*JUST RELEASED* Hornady 224 Valkyrie ammo 88gr ELD-M .545 G1 BC 2700fps

Jan 15, 2005
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#1
Hornady looks to be the first manufacturer after Federal to roll out ammo for this round. Using their new 88gr ELD-M which has a stated .545 G1 BC and .274 G7 BC. MV is advertised at 2700fps.

Hopefully this means about brass option as well. It will be interesting to see if this performs better in the 1:7's than the 90gr SMK has since it's proven to be iffy at best in that twist rate. It will also be interesting to see how jump tolerant this new bullet will be since Valkyrie freebores being used seem to be all over the place.

Link to Hornady product page.


Edit:

I just spoke to Hornady. Availability for the ammo is June 1st and I was told to expect to see it at dealers about a week later.

Midsouth will have the exclusive on both the new 88gr ELD-M bullet and the Valkyrie brass but as of now there is no ETA for the components as they're focusing on the ammo. I was also told that brass availability would be dependent on ammo sales.
 
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steve123

Lt. Colonel
Mar 16, 2008
7,350
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83
Flagstaff, AZ
#4
These 88's, yeah, that might be just right for those 7 twists and doesn't give up much BC to the 90's, plus you can drive them a hair faster, man I hope they have thicker jackets and hold up better than the old 90's when revved up. I'm either building a 223AI or 22-204AI because it's the bolt face I have but I think I'll try these bullets first.
 
Jan 15, 2005
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#5
Hornady tech support stated that these should have no issue in 1:7 twist barrels.

I think I'd still go with a 6.5T if I was building a rifle though. Just so I have the option to do a 95gr SMK.
 
Jul 31, 2017
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nice 20 cents a bullet which is what I really wanted still think its ridiculous shooting .35-.45 cent bullets for ar15.
 

steve123

Lt. Colonel
Mar 16, 2008
7,350
278
83
Flagstaff, AZ
#10
It actually doesn't give up any to the Berger 90 and beats the Sierra 90 by a good bit.
You're right and I guess it's so close it doesn't matter, these Co's keep changing the BC's and/or bullets. I just checked Berger and I think the last time I looked the 90 vld it was more like .55something, and the pointed 90 SMK is now what?
 
Jan 15, 2005
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#11
It actually doesn't give up any to the Berger 90 and beats the Sierra 90 by a good bit.
Incorrect, the 90gr SMK has a G1 BC of .563 which matches up perfectly to my real world drop. I highly doubt you're going to push the 88gr ELD fast enough to make up for the .018 difference in BC. Who knows, maybe it has some crazy bearing surface profile where it achieves 200fps more but I doubt it and the factory ammo with both bullets being the same velocity certainly doesn't support it either.
 

lte82

Shooter
Mar 12, 2013
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#13
Incorrect, the 90gr SMK has a G1 BC of .563 which matches up perfectly to my real world drop. I highly doubt you're going to push the 88gr ELD fast enough to make up for the .018 difference in BC. Who knows, maybe it has some crazy bearing surface profile where it achieves 200fps more but I doubt it and the factory ammo with both bullets being the same velocity certainly doesn't support it either.
I'm just comparing G7 numbers. Hornady's G7 vs Litz 90 SMK g7.
 

lte82

Shooter
Mar 12, 2013
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#14
You're right and I guess it's so close it doesn't matter, these Co's keep changing the BC's and/or bullets. I just checked Berger and I think the last time I looked the 90 vld it was more like .55something, and the pointed 90 SMK is now what?
I really don't look at the G1 to be honest, but the G7 of the pointed 90 smk is .259 according to AB.
 

lennyo3034

Gunny Sergeant
Apr 18, 2010
1,781
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#19
Interesting that the 75 ELDm is junp sensitive. The 80 ELDm is certainly not. I've jumped them from .020" to .150" and they all shot.

