Is SiCo going out of business?

5RWill

Tempest Aficionado
#1
Other than a change in leadership and letting workers off i've not found anything stating they're burning to the ground. Yet it seems to be a common trend that people are taking bets be satirical or not, of when they're going to go under. Is there something i'm missing?
 
#2
I sure hope not. I see they are changing some positions but I have a hard time thinking the largest suppressor company would be going under.

If so it will I’ll be a sad day for me and my two SiCo cans. Guess I won’t be getting no warranty if ever needed.
 
#3
No

Silencer Co is far from going out of business, they are simply having to adapt to the current climate so that they can survive. In the past few years the industry has grown at an unsustainable rate. New shops and manufacturers were saturating the market. Sico is just reorganizing so they can survive the drought.
 
#4
No

Silencer Co is far from going out of business, they are simply having to adapt to the current climate so that they can survive. In the past few years the industry has grown at an unsustainable rate. New shops and manufacturers were saturating the market. Sico is just reorganizing so they can survive the drought.
You're one of the more optimistic people on the subject.
 
#5
No

Silencer Co is far from going out of business, they are simply having to adapt to the current climate so that they can survive. In the past few years the industry has grown at an unsustainable rate. New shops and manufacturers were saturating the market. Sico is just reorganizing so they can survive the drought.
Agree, they grew big rather quickly and really bet on the HPA passing, they were one of the companies saying how it was basically a sure thing and that really bit them in the ass when the market basically stopped. They're just downsizing to get the the size they need to be to survive.
 
#6
They're just downsizing to get the the size they need to be to survive.
Exactly.

We recently did the same thing, in the last few years a lot of gunshops/ranges have popped up and now the market is trailing off. We are a shop that specializes in suppressors and that market has taken the biggest hit, partially due to the HPA and the I'll just wait ideology and partially due to the more stringent firearm trust law. Luckily we were able to downsize to a maintainable level and will now be able to weather the storm. What I foresee happening in the next few years is a lot of the less established companies and shops will close up and this will bring back the market for the remaining companies.

SiCo did something that few (if any) firearms companies have ever done, not only did they push the market with great and innovative products they also worked to grow a great brand. They grew a following that was similar to what Glock did but they also created a lifestyle with their clothing kind of like what Fox did with motocross. There are people buying SilencerCo swag that do not even own the products. A look at social media gives an idea of their popularity, SilencerCo has 512k followers on instagram, although that is only about half of what Glock has it is a good margin more that what The Q company has at 21k even with all the effort Q puts into their social media marketing and trendy naming of their products. There is no arguing that SiCo is the biggest in the game when it comes to suppressors heck they even have a weekly podcast. I know some might think otherwise but I find it very hard to believe that they will close shop. I doubt we see a Maxim 9 2.0 anytime soon but their doors will remain open. It sucks that they had to let people go but it takes far less people to manufacture products (or maintain a brand) than it does to develop those products.

This is just my thoughts and opinions and I have my crow seasoning ready if the day comes...

 
#7
I will also add that everyone seems to blame the downsizing of SiCo on the HPA, but if I remember correctly they started laying people off right after Trump took office...
 
#8
If so it will I’ll be a sad day for me and my two SiCo cans.
I've got five from them. They are one of the top 100 companies in Utah and have had the largest suppressor booth at SHOT show since I've been going. I doubt they are folding up any time soon.

What I *think* has hurt them the most was when they got crossways with Silencershop. Silencershop is probably the biggest distributor of cans in the US, and have the easiest method of doing the paperwork and have booths in every suppressor legal state. I personally wish they had saved that relationship because I prefer dealing with silencershop, and really like SiCo's products and customer service.
 

BoilerUP

Gunny Sergeant
#9
lte82 said:
What I *think* has hurt them the most was when they got crossways with Silencershop. Silencershop is probably the biggest distributor of cans in the US, and have the easiest method of doing the paperwork and have booths in every suppressor legal state. I personally wish they had saved that relationship because I prefer dealing with silencershop, and really like SiCo's products and customer service.
A thousand times, this.

It is really too bad that both SiCo and SS haven't buried the hatchet and gotten back to a mutually beneficial business relationship...
 
#10
A thousand times, this.

It is really too bad that both SiCo and SS haven't buried the hatchet and gotten back to a mutually beneficial business relationship...
If that is the case then that is a shame. I love SilencerCo's hardware from a performance and quality perspective. I have bought a few suppressors from Silencer Shop and hate dealing with them. They have innovated how the paperwork is processed for NFA purchases but are an arrogant group to deal with.
 
