Knights Armament

HenryTheAce

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Subbed for more people’s experiences with the LPR
Love my Mod 2 LPR.. shoots sub MOA with Norma 77gr match when I do my part. Never had a hiccup with it. I run it suppressed with a Surefire 300sps. Only thing I did to change from stock configuration is put on a VLTOR kit and Surefire MB
 
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j-moose32

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Love my Mod 2 LPR.. shoots sub MOA with Norma 77gr match when I do my part. Never had a hiccup with it. I run it suppressed with a Surefire 300sps. Only thing I did to change from stock configuration is put on a VLTOR kit and Surefire MB
Treating myself to a spr setup this spring and a Kac LPR is one of the front runners so far
 
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sleeplz

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Sure, go ahead and fire your rifle 20,000 rounds without cleaning and then hold one MOA.. Let me know how that works out for you. That test is easily searchable online
I found the video where he fires 20,000 but I don't see where it held 1 moa after the 20k. Do you have a link?
 

MontanaMan

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Treating myself to a spr setup this spring and a Kac LPR is one of the front runners so far
I own 3 KAC rifles, & one is an LPR with the slightly heavier Krieger barrel than the current version MOD 2 & with the URX 3.1 rail.

It's extremely soft shooting, eats all ammo I've ever fed it from low powdered factory 223 stuff to warm handloads. It will do MOA with good ammo all day. The gun (actually all 3 guns) have never missed a single beat.............ever, as in zero stoppages of any kind.

Sure people can build a rifle that work, many as well as a KAC, until they don't, but if you truly want a rifle to bet your life on, you really cannot ever go wrong with KAC.

I'm a tinkerer & a builder, but I have not made a single mod to any of the KAC's.................there's just not been any reason to, they just plain run & do what they are intended to do.

JME, YMMV

MM
 

j-moose32

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I own 3 KAC rifles, & one is an LPR with the slightly heavier Krieger barrel than the current version MOD 2 & with the URX 3.1 rail.

It's extremely soft shooting, eats all ammo I've ever fed it from low powdered factory 223 stuff to warm handloads. It will do MOA with good ammo all day. The gun (actually all 3 guns) have never missed a single beat.............ever, as in zero stoppages of any kind.

Sure people can build a rifle that work, many as well as a KAC, until they don't, but if you truly want a rifle to bet your life on, you really cannot ever go wrong with KAC.

I'm a tinkerer & a builder, but I have not made a single mod to any of the KAC's.................there's just not been any reason to, they just plain run & do what they are intended to do.

JME, YMMV

MM

Appreciate your input with your experience! I don’t want to tinker with my rifles/ firearms in general. I want to pick them up and have em go bang without tinkering. I have a Camaro if I want to waste my time tinkering and fixing things( oh and boy do I 🤦🏻‍♂️).

I’ve seen some custom builds that shoot as well as bolt guns, some specifically by bigjake83, but I don’t know if that type of setup would be finicky
 
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87stang

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I'm a tinkerer & a builder, but I have not made a single mod to any of the KAC's.................there's just not been any reason to, they just plain run & do what they are intended to do.

JME, YMMV

MM
[/QUOTE]

If found this to be the case as well. I used to tinker with my rifles. Changing out hand guards, pistol grips, triggers, whatever. My knights are stock. I feel. I need to change anything.

People around here really need to caveat their opinions. You may be able to build 2 decent ARs for the price of an SR-15. And yes it may do everything that an SR-15 can do.............for you. That’s the operation condition. Just because it will do everything you need it to do does not make it equal. That like saying a shop build mustang and a GT350 are equal. Yeah the shop built mustang may do better at one thing or another and it may be more to your taste. But will it last 100k miles. Not like. Similar but not equal!
 
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sleeplz

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I don't get the car comparison with ar-15's. Are you telling me the sr-15 will last longer than say a BCM in which pat rogers ran over 40k without cleaning? GT350 is faster than a stock mustang but an sr-15 isn't going to launch rounds faster. I know @pnorris stated that after 20k the sr-15 held 1 MOA but I can't find any truth to this. An sr-15 isn't launching a bullet faster, lasting longer with similar accuracy, or winning 3 gun matches decisively.

