Indiana homeowner shoots thru door at two home invaders

Milf Dots

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" An Indiana homeowner on a recent afternoon scared away two men who tried to gain entry into his home after singing Christmas carols outside, a report on Monday said.

The incident occurred in Fort Wayne, according to the local NBC affiliate. The men reportedly tried kicking down the door but were thwarted by the shots.

"They heard the doorbell ring,” one neighbor told the station. “They heard what appeared to be pounding on the door, and then they saw the door being kicked in or attempted to be kicked in. And that's when this individual fired his weapon into the door or the door area.

There have been no arrests."

 

alpine44

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Guys, let me just repeat this for every who is fed up with crime. There is only one condition under which you can use lethal force and still be on the good side of the law:

When faced with the IMMEDIATE and otherwise UNAVOIDABLE threat of DEATH or SEVERE bodily HARM to the INNOCENT.

IMMEDIATE = right-fucking-now. Not yesterday, not five minutes ago, not possibly soon.
UNAVOIDABLE = All other means have been exhausted and the threat still persists. Castle doctrine and stand your ground come in to play here but it would be wise to stay on the moral high ground there.
DEATH or SEVERE HARM = to humans, not to your car, house, or TV set
INNOCENT = you cannot provoke the shit to happen

ALL of these conditions must be met in the eyes of a jury consisting of reasonable people if it comes to a trial. Depending on who you just shot (at), prepare yourself for a trial. Those in charge do not take it lightly when you reduce their voter base.

I am not a lawyer and do not play one on TV but that's the clear message I get from the books.
 
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wade2big

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Good for the homeowner. Saved his families life. Anybody who says he should have waited is a moron. I know ya’ll are coming.
 
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alpine44

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Shooting through a closed door at someone you cannot see (and who cannot be an immediate threat) is not just illegal, it's stupid.

“They heard what appeared to be pounding on the door, and then they saw the door being kicked in or attempted to be kicked in. And that's when this individual fired his weapon into the door or the door area.

What if the pounding on the door came from someone who was attacked himself and desperately tried to find help/shelter?
We don't know what really went down there but shooting at something that was not positively ID'd is not just wrong when hunting.
 
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wade2big

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Shooting through a closed door at someone you cannot see (and who cannot be an immediate threat) is not just illegal, it's stupid.

“They heard what appeared to be pounding on the door, and then they saw the door being kicked in or attempted to be kicked in. And that's when this individual fired his weapon into the door or the door area.

What if the pounding on the door came from someone who was attacked himself and desperately tried to find help/shelter?
Here we go. I called it.

You quoted what a neighbor said. You can what if it to death anytime, every time. Why make up the story. I am taking it at face value that someone is coming through that door with bad intent. I would wager that the homeowner doesn’t typically answer his door by shooting through it.
 

Milf Dots

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The rules of engagement for Citizens used to be much more practical in the 1700s and 1800s, but even then political correctness and anti-Freedom sentiment was creeping into politics and policy, and that's how we arrived at our overly strict ROEs. We used to be able to use deadly force in more practical circumstances, but now the democrats want you to actually be dead before you defend yourself.

Like in America past, we should AGAIN be allowed to use deadly force against a thief who is attempting to steal something that one counts on to earn a living and feed and shelter their family- things like vehicles, equipment, tools, pets and livestock, supplies...
 

308pirate

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Guys, let me just repeat this for every who is fed up with crime. There is only one condition under which you can use lethal force and still be on the good side of the law:

When faced with the IMMEDIATE and otherwise UNAVOIDABLE threat of DEATH or SEVERE bodily HARM to the INNOCENT.

IMMEDIATE = right-fucking-now. Not yesterday, not five minutes ago, not possibly soon.
UNAVOIDABLE = All other means have been exhausted and the threat still persists. Castle doctrine and stand your ground come in to play here but it would be wise to stay on the moral high ground there.
DEATH or SEVERE HARM = to humans, not to your car, house, or TV set
INNOCENT = you cannot provoke the shit to happen

ALL of these conditions must be met in the eyes of a jury consisting of reasonable people if it comes to a trial. Depending on who you just shot (at), prepare yourself for a trial. Those in charge do not take it lightly when you reduce their voter base.