#11
1. AAC pioneered the silencers as a lifestyle marketing. More people who don't have silencers probably had AAC t-shirts. Remember the branded for life? SiCo just stepped into that role when freedom bought AAC.
2. Are they going out of business? Who knows. They are in trouble. The press release is so full of fecal matter that something is obviously seriously wrong.
3. The founder doesn't voluntarily leave the company for a made up fluffy position especially when. The company had had a year of massive layoffs and the COO that they brought in from tracking point and freedom was let go a few months ago
4. The other founder who managed to retain a paid position doesn't voluntarily take a demotion from President to COO. A position that effectively sidelines him from decision making.
5. Why is the head of R&D selling off a crap ton of high end optics and thermal on facebook?

There is a lot wrong here and it sucks for everyone. I frankly hope I'm wrong I hate to see a big player go down.

My guess is they are getting set up to be bought out for pennies on the dollar.


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5RWill

Tempest Aficionado
#13
Well hope it isn't true.

If it is...Really wishing i would've spent the extra 100$ on that ultra 7 right about now. Dumbass me thought that full auto rated would've be something i might make use of on my Semis...facepalm. Already had to send my Omega back once.
 
#14
Ugh....im with you Will. Havent even taken delivery on my omega yet and based on the track record of them busting apart ill be really pissed if I have a paperweight. Shoulda gone thunderbeast or surefire.
 
#15
Last 2 Suppressors I bought were SiCo through SilencerShop. Great cans, I love my Omega, and a very very easy purchase through SS. This business relationship shooda been mended!
 
#16
Ugh....im with you Will. Havent even taken delivery on my omega yet and based on the track record of them busting apart ill be really pissed if I have a paperweight. Shoulda gone thunderbeast or surefire.
A track record of busting apart? I haven't heard that. I've seen a few have issues but I didn't think it was widespread, especially considering how many of them are in use.

And FWIW the original cans I bought from TBAC weren't exactly perfect either. The 338p1 got a free re-core to the Ultra baffle stack because some guys were blowing them apart with the Lapua mags. Everyone is trying to push the boundary between weight, size, and performance...
 
#17
A track record of busting apart? I haven't heard that. I've seen a few have issues but I didn't think it was widespread, especially considering how many of them are in use.

And FWIW the original cans I bought from TBAC weren't exactly perfect either. The 338p1 got a free re-core to the Ultra baffle stack because some guys were blowing them apart with the Lapua mags. Everyone is trying to push the boundary between weight, size, and performance...
Ive seen it here quite a bit and read about quite a few others on other forums having the issue. A couple guys at my matches have also said within about 500rds of owning theirs the baffle stack and cap blow completely out of the front of the body. Apparently a weak weld in the core. Oddly enough none of them had baffle strikes and it varried between direct thread and asr mount. But for the amount of people here who own one and the amount sent back makes me nervous. Maybe my state got a bad shipment...not sure.
 
#18
Exactly.

We recently did the same thing, in the last few years a lot of gunshops/ranges have popped up and now the market is trailing off. We are a shop that specializes in suppressors and that market has taken the biggest hit, partially due to the HPA and the I'll just wait ideology and partially due to the more stringent firearm trust law. Luckily we were able to downsize to a maintainable level and will now be able to weather the storm. What I foresee happening in the next few years is a lot of the less established companies and shops will close up and this will bring back the market for the remaining companies.

SiCo did something that few (if any) firearms companies have ever done, not only did they push the market with great and innovative products they also worked to grow a great brand. They grew a following that was similar to what Glock did but they also created a lifestyle with their clothing kind of like what Fox did with motocross. There are people buying SilencerCo swag that do not even own the products. A look at social media gives an idea of their popularity, SilencerCo has 512k followers on instagram, although that is only about half of what Glock has it is a good margin more that what The Q company has at 21k even with all the effort Q puts into their social media marketing and trendy naming of their products. There is no arguing that SiCo is the biggest in the game when it comes to suppressors heck they even have a weekly podcast. I know some might think otherwise but I find it very hard to believe that they will close shop. I doubt we see a Maxim 9 2.0 anytime soon but their doors will remain open. It sucks that they had to let people go but it takes far less people to manufacture products (or maintain a brand) than it does to develop those products.

This is just my thoughts and opinions and I have my crow seasoning ready if the day comes...
He said it. A lot of people were still waiting last year to pick up cans they bought the year before, and then a lot of people just bought half a lifetime's supply of cans in 2016 due to 41f. Obama caused a lot of buying rushes and as a result, despite his anti-firearm stance and misunderstanding of the community, he oversaw the largest civilian transfer of small arms in history. Add on top of that gimmick companies popping up, and new buyers seem to buy right into that shit. My favorite is "broadband noise cancellation" which is mathematically possible, but physically impossible, at least in a soda size can that'll fit on a rifle. "Dead Air" is another technology that doesn't exist, but go look up what it actually means in science and it sounds like they way to go (I'm not knocking their cans, but their name is a misnomer; sound doesn't travel at all through dead air). True dead air or broadband cancellation in a can would shut all competition down overnight. If either technology existed, it would equate to a 0dB silencer, like discharging a firearm in space.