I get it has cool designs like rounded lugs and special gas system but an adjustable gas block does an even better job since you can tune it to your can. It's a cool gun but it just doesn't do anything better. Unless it really can hold 1 MOA after 20k but I can't find that fact.
 
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Shooter McGavin

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Yeah, car comparisons suck! I have a 2013 ST3/2 race car and a beat 2013 302 Boss Mustangs race cars all the time. It’s because I train harder and get coaching from pro drivers. So give a tier one guy a BCM or KAC and he will do better than you all day. Shit give him a PSA and he will do better than you at a class, I wouldn’t give him that to fight though.
 

87stang

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I don't get the car comparison with ar-15's. Are you telling me the sr-15 will last longer than say a BCM in which pat rogers ran over 40k without cleaning? GT350 is faster than a stock mustang but an sr-15 isn't going to launch rounds faster.

You don’t get my car comparison because you didn’t full read my response. I didn’t compare a STOCK mustang and a GT350. I compared a shop built mustang and a GT350. It’s not about speed, it’s about longevity. I didn’t mention BCM either. I specifically was referring to building your own. Knights does a lot more testing and engineering of their systems than other manufacturers. Specifically sized gas ports, gas system lengths and so on. They do run a bit cleaner and shoot a bit softer. Will a BCM run just as long in civilian use. Sure will. Knights is just a bit better. With the small difference in price between comparable BCM and KAC rifles I really don’t know why people bitch.

I know @pnorris stated that after 20k the sr-15 held 1 MOA but I can't find any truth to this. An sr-15 isn't launching a bullet faster, lasting longer with similar accuracy, or winning 3 gun matches decisively.

I don’t put a whole lot of stock in what 3 gunners are doing. Yes there are some incredible shooters and advancements do come out of it but I’ve been around enough to know how that game is played. Between the payed sponsors and the personalities that feel the need to Gucci bling rifles and treat them like status symbols it just kinda turns into an echo chamber. If you look at tactical matches( team sniper events and more real world simulated events) Knights is MUCH more represented and doing very well.
Dig through the ar15 KAC sub forum for the discussion on barrel life. Guy did a torture test and and documented it. Shooting mostly steel cases wolf at firing schedules, documenting along the way and it took north of 20000 rounds to start degrading accuracy. Don’t really remember the specifics but you can find it if your curious
 

M8541Reaper

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Sure, go ahead and fire your rifle 20,000 rounds without cleaning and then hold one MOA.. Let me know how that works out for you. That test is easily searchable online
lol if only my issued MK12 lived by that same standard. 😂

KAC makes great shit, but it isn’t something that defies reality. There are good ones and bad ones. I’ve run 556 and 762 KACs abroad and, while they were nice (except for 1 that was worse than a boomer Fudd's kitchen built AR that he put together by hand without any tools or instructions), I’d never buy one in the states. Not for money reasons, but because I prefer LMT. My MRP shoots better than any MK12 I’ve used and I have no reason to believe an MWS wouldn’t do the same on the 762 side.

Once again, nothing wrong with KAC products, just users (or worse the fanboys who have never used or owned one) that drink the punch like its Jonestown.

Then you have dudes who hate them because they can’t afford them so they talk about how they can just build 10 rifles or buy five rock rivers for the same price. The reality is that most wont ever use/own them and many who do, aren't able to run them to their full potential.

Buy one and run it. You won’t be disappointed. ...or better yet, buy an LMT and enjoy that monolithic upper and barrel/caliber swap feature. 😉
 
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The DFC

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I own 3 KAC rifles, & one is an LPR with the slightly heavier Krieger barrel than the current version MOD 2 & with the URX 3.1 rail.

It's extremely soft shooting, eats all ammo I've ever fed it from low powdered factory 223 stuff to warm handloads. It will do MOA with good ammo all day. The gun (actually all 3 guns) have never missed a single beat.............ever, as in zero stoppages of any kind.

Sure people can build a rifle that work, many as well as a KAC, until they don't, but if you truly want a rifle to bet your life on, you really cannot ever go wrong with KAC.

I'm a tinkerer & a builder, but I have not made a single mod to any of the KAC's.................there's just not been any reason to, they just plain run & do what they are intended to do.