I am not a lawyer and do not play one on TV but that's the clear message I get from the books.
In my state any attempt of unlawful entry into an inhabited home or occupied motor vehicle comes with the legal presumption that the intruder is there to inflict death or serious bodily injury to the lawful occupants.

So right from the get go the elements needed to use deadly force in self defense are present.
 

308pirate

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Shooting through a closed door at someone you cannot see (and who cannot be an immediate threat) is not just illegal, it's stupid.

“They heard what appeared to be pounding on the door, and then they saw the door being kicked in or attempted to be kicked in. And that's when this individual fired his weapon into the door or the door area.

What if the pounding on the door came from someone who was attacked himself and desperately tried to find help/shelter?
We don't know what really went down there but shooting at something that was not positively ID'd is not just wrong when hunting.
I don't give a fuck
 

alpine44

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As little use and empathy I have for the Left, what you call overly strict ROEs came from US as a whole respecting

"...that ALL men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."

I respect your pursuit of happiness until you attack mine.
I respect your liberty until you attack mine.
I respect your life until you attack mine.

An earlier version of this was "An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth". You are not going to find " a life for a TV set" in the moral DNA of what we call Western Civilization. THAT, and only that, separates us from the gang bangers and the terrorists we fight wars against.
 
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FS1

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I don’t what I would do. I gotta be there. But the story has a happy ending, no one died. Also, had he let them in first? Likely they are dead and the house is a bloody mess.

So this is a win.
 

DarnYankeeUSMC

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Something similar happened in a neighbor town a couple years ago.
4 people, 3 guys and a girl, knocked on the door and said their car was broken down and asked if they could use a phone.
The homeowner went to the door armed with a 22. He looked out the window and saw an AR and then he started shooting through the door. 3 dead on the front lawn and the fourth was located at a hospital about 50 miles away.
Only one side of the story was ever told and no charges were filed. I don't recall if the AR was ever recovered.
 

alpine44

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If you watch videos of violent attacks by multiple perpetrators, store robberies, home invasions, etc. it becomes very clear that this is not a level playing field for the average Joe.

In order to survive this agression, you need the situational awareness of a predator drone, you need to move like a Ninja, you need to be able to reliably hit a moving target while your are moving as well, etc.

I decided to invest in becoming more deadly to those who seek my death instead of lowering my moral ROE's to their level. I still may get blindsided and killed. But at least I did not kill the values I believe in and hold dear. Anarchy is not the antidote to violent crime. Violence is a defensive tool for me, not a business philosophy.

You guys do what ever works for you and defend it in court or in front of your Maker, if that becomes necessary.
 
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Milf Dots

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The Founding Fathers saw no hypocrisy in killing thieves, so I'm good with that. Not enough criminals are dying during their acts of criminality. There's NO moral equivalence between a working, tax paying, law abiding Citizen- and a thief, thug, rapist, murderer. Zero.

Now where's that ignore option... One button- that was EASY!
 
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DarnYankeeUSMC

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If you watch videos of violent attacks by multiple perpetrators, store robberies, home invasions, etc. it becomes very clear that this is not a level playing field for the average Joe.

In order to survive this agression, you need the situational awareness of a predator drone, you need to move like a Ninja, you need to be able to reliably hit a moving target while your are moving as well, etc.

I decided to invest in becoming more deadly to those who seek my death instead of lowering my moral ROE's to their level. I still may get blindsided and killed. But at least I did not kill the values I believe in and hold dear. Anarchy is not the antidote to violent crime. Violence is a defensive tool for me, not a philosophy.
Don't shoot until you ask their intentions?
Or wait until you see the white in their eyes?
Or ask for a time out to skim through a law book.
Maybe there's a ap for this? Hell there's one for almost everything.
 