 
#19
And FWIW the original cans I bought from TBAC weren't exactly perfect either. The 338p1 got a free re-core to the Ultra baffle stack because some guys were blowing them apart with the Lapua mags. Everyone is trying to push the boundary between weight, size, and performance...
I think the old thread on this was on the old pre-Scout SH, so it should still be around, but I'll give a short summary for the benefit of others. The 338P-1 had a minimum barrel length spec'd at 22". This is because back when it was designed, short barrelled .338LM's were not a thing (and rightly so IMO, but that's a separate topic). There were a very small number of failures that we investigated that were on barrels shorter than our spec length. But there were a very very small number that failed on barrels at or beyond that 22" mark, which was obviously a big problem. We investigated and found there was a welding defect rate in that manufacturing process of approx 0.25% (one quarter of one percent), and that not all the 338P-1's with the defect would fail, but some would, which was unacceptable. That's what prompted the recall. If anyone still has a 338P, 338P-1, or 338BA with a serial number under 51158 that has not already been upgraded to Ultra core, please contact us ASAP to get this done. The serial # checker and recall info is here https://thunderbeastarms.com/338recall

We completely changed the welding process with the Ultras, and designed and qualified the 338 Ultra for 16" barrels (our proof barrel was a 14.5"). And to date, there has never been an Ultra stack or weld failure, other than the ones we've destroyed on purpose in lab experiments-- which takes a lot more abuse than one would think.
 
#20
In a past life, I was a financial analyst. It is a private company so there are no Financial Statements to read. But their actions are similar to other actions companies circling the drain make. They appear to be in a death spiral. They have made a LOT of bad decisions. They have not had a killer product since Omega. The Maxim9 is a niche product, as is the Maxim50. They need a rebound product desperately.

In retirement I am an FFL. At one point 75% of everything I sold was SiCo. They dominated. Once they broke up with SiShop, they went to about 5% of what I sold. I imagine that I am not the only FFL who saw this decline in share. It was a horrible business decision.
 
#21
I think the old thread on this was on the old pre-Scout SH, so it should still be around, but I'll give a short summary for the benefit of others. The 338P-1 had a minimum barrel length spec'd at 22". This is because back when it was designed, short barrelled .338LM's were not a thing (and rightly so IMO, but that's a separate topic). There were a very small number of failures that we investigated that were on barrels shorter than our spec length. But there were a very very small number that failed on barrels at or beyond that 22" mark, which was obviously a big problem. We investigated and found there was a welding defect rate in that manufacturing process of approx 0.25% (one quarter of one percent), and that not all the 338P-1's with the defect would fail, but some would, which was unacceptable. That's what prompted the recall. If anyone still has a 338P, 338P-1, or 338BA with a serial number under 51158 that has not already been upgraded to Ultra core, please contact us ASAP to get this done. The serial # checker and recall info is here https://thunderbeastarms.com/338recall

We completely changed the welding process with the Ultras, and designed and qualified the 338 Ultra for 16" barrels (our proof barrel was a 14.5"). And to date, there has never been an Ultra stack or weld failure, other than the ones we've destroyed on purpose in lab experiments-- which takes a lot more abuse than one would think.
This is what makes TBAC great, they have great CS and build a great product. I feel like its money well spent when you buy TBAC products.
 

5RWill

Tempest Aficionado
#22
In a past life, I was a financial analyst. It is a private company so there are no Financial Statements to read. But their actions are similar to other actions companies circling the drain make. They appear to be in a death spiral. They have made a LOT of bad decisions. They have not had a killer product since Omega. The Maxim9 is a niche product, as is the Maxim50. They need a rebound product desperately.

In retirement I am an FFL. At one point 75% of everything I sold was SiCo. They dominated. Once they broke up with SiShop, they went to about 5% of what I sold. I imagine that I am not the only FFL who saw this decline in share. It was a horrible business decision.
That's what everyone keeps pointing to, is it their CEO or CFO the one selling literally all his assets? The Omega is a quality can though it has some design flaws to me, the largest being that the sleeve is threaded on with loctite, i'm not suppressor designer but wouldn't it be more beneficial to have the baffle stack welded throughout so people don't experience the problem i did?

That's my main worry is if they go under who the hell services my cans?
 