I was actually hoping that Hornady would make a .224 Valkyrie round with the 80 ELDm. At velocities above 2850, it will beat out the 90s@2700 at most distances.
 
Jan 15, 2005
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#21
Old: .257
New: .259 (in AB)

Of course I've never shot the pointed 90, so...
I've got the newest AB updates in my AB Kestrel and I had to change them. All of my shots were way high. I put in the advertised G1 BC of .563 and magically all of my impacts were dead nuts on. G7 should be in the .275 range +/- .005. The old G1 was .504 and the new is .563 which is verified to be accurate. That works out to a much greater difference than .002 G7.

Just like in the other Valkyrie thread, you're using out dated data to get your numbers.
 

lte82

Shooter
Mar 12, 2013
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#22
I've got the newest AB updates in my AB Kestrel and I had to change them. All of my shots were way high. I put in the advertised G1 BC of .563 and magically all of my impacts were dead nuts on. G7 should be in the .275 range +/- .005. The old G1 was .504 and the new is .563 which is verified to be accurate. That works out to a much greater difference than .002 G7.

Just like in the other Valkyrie thread, you're using out dated data to get your numbers.
I'm using ABs latest G1/G7 data from AB Profile Loader. It says .505/.259 for the pointed 90 smk. There is not an update I'm aware of that shows AB has changed these values. I was simply pointing out that two very high quality sources for BC data (Hornady and AB) showed that the 90 smk to have a lower bc than the 88 eld, which of course none of us have had been able to play with yet. I have not shot the pointed 90 either, so if everyone is getting .275, that's great!
 
Jan 15, 2005
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#23
I'm using ABs latest G1/G7 data from AB Profile Loader. It says .505/.259 for the pointed 90 smk. There is not an update I'm aware of that shows AB has changed these values. I was simply pointing out that two very high quality sources for BC data (Hornady and AB) showed that the 90 smk to have a lower bc than the 88 eld, which of course none of us have had been able to play with yet. I have not shot the pointed 90 either, so if everyone is getting .275, that's great!
Like I said, that data is incorrect. I have personal experience with the new pointed 90gr SMK's in the factory Federal ammo and they match up true to the stated .563 G1 BC. I also said in my post that I had to manually change the BC in the Kestrel because all of my impacts were way high with their wrong BC from the old non pointed bullets.

You continue to base your data off of old numbers. They're wrong, period.

I didn't bother to test a G7 profile either because the drops at various distances matched up exactly to the G1. It works so I see no reason to mess with it further.
 
Feb 12, 2017
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#24
It has taken a long time to get new Litz data on the 142 SMK that is pointed.
Probably the same issue for the 90s.

The pointed bullets have significantly higher BC.
 

lte82

Shooter
Mar 12, 2013
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#25
Like I said, that data is incorrect. I have personal experience with the new pointed 90gr SMK's in the factory Federal ammo and they match up true to the stated .563 G1 BC. I also said in my post that I had to manually change the BC in the Kestrel because all of my impacts were way high with their wrong BC from the old non pointed bullets.

You continue to base your data off of old numbers. They're wrong, period.

I didn't bother to test a G7 profile either because the drops at various distances matched up exactly to the G1. It works so I see no reason to mess with it further.
Exactly. I'm comparing Litz /AB latest published G7 for the pointed 90 to Hornadys G7 for the 88. Nothing more. I'll be curious to see if AB updates their CDM and BC numbers at some point that better match your data.
 

lte82

Shooter
Mar 12, 2013
989
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#26
It has taken a long time to get new Litz data on the 142 SMK that is pointed.
Probably the same issue for the 90s.

The pointed bullets have significantly higher BC.
Ya, the g7 went up like .020. I shot a bunch of the pointed 142s, definitely a great bullet...

Edit: I got some of the pointed 80s and saw a decent improvement over the non pointed, and the same for the 142. I did find it interesting that the pointed bullets seemed to improve the non pointed bc by 5%+ (even according to my actual hands on experience) but the pointed 90 only improved by a marginal amount. Again, never tried the new pointed 90, so I don't have any real world numbers on it, I'm just going off litz' data.
 