308pirate

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If you watch videos of violent attacks by multiple perpetrators, store robberies, home invasions, etc. it becomes very clear that this is not a level playing field for the average Joe.

In order to survive this agression, you need the situational awareness of a predator drone, you need to move like a Ninja, you need to be able to reliably hit a moving target while your are moving as well, etc.

I decided to invest in becoming more deadly to those who seek my death instead of lowering my moral ROE's to their level. I still may get blindsided and killed. But at least I did not kill the values I believe in and hold dear. Anarchy is not the antidote to violent crime. Violence is a defensive tool for me, not a business philosophy.

You guys do what ever works for you and defend it in court or in front of your Maker, if that becomes necessary.
3j0mfc.gif
 

Dombern34

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I'll gladly take my chances in a trail vice waiting to see what's on the other side of a door that's being kicked in with my family inside.
 
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Blue Sky Country

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Had the homeowner waited until the door opened, he might have rid America of two more $cumb@g$.

Word...

If you are bold/ballsy enough to try to kick down the door of a home that you know is occupied, I am going to MAKE SURE that this is the last door you ever kick again. The Indiana guy must NOT be a hunter or tracked any deer/predators in his life, ever...
 

Blue Sky Country

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Don't shoot until you ask their intentions?
Or wait until you see the white in their eyes?
Or ask for a time out to skim through a law book.
Maybe there's a ap for this? Hell there's one for almost everything.

----------
Or wait until you see the white in their eyes?
----------


If your main weapon is a .75 caliber Brown Bess musket loaded with buck n' ball, I'd say that one applies.
 

alpine44

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You only need a pistol, a full magazine and to be resolute in your application of deadly force to be effective. Not a Ninja .
You need all of the above and a whole lot more. A few simunition scenarios with folks playing the devil's advocate will quickly convince you of that.

This shit is not going down like high noon in the old Western movies. Watch some real footage of inner-city gang assaults and figure out how to survive something like this. Standing on the X and playing tough guy just because you have a gun isn't going to cut it.

Your hit ratio need to be at least an order of magnitude (10x) better than theirs and you need to stay out of crossfire just for starters. When they move around like morons in the streets of Haiti, they become harder to hit but it also makes it easier for you to own the turf. The winning strategy is to stay alive and take one or two assailants out of the fight. The rest will run once they realize who they bargained with.

Do not worry about how early you should draw your gun. Think about where you should be when it becomes time to unleash fucking hell. (Craig Douglas aka SouthNark does IMO an excellent job on teaching how to manage threats. I would not fuck with him even if I had a rifle and two pistols because he'll make sure that my tools are useless but his aren't.)

Violence of action means the unrestricted use of speed, strength, surprise, and aggression to achieve total dominance against your enemy. Is your pistol able to deliver speed, strength, surprise, and aggression on its own? You are the weapon, the pistol is just a tool.
 
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Blue Sky Country

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Shooting through a closed door at someone you cannot see (and who cannot be an immediate threat) is not just illegal, it's stupid.

“They heard what appeared to be pounding on the door, and then they saw the door being kicked in or attempted to be kicked in. And that's when this individual fired his weapon into the door or the door area.

What if the pounding on the door came from someone who was attacked himself and desperately tried to find help/shelter?
We don't know what really went down there but shooting at something that was not positively ID'd is not just wrong when hunting.

Somebody pounded on my door many years ago in the same fashion. Thinking he needed help or something, I let him in, whereupon he immediately drew a gun and told me and my wife to get on our knees. I did not have time to draw my own weapon, except to take a few seconds to reassure my wife, "It's okay honey. Just do whatever he asks of you. I will not get angry at you. Us being alive and getting through this is more important. I love you sweetie". Right then, the intruder grabbed her, forced her into the next room where I can hear him muttering and growling something at her. A minute later, she came back into the room, tears flowing down her face. I opened my mouth to reassure her again but she stopped me. "Honey", she said, "I am not the one he's after. He said that he is a lifer who had escaped from the maximum security penitentiary after serving 20 years already... And he said you got a cute face and a smooth ass and your mouth is pretty too... It's okay, I understand and I will not get angry..."
 

armorpl8chikn

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Guys, let me just repeat this for every who is fed up with crime. There is only one condition under which you can use lethal force and still be on the good side of the law:

When faced with the IMMEDIATE and otherwise UNAVOIDABLE threat of DEATH or SEVERE bodily HARM to the INNOCENT.