5RWill

Tempest Aficionado
#25
That is good but i'm still scratching my head with the release of the Chimera. Maybe it's just my view on what i want out of a can, but i'm of the mindset of moving in the direction of less weight/better sound reduction. Like TBAC has done, i would expect the industry to try and match that. Granted again this is from my skewed viewpoint i guess where full auto rating is more of a marketing gimmick for me than a usable feature because i don't shoot full auto. I do see it has no barrel length restrictions which is great but at 20oz i'd not even consider it. I guess it just depends on the person and application.

I wanted to see something that went lower than 14oz and had great reduction and more solid construction than the Omega.
 
#26
That is good but i'm still scratching my head with the release of the Chimera. Maybe it's just my view on what i want out of a can, but i'm of the mindset of moving in the direction of less weight/better sound reduction. Like TBAC has done, i would expect the industry to try and match that. Granted again this is from my skewed viewpoint i guess where full auto rating is more of a marketing gimmick for me than a usable feature because i don't shoot full auto. I do see it has no barrel length restrictions which is great but at 20oz i'd not even consider it. I guess it just depends on the person and application.

I wanted to see something that went lower than 14oz and had great reduction and more solid construction than the Omega.
I'm on the other end of the spectrum, I have a couple full autos that are almost always configured as sbr's and appreciate the bullet proof suppressors that I own. Had sico had these options I don't know if I would have chose them over surefire or even the oss's but I would have thought about it. Now for me personally I've filled those suppressor needs already and am starting to look into companies like TBAC to cover some of my long range needs that are currently wearing either oversized or at least over weight suppressor.
 

Lowlight

HMFIC of this Shit
Staff member
#28
I talked with Dewie from there a couple of times.

It sounds like, despite losing a lot of people, they are good moving forward. The new management wanted to start fresh and new products are on the way. He was very upbeat about the future and was actually one of the last survivors from before.
 
#30
One would think the news of the merger would be everywhere. The are keeping this REAL QUIET. A grand reunion opening sale would be nice about now. I really need to get another can!
 
#34
It's not a merger. Silencershop used to carry Silencerco products but they parted ways in 2015. They just agreed to do business together again.
From the above linked article - "Silencer Shop has just announced that they will once again be selling suppressors and accessories from Utah-based SilencerCo. After a rumored pricing and business process dispute in 2015, SilencerCo pulled their products from Silencer Shop’s virtual shelves, frustrating fans of both companies." See post #23 above by MWM-5150.
 
#39
They are going out of business. The creditors just removed the top 3 executives, 2 being the largest single share holders. Josh Waldron's brother is on the board and voted to remove him. They began liquidating equipment over a mont ago. If anything survives, it will look like AAC/Remington and Gemtech/ S&W. $40mil in debt, and the sales and technology are trash.
 

deersniper

Online Training Member
#41
They are going out of business. The creditors just removed the top 3 executives, 2 being the largest single share holders. Josh Waldron's brother is on the board and voted to remove him. They began liquidating equipment over a mont ago. If anything survives, it will look like AAC/Remington and Gemtech/ S&W. $40mil in debt, and the sales and technology are trash.
What happened with Gemtech?
 

goosed

Sergeant of the Hide
#42
SilencerCo Announces Management Changes

Jan 11 18

SilencerCo announced Joshua Waldron will step down from his CEO position, and Jonathon Shults will step down from his role as President. Co-founded in a garage in 2008 by Waldron and Shults, SilencerCo has grown to be an industry leader, controlling the majority of sales of firearm suppressors and related accessories. Waldron will continue his relationship with SilencerCo as Senior Advocacy Advisor, where he will focus his energy on firearm legislative advocacy, an area in which he excels. Shults will assume a new role as SilencerCo Chief Operating Officer, where he will oversee day-to-day operations and remain heavily involved in his areas of expertise, including R&D and product innovation. Both Waldron and Shults will serve on the SilencerCo Board to stay involved with the overall direction of the company. They each remain the company's two largest equity holders.
The above quote was part of their public announcement. Shults was only an interim president due to the resignation of Jason Schuable(?) in November.

Would be curious how one comes by the financial debt obligations of a private company?
 
#46
I just received a marketing email from SilerncerShop that they have Omega 300s in stock.... so they might have buried the hatchet.
Me too. Nice to see them back together.

I'm in the market for a couple more cans in the next year. I'll pick up a Saker K when they are back in stock at Silencer Shop I'd the price is right.
 
#47
They are going out of business. The creditors just removed the top 3 executives, 2 being the largest single share holders. Josh Waldron's brother is on the board and voted to remove him. They began liquidating equipment over a mont ago. If anything survives, it will look like AAC/Remington and Gemtech/ S&W. $40mil in debt, and the sales and technology are trash.
That's unfortunate.

Will Q make a 5.56 can?