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Jan 15, 2005
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#27
Exactly. I'm comparing Litz /AB latest published G7 for the pointed 90 to Hornadys G7 for the 88. Nothing more. I'll be curious to see if AB updates their CDM and BC numbers at some point that better match your data.
So to you, until litz issues new BC’s and AB updates you’re not even going to acknowledge that the 90’s are now pointed and have a higher BC.

Intelligent.
 

lte82

Shooter
Mar 12, 2013
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#28
So to you, until litz issues new BC’s and AB updates you’re not even going to acknowledge that the 90’s are now pointed and have a higher BC.

Intelligent.
Litz / AB released their CDM and g1/g7 numbers for the *new pointed 90 smk* in 2016. It showed a .002 gain on the g7 over the *old unpointed 90 smk*. I 100% acknowledge sierra is pointing the majority of their match bullets, including the 90 smk. I 100% acknowledge that the bcs are improving because of it. I acknowledge you are saying the g1 that matches *your gun under the circumstances you fired under and on your ballistic app* is .563. I do find it odd that pointing would marginally improve over the old 90 while it substantially improves the 80 smk and 142 smk, both of which I've not only tested but used. The pointed 80 smk for two seasons now actually.

As a person who holds multiple national records and won several national trophies, believe me I have nothing to prove to you or the internet. I do my own research, shoot a ton, and at the end of the day draw my own conclusions. My conclusion here remains the same. *I have never shot the pointed 90 smk or 88 eld, and I cannot confirm either yours, Hornadys, or AB's numbers on either of them. I'm simply stating what has already been written.*
 
Jan 15, 2005
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#29
Litz / AB released their CDM and g1/g7 numbers for the *new pointed 90 smk* in 2016. It showed a .002 gain on the g7 over the *old unpointed 90 smk*. I 100% acknowledge sierra is pointing the majority of their match bullets, including the 90 smk. I 100% acknowledge that the bcs are improving because of it. I acknowledge you are saying the g1 that matches *your gun under the circumstances you fired under and on your ballistic app* is .563. I do find it odd that pointing would marginally improve over the old 90 while it substantially improves the 80 smk and 142 smk, both of which I've not only tested but used. The pointed 80 smk for two seasons now actually.

As a person who holds multiple national records and won several national trophies, believe me I have nothing to prove to you or the internet. I do my own research, shoot a ton, and at the end of the day draw my own conclusions. My conclusion here remains the same. *I have never shot the pointed 90 smk or 88 eld, and I cannot confirm either yours, Hornadys, or AB's numbers on either of them. I'm simply stating what has already been written.*
Yet you continue to use figures that even you say doesn’t make sense. Figures that you haven’t tested by your own account but are using them as examples.

There’s no AB data for this new Hornady bullet so you’re going by Hornadys stated BC on it but not Sierras data on their bullet. Yeah, totally apples to apples...
 

lte82

Shooter
Mar 12, 2013
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#30
Yet you continue to use figures that even you say doesn’t make sense. Figures that you haven’t tested by your own account but are using them as examples.

There’s no AB data for this new Hornady bullet so you’re going by Hornadys stated BC on it but not Sierras data on their bullet. Yeah, totally apples to apples...
First, I'm a licensed mechanical PE, in many states. I have experience with fluids modeling, and have written software modeling fluids and drag of various things, from scratch, back in 2006-2007. Trust me, I get it better than you realize, and I know it's not apples to apples. But you know what we use in engineering? Standards. AB data is a recognized standard, as good as we have at this point. Hornady bc data is a recognized standard for most too. Redneckbmx guys internet data, no matter how accurate it could be, is not. My data, no matter how many records I set, or matches I win, is not. Why should you believe my data? Why should I believe yours? Why should we believe anyone's? Do we say that it's impossible to compare any bullets on paper now because all the data except our own is BS or just a guess?
 