JME, YMMV

MM
I have a Mod 2 LPR-with the lighter profile Krieger-does heat up for me after 20-30 slow fire target shooting type pace shots. 1moa shooter if I do my part-like keep it cool.
 

HenryTheAce

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Forgot to mention that as well @j-moose32 the mod 2 LPR with the lighter profile Krieger barrel does heat up fast like @The DFC said. If I could get my hands on an unused Mod 1 with the heavier profile I would, but I couldn’t find one at the time and with my patience I waited a whole 3hrs before diving head first into the Mod 2 😂
 

The DFC

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Forgot to mention that as well @j-moose32 the mod 2 LPR with the lighter profile Krieger barrel does heat up fast like @The DFC said. If I could get my hands on an unused Mod 1 with the heavier profile I would, but I couldn’t find one at the time and with my patience I waited a whole 3hrs before diving head first into the Mod 2 😂

I was trying to keep up with my bolt gun buddies shooting 22-250s at 400yd 2moa steel plate and I just stopped hitting. The things you learn when you actually shoot :D
 
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pnorris

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I don't get the car comparison with ar-15's. Are you telling me the sr-15 will last longer than say a BCM in which pat rogers ran over 40k without cleaning? GT350 is faster than a stock mustang but an sr-15 isn't going to launch rounds faster. I know @pnorris stated that after 20k the sr-15 held 1 MOA but I can't find any truth to this. An sr-15 isn't launching a bullet faster, lasting longer with similar accuracy, or winning 3 gun matches decisively.

I get it has cool designs like rounded lugs and special gas system but an adjustable gas block does an even better job since you can tune it to your can. It's a cool gun but it just doesn't do anything better. Unless it really can hold 1 MOA after 20k but I can't find that fact.
Sweet baby jesus. This took a whole 5 seconds to find. I was wrong only 1.1inches. Clearly you should pass on it. I am sure Merle's frankenguns would put these to shame.
 

M8541Reaper

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Sweet baby jesus. This took a whole 5 seconds to find. I was wrong only 1.1inches. Clearly you should pass on it. I am sure Merle's frankenguns would put these to shame.
Well if we’re going off hearsay and not a video showing the shooter taking the shots and then walking to the target....then cool. That video did nothing to prove or show anything.

No need to die on the hill man.
 

The DFC

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I don't get the car comparison with ar-15's. Are you telling me the sr-15 will last longer than say a BCM in which pat rogers ran over 40k without cleaning? GT350 is faster than a stock mustang but an sr-15 isn't going to launch rounds faster. I know @pnorris stated that after 20k the sr-15 held 1 MOA but I can't find any truth to this. An sr-15 isn't launching a bullet faster, lasting longer with similar accuracy, or winning 3 gun matches decisively.

I get it has cool designs like rounded lugs and special gas system but an adjustable gas block does an even better job since you can tune it to your can. It's a cool gun but it just doesn't do anything better. Unless it really can hold 1 MOA after 20k but I can't find that fact.
OMG-it's not a literal comparison :oops: . Yeah it shoots bullets faster-exactly like a mustang GT500 is faster vs. a regular stock mustang. You can't possibly tell me that's what your're getting out of the comparison :ROFLMAO:?

Look man-I own BCM and I own KAC. My KACs (both SS and CL barrels) shoot smoother and much more accurate than my BCMs (both BFH and non-BFH, no SS). I paid ~$1k more for the KACs. I had my BCMs first and love(d) them but because the 200-400yd accuracy sucked I wanted better. I like Mil-Spec type ARs of which I consider both to be. You're not going to have an adjustable gas block on a Mil-Spec type AR. Do you want grunts in the field dicking with an AGB-of course not.

KAC gets to charge more because they've put a lot of work into improving and re-engineering things on the platform-they've earned that.

BTW-So does BCM. I'm not sure exactly what they make in house but they innovate and QC at high levels for which they've earned a reputation and can therefore charge more $$$.

BTW my PSA with FN CHF barrel shoots just as good and has been just as reliable as my BCMs with cost about twice as much.
 

sleeplz

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@The DFC when you throw comparisons out there I actually try to listen to them, sorry for taking you at your word.🤣 I'll try to take you less literally at your word.

