coyote Brown, LMT/B5 FDE according to a post on AR 15) will work.

Are you still happy with the RAL-8000 after living with it for a couple years?

Rasyad
 
Apr 9, 2014
84
35
18
Colorado Springs
Blackfoot 7,

Looks like we may end up with the same color. I have an SB ultra short on order in RAL-8000 and am trying to see if Federal Field Drab 30118 (also known as Marine Coyote Brown, LMT/B5 FDE according to a post on AR 15) will work.

Are you still happy with the RAL-8000 after living with it for a couple years?

Rasyad
At the time I just wanted something that would stand-out in an endless sea of black, FDE/coyote/taupe, OD, patriot brown, etc. I always thought it was an interesting shade of "FDE" albeit nowhere close to an actual sand/desert color, yet I was drawn to it given the jet black contrast, especially having seen it on HK subguns, carbines and handguns. The rifle still garners "oohs and aaahs" on the firing line, and there's not a shortage of admirers when I pull it out of the case, so if you can live with the unwanted attention then it's fine. For me it's just another tool in the bag. A flashy tool, but a tool nonetheless. I'm good with it and have no plans to change it up.
 
Likes: Rasyad
Sep 16, 2009
596
46
28
College Station, Tx
I had the issue before and I think I posted about it but it happened to me again.

The bolt catch peened the aluminum around the plunger hole resulting in the bolt catch not having any spring tension keeping it down. I haven't had any failures but noticed it was loose today. I had to work the plunger in and out for a few minutes to get it out then I took a Dremel with a very small ball cutter and removed the lip again. I do have a few chips on the rear edge of the bolt catch from the bolt or carrier grazing it.

I may email LMT and see if I can get a new catch at least. Just something to pay attention to. I doubt I'm the only one this could affect.
 

Rasyad

RC Innovation
Sep 18, 2017
112
11
18
63
Berkeley, California
At the time I just wanted something that would stand-out in an endless sea of black, FDE/coyote/taupe, OD, patriot brown, etc. I always thought it was an interesting shade of "FDE" albeit nowhere close to an actual sand/desert color, yet I was drawn to it given the jet black contrast, especially having seen it on HK subguns, carbines and handguns. The rifle still garners "oohs and aaahs" on the firing line, and there's not a shortage of admirers when I pull it out of the case, so if you can live with the unwanted attention then it's fine. For me it's just another tool in the bag. A flashy tool, but a tool nonetheless. I'm good with it and have no plans to change it up.
Thanks for your thoughts.

Rasyad
 

hitman

Sergeant
Apr 23, 2004
274
26
28
Fort Smith, AR
I may get one of these but I read some rather bad reviews on some other sites, so it gives me pause. What is the general consensus now? I read many of the posts here but did not want to look through 56 pages! They seem to be right around 2800 new so that is not bad for what you are getting in my opinion. The DD .307 runs $ 2500 with a shit stock, no irons, and probably lacking some other things as well.
 
Aug 29, 2007
63
9
8
East Gate, Wyoming
I may get one of these but I read some rather bad reviews on some other sites, so it gives me pause. What is the general consensus now? I read many of the posts here but did not want to look through 56 pages! They seem to be right around 2800 new so that is not bad for what you are getting in my opinion. The DD .307 runs $ 2500 with a shit stock, no irons, and probably lacking some other things as well.
Well, I have had my MWS for about 8 years now. I have the 16" CL barrel and a 20" SS barrel for it. I have run it suppressed for it's whole life, it works well for me. The only thing that I have changed on it was to a Giessele trigger and a heavier buffer to make up for the suppressor.


At some point I may upgrade it to the newer M-Loc style upper, but it is a low priority.
 
Took the 24” 6.5 Creedmoor out tonight. Between darkness coming, mosquitoes and rain I only had the chance to shoot 15 rounds. The first 5 rounds left me really disappointed. Had to get my head right and try again. The one low in the bulls eye was a called flyer. Then I tried again. All in all I’m damn happy with the results.

These were shot at 100 yards prone off a Bi-pod with no rear bag

There is one more PRS match coming up in a few weeks here I’m going to try and go to.

Breakdown of the rifle.
LMT MWS 24” 6.5 Creedmoor
Burris XTR II 4-20 H-591 Reticle.
Geissele High-speed NM trigger(NM spring set)
KAC bipod
Horandy 140gr American Gunner ammo.

