Leviathan Suppressor... any experience?

BimmerRep

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Aug 24, 2017
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I blacked out his significant others face out of respect but apparently living the high life while owing people a bunch of money that he scammed is ok....
You have more respect than I do. I think he is living in a world of denial and that he thinks this is will all be ok soon.
 

PFG

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Dec 13, 2017
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It’s probably best to stay out of his home life.

This thread alone will ruin his “business”.

Those who have money tied up in the scam, you’ll likely never see the cash. At this point, your best course of action is to keep this thread bumped so that others don’t fall into the same scam/trap.
 

Stag556

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Feb 10, 2017
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It’s probably best to stay out of his home life.

This thread alone will ruin his “business”.

Those who have money tied up in the scam, you’ll likely never see the cash. At this point, your best course of action is to keep this thread bumped so that others don’t fall into the same scam/trap.
Based on the fact that he’s posting on his business Instagram page, maybe he’s in denial that he’s still in business? My biggest concern is him still trying to take money for a can that won’t ever happen.

Hopefully keeping this thread bumped will prevent that.
 
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PFG

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Based on the fact that he’s posting on his business Instagram page, maybe he’s in denial that he’s still in business? My biggest concern is him still trying to take money for a can that won’t ever happen.

Hopefully keeping this thread bumped will prevent that.

Agree.

By “business” I meant that he’s taking money, but producing nothing. So it’s no real business.

Leviathan = Scam
 

davidwiz

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If all the reports are correct,

I am sure he is not gonna appear until after the fact.

If they are actively investigating him unless they offer him a deal to repay everyone to avoid prosecution, I suspect this will run it's course criminally and everyone will be out of luck until a civil case can go forward.

not sure where it all falls today, but I suspect the ATF on his tail unless they give him a deal, the money is gone unless a judge says otherwise.
If a credit card was used to pay the deposit, etc., I would **strongly** encourage you to contact your CC company, regardless of how long it has been since you paid, and start a charge-back claim. I would also contact your state attorney general's office and file a fraud claim. If anyone in the NJ/PA area needs further assistance, please PM me - I'm licensed in both states.
 
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R.O.U.S.

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My CC states charge backs are for charges within 120 days. I think it's all ready been about 9 months since my date of purchase.
 
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hlee

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There was a 50% off cert for a Leviathon suppressor on the prize table at the Texas Precision Matches Fall Classic, still available when my number was drawn. I kicked myself for walking past it. I'm now glad I did...
 

Stag556

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I was in contact with him last week after multiple attempts, to which he told me I needed to have patience (lol) He swore that his “end of april” timeline for refunds was still accurate. When I mentioned not trusting him, he seemed confused as to why I’d feel that way. Kinda makes you giggle.

Well, today is the day. I have zero hope.
 
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Max

Descendant of John Adams
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I was in contact with him last week after multiple attempts, to which he told me I needed to have patience (lol) He swore that his “end of april” timeline for refunds was still accurate. When I mentioned not trusting him, he seemed confused as to why I’d feel that way. Kinda makes you giggle.

Well, today is the day. I have zero hope.
The gun community should completely blackball this guy from any events, competitions etc.
 

Stag556

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The gun community should completely blackball this guy from any events, competitions etc.

I contacted PRS about this and wanted to make them aware since his Certs were on PRS prize tables. I was hoping they would put something out so no one would give him anymore money and get scammed since he’s still posting on his Instagram like he’s in business.

I was told he wasn’t a paid sponsor so they wouldn’t make any announcement. I was also told they would put out an email to only MDs but I haven’t heard anything about it since and no MDs I know have received that email. I would think someone scamming shooters would become a bigger deal but it really hasn’t.
 

Stag556

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Idk of anyone else got this today but myself and another customer get identical text...
From Chris......

Two options:

Work with me a little longer (I’m expecting to get paid this week, took awhile to get it put together)

Or:

I can file bankruptcy and you don’t get anything.

Whatcha thinking?
 

mercracing

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Feb 9, 2013
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Idk of anyone else got this today but myself and another customer get identical text...
From Chris......

Two options:

Work with me a little longer (I’m expecting to get paid this week, took awhile to get it put together)

Or:

I can file bankruptcy and you don’t get anything.

Whatcha thinking?
I haven’t gotten anything. Maybe I should call?
 

Max

Descendant of John Adams
Belligerents
Idk of anyone else got this today but myself and another customer get identical text...
From Chris......