I own larue, kac, and home builds; I shoot the same splits generally with all of them at varying distances. You mention grunts in the field with agb's but I've never seen an sr-15 in my 10+ years of service. Kac is more than mil spec but I'm sure you dont want me to take your word on that. It's tough to bring points of arguments when your words and comparisons mean nothing but here we are.

My general argument is a quality AR is going to perform the same as any other. All I ever hear from "high quality" ar manufacturers is the gun feels softer and it has cool features. I knew this buying one but I'm reasonable and I know it doesnt bring anything new to the table.
 

The DFC

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@The DFC when you throw comparisons out there I actually try to listen to them, sorry for taking you at your word.🤣 I'll try to take you less literally at your word.

I own larue, kac, and home builds; I shoot the same splits generally with all of them at varying distances. You mention grunts in the field with agb's but I've never seen an sr-15 in my 10+ years of service. Kac is more than mil spec but I'm sure you dont want me to take your word on that. It's tough to bring points of arguments when your words and comparisons mean nothing but here we are.

My general argument is a quality AR is going to perform the same as any other. All I ever hear from "high quality" ar manufacturers is the gun feels softer and it has cool features. I knew this buying one but I'm reasonable and I know it doesnt bring anything new to the table.
You may have seen an SR25 ie M110 in the field. The people that made that make the SR15-so even though you won't see one in the field they are designed for that IMO. Not seeing an SR15 in the field is a valid point.

A BCM-a quality AR-does not shoot as accurate as a KAC-or a Larue-or a JP-or a home build with Bartlien barrel. Maybe the BCM MK12 does but you're looking at KAC/Larue/JP money. End of argument about a good quality AR performing the same as a KAC because poorer accuracy is not performing the same.

Furthermore-A home build-with a Krieger/Bartlien/CLE etc barrel and the best parts you can buy-will not run as good as a KAC generally. How many threads are on here about home builds not running-a lot. Some do and that's great. Some KACs don't run of course. There was a recent one on a KAC not running-and I'm not sure if it was a magazine issue-it's pretty recent. For the most part a KAC will run better then a home built across a wide variety of ammunition because you will never see an AGB on a KAC I don't think.
 

RyanScott

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Well you have the features of KAC to replicate: ambi features, premium muzzle device and stock, good flip sights, two stage trigger, one of the best float rails. So it would take a lot of money to duplicate all that. Then you have a slightly more accurate and softer shooting gun. But then you have a longer lived gun. Filthy 14 is a bit of an anomaly in bolt life in particular and at the end the accuracy was dismal. An SR-15 would last longer, all things being equal.
 

RyanScott

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KAC doesn’t do AGBs. They do long has systems and longer receiver extensions in the large frame guns. They use smaller ports and their own cans have very little backpressure compared to most commercial offerings.
 

sleeplz

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@pnorris please help me, I cant find where he shoots a group after 20k rounds. Your source proved nothing but I'm sure you see it somewhere just let me know.

As far as kac being accurate, there have been threads where they shoot 2-3 moa. So to me the accuracy is up in the air. I've only shot a sr-25 as a fam shoot and the army is replacing them with HKs so that tells me something.

I would absolutely agree sr-15s are more advantageous if even 5 percent of 3 gunners were using them or they were being used in cmp marksmanship matches but they are not.

At the end of the day if you think the sr16 upper is cool and you have fuck it money, get it. Just realize it doesnt do anything better than a quality AR.
 

sleeplz

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KAC doesn’t do AGBs. They do long has systems and longer receiver extensions in the large frame guns. They use smaller ports and their own cans have very little backpressure compared to most commercial offerings.
I own the 5.56 and 7.62 kac cans. An AR home build with agb and omega can will outperform kac cans on sr-15 in noise, gas to the face, and lightness.
 

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The DFC

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I own the 5.56 and 7.62 kac cans. An AR home build with agb and omega can will outperform kac cans on sr-15 in noise, gas to the face, and lightness.

You remind me of when I was in-everything Military issued sucked and the civilian stuff was the best. Now that I'm out the Mil-Spec stuff is the best the the civilian stuff is lighweight.
 