C98DADE3-158A-4DE8-8A56-2F85D409C278.jpeg E6CDFE86-73F1-41B9-9B3D-859EE3A076D0.jpeg EACB0BB2-E6DD-4195-9ADD-79CC3778709B.jpeg
 
Mar 10, 2013
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Had my MWS for about 4 years. I’ve only got a couple thousand rounds through it, though.
It’s been flawless so far.
Mine has the 16” stainless barrel.
Only mod I have made was the installation of a Geissele Hi-Speed DMR trigger.
I run mine suppressed nearly 100% of the time.
I use a SureFire SOCOM can, so I haven’t had to mess around with different buffers.
 
Jan 23, 2012
106
0
16
63
Royse City Texas
Forgive me for not scrolling through the entire post...

Has anyone replaced the factory gas block with an adjustable?

This is my go-to gun for pig extermination and I run it almost exclusively suppressed. It's waaayyyy over-gassed suppressed and it would be great to bleed some off.

Cheers
 

pmclaine

Gunny Sergeant
Nov 6, 2011
8,230
5,327
113
50
MA
FTF - Failing to Feed.

My 16 inch full railer MWS has never been absolutely reliable since day one.

Probably should have thought about this earlier (2012) but shortly after buying the LMT I fell in love with bolt guns.

Wanted to get some muzzle velocity data today and I find my self straight pulling this POS on every round.

Hit the bolt release with one round in mag - Thunk - the round hangs up, I pull the charging handle back, round pops out of feed lips, I let go CH and chamber round.

Does it with LMT factory mags and brand new KAC mags I just bought.

Factory FGMM or my reloads, same, same.

My CQB spits brass like a full auto.

Where do I start to get big bro to do same?
As an FYI to my post above its running fine now.

Keep the CQB parts on the CQB and the MWS parts on the MWS all is well.
 
Sep 16, 2009
596
46
28
College Station, Tx
Forgive me for not scrolling through the entire post...

Has anyone replaced the factory gas block with an adjustable?

This is my go-to gun for pig extermination and I run it almost exclusively suppressed. It's waaayyyy over-gassed suppressed and it would be great to bleed some off.

Cheers
I've heard stories but seen no evidence. There is a member here who drilled and tapped his gas block for a set screw to restrict the gas flow. Others have used the sun devil adjustable gas key. I put a slash xh buffer in mine and it helped quite a bit. An agb for the LMT barrel would be ideal though.
 
May 26, 2017
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I had a 18" ss LMT barrel cut down to 16". I also had the original gas block removed. I'm guessing they knocked the pin out and used a hydraulic press to push the old one off. From there it was a perfect .875" under the old and I put an slr sentry 8 adjustable gas block on it. I never did get that barrel or LMT's replacement "SS Match" barrel to shoot very well. I gave up on the factory barrels and now use Jeff Hayes from river's bend gun company to spin up bartleins on the LMT barrel extensions. I have a .260 from him and my .308 barrel should be here soon. His .260 barrel shoots like no other gas gun I have ever seen.
 
May 26, 2017
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This is a 10 shot group with some random generic load I just through together to see how it would do. This is not the load I normally shoot.
lmt9.jpg


Here are some other targets I kept during load development with the .260 bartlein barrel.
lmt10.jpg


And here is an example of the type of stuff I was getting with a factory "SS Match" barrel.
lmt11.jpg

I am very happy with my LMT, except I just never could get any accuracy out of a factory barrel. This includes (2) 16" chrome lined, (2) 16" SS "match", and an 18" SS "match". The money is already spent on the rifle and an extra barrel. Once they get sent off to get a bartlein on, everything is great. It would be nice if the $600 factory barrels would shoot, but in my experience they just don't.
 
Likes: The DFC

hitman

Sergeant
Apr 23, 2004
274
26
28
Fort Smith, AR
This is a 10 shot group with some random generic load I just through together to see how it would do. This is not the load I normally shoot.
View attachment 6954439


Here are some other targets I kept during load development with the .260 bartlein barrel.
View attachment 6954449


And here is an example of the type of stuff I was getting with a factory "SS Match" barrel.
View attachment 6954450

I am very happy with my LMT, except I just never could get any accuracy out of a factory barrel. This includes (2) 16" chrome lined, (2) 16" SS "match", and an 18" SS "match". The money is already spent on the rifle and an extra barrel. Once they get sent off to get a bartlein on, everything is great. It would be nice if the $600 factory barrels would shoot, but in my experience they just don't.

Who did you have do the barrel for you? I was going to get one and keep the factory 308 barrel and get another one. Thanks
 
May 26, 2017
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No, I originally sent the barrel off to be done up by a different smith and it turned out to be a nightmare. But he did return my factory barrel with the gas block removed. So I had an slr adjustable .875" block sitting around so I tried it. Sure enough, butted right up to the shoulder lined up perfectly with the gas port in the barrel. Everything functioned fine and really did help reduce the gas. LMT claims they don't have an over gas problem with a suppressor. This is completely false. I even have a XH buffer in my MWS and the bolt was running so fast with my thunder beast ultra 7 that the magazines could barely keep up, the rounds were chewing up the front of the mags. I had a worse mag too that saw more use of the factory barrel. This would only happen suppressed
. mag.jpg
 
May 26, 2017
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Jeff Hays from Rivers Bend Gun Company. He does great work. Once you swap out the factory barrel, these MWS's are awesome. Its a shame you have to spend $500 to get a barrel extension to be sent off though. Once you have the amount of barrel extensions you need, your good and can keep sending them off.
 
May 26, 2017
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Nope, they will not sell you a barrel extension. Its kinda a pain in the ass to buy a whole barrel just for the extension, then pay for a bartlein and the work to chamber, thread, and profile it. My advice would be to buy a factory barrel and shoot it a bit. If you are happy with the accuracy, keep it. If not, then you have an extension to use and send it off. From what I have seen with the factory barrels is you get a good group every now and then and the next one is all over the place. Or you'll shoot 3/5 into one little hole and 2/5 will be 2" away in different directions. This goes for 5 different factory LMT barrels with handholds using 6 bullets and 3 powders, as well as multiple boxes of different factory ammo. I have never experience any sort of problem with my .260 bartlein from day one and now have close to 2000 rounds through it.

I read somewhere in a previous post that somebody had trouble with the spring loaded detent for the mag release got stuck. I also had this happen two different times. Somehow the opening of the hole gets peened over and the plunger can't be pushed out. Fixed that with a drill bit.

Another issue happened early on was the charging handle was coming loose upon firing and hitting me in the nose, by looking at the upper receiver you can see where it was rounded over from wear where it should have been a square sharp edge. A call to LMT told me to throw it in a mill and deepen that recess for the charing handle claw. I did and all is now well.

Another issue I had was when I cleaned the whole rifle and was working the bolt back and forth to spread the lube. I went to pull the charging handle one time and it would not go back. The chamber was empty and no magazine. I pulled the rear take down pin and when I opened the receiver the buffer and spring shot forward. It turns out that the buffer retaining pin had come loose and locked up the whole system. Not sure how this happened, but I put it back where it belonged and realized that it was barely held in place. Then played with the buffer tube and noticed it could rotate a bit. After looking closely I saw the thread relief for the back plate had been stripped in both directions allowing the buffer tube to rotate. I called LMT and talked to them about it. I mentioned that the tab on the buffer tube that holds the retaining pin down was not centered like on a normal buffer tube. I was told it was like that by design because it allows greater surface contact on the retaining pin. Yeah maybe in a perfect world, but once the tube started to wear, it locked up the whole rifle. LMT sent me a new buffer tube and all was well. I should also add that I never removed the buffer tube from the factory rifle and was still staked the way it came.

I know it sounds like I am bad mouthing LMT, but honestly I am not. I love my rifle very much once I replaced the barrels for accuracy, recut the upper receiver for the charging handle to catch, fixed the mag catch twice, and replaced the buffer tube after the whole rifle stopped working. LMT was very willing to help with all these problems. I spent the money on an LMT because "Failure is not an option" they say. I use and shoot my rifles a lot and feel like if there is a flaw to the system I'm going to find it. My LMT is honestly one of my favorite rifles, but it took a while to get to where it was. You would think after spending $3k on a rifle a guy wouldn't experience the kind of problems I have.

Once more, this is not a knock on LMT, I love my rifle very much and hope this doesn't turn into a pissing contest with somebody who throws it in their pelican case and shoots at a concrete range on weekends and says their rifle is flawless. I only posted this for informational purposes and hopefully others can learn from what I have experience. If anyone has any questions about what has happened please feel free to PM me.

lmt12.jpg
 
Likes: Blackfoot 7
Sep 16, 2009
596
46
28
College Station, Tx
Rather than buying a donor barrel Marvin Pitts can convert most any barrel to work in the mws. It won't have the ear to hold the gas tube so it's not quite as foolproof as with a factory extension but it works fine for me. I have 2 noveske barrels for mine that are hammers.
 

hypno02

Not Politically Correct
Jul 23, 2006
1,031
136
63
South Dakota
I have about 1,000 rounds through my MWS and it's easily the favorite rifle in my arsenal. (which includes an AI and about 7 other LMT's) Way too much fun to shoot. In all honestly I've never sat down and done a true accuracy test with match ammo. And I've yet to this day. Most of this rifle's shooting has been shitty 147/150/175gr stuff at man sized targets out to 600-800yds--which it excels at!

I got my hands on some grafs 175gr SMK 2nds. Turns out the OAL on these bullets varies greatly. Shot the hell out of em training as described above. I set up my die for FGMM length (can't remember it off hand) and started shooting with 44gr varget. At the end of the batch I some loads that would either bind going into a PMAG or simply wouldn't fit. Here are the results:

Top row: 175's that would bind in the mag but still functioned flawlessly
Bottom left: 175's that were so out of spec they would not fit in the mag. Had to hand feed them. (those 6 rounds have me very intrigued)
Bottom middle: My 178gr ELD-X hunting load. Looks like bambi will be in trouble once again this year.

These were all shot with a 16" chrome lined BBL. Nightforce F1 Md2.0. Surefire M300.

Is it overgassed? -- Maybe a little?
Am I going to change anything? -- Fuck no.
Am I excited to see what this can do with legit 175 SMK's? -- Fuck yes.



Please excuse the other impacts on the cardboard. That's me trying to potty train a 5.56 LMT to like cheap hornady 75's.
 

stalwart300

Sergeant of the Hide
Apr 14, 2018
108
14
18
I had a barrel converted by a company in Washington state. I would have to dig around to find the company name but they did a good job covering a barrel I had spun up by ga precision. The company had done the same as mentioned above.
 

Coffee_and_Pipes

New Hide Member
May 6, 2018
42
5
8
Denton, TX
This is a 10 shot group with some random generic load I just through together to see how it would do. This is not the load I normally shoot.
View attachment 6954439


Here are some other targets I kept during load development with the .260 bartlein barrel.
View attachment 6954449


And here is an example of the type of stuff I was getting with a factory "SS Match" barrel.
View attachment 6954450

I am very happy with my LMT, except I just never could get any accuracy out of a factory barrel. This includes (2) 16" chrome lined, (2) 16" SS "match", and an 18" SS "match". The money is already spent on the rifle and an extra barrel. Once they get sent off to get a bartlein on, everything is great. It would be nice if the $600 factory barrels would shoot, but in my experience they just don't.
Thanks for posting this. I’ve been going back and forth about an LMT, but was afraid to drop that kind of money on a rifle that doesn’t group well. I know they’re designed to run no matter what, but it’s nice to wring some accuracy out of them, too. If you’ve had the chance to shoot them, how would your custom-barrelled LMT to a GAP-10 or Seekins SP10? Thanks!
 
May 26, 2017
194
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Ive never shot a GAP-10 or a SP10. I would imagine it would shoot right along side a GAP-10 because they are both shooting bartleins and have the rest of the system all worked out. I really do think the solid monolithic upper of the LMT really helps with the consistency of the platform. There is no flex whatsoever and that massive barrel extension being clamped in also has to attribute to the repeatability of the system. I have been after an accurate AR10 for years. Did the DPMS route, did the piece it all together with quality parts route, and finally spent the money on an LMT thinking it would solve all my accuracy issues right out of the box. I get it out for the first time with 2 boxes of 175 FGMM and was immediately surprised that it was shooting about 2" at 100 yards. I tried every combo of hand load and never could get it to shoot. I sold the thing a month later. A couple months go by and I start missing the awesome LMT MWS. So I went and bought another one thinking maybe the first one I get had a bad barrel. Took it out and it did the same kind of thing, 2" or so at 100. I sent that barrel off to Jeff Hayes and from day 1 that thing has shot amazing. I needed another barrel extension anyway to get a .308 barrel so I figured I'd get a factory "SS Match" 16" .308. Shot like shit, so did the 2 replacements that LMT send because they agreed the barrel shot like shit. After playing this game for a while I gave up and sent it off to Jeff for a .308 bartlein. I really like the LMT MWS and they really do shoot well with the aftermarket barrels if you are willing to spend the time and money. If your looking for a super accurate right out of the box ar10 I would not recommend the LMT from what I have seen and go with the GAP-10 or the Seekins.

My buddy had Jeff spin up a .260 bartlein at the same time as me for his LMT and it also shoots just as good. He is selling his rifle with the barlein if anyone is interested.

https://forum.snipershide.com/threads/wts-wtt-lmt-260-bartlein-ar10.6897954/#post-7273390
 
Feb 14, 2017
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28
Must you send the rifle or just the LMT barrel that he gets the extension from? I don't want to be without the rifle itself but I have an older LMT .308 barrel that I'd like to get rid of or have it used to make a new 6.5 barrel for my MWS.
 
Apr 9, 2014
84
35
18
Colorado Springs
Ive never shot a GAP-10 or a SP10. I would imagine it would shoot right along side a GAP-10 because they are both shooting bartleins and have the rest of the system all worked out. I really do think the solid monolithic upper of the LMT really helps with the consistency of the platform. There is no flex whatsoever and that massive barrel extension being clamped in also has to attribute to the repeatability of the system. I have been after an accurate AR10 for years. Did the DPMS route, did the piece it all together with quality parts route, and finally spent the money on an LMT thinking it would solve all my accuracy issues right out of the box. I get it out for the first time with 2 boxes of 175 FGMM and was immediately surprised that it was shooting about 2" at 100 yards. I tried every combo of hand load and never could get it to shoot. I sold the thing a month later. A couple months go by and I start missing the awesome LMT MWS. So I went and bought another one thinking maybe the first one I get had a bad barrel. Took it out and it did the same kind of thing, 2" or so at 100. I sent that barrel off to Jeff Hayes and from day 1 that thing has shot amazing. I needed another barrel extension anyway to get a .308 barrel so I figured I'd get a factory "SS Match" 16" .308. Shot like shit, so did the 2 replacements that LMT send because they agreed the barrel shot like shit. After playing this game for a while I gave up and sent it off to Jeff for a .308 bartlein. I really like the LMT MWS and they really do shoot well with the aftermarket barrels if you are willing to spend the time and money. If your looking for a super accurate right out of the box ar10 I would not recommend the LMT from what I have seen and go with the GAP-10 or the Seekins.

My buddy had Jeff spin up a .260 bartlein at the same time as me for his LMT and it also shoots just as good. He is selling his rifle with the barlein if anyone is interested.

https://forum.snipershide.com/threads/wts-wtt-lmt-260-bartlein-ar10.6897954/#post-7273390
Interesting. The results I'm getting from a 20" chrome lined barrel (chopped down to 16" by Marvin Pitts) shoots a consistent a minute and half or better. Interested in having a custom 6.5 CM done though. Has Jeff done anything with a Proof Research as far as swapping barrel extensions for the MWS?
 

car16smg

Sergeant of the Hide
Mar 8, 2014
120
9
18
Tennessee
Just got off the phone with Stephan (engineer at Proof). He made mention of previous conversations being had with LMT about making a direct replacement carbon barrel using the LMT barrel extension. He went on to say they had a couple LMT extensions in house to work off of, but have yet to go into development because LMT hasn’t provided further correspondence. Said if LMT would make up their minds about whether or not they wanted to go that route, they could definitely make a carbon fiber LMT MWS barrel conversion a reality.
I mean they have factory replacement AI barrels now!

FWIW, when I mentioned having a gunsmith fit an AR10 carbon barrel to the LMT MWS barrel extension, he was afraid there wouldn’t be enough steel in the shank to fit it appropriately. I would definitely like a 6CM carbon barrel for my MWS...so anyone with more info than me, spread the good word!
 

vanguardn7

New Hide Member
May 19, 2018
5
0
1
Who here has an mws with a 13.5 barrel? what kind of accuracy are you getting? and is there a comparable difference betweena stainless 13.5 and a regular 13.5?
 
Mar 10, 2005
287
3
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md
Who here has an mws with a 13.5 barrel? what kind of accuracy are you getting? and is there a comparable difference betweena stainless 13.5 and a regular 13.5?
I see no difference in inaccuracy between my 18 inch SS and my 13.5 SS.

Generally a 3 shot clover leaf with a flyer or two. Solid 3/4 to 1 moa gun. Totally acceptable for its role.

My 6.5cm barrel seems a little more accurate.
 
Mar 10, 2005
287
3
18
38
md
damn this is making me rethink my regular quad rail upper purchase!!!
Man, that quad rail is soo 2008. Actually I am keeping my quad rail and running it with a 6.5cm barrel,



I'll grab a Mars upper for the mloc and just run the quad rail as long range gas gun since weight isnt really an issue.

The mloc upper is noticbly lighter, really like the set up, I think the mloc upper is about 6oz lighter
 

vanguardn7

New Hide Member
May 19, 2018
5
0
1
My 13.5 when its done (waiting on the barrel) will be running a mk6 3-18 tremor 3 on a gdi mount with a t1 offset. Might Switch out the mk6 for my cqbss but want to run it like that for a while, so far its a super compact package, the monolithic rail lets my put the mount more forward so I dont have to extend the stock. Makes for a nice little squat 308 DMR hopefully the barrel doesnt add too much more weight cause so far its really light.