IMMEDIATE = right-fucking-now. Not yesterday, not five minutes ago, not possibly soon.
UNAVOIDABLE = All other means have been exhausted and the threat still persists. Castle doctrine and stand your ground come in to play here but it would be wise to stay on the moral high ground there.
DEATH or SEVERE HARM = to humans, not to your car, house, or TV set
INNOCENT = you cannot provoke the shit to happen

ALL of these conditions must be met in the eyes of a jury consisting of reasonable people if it comes to a trial. Depending on who you just shot (at), prepare yourself for a trial. Those in charge do not take it lightly when you reduce their voter base.

I am not a lawyer and do not play one on TV but that's the clear message I get from the books.
As little use and empathy I have for the Left, what you call overly strict ROEs came from US as a whole respecting

"...that ALL men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."

I respect your pursuit of happiness until you attack mine.
I respect your liberty until you attack mine.
I respect your life until you attack mine.

An earlier version of this was "An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth". You are not going to find " a life for a TV set" in the moral DNA of what we call Western Civilization. THAT, and only that, separates us from the gang bangers and the terrorists we fight wars against.

Special-Kind-of-Stupid.jpg
 

Palmetto-Pride

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Guys, let me just repeat this for every who is fed up with crime. There is only one condition under which you can use lethal force and still be on the good side of the law:

When faced with the IMMEDIATE and otherwise UNAVOIDABLE threat of DEATH or SEVERE bodily HARM to the INNOCENT.

IMMEDIATE = right-fucking-now. Not yesterday, not five minutes ago, not possibly soon.
UNAVOIDABLE = All other means have been exhausted and the threat still persists. Castle doctrine and stand your ground come in to play here but it would be wise to stay on the moral high ground there.
DEATH or SEVERE HARM = to humans, not to your car, house, or TV set
INNOCENT = you cannot provoke the shit to happen

ALL of these conditions must be met in the eyes of a jury consisting of reasonable people if it comes to a trial. Depending on who you just shot (at), prepare yourself for a trial. Those in charge do not take it lightly when you reduce their voter base.

I am not a lawyer and do not play one on TV but that's the clear message I get from the books.
To bad cops don’t have to adhere to the same ROE as civilians.....
 

armorpl8chikn

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In my state any attempt of unlawful entry into an inhabited home or occupied motor vehicle comes with the legal presumption that the intruder is there to inflict death or serious bodily injury to the lawful occupants.

So right from the get go the elements needed to use deadly force in self defense are present.
That's true in his state as well.
 

hollowoutadime

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I have a .300 BLK handy for that exact situation. Even has that evil looking banananana magazine thingy,
I'm guessing the flat bootprints left on the door tell the story. "how long do i have to wait before I wash this off the porch"
 
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slayer 2c

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Lost.........
I need to move to Indiana, here I would of had all my rights violated and spend every dollar I have trying to defend them!!!
 

alpine44

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Could those folks who made snarky comments about my alleged badassery please find a convenient place that offers Simunition/UTM training and PM me. I am going to be on the road for a while next year and will see how/when I can get there.

This is not some chest pounding from my end but an invitation for both of us to learn. And that's what this should be about. If I get my ass handed to me in a training scenario, that makes it less like to repeat the same mistake when it counts.

How do you think we get competent pilots? By letting them caress their airplanes with an oily rag while dreaming about heroic acts? Or by teaching them the basics and then confronting them in check rides or flight simulators with challenges upon challenges until they have shown that they can handle 99% of the shit that could happen?
 
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armorpl8chikn

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Could those folks who made snarky comments about my alleged badassery please find a convenient place that offers Simunition/UTM training and PM me. I am going to be on the road for a while next year and will see how/when I can get there.

This is not some chest pounding from my end but an invitation for both of us to learn. And that's what this should be about. If I get my ass handed to me in a training scenario, that makes it less like to repeat the same mistake when it counts.

How do you think we get to competent pilots? By letting them caress their airplanes with an oily rag while dreaming about heroic acts? Or by teaching them the basics and then confronting them in check rides or flight simulators with challenges upon challenges until they have shown that they can handle 99% of the shit that could happen?
By god I'm yer Huckleberry, I'll set that shit up right now. We can just find out how bad ass you really are! I can't wait!
Lemme just check my schedule...
I'm gonna be out of pocket for January...
Out of pocket for February...
...
...
Ah hell I'm booked up most of 2020....but just as soon as I get some free time, I'll let you practice some of that simulated country ass whoopin you been talkin about.
 
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alpine44

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By god I'm yer Huckleberry, I'll set that shit up right now. We can just find out how bad ass you really are! I can't wait!
Lemme just check my schedule...
I'm gonna be out of pocket for January...
Out of pocket for February...
...
...
Ah hell I'm booked up most of 2020....but just as soon as I get some free time, I'll let you practice some of that simulated country ass whoopin you been talkin about.
Cool. Don't even have to travel far since it looks like we both live in the same neck of the woods. Please PM for details.
 

armorpl8chikn

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Cool. Don't even have to travel far since it looks like we both live in the same neck of the woods. Please PM for details.
I thought you was gonna be all tied up for the year?
I dun tole you I was gonna be out of pocket. I'd PM you but the news is coming on in a minute.

I don't need any training, with sim ammo or otherwise.

I also didn't stick my dick in a meat grinder.
You shouldn't give advice on shit like this, if you believe the shit you've shoveled in here.

You and I aren't gonna be hanging out together and "training". I don't plan on being in this AO much longer anyway....and that is not my inner clown fucking with you again.
 
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deersniper

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Guys, let me just repeat this for every who is fed up with crime. There is only one condition under which you can use lethal force and still be on the good side of the law:

When faced with the IMMEDIATE and otherwise UNAVOIDABLE threat of DEATH or SEVERE bodily HARM to the INNOCENT.

IMMEDIATE = right-fucking-now. Not yesterday, not five minutes ago, not possibly soon.
UNAVOIDABLE = All other means have been exhausted and the threat still persists. Castle doctrine and stand your ground come in to play here but it would be wise to stay on the moral high ground there.
DEATH or SEVERE HARM = to humans, not to your car, house, or TV set
INNOCENT = you cannot provoke the shit to happen

ALL of these conditions must be met in the eyes of a jury consisting of reasonable people if it comes to a trial. Depending on who you just shot (at), prepare yourself for a trial. Those in charge do not take it lightly when you reduce their voter base.

I am not a lawyer and do not play one on TV but that's the clear message I get from the books.
Apparently you haven’t heard of Texas.

And you surely aren’t preaching to the cops here. Lol ain’t no time for rules or consequences.
 

deersniper

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As little use and empathy I have for the Left, what you call overly strict ROEs came from US as a whole respecting

"...that ALL men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."

I respect your pursuit of happiness until you attack mine.
I respect your liberty until you attack mine.
I respect your life until you attack mine.

An earlier version of this was "An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth". You are not going to find " a life for a TV set" in the moral DNA of what we call Western Civilization. THAT, and only that, separates us from the gang bangers and the terrorists we fight wars against.
You are so wrong it isn’t funny. Stealing a $1000 tv / car etc is robbing a person of a significantly part of their life. The time it took to work for and back acquire the item and the time to deal with the theft.

Thieves should be shot on sight.