RyanScott

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A smaller port puts less energy into the system. And the AR is self adjusting, look at the holes in the side of your carrier.
 

pnorris

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@pnorris please help me, I cant find where he shoots a group after 20k rounds. Your source proved nothing but I'm sure you see it somewhere just let me know.

As far as kac being accurate, there have been threads where they shoot 2-3 moa. So to me the accuracy is up in the air. I've only shot a sr-25 as a fam shoot and the army is replacing them with HKs so that tells me something.

I would absolutely agree sr-15s are more advantageous if even 5 percent of 3 gunners were using them or they were being used in cmp marksmanship matches but they are not.

At the end of the day if you think the sr16 upper is cool and you have fuck it money, get it. Just realize it doesnt do anything better than a quality AR.
Did you watch the video. The first 25 seconds of the video the guy says that.
 

RyanScott

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I own the 5.56 and 7.62 kac cans. An AR home build with agb and omega can will outperform kac cans on sr-15 in noise, gas to the face, and lightness.
Suppressed and unsuppressed? And for 20,000 or 30,000 rounds on the same barrel and bolt?
 

pnorris

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Well if we’re going off hearsay and not a video showing the shooter taking the shots and then walking to the target....then cool. That video did nothing to prove or show anything.

No need to die on the hill man.
Really, so videos prove it. LMAO, I could shoot a group at 50 yards and say it was 100 yards. At some point you have to look at the source and trust what they say. That is a reputable source.
 
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sleeplz

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I think we can agree sr15 is civilian. I don't know of any forscom units that carries it. Milspec is the army's lowest common denominator, it's just not the best.

Im over 15,000 rounds with my home build and omega. Same bolt, barrel, and agb.

I'm not sure if I can trust the video where he says he shoots 1 moa after 20k. It's one sample size and he just states it without proving it.
 
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M8541Reaper

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Really, so videos prove it. LMAO, I could shoot a group at 50 yards and say it was 100 yards. At some point you have to look at the source and trust what they say. That is a reputable source.
lol That’s exactly my point. What I do trust though is my experience with one of the ones I was issued, which wasn’t some magical unicorn that pissed excellence. However another one I had would drive MK262 like a magical unicorn laser beam. Nothing is above scrutiny and, regardless of the brand, not everything works as advertised every time. When you drink the punch and ooze blind allegiance to anything, that’s when you set yourself up for failure. KAC definitely makes great stuff, but I’m not going to suck their dick just because it’s the cool thing to do online. I base my opinions from having hands on and using stuff, not what someone online tells. That being said, I will try things based on what known/respected/credentialed individuals recommend in their articles/videos, but my opinion isn’t shared on something until I have hands on. Too many dudes watch a video and then die on the hill defending something they’ve never been in the same room with, let alone ever used. Not saying that’s you, as I don’t know you, just saying in general.

#Sub$200KitchenBuiltARClubForLife #ItIsSupposedToRattle
#MyBarrelRotatesOnPurposeItHelpsWithTheTwistGain
 

pnorris

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lol That’s exactly my point. What I do trust though is my experience with one of the ones I was issued, which wasn’t some magical unicorn that pissed excellence. However another one I had would drive MK262 like a magical unicorn laser beam. Nothing is above scrutiny and, regardless of the brand, not everything works as advertised every time. When you drink the punch and ooze blind allegiance to anything, that’s when you set yourself up for failure. KAC definitely makes great stuff, but I’m not going to suck their dick just because it’s the cool thing to do online. I base my opinions from having hands on and using stuff, not what someone online tells. That being said, I will try things based on what known/respected/credentialed individuals recommend in their articles/videos, but my opinion isn’t shared on something until I have hands on. Too many dudes watch a video and then die on the hill defending something they’ve never been in the same room with, let alone ever used. Not saying that’s you, as I don’t know you, just saying in general.

#Sub$200KitchenBuiltARClubForLife #ItIsSupposedToRattle
#MyBarrelRotatesOnPurposeItHelpsWithTheTwistGain
I don't disagree with a single word you said. At some point, however, you have to make a call based upon what others who have great experience have said, as you can't possibly test every rifle. KAC has earned the reputation it has.
 