Two options:

Work with me a little longer (I’m expecting to get paid this week, took awhile to get it put together)

Or:

I can file bankruptcy and you don’t get anything.

Whatcha thinking?
So....... I the first part he asks for a bit more patience.

In the next breath he says "oh, and fuck you if you don't like it"

"Whatcha thinking"? : A diseased mind......
 

RonA

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One of my favorite quotes from Robert Howard's Conan.

"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.”

RonA
 
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Flyingbullseye

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From Chris......

Two options:

Work with me a little longer (I’m expecting to get paid this week, took awhile to get it put together)

Or:

I can file bankruptcy and you don’t get anything.

Whatcha thinking?

If I was a customer I'd start by looking back at post #105.
 

blbennett1288

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Apr 24, 2017
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Idk of anyone else got this today but myself and another customer get identical text...
From Chris......

Two options:

Work with me a little longer (I’m expecting to get paid this week, took awhile to get it put together)

Or:

I can file bankruptcy and you don’t get anything.

Whatcha thinking?
Bankruptcy is a fucking chickenshit pussy move.

Have some GD integrity and find a stable income to pay back people whose money was literally stolen.

To anyone involved, at this point it can’t hurt to wait a little longer
 

IntoTransonic

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It’s obvious he has no legal concerns, or hell would have turned over to get the $ back. He’s done in the industry anyway.
 

R.O.U.S.

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What does it mean "to get paid" in this situation? I hope it doesn't mean that money from newly placed orders are being used for anything other than the manufacturing of those suppressors. I haven't received any texts that others have mentioned.

edit. I haven't had any response from the company since my date of order. I have only tried asking for a cancellation through the website contact form.
 
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Stag556

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Feb 10, 2017
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What does it mean "to get paid" in this situation? I hope it doesn't mean that money from newly placed orders are being used for anything other than the manufacturing of those suppressors. I haven't received any texts that others have mentioned.
The other gentleman that got the message and I were actually wondering if someone called, would he take money for a new order...

As far as being paid, I’ve heard rumblings that he actually had a patent on the baffles and could possibly have worked a sale for that. But who knows what the truth is.
 

lte82

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Mar 12, 2013
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Literally every company I know of that has failed to deliver did so because of cash flow issues, not because they set out to scam people. Tons of people have good ideas and can build nice products, but they also need to realize they need to know how to manage cash flow because it's not as simple as "I have $50k in the bank, I'll write myself a $50k check today".
 

Max

Descendant of John Adams
Belligerents
Judas Priest !!! There is a hell of a big difference between cash flow problems and his failure to properly communicate, stringing people along, deflecting, diverting, excuses, the blame game and other bullshit.

This is not someone who has fallen on bended knee and said “I FUCKED UP” , I hold myself accountable and I am more sorry than you could know........

Instead when he misses yet another promised deadline its a cold hearted text:

“Two options:

Work with me a little longer (I’m expecting to get paid this week, took awhile to get it put together)

Or:

I can file bankruptcy and you don’t get anything.

Whatcha thinking?”

I see this time and time again. Someone always comes to the defense of these sociopaths........
 
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PFG

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Y'all crazy if you think you're getting a product from this dude.

And lets say, lets just fucking say for the hell of it - that you do.

What happens when you need CS on the can? You think this is the guy to deliver?
 

PFG

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Dec 13, 2017
224
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I think at this point folks are just trying to get their money back.
Maybe, but it appears Mr. LeviaScam has laid it on the line - you wait longer, or I'll just file for bankruptcy.
 

lte82

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Mar 12, 2013
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Judas Priest !!! There is a hell of a big difference between cash flow problems and his failure to properly communicate, stringing people along, deflecting, diverting, excuses, the blame game and other bullshit.

This is not someone who has fallen on bended knee and said “I FUCKED UP” , I hold myself accountable and I am more sorry than you could know........

Instead when he misses yet another promised deadline its a cold hearted text:

“Two options:

Work with me a little longer (I’m expecting to get paid this week, took awhile to get it put together)

Or:

I can file bankruptcy and you don’t get anything.

Whatcha thinking?”

I see this time and time again. Someone always comes to the defense of these sociopaths........
I'm not defending him. But also how is he supposed to pay people back or deliver product (needs capital to buy material, pay for overhead, etc) without continuing to try to run his business? That's my point on the cash flow. Once you get behind and your credit runs out, short of selling off your house, cars, least favorite step child, etc you are pretty much sunk. Continuing to take orders to help raise capital might have seemed like a good idea, but if you couldnt manage it when you had money and credit, how are gonna run it with negative money? and how are you going to pay your own mortgage if you are having to work essentially for free for a while to have any chance at getting out of the hole? Bad situation all around, I hope he turns it around and gets squared up with everyone. Too small of a community...
 

hippocampus

Candice
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Aug 3, 2013
16
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6
North Carolina
I've been tracking on this ever since it was posted. If you have personal experience in regard to the Leviathan situation, can you please message me?

