Let's just say tomorrow

Gunfighter14e2

Rusty Nail
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the power goes off, no stores are open, no fuel can be pumped, cell phones an landlines are dead.
What is your plan for any of that. Or are you of the block that say it will never happen so why even waste the time thinking about it. If your of the latter* that's fine, if not, whats you estimated time given your stores an ability's? Or can you make your own fuel, generate your own power ever how limited that might be. Grow your own food an harvest your own meds to a point?

Latter* It would just kill me to watch my Family, Kin & friends suffer, knowing I could have done something prior to prevent same, hence why I have no use for the couch or none productive play time. Yes it's a mental issue I know, but I've seen precursors an hard times before, an learned to not trust Rainbow an Unicorn forecasting,...
 

Downtown

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Thirty days of food and the means to prepare it. At least 30 days fuel for a small generator, just big enough to keep stuff charged. 10 days stored water, then the ability to filter from unlimited source. The ability to heat until spring. Enough ammo to last the rest of my life. So let's say a easy month. After that, things get serious.
 

Downtown

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It's really scary to imagine a situation needing more than a month of self sufficiency, because now the serious civil unrest really kicks in.
 

W54/XM-388

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Right now I don't have the capability funds, time or opportunity to be setup to live permanently off the grid and farm for my food.
Kind of a bit hard to do for a lot of folks these days that have to earn a living in the cities / suburbs.

I do have about as good as I can be setup for surviving in the suburbs till the initial chaos is done and those of us with the will are able to work to restore some semblance of order and society. The only thing I lack is Solar which I'm working on.

I also have friends / family that I can drive to, with as much stuff as a truck / trailer will carry if it is impossible to stay where I am.
However that is not my first option as there will be way too many fleeing the cities and dying on the roads shortly outside the cities which will make travel very dangerous, especially from the "Just following orders" types who may be "collecting supplies".

When I get to where I can retire or have a very different pace of living, I do fully intend to have a setup a good ways out of the cities where I could fully live off the land if needed.
 
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Gunfighter14e2

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I have been lucky in that my very last conversation with my grandfather, instilled in me the need to have life as well as thinking out of the box skill-sets. Growing up on a Farm help a lot as well. Early in life I wanted to know how does that thing work, an can I make it better? That led me in to can I make that from scratch. Today I am making another(mo-better) circle cutting jig for my torch to fit spacers an plating into an heat ex-changer for a 12.5 B&S that runs off wood gas. If running the engine, why not snatch all the recoverable BTU's you can?
 

Alpine 338

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I recently purchased a large solar (PV) system (6600 Watts). Right now it's a temporary install, and I have a permanent mounting solution in mind. However, I'm rethinking that because of how much the panel array would stand out. Not only be visible to those looking to take advantage, but also open to being destroyed by small arms fire. I can hide the array in the forest (which reduces efficiency), but my fear there is a tree or tree branch falling and causing damage. I can move my planned install location to the downhill side of a North facing slope to reduce it's visual impact, and still remain in somewhat full view of the Sun. However, this is also the Windward side with prevailing winds, and where I live (Snow Country), I can get up to 6-feet of snow, and that side of the hill could even get more snow accumulation because of the wind. I will have to have the bottom of the array at least six-feet off the ground as is.


Any thoughts?
 
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Downtown

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I think it might be easier to limit the amount of electricity needed, rather than an extensive system of generation. Communication and NV come to mind as things that must have electricity, but most other needs can probably be met other ways.
 
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Alpine 338

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I agree, but this is a system used for peacetime use that I will have to rely on. I can disassemble it, and hide the panels if that warrants. I have no problems reducing my electrical footprint to just short of battery operated equipment.
 

Gunfighter14e2

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Reducing your needs would greatly help. I know of some PV systems that are trailer mounted an some on the ground as well. If you have a wood stove or fireplace a small steam engine or turbine could fill in the needs in cold weather. Steam generation is easy an can be simply built with vertical shaft mower engines. Forget using the std valves, make a sliding piston valve an be done with it. You can generate 5-600 watts easily with Low Pressure steam using an open fire box. Wood gas is very viable, and if you compress/store it your ride thru's can be very long before having to start/operate that system.
 

alpine44

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I recently purchased a large solar (PV) system (6600 Watts). Right now it's a temporary install, and I have a permanent mounting solution in mind. However, I'm rethinking that because of how much the panel array would stand out. Not only be visible to those looking to take advantage, but also open to being destroyed by small arms fire. I can hide the array in the forest (which reduces efficiency), but my fear there is a tree or tree branch falling and causing damage. I can move my planned install location to the downhill side of a North facing slope to reduce it's visual impact, and still remain in somewhat full view of the Sun. However, this is also the Windward side with prevailing winds, and where I live (Snow Country), I can get up to 6-feet of snow, and that side of the hill could even get more snow accumulation because of the wind. I will have to have the bottom of the array at least six-feet off the ground as is.