M8541Reaper

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I don't disagree with a single word you said. At some point, however, you have to make a call based upon what others who have great experience have said, as you can't possibly test every rifle. KAC has earned the reputation it has.
True. Well, I guess you could if you were baller enough and just sell em off in the PX once you tried it out lol.
KAC definitely has, which is the only thing that allows them to charge what they charge. 🍻
 
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The DFC

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lol That’s exactly my point. What I do trust though is my experience with one of the ones I was issued, which wasn’t some magical unicorn that pissed excellence. However another one I had would drive MK262 like a magical unicorn laser beam. Nothing is above scrutiny and, regardless of the brand, not everything works as advertised every time. When you drink the punch and ooze blind allegiance to anything, that’s when you set yourself up for failure. KAC definitely makes great stuff, but I’m not going to suck their dick just because it’s the cool thing to do online. I base my opinions from having hands on and using stuff, not what someone online tells. That being said, I will try things based on what known/respected/credentialed individuals recommend in their articles/videos, but my opinion isn’t shared on something until I have hands on. Too many dudes watch a video and then die on the hill defending something they’ve never been in the same room with, let alone ever used. Not saying that’s you, as I don’t know you, just saying in general.

#Sub$200KitchenBuiltARClubForLife #ItIsSupposedToRattle
#MyBarrelRotatesOnPurposeItHelpsWithTheTwistGain

I agree with most of that-but from what I've seen the people that don't sftu about them are the owners. Maybe to justify the high cost who knows? I just know when I hit the range or the gravel pits and pull out a KAC or LMT I have a big smile on my face. That's what it's really all about and I want others to have the same feelings.
 
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M8541Reaper

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I agree with most of that-but from what I've seen the people that don't sftu about them are the owners. Maybe to justify the high cost who knows? I just know when I hit the range or the gravel pits and pull out a KAC or LMT I have a big smile on my face. That's what it's really all about and I want others to have the same feelings.
A little column A, little column B. I’ll agree with the owner defending the price point. You see that a lot in this industry.
I’d never buy another AR platform that wasn’t an LMT, and if LMT was no more, it would be a KAC.
 

kthomas

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A little column A, little column B. I’ll agree with the owner defending the price point. You see that a lot in this industry.
I’d never buy another AR platform that wasn’t an LMT, and if LMT was no more, it would be a KAC.
KAC's are expensive, but you do get a lot of features for the price. Quality rail, quality barrel, quality 2 stage trigger, nice BUIS, completely ambidextrous controls, quality and robust bolt design, optimized gas system, nice stock, etc.

I'm far from an ar15 expert, bolt guns are definitely my focus. But I can see the value in KAC rifles. Like others have mentioned, there's not really much or anything to change or upgrade on a KAC rifle. The only thing I've changed is the charging handle, the muzzle device to a KAC Triple Tap, and soon to be the grip (not a big A2 fan).

When I shoot my KAC SR15 Mod 1 versus the BCM upper I have, it's a fairly significant difference. The KAC is much nicer to shoot - it's a lot "softer" shooting while also being much lighter and easier to wield. Hell, even my wife gets it and she knows nothing about guns. She tries to claim my sr15 as hers and calls it the "bad bitch".

Personally, I think if people don't see any value in a KAC then they are not really taking a close look at the rifles KAC are building. If people don't want to spend that kind of money then that's one thing, but arguing that a KAC is overpriced is akin to saying AI's are overpriced.

And I get the fanboy thing that some people are complaining about in this thread. Recently I tried doing some reading on arfcom, and holy fuck is their a lot of idiot fanboi's on that site that have rifles that are nothing but glorified safe queens. There's a lot of basement dwellers there that love their KAC's but have no clue what general direction the local range is.
 
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The DFC

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Found a KAC SR15 Model 0ne on Gunbroker here: https://www.gunbroker.com/item/855530439 Starting bid $2099 less than 500 rounds. Worth it?
Mod 1s are getting harder to find-so if that's what you want it doesn't seem like too bad of a price.

Here's a new Mod 2 MLOK from Kelly Enterprises for roughly same price: