*JUST RELEASED* Hornady 224 Valkyrie ammo 88gr ELD-M .545 G1 BC 2700fps

Jeffd

Online Training Member
Feb 3, 2011
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#51
It's because of the twist rate being marginal for the length of the 90gr SMK. They seem to typically shoot well in 7 twist in warmer temps and at higher altitudes but a lot of guys were having problems in colder weather and at sea level.

My theory is that this round was developed and tested last summer in mostly warm temps and it was an oversight.
That's a HUGE oversight from a top ammo manufacturer!
 

lash

Swamp Rat
Sep 28, 2012
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#52
It's because of the twist rate being marginal for the length of the 90gr SMK. They seem to typically shoot well in 7 twist in warmer temps and at higher altitudes but a lot of guys were having problems in colder weather and at sea level.

My theory is that this round was developed and tested last summer in mostly warm temps and it was an oversight.
That's why I took your advice and ordered the 6.7 twist Rock Creek from Craddock. I would have ordered a Bartien 6.5, but they were out of stock. As it is, I think that I ordered the last Rock Creek they had too.
 

flyer

Sergeant of the Hide
Apr 25, 2018
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#53
I am a bit interested because I might get a .224 barrel for an AR.

On the other hand, I've got a couple LR308s in 6.5 Creedmoor and I'm a bit confused, I think a 140 grain ELD-M beats that on BC and MV.

I thought it was going to be something like 6mm Creedmoor where you lose in BC but make up for it in MV...

I'm going to be waiting a while to see how this shakes out.
 

redneckbmxer24

Gunny Sergeant
Jan 15, 2005
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#54
That's a HUGE oversight from a top ammo manufacturer!
Not sure how you can put the blame entirely on Federal. They developed the round along with some rifle manufacturers, the rifle manufacturers were the ones making the barrels, not Federal. They were also all going off of Sierras recommended twist which was 1:7 up until earlier this year when they changed it to 1:6.5.

It's hard to blame anyone really, the twist rate from Sierra is just a guideline as it can require more or less. Regardless though, Federal was the one making ammo, not chambering the 1:7 barrels. There were a lot of irons in the fire when it came to the development of the round and EVERYONE was specing 1:7.

The rifles should have been tested in more conditions and they clearly weren't. IMO that's up to the rifle manufacturers to do and make sure it works, not the ammo manufacturer.
 

lennyo3034

Gunny Sergeant
Apr 18, 2010
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#55
wow, won't guarantee accuracy with the one and only factory match load out there (understanding hornady eldm is on the way)?
I had a conversation with JP on this and understand why they went with this. From their testing and from all I've heard about the 90 SMK, it is very jump sensitive. Factory ammo is loaded to 2.247" or so OAL, meaning the chamber would need a relatively short throats to shoot it well. Having a short throat like that would impact handloaders that want to take advantage of 6.8 mags that allow longer loading 2.310"-2.340".

When their first run of barrels came out, they were not happy with its 90 grain performance but it apparently performed stellar with 77s. They have us the option to buy those or wait for a barrel that handled 90s better. I chose to wait but am now regretting that decision.

I really hope Hornady develops a factory load using their 80 grain ELDm. If pushed 2850+ that will beat out the 90s at most distances.
 

redneckbmxer24

Gunny Sergeant
Jan 15, 2005
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#56
They have us the option to buy those or wait for a barrel that handled 90s better. I chose to wait but am now regretting that decision.
By your own account that would indicate it's a chamber issue, not barrel issue. It's absolutely a twist issue too though since the same barrels have not shot the 90's well in colder temps but tighten up in warmer temps. I've never heard of the 90 SMK being an overly jump sensitive bullet though.

I don't know what the jump is in mine or my buddies Craddock barrels but the 6.5's and 6.7's hammer with 90gr FGMM, that's a clue to me.

I think you'll see more and more manufaturers offer ammo but just like the Creedmoor it's not going to catch on over night. I was actually surprised at how quickly Hornady dropped their ammo for it and also Starline making brass. I guess they think it's going to work and be around for a long time, I know I do.

My Craddock shoots so well with the Factory Federal that I have no reason to load for it but I'm tempted to try the 95gr SMK's now that some others are experimenting with them with good results. My LMT MLR I'm also certainly going to have to load for or depend on this Hornady ammo because of the 1:7 twist. I'm leaning pretty hard towards trying some 75gr ELD-M's and 80.5gr Fullbores.
 

lennyo3034

Gunny Sergeant
Apr 18, 2010
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#57
It might be both? JP definitely seemed to think it was more chamber dimensions than barrel twist. I personally do not have a lot of experience with the 90 SMK but shoot with a lot of high power shooters that do. They seem to think it's jump sensitive. They also gravitate towards the 6.5 twist for them and think the 7 is not quite enough.

I'm looking at the 80 ELDm as I've jumped them from .020" to .120" and they all shot well out of my .223 bolt gun.
 

lash

Swamp Rat
Sep 28, 2012
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#58
I am a bit interested because I might get a .224 barrel for an AR.

On the other hand, I've got a couple LR308s in 6.5 Creedmoor and I'm a bit confused, I think a 140 grain ELD-M beats that on BC and MV.

I thought it was going to be something like 6mm Creedmoor where you lose in BC but make up for it in MV...

I'm going to be waiting a while to see how this shakes out.
If I'm reading your post correctly, I think you are asking what is the point and hub-bub all about. I believe that the answer is that it does what it does in the small frame platform, meaning, you could just grab an upper in .224V and throw it on your existing lower and go out shooting well past 1000 yards. Even the best and most advanced AR10 receiver set still adds quite a bit of weight and size as compared to the AR15 platform.
 
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flyer

Sergeant of the Hide
Apr 25, 2018
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#59
I decided to get off the fence and bought a TAC 6 barrel. It's essentially .224 Valkyrie necked up to 6mm.

The funny thing about it is that it shoots a bigger, heavier bullet faster than the .224 with B.C.s that are pretty darn close to the .224 bullets and no twist rate issues.

I'm not sure if .224 is legal for much hunting, I know that there are caliber restrictions that effect .223 on some game. 6mm should not have that issue.

Bullet choice is very good, many more than the .224 heavies available for Valkyrie.

I'm going to start with the 105 RDF.
 

craigos

craigos from Scout 2015
Feb 11, 2017
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#61
So if Sierra clearly recommends a 1:6.5 or faster twist, why are so many companies selling a 1:7 twist?
Sierra changed their packaging/reco once i think people complained perhaps .. as the 224 was being touted, 1:7 was the norm, folks started shooting 1:7 barrels (though i suspect they were not true 1:7) and so Sierra decided to change their packaging?. On midway ~ 3 months ago the sierra spec said 1:7 on the 90 gr, picked up 2 boxes the other day, text on boow says 1:6.5.

My JP shoots .5 MOA on the 1:7 with the 90s, but am looking forward to the 88ELDs to see if can shrink that even more
 
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JesseB81

New Hide Member
May 1, 2018
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#62
I just got off the phone with Sierra. Nice group of people. They claim that they have always recommended a 1:6.5 twist for the 90g SMK, however I’m not sure I believe that was communicated to the manufacturer of barrels. They admit they have received numerous complaints and concerns regarding the accuracy of that round while other shooters claim it’s a laser. There doesn’t seem to be an in between, either your rifle loves it or it doesn’t shoot worth a shit. I just ordered 200 Hornady 88g ELDMs from Midsouth
 

redneckbmxer24

Gunny Sergeant
Jan 15, 2005
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#63
I just got off the phone with Sierra. Nice group of people. They claim that they have always recommended a 1:6.5 twist for the 90g SMK, however I’m not sure I believe that was communicated to the manufacturer of barrels. They admit they have received numerous complaints and concerns regarding the accuracy of that round while other shooters claim it’s a laser. There doesn’t seem to be an in between, either your rifle loves it or it doesn’t shoot worth a shit. I just ordered 200 Hornady 88g ELDMs from Midsouth
Until a few months ago their product page said they recommend a 1:7 or faster twist. You can also pull up old load data blogs from them that also show 1:7.
 

lash

Swamp Rat
Sep 28, 2012
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#64
Wow. I am way behind the curve on this. I've got a 1:6.7 on order, and sorta expect decent results ( doesn't everybody?). At this point, I figure that whichever projectile mine likes will get my business. Simple and straightforward. Factory load? Even better.
 

JesseB81

New Hide Member
May 1, 2018
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#65
Midsouth order of 88g is being delivered today. I contacted Hornady but no load data is being provided. Shouldn’t a company provide load data guidelines for a reloading component they sell? Should I just start low on the 90g data?
 

redneckbmxer24

Gunny Sergeant
Jan 15, 2005
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#66
I contacted Hornady but no load data is being provided. Shouldn’t a company provide load data guidelines for a reloading component they sell?
They got the bullets on the market within a month of announcing them and you're complaining there's no load data yet? You must be new to the gun world. Less than a month after release for products to hit the shelves is phenomenal and I wouldn't be complaining about anything.

Honestly if you can't figure out what's a good safe starting point based on other data and then know how to watch from pressure signs then you probably shouldn't be loading in the first place.
 

JesseB81

New Hide Member
May 1, 2018
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#68
They got the bullets on the market within a month of announcing them and you're complaining there's no load data yet? You must be new to the gun world. Less than a month after release for products to hit the shelves is phenomenal and I wouldn't be complaining about anything.

Honestly if you can't figure out what's a good safe starting point based on other data and then know how to watch from pressure signs then you probably shouldn't be loading in the first place.
Don’t be a cunt. Are you insinuating this company created a bullet without testing and documenting? Of course they know what powders create what pressures.
 

redneckbmxer24

Gunny Sergeant
Jan 15, 2005
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#69
Don’t be a cunt. Are you insinuating this company created a bullet without testing and documenting? Of course they know what powders create what pressures.
LOL because it's just that simple to figure out idiot proof load data for 20 different types of powder that is just a fraction of the powder types that people want to see. Testing a bullet to make sure it flies right is way different than providing data. Alliant was in development with Federal with the cartridge and it's a commercial variant of Alliant powders that Federal uses in the ammo... Alliant only released the data a few months ago and it's very limited. You have no clue what's involved, trust me if they could produce the data that they needed to overnight they'd do it just to keep people like you from calling and asking for what's not available yet.

It's still only a guideline, it's always on the conservative side of pressure, and there's so many other variables involved that it's never going to be any more of a loose guideline which is why we do load development.

If you need your hand held that badly then perhaps you should just buy the loaded ammo. Or stick to golf.
 
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