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Jan 15, 2005
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#33
First, I'm a licensed mechanical PE, in many states. I have experience with fluids modeling, and have written software modeling fluids and drag of various things, from scratch, back in 2006-2007. Trust me, I get it better than you realize, and I know it's not apples to apples. But you know what we use in engineering? Standards. AB data is a recognized standard, as good as we have at this point. Hornady bc data is a recognized standard for most too. Redneckbmx guys internet data, no matter how accurate it could be, is not. My data, no matter how many records I set, or matches I win, is not. Why should you believe my data? Why should I believe yours? Why should we believe anyone's? Do we say that it's impossible to compare any bullets on paper now because all the data except our own is BS or just a guess?
So Hornady's data is a standard but not Sierras. Do you know how ridiculous that sounds? Sierra has a reputation of having pretty spot on BC's. They pointed their bullets and they updated the data to reflect that but it isn't good enough because litz hasn't re-examined them.

Why believe my data? Don't, I couldn't care less but my data is only verification that Sierra's data is correct. I'm not the only person who has came to this conclusion either.

You're using some old numbers which are incorrect simply because the numbers have not been updated. If you got some old 90gr SMK's laying around then those numbers will work great, but if you have the new pointed ones or you're shooting factory Federal 90gr SMK ammo then you're going to do a lot of missing high.

Your degrees and records mean nothing to me when you can't even acknowledge simple logic.

Live under your rock.
 

Jeffd

Online Training Member
Feb 3, 2011
683
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#34
OK - I am confused. All I would like to know is what is the correct G7 BC for the Federal factory SMK'S?
Thanks
 
Likes: Jhayesvw
Jul 22, 2017
43
8
8
#35
Hornady looks to be the first manufacturer after Federal to roll out ammo for this round. Using their new 88gr ELD-M which has a stated .545 G1 BC and .274 G7 BC. MV is advertised at 2700fps.

Hopefully this means about brass option as well. It will be interesting to see if this performs better in the 1:7's than the 90gr SMK has since it's proven to be iffy at best in that twist rate. It will also be interesting to see how jump tolerant this new bullet will be since Valkyrie freebores being used seem to be all over the place.

Link to Hornady product page.


Edit:

I just spoke to Hornady. Availability for the ammo is June 1st and I was told to expect to see it at dealers about a week later.

Midsouth will have the exclusive on both the new 88gr ELD-M bullet and the Valkyrie brass but as of now there is no ETA for the components as they're focusing on the ammo. I was also told that brass availability would be dependent on ammo sales.
Hornady looks to be the first manufacturer after Federal to roll out ammo for this round. Using their new 88gr ELD-M which has a stated .545 G1 BC and .274 G7 BC. MV is advertised at 2700fps.

Hopefully this means about brass option as well. It will be interesting to see if this performs better in the 1:7's than the 90gr SMK has since it's proven to be iffy at best in that twist rate. It will also be interesting to see how jump tolerant this new bullet will be since Valkyrie freebores being used seem to be all over the place.

Link to Hornady product page.


Edit:

I just spoke to Hornady. Availability for the ammo is June 1st and I was told to expect to see it at dealers about a week later.

Midsouth will have the exclusive on both the new 88gr ELD-M bullet and the Valkyrie brass but as of now there is no ETA for the components as they're focusing on the ammo. I was also told that brass availability would be dependent on ammo sales.
I keep reading that the 90gr bullets might be “iffy” in a 1:7 barrel, but I haven’t seen any evidence of it. My 1:7 barrel shoots them just fine.
 
Jan 15, 2005
6,016
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#36
OK - I am confused. All I would like to know is what is the correct G7 BC for the Federal factory SMK'S?
Thanks
It converts in the .275 neighborhood but you’d have to verify it. I used the .563 G1 along with my MV on the magnetospeed and all of my drops were spot on. It matches the G1 curve perfectly.

I keep reading that the 90gr bullets might be “iffy” in a 1:7 barrel, but I haven’t seen any evidence of it. My 1:7 barrel shoots them just fine.
I’ve seen it first hand. Hornady says this is no problem in a 1:7 in any conditions though.
 
Likes: Jeffd

Jeffd

Online Training Member
Feb 3, 2011
683
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#37
It converts in the .275 neighborhood but you’d have to verify it. I used the .563 G1 along with my MV on the magnetospeed and all of my drops were spot on. It matches the G1 curve perfectly.



I’ve seen it first hand. Hornady says this is no problem in a 1:7 in any conditions though.
Thanks
 

Niles Coyote

Gunny Sergeant
Aug 13, 2007
3,784
136
63
South West, MI
#38
I used .563 from sierra and found my shots to be impacting low at 600. Switching to Litz's number .256 G7 at 600 and 1000 and I was slightly high. So in my barrel I'd put the G7 somewhere in the .26 g7 range. I don't recall if I was shooting my 7t or 6.5 twist barrel at the time though...
 
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Jan 1, 2014
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#39
fyi if anyone wants fed gold medal, brownells has for $220/case (200) and m8y code of $20 off gets that to an even $200 and free ship. cheapest i'm seeing looking at ammoseek.

and just fyi, both federal and hornady told me a 1-7 twist is ideal for their 90 and 88g match loads.
 
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Greg Langelius *

Resident Elder Fart
Aug 10, 2001
5,245
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113
Arizona, good place for me...
#40
I know it's just a marketing image, but that cutaway image of the Hornady Valkyrie 88 cartridge shows a lot of empty space in the case.

That kinda gets me wondering why all that case capacity if it's not all being used.

I realize lighter/shorter bullets could use more powder, but my point is simple. Smaller bullets can use smaller cases very effectively.

Again, I'm left to wonder what problem this cartridge fixes. I honestly doubt the .224 bore is cut out for all that much fire in the boiler room.

Greg
 
Jan 15, 2005
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#42
I've got some on order to try out in my LMT MLR that's also on order and due in around the same time frame. It's a 1:7 twist so I'm hoping it likes it.
 

craigos

craigos from Scout 2015
Feb 11, 2017
1,811
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PNW
#43
Awesome

My Valkyrie should be ready from JP any day now, Adam got his and they said it is a hammer
I got mine 2 months ago thanks to Mike@MHSA and JP ... its shooting .5moa with the 90s, bet it does better with the 88s. Shot it today, was damn fun
 

lennyo3034

Gunny Sergeant
Apr 18, 2010
1,781
138
63
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Southern MD
#45
I got mine 2 months ago thanks to Mike@MHSA and JP ... its shooting .5moa with the 90s, bet it does better with the 88s. Shot it today, was damn fun
Complete rifle for just the barrel? I ordered a barrel from JP back in December. They sent me an email saying the first batch wasn't shooting the 90s to their requirements so I'm waiting on the second.
 

Jeffd

Online Training Member
Feb 3, 2011
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#47
Mine came last week - A complete AR from JP. In the case was a red note stating that they would not guarantee the accuracy with Federal 90 SMK. Have not shot it yet.
 
Jan 1, 2014
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#48
Mine came last week - A complete AR from JP. In the case was a red note stating that they would not guarantee the accuracy with Federal 90 SMK. Have not shot it yet.
wow, won't guarantee accuracy with the one and only factory match load out there (understanding hornady eldm is on the way)?
 
Jan 15, 2005
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#50
wow, won't guarantee accuracy with the one and only factory match load out there (understanding hornady eldm is on the way)?
It's because of the twist rate being marginal for the length of the 90gr SMK. They seem to typically shoot well in 7 twist in warmer temps and at higher altitudes but a lot of guys were having problems in colder weather and at sea level.

My theory is that this round was developed and tested last summer in mostly warm temps and it was an oversight.
 
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