Also, I heard there is a class action lawsuit that's been filed... if anyone has info on that, please let me know.
 
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Max

Descendant of John Adams
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I'm not defending him. But also how is he supposed to pay people back or deliver product (needs capital to buy material, pay for overhead, etc) without continuing to try to run his business? That's my point on the cash flow. Once you get behind and your credit runs out, short of selling off your house, cars, least favorite step child, etc you are pretty much sunk. Continuing to take orders to help raise capital might have seemed like a good idea, but if you couldnt manage it when you had money and credit, how are gonna run it with negative money? and how are you going to pay your own mortgage if you are having to work essentially for free for a while to have any chance at getting out of the hole? Bad situation all around, I hope he turns it around and gets squared up with everyone. Too small of a community...
Are you drunk or just delusional? Have you read through these two threads on this subject??

This is a text from a sociopath NOT an accountable adult businessman.

“Two options:

Work with me a little longer (I’m expecting to get paid this week, took awhile to get it put together)

Or:

I can file bankruptcy and you don’t get anything.

Whatcha thinking?”


If I were in his position, my text would read:

Hey man I know I promised you the end of the month but I need just a bit more time. This whole thing is my mistake and I really want to make it right.

I can’t tell you how bad I feel about all of this. I need just a bit more time to get the money to pay you, which I intent to do. I plan to get this taken care of in the next week. Thanks for your patience and again I am sorry that this has happened and hold myself fully accountable.

Sincerely, Max

That is how a grown adult handles business matters.
 

Stag556

Gunny Sergeant
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Feb 10, 2017
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Are you drunk or just delusional? Have you read through these two threads on this subject??

This is a text from a sociopath NOT an accountable adult businessman.

“Two options:

Work with me a little longer (I’m expecting to get paid this week, took awhile to get it put together)

Or:

I can file bankruptcy and you don’t get anything.

Whatcha thinking?”


If I were in his position, my text would read:

Hey man I know I promised you the end of the month but I need just a bit more time. This whole thing is my mistake and I really want to make it right.

I can’t tell you how bad I feel about all of this. I need just a bit more time to get the money to pay you, which I intent to do. I plan to get this taken care of in the next week. Thanks for your patience and again I am sorry that this has happened and hold myself fully accountable.

Sincerely, Max

That is how a grown adult handles business matters.
Can’t like that post enough. That’s what every person that got scammed is looking to hear. But unfortunately, it will never be said.
 

Max

Descendant of John Adams
Belligerents
Can’t like that post enough. That’s what every person that got scammed is looking to hear. But unfortunately, it will never be said.
I run a small web business. I try to always go above and beyond. Even when I sell something used here I get it in the mail right away, with tracking and for good measure a picture of me slipping it into the a bluebox. I like making folks happy.

Life happens. No one knows this better than me. Managing customer’s expectations and communication have always been my prime focus.It’s not what happens to you but how you deal with it. Most folks are pretty damn understanding. That said, folks get weary of hearing stories like this one and it hurts everyone trying to make an honest living selling products. We need to be hard on those who are unaccountable and supportive of those who do the right thing.
 

R.O.U.S.

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Aug 26, 2011
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Y'all crazy if you think you're getting a product from this dude.

And lets say, lets just fucking say for the hell of it - that you do.

What happens when you need CS on the can? You think this is the guy to deliver?
I think someone has mentioned before that the tube, and end caps are made from Diversified Machine components. I think only the baffles were unique. Since the can isn't welded it may be easier than others for a proper SOT to repair.
 

Max

Descendant of John Adams
Belligerents
I think someone has mentioned before that the tube, and end caps are made from Diversified Machine components. I think only the baffles were unique. Since the can isn't welded it may be easier than others for a proper SOT to repair.
I just skimmed back over this thread. Do you really think with the BATFE on this guy’s ass and purported lawsuits looming, he will ever produce a can?

I have to say my gut is saying no one will see a dime or a can. I sincerely hope I am wrong.......
 

lte82

Shooter
Belligerents
Mar 12, 2013
1,351
481
189
Judas Priest !!! There is a hell of a big difference between cash flow problems and his failure to properly communicate, stringing people along, deflecting, diverting, excuses, the blame game and other bullshit.

This is not someone who has fallen on bended knee and said “I FUCKED UP” , I hold myself accountable and I am more sorry than you could know........

Instead when he misses yet another promised deadline its a cold hearted text:

“Two options:

Work with me a little longer (I’m expecting to get paid this week, took awhile to get it put together)

Or:

I can file bankruptcy and you don’t get anything.

Whatcha thinking?”

I see this time and time again. Someone always comes to the defense of these sociopaths........
I'm not at all defending his actions, I think his response was uncalled for and his communication seems poor at best. I'm simply saying a proper business model that delivers products on time and grows a customer base is a hell of a lot more profitable long term than one that scams a few people for a quick buck. Given the nature of the business, I do not think he is/was intentionally scamming. My intent was to point out that the likely cause is failure to maintain proper cash flow, not intentional scamming/theft, and taking new orders was most likely trying to secure capital in order to move forward and produce more product to fulfill orders.

With that said, I have personally met Chris and talked to him for 5-10 minutes about his cans and he seemed like a nice guy. But given the situation I wouldnt order one from him or recommend anyone order one until he meets his current obligations.
 

Stag556

Gunny Sergeant
Belligerents
Feb 10, 2017
652
308
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I'm not at all defending his actions, I think his response was uncalled for and his communication seems poor at best. I'm simply saying a proper business model that delivers products on time and grows a customer base is a hell of a lot more profitable long term than one that scams a few people for a quick buck. Given the nature of the business, I do not think he is/was intentionally scamming. My intent was to point out that the likely cause is failure to maintain proper cash flow, not intentional scamming/theft, and taking new orders was most likely trying to secure capital in order to move forward and produce more product to fulfill orders.

With that said, I have personally met Chris and talked to him for 5-10 minutes about his cans and he seemed like a nice guy. But given the situation I wouldnt order one from him or recommend anyone order one until he meets his current obligations.
I see your point and I actually agree with you. I don’t think this was intention from the start. I believe poor management and poor business decisions led to this and he was robbing Peter to pay Paul with all current orders. When that didn’t work, he started filing falsified ATF documents to appease customers such as myself. That’s where he made his biggest mistake.

Chris did seem like a nice person, which ultimately gained him my business. But once things started going downhill, he changed. And that’s where a man is measured...
 

Charger442

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I think at this point folks are just trying to get their money back.
if those that are scammed are serious about seeing some resolution, yall need to go all scorched earth on this guy. Lawyer up, have him send several letters, look into possibly filling a lien on his property?, take him to small claims court individually, etc and so on.

i guess it just depends on how far are you willing to take it. it may be cheaper and easier on the mental health of the the scammed to eat the money lost and move on. Or exact justice. its really whatever you can live with long-term. just make sure you have no ragrets.
 

Max

Descendant of John Adams
Belligerents
Sadly I have known or crossed path with too many sociopaths.

Hallmark traits:

Seems/ seemed like a nice guy.

Well intentioned business person.

Never meant to hurt anyone.


Indeed they can be very tough to spot UNTIL things goes south. Then their narcissism and distain for anyone who questions them becomes clear. Read back through these pages and the other thread. You will see this in full display as he lies & manipulates with self righteousness. Why would he not be self righteous? In his mind HE is the real victim here.

He even gets criticized for suddenly changing his profile picture and writing in third person in a thinly veiled attempt to further deceive. To the sociopath his actions are warranted because he is smarter than all of you and if you are stupid enough to get into this mess, that is on you. You should have known better.

Yes the sociopath is earnest, self righteous and loves puppies......🙄

"In recent years, several influential books have attempted to dispel the myth that most sociopaths are ruthless killers and criminals. On the contrary, they argue, the nearest sociopath might be a boss, a partner, or a parent. While sociopaths may not all be literal outlaws, however, a defining characteristic is a profound lack of conscience—a flaw in the moral compass that typically steers people away from breaking common rules and treating others decently. Yet this internal moral disconnect may be masked by a charming demeanor."
 

Pilotscrappy

Winter is coming
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Minuteman
Jul 21, 2018
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Medford,OR
To the people who are owed money I would file a small claims suit against him personally. It's only couple hundred bucks to do so, this way it will get in front of a judge.

Upon ruling in your favor the courts will garnish any income he receives, put liens on property he owns, or it will Force him into bankruptcy.

Best of luck.
 
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