Any thoughts?
Do not ignore the need for ample storage capacity and keep the whole systems flexible with matching connectors, multiple chargers and inverters so you can scale to your needs or availability of suitable space.
 
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alpine44

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I have been lucky in that my very last conversation with my grandfather, instilled in me the need to have life as well as thinking out of the box skill-sets. Growing up on a Farm help a lot as well. Early in life I wanted to know how does that thing work, an can I make it better? That led me in to can I make that from scratch. Today I am making another(mo-better) circle cutting jig for my torch to fit spacers an plating into an heat ex-changer for a 12.5 B&S that runs off wood gas. If running the engine, why not snatch all the recoverable BTU's you can?
There is another point in this valuable story. You do not have to have the perfect system on the first day after the SHTF if you have the tools and knowledge to improve as needed. If you know that the power will be gone for a while, use the time you have left in your generator's tank to build 'mo-better' stuff like a wood gas generator, etc. Hoarding supplies cannot hurt but the ultimate currency is skills and flexibility.

Give a man a fish and he has food for a day, teach him how to fish and he has beer for a weekend ... or something like that.
 
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BullGear

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It doesn't cost a ton of money to fill your pantry with beans and rice. Pinto beans will last forever if stored properly. A water purifier and your rain gutters should supply you with enough water to cook. As mentioned, if it's winter, the snow will be your water source then. As far as power, a small solar system with batteries will supply limited electricity. If everything is shut down, you won't need to drive anywhere, so gas shouldn't be an issue. I would highly recommend arming yourself IF you use a generator. Those things are like bells, they will bring every no good doer to your property.

I'm not trying to say it will be easy, but it is something that you can get through with a minimal preemptive plan.

Also, something my mother taught me as a young man, bacon grease should NEVER be thrown away. Put it in a metal can or a jar and keep it all. You will thank me if we ever have a SHTF situation. Bacon grease will be better than gold.
 
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shoot 51

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It doesn't cost a ton of money to fill your pantry with beans and rice. Pinto beans will last forever if stored properly. A water purifier and your rain gutters should supply you with enough water to cook. As mentioned, if it's winter, the snow will be your water source then. As far as power, a small solar system with batteries will supply limited electricity. If everything is shut down, you won't need to drive anywhere, so gas shouldn't be an issue. I would highly recommend arming yourself IF you use a generator. Those things are like bells, they will bring every no good doer to your property.

I'm not trying to say it will be easy, but it is something that you can get through with a minimal preemptive plan.

Also, something my mother taught me as a young man, bacon grease should NEVER be thrown away. Put it in a metal can or a jar and keep it all. You will thank me if we ever have a SHTF situation. Bacon grease will be better than gold.
If you read the Lewis and Clark notes you will find out that in places where they could not find game, they ate Bear grease mixed with edible roots. Doesn’t sound great but good energy food.
 
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BullGear

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If you read the Lewis and Clark notes you will find out that in places where they could not find game, they ate Bear grease mixed with edible roots. Doesn’t sound great but good energy food.

Yeah, I figure bacon grease will make the south end of a skunk taste good enough to eat.

Also, don't pass up just about any greens that grow in the summer months. They may not taste too good, but they will help you survive.
 

Gunfighter14e2

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Basic Skills, Basic Food, and Basic Supplies will carry you through. Unfortunately most people have none of these. If One Second After really happens it will be horrific for most.
It would rid this country of the FSA dead weight though.
One good thing about Kudzu here in the south, the leaves can be turned into a tasty snack, plus the roots can be used as a great starch alternative.
 
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W54/XM-388

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It would rid this country of the FSA dead weight though.
The sad part is that the FSA only exists because they are a useful tool by those who want to enslave society.
You'll notice from history, once the totalitarian types get the power and control they want, instantly their "poor masses" are made to get to work or get to the open pit graves.

It's kind of like how we do wars and the whole war with Iran that everyone wants.

Kill hundreds of thousands or millions to fix a problem by going after the pawns.

Too bad nobody bothers just directly taking out the ones calling the shots instead.

Much like the issue in Virginia, rumblings about the possibility of patriots facing off with "just doing their duty" types.
Pawns fighting against pawns while a tiny handful feel all safe watching their game unfold.
 
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Gunfighter14e2

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The sad part is that the FSA only exists because they are a useful tool by those who want to enslave society.
You'll notice from history, once the totalitarian types get the power and control they want, instantly their "poor masses" are made to get to work or get to the open pit graves.

It's kind of like how we do wars and the whole war with Iran that everyone wants.

Kill hundreds of thousands or millions to fix a problem by going after the pawns.

Too bad nobody bothers just directly taking out the ones calling the shots instead.

Much like the issue in Virginia, rumblings about the possibility of patriots facing off with "just doing their duty" types.
Pawns fighting against pawns while a tiny handful feel all safe watching their game unfold.
A 22 behind the correct ear/s would save untold amounts of lives, let alone money.
 
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45.308

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I just got to work, sipping on coffee talking when the ground started shaking, then yep, it starting shaking knocking us around, everyone knew then and yelled earthquake as we dove under or ran outside. It took a few minutes after the shaking for reality to set in. Real reality when slithering out to see the damage and water pouring, no electric, no cell, no way to call your wife or her to call you or any member of your family. Roads damaged, not travelable. What normal is a 15 min drive home, took me 1 hour and 40 mins due to the traffic, I could have walked faster. Didn't seen any flare ups or road rage. Hotels offered cut rate rooms for those stuck in town.

We did and will again root except for the most rare occurrence. For around here, home destroyed by fire or by earthquake. We had damage, sunken floor but walls and roof, no water running water or electric. No comms to include cell phones, my son and I have a game plan to meet a specified location, easiest travel route by foot because by vehicle, you just cant get around due to road damage and traffic, then to determine our best course of action to root where. This is what is an enigma to me, for those who think they are going to bugout. I guess it depends but if the world is set on its side in an instance, roads, all roads are clogged and can be damaged, not as easy at it will be in real life. By the time I got home, neighborhood is out and chatting and of course helping. We would not let anyone in the house for obvious reasons, if they needed something we would get it but we felt safe in our neighborhood. It was not mentioned that I remember but I had a game plan to secure up our hood if needed. I got it, it was roughly 3 days but it could have been much worse like big city USA down south. Yes, I was heeled but that is every day gig.

During this last earthquake hoards of CNN, MSNBC, etc reporters flew up once the airport opened to report all the looting, riots, and disorderly conduct, they found nothing of the sort but a huge team effort even between neighborhoods with view in their name and those without. If you are from Alaska you understand. I heard about just one business owner who was strapped protecting his business, all windows shattered on the ground but help soon came and plywood was up. We were lucky our local Freddys had backup power, they opened for a few hours with min staffing for water and food that did run out quick. No fights, no bad attitudes, no looting. Sold out, closed and went home until the airport opened and food could be flown in over a couple days. Medicine is a tuff, wife can only refill ever 30 days but we planned.

Our power was out and the airport was closed. Most TV and radio was out or damaged. We used a battery powered radio to listen to the single station on air for news and updates on what was happening.

We have some stored water, can goods, dry goods. Eat the chill first, then the frozen, dry and can goods. 100s of waterfowl around on the lake, birds squirrels, hares and of course moose but they wouldn't last long. Throw another log on the fire or chop a limb or tree or even the furniture. Walk to the creek or the lake, I can throw a rock and hit water, scoop up water and boil in on bbq or little piggy back stove.

In this day, not sure what it would take to be alone and out for weeks to months.
 

verdugo60

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Reducing your needs would greatly help. I know of some PV systems that are trailer mounted an some on the ground as well. If you have a wood stove or fireplace a small steam engine or turbine could fill in the needs in cold weather. Steam generation is easy an can be simply built with vertical shaft mower engines. Forget using the std valves, make a sliding piston valve an be done with it. You can generate 5-600 watts easily with Low Pressure steam using an open fire box. Wood gas is very viable, and if you compress/store it your ride thru's can be very long before having to start/operate that system.
Very interesting! Where can I learn more about this, any plans or pictures? I'm somewhat handy but not very familiar with steam engines, etc.
 

Gunfighter14e2

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Very interesting! Where can I learn more about this, any plans or pictures? I'm somewhat handy but not very familiar with steam engines, etc.
Just research Wood gasifier. You can use wood gas to do any job that Natural gas will do. On a resip (piston) engine adjusted properly for wood gas you will only get 65-70% of it's rated HP on gasoline.
Steam engines are all over the place as is info on how to convert/build same.
Boilers can be very simple to very complex, but always think safety X 300% when building a boiler of messing with steam. This link is to a video of a very simple boiler that can be set up an used most anywhere. If you going to burn wood remember to save the ash, as it can be used to make lye. Lye can be used an reworked for/into all kinds if good stuff, if a store is not an option.
 

verdugo60

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I would love to put a rocket mass heater in my house eventually. Makes a wood fired stove 10 times more efficient supposedly. Store some coal for emergencies and renewable wood resources and you could cook and heat a long time.
 

Greg Langelius *

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Arizona, good place for me...
My electronics (FRS, etc.) are powered by AA and AAA rechargeables, and I have low volume solar charging for essentials. Only my LRF requires electricity as far as shooting electronics goes, and I rotate a fresh stock of 9V and chargers for whatever batteries I have/need. I have made a point of keeping my shooting techniques/technologies in the 20th, rather than 21st, century.

Forty years of teaching Scouts that you can't plug your Game Boy into a tree, and that a cellphone is just a beacon for anyone who cares to home in and mess with you, has honed a set of standards, practices, and expectations that place minimal concern about the grid going down. The first thing I'd do if the grid went down would be to pull the battery out of my phone.

MRE's can be a bitch long term, but so were C-Rats, and we managed months in the field on them. We have guns, we can hunt. Eating people brings prion disease (Kuru, a very ugly way to go), so leave that long pig alone. If someone wants to join you and their hands are shaky; keep an eye on them. if they laugh uncontrollably, get them out.

Water is our biggest concern. Living here in the High Lonesome, stockpiling for the first 30 days is crucial, after that, most of the competition for water has died of thirst. Owning cats means cat litter jugs. Washed out, filled, and a few drops of Clorox (32 drops per cat litter jug) allows for cheaper water storage; we just have to defend it. Men require a minimum daily water consumption for about a gallon (one quarter of a cat litter jug), women slightly less, usually a factor of body mass. People do not all come in one size, so these values vary, and this is a minimum. Rationing water is flat out dumb, the body is the best place to carry adequate water. Just as you don't drink all of your water at once, don't put it all away until some future time. Use what you need. For average people, thirty days, 120 gallons (30 cat litter jugs); and that's a minimum for human consumption; hygiene, etc., requires that much as well, or more. Clorox is not the best water storage purifier.

I have no intention of retreating to a lifestyle that requires me to be totally self sufficient. That's for hermits, and as we should all understand, they all tend to die alone. Communities are what survive, and building a community is a better approach than individual total self sufficiency. You can't put off doing that until the emergency arrives; it's something you do every day.

Yes, some folks will need to curbed, or more; but when a community is already bonded as a unit, tough tasks get easier. When life threatening emergency arrives, and it's long term; tolerance becomes more of a luxury than a necessity.

I carry my weight, you carry yours; and don't be pestering me for some of mine, grasshopper... See that little hole in the front of this thing in my hand? Something lives down in there that you don't want coming your way, grasshopper.

First to the curb, collectivists. What's mine is not theirs, somebody could die if they try getting too insistent. Not my plan, but such things could happen. I am not planning to be steamrollered.

I expect to die one day. Nothing I do will prevent that. Some of the things I do will make it take longer, but nobody's perfect at that. Yet.

Greg
 
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Alpine 338

Lumberjack
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Water, Food, Shelter, but one thing many forget to consider is clothing. Yes, you have what you're wearing on your back. But what about change of seasons? What about long term? Have you considered how long your underwear and socks are going to last, especially without regular washing?
I know when I'm in the woods, doing heavy work like felling trees, cutting firewood, etc. I go though shirts, pants, and gloves fast. When I'm handling rock or brick, gloves are worn out especially fast.
I make sure I have lots of extra stashed away to keep me going for at least a few months.

Something to think about.
 
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Hobo Hilton

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Hmmmm, well the first thing to consider is your location. Home, motel, relatives house, working a Night Shift, etc. I'm good at home. Stocked and fortified for 90 days. Rural Montana, good people to be in a situation with.... Popcorn over an open fire and watch the show... Global Warming has allowed me to start getting the soil ready in my garden. Photos from this morning.

Hobo
 

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