I'm smarter now,

Dec 2, 2011
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Adelaide, South Australia
#53
I feel your pain Sean, my mother in law had a stroke over thirty years ago and lost all use of her left side, eventually managed to regain speech and keeps telling us that her brain works, just not the body, but I have my doubts. She has been on suicide watch now for a while.
Sounds like he was very lucky to survive that incident. Back in 1972 a guy I worked with had just returned from Vietnam and we were celebrating his birthday, everything was going fine until he suddenly got up and said "save my seat, back in a minute", he came back with a shotgun, put it in his mouth and pulled the trigger, I was not quick enough to stop him but may have contributed to the second round going off so was implicated in his death. I knew the first round killed him, my feelings of guilt only came from not managing to stop him but the lawyers claimed he may have survived the first shot and I could have caused his death by trying to stop him, there was about 20 witnesses but their testimony was clouded by "alcohol impairment'.
Hoping things get better for you and your family
 
May 20, 2006
2,051
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Winnipeg, Mb.
#54
Barney, damn man. Just..... damn!

I am truly sorry for that debacle which went sideways on you. At the same time, I also don't know that the technology today was this advanced back in '72.

Half my issue is, I'm still trying to figure out what to think. But I don't want to even imagine what you think about your process.
 
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j-huskey

Jafo / Instigator !
Jul 27, 2001
1,508
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AL
None
#58
People determined to kill themselves will succeed. That is a known.
You can intervene and put it off, but they will find a way to succeed.

People who make gestures are crying out for help, and generally can be helped.

This was not a gesture. He will try again. Prepare yourself.

Nobody can tell you how to deal with this nightmare. It's a ptsd guaranteed nightmare....

30 years ago, wife's uncle went in closet on Christmas eve, while everybody did Santa in the living room and boom.
Today, 30 years later, you can't say suicide around her, and she will leave the room if it's on tv. She won't talk about it period. Her brother who cleaned it up tried to drink himself to death. Her other brother said fuckit and drove on.
One of my buds put a 303 British in his mouth and blew his brains out on the bed his wife screwed around in, on him, to make her clean it up. She drove on. His children went nut, drink, drugs, jail, prison, overdose, and early deaths all.
Another buds wife went to great lengths to paint the house with blood before getting in the bed and finishing bleeding out, on top of all his clothes, pictures, and their wedding pictures, after she took every dime they had and gave it away. He had a debit card bounce/refusal, called her, she said come home, let's talk about it, and there was no talking when he got home to the paint job. He's insane now.

I had three rehab patients kill themselves after intervention. We did all we could to stop it. They lied like rugs to everything we asked.
My aunt, her daughter, and son killed themselves in their home, after numerous interventions. They lied like rugs too.

I have no feelings about their leaving. They wanted it, they got it, yay for them, better for us....
I am not one to listen to about what you should feel....... you have to figure that one out alone.
As far as what to ask, damn if I know. They will lie. As far as what to say to him..... let your conscience be your guide, say whatever you feel you need to say, but truly ask him nothing, because it's all a lie, their answers.

Best to you. Bless you and yours, and best you can, drive on.
 

W54/XM-388

Online Training Member
Oct 1, 2005
3,030
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Dallas, TX
#59
I sympathize with the endless what ifs & what I should have dones that you and the wife will find yourselves plagued with over the next few years, I don't have any answers other than to live through it & might as well play out the what ifs as they come to mind and move through each one and on.
 
May 20, 2006
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Winnipeg, Mb.
#60
Well, he's "doing better" now. He's able to be "un-restrained" but needs one of us or a sitter with him 24 hours a day. To prevent him from digging at stitches, pulling IV's or any other tubes out of him.

He's getting better at the "insinuations" of what he wants by "pointing" in some cases. One issue though, is there seems to be no continuity on both the Nursing staff and the Health-Care-Aides who're with him. So each time there's someone new, they don't know what he's gesticulating about.

we try, to have clues/indicators noted. They 'say' that they'll not it in the file. Whether they do such, or it's read, seems to be a different story. Cause we're continually getting a "I didn't know" reply with a "deer-in-the-headlights" look on the face.

My Lady and MIL are so very frustrated, and so very worn out that it isn't funny. Tempers are short, fuses are lit, patience is almost gone. I'm doing what I can to keep things stable, organized, coordinated, and as comfortable as I can. They've gone from "avoiding the hospital like the plague" in the beginning to "their daily job of being there, 'doting'" for the past few weeks now. And they are both so happy to inform me that "he's doing so much better".

When I go see dad, he's definitely seeing something in his mind, try to tell/show me something, or reminiscing about his past. The one thing he does for both me and My Lady is very daintily, hold the fingers of both our hands together, and act like he's sewing with a needle and thread, or just string, and passing it above/over/around/below our hands/cloth or canvas, or even netting. His mother, many years ago, used to make/repair fish-nets.... way WAY up north.

So, is he trying to tell us something, OR is he in a bit of a state of delirium where he's re-living his youth, or is it something else? All we can do is sit and watch the show that we're part of, he's insistent about, and continuously does.

My Lady is SO DAMN torn apart that it isn't funny. She's trying to keep it together, but she's breaking down. I don't blame her, and I'm not pushing her in any way. I'm taking her to see the Pastor tomorrow (we've an appointment) and as I said, I'm just trying to create as much comfort around here as possible.

Some of ya'll might be wondering why I started this topic. Some might be wondering why I'm continuing, and/or even adding some of these personal details. Here's why:

I'm not in any suicide groups, survivors of suicide groups, or any kind of suicide fanclub or whatever the catch-phrase of the day is. BUT the aftermath of an impulsive decision NEEDS to be seen.

There are repercussions of every single action one takes. A wrong turn while driving can cost you eleven extra seconds on your regular commute. A wrong button on your toaster can cause the smoke alarm to go off. A wrong impulse/move with a tool OF ANY KIND can have lasting and debilitating effects for both YOU and YOUR LOVED ONES.

If you're thinking "I'm nothing but a burden" and do anything like this, here is a perfect example of how incorrect you are. Believe me when I say that this is both a re-definition of that word, as well as a definite describer of what "loved one" really is. There isn't any end of any earth that this man's wife and daughter won't go to, in order to help. There isn't any line that can prevent the crossing of a mission being accomplished.

And at the same time, it's not at all without it's toll. They aren't complaining, they aren't blaming, and they most definitely aren't losing Faith.

Ponder those facts ok? Then go and hug your family and loved ones. Because you can. See how good ya'll've got it, and appreciate it. Today is here. tomorrow is frail. Know it now.
 
May 20, 2006
2,051
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Winnipeg, Mb.
#62
So, the plot is thickening. Dad doesn't seem to have any memory of the event, and essentially said his first word the other day. With a quizzical look in his 'eye', he said to My Lady "Hospital?" (remember, he's still Traeched and that was an event in itself.

My MIL and My Lady are up there every day, until past midnight. They are both so happy with the progress he's made, and pray constantly for Healing. The Plastics team told them the other night, that "have Faith, and don't worry. We'll make him look GOOD again."

The surgeons also said that they can't believe how fast he's healing. Dad hasn't been in restraints for just over a week now, but he does still need 24 hr supervision. That's only a touch of why The Ladies are there. That's just how they roll. When I was in the hospital for weeks, My Lady would be there first thing in the morning, and wouldn't leave until late at night. They care, and they care HUGELY.

That one event can and has wreaked havoc and chaos now, on everyone's life. None of us are doing what we'd planned on, our lives are ALL on hold, and no ability to make any plans. And we don't know for how long into the future this will last, because of the constant issues that come up.

At the moment, the focus is simply on "continue to keep the house safe and comfortable, pay the bills to the best of my ability, and put on a happy front."

I don't go to the hospital near as often now, as those two TOTALLY get into mother hen/nesting/protective mode when there, and I just stay out of the way.

This is one heck of a process, and I'm learning so much still, all the time. Court hearing coming up in a few weeks to deal with now, too. Fun/fun.

.

Now, I say all this, to point out in a social forum, the repercussions of a single person's actions. I'm not suggesting that ANYONE here is contemplating the same action. What I actually AM trying to point out, is that one person's actions in one particular moment can and does DRASTICALLY affect pretty much all aspects of everyone's lives that are close to them. Succeeding or not-succeeding.

This shit ain't fun, it's a hell of a learning curve, and we're still 'only beginning' this training regimen.

Then, on the day that Dad actually DOES get out, the question begins of 'where is he going to be?' Mom is already dumping the place where they were living together, as she moved in with us the day this happened. Dad can't live here, due to his 'prohibition' now.

Fun fun fun till someone takes the T-Bird awayyyyyy.
 
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lash

Swamp Rat
Sep 28, 2012
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Central Florida
#63
Sean, your story and situation moves me and still I can only imagine the extent to which your lives have taken a "right turn, Clyde". My wife's best friend has suddenly been diagnosed and she is succumbing to stage 4 lung cancer. Our lives are upside down with work now only a slight respite from the craziness of all of the daily hospital vigilance and constantly worsening prognosis. Your situation is multiple times more complicated than this. In a way, I thank you for your effort to try and communicate the difficulty and limbo that you are experiencing. It hits a nerve here, even if not the same.

I wish the best for you and yours and pray that there can be some light at the end of this trial for you all.
 

Greg Langelius *

Resident Elder Fart
Aug 10, 2001
5,556
810
113
Arizona, good place for me...
#64
People recover from outrages by doing the simple things and building on that.

They need stability, routine, and calm. They need a rock to stand on and cling to.

My Wife has been and is still going through long periods of physical frustration; as have I in the past. She was my rock. She just made it clear, more in action than word, that she was in it for the duration, and that's the way I stand by her, and will continue to do so.

The thing I fear the most is losing her. I am committed to ensuring that she doesn't lose me. Some of you may recall that we had a cancer scare with her very recently. She had some depression, bless her, probably a lot less than I would have. But I still watched her with care and caution.

What works for me should be so simple that it might also work for another. A counselor is cautioned not to give advice, that it only works for the one who gives it. I believe, however, that at some point, simplicity can reasonably override that caution.

Stay the course, be the rock, remember that what you have, no matter what it may be, is always going to be better than the void that absence leaves.

Understand also that sometimes, we can't be that rock; either because the parts of the whole won't fit that way, or because 'the system' demands its due.

If you must fight that system, be sure you have the right ammunition and plenty of it.

About being smarter than you want to be, I get that. Between my Wife's illnesses and my own, we have both become repositories of many, many medical, and other, facts than we ever wanted, or expected, we'd be able to encompass. The memory can be selective, and can be trained through avoidance to be so.

Sometimes, that can be a blessing. That's how I got over 'Nam; I actually forgot about most of it.

Greg
 
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May 20, 2006
2,051
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Winnipeg, Mb.
#65
Well, for anyone who's tuned into this in the past, this is still a daily focus around here. My Lady and my MIL are both there at the hospital, every day, till midnight at least. I let them be. They nest, they hover, they dote. They're taking care of him and everything he needs.

I was up there today, as we had a meeting with the main "Cranio-Micro-Surgery-Specialist" who's the head of the department. (I never knew there was a title of such) Thing is, he was the surgeon that happened to be scheduled in Emergency the morning that this happened. Other doc's and nurses were saying that we couldn't have asked/paid for a better surgeon.

I say this because, as I've stated in one way or another prior, the progress that Dad has made is eleventy steps past astounding. Dad was up and walking the hallway with 'the girls' and myself. The fact that I did this with him today, leaves me speechless. As the surgeon said, aside from the shot that he removed, dad still has shot in his brain. ('shot' being plural)

I talked with dad tonight, I joked with him, and I tried to answer some of his questions. His manner of 'speech' is near non-existant, but we can generally get the jist of what he's trying to say. And his laugh is unmistakable. So is his want/desire to "get the hell out of here".....

Oh, but does he want to GO. And to hear him swear, we can't help but laugh. Ya'll have heard the hairlip jokes over the years. Well, seeing as so much of dad's left side of his face/lips/cheek is missing, everything he says (or tries to say) is a punchline.

They're doing more surgery this week, then actually looking at him possibly getting out at the end of May. Multiple things contingent, of course. And there are more surgeries yet, months down the road.

But really, can you beleive yet, that we're actually having this conversation?

I'm representing the family in "gun court" on Monday, so that'll be 'interesting', to say the least. For those who still knee-mail, please continue to Pray for us.

But also, and this is just as important..... HUG YOUR FAMILY, LOVED ONES, THOSE WHO MATTER..... because they're there, because you CAN, and you don't know what is happening inside someone else's mind and just MIGHT make the difference.

I can droll on a heck of a lot about how everyone's lives have been turned upside down, major tectonic-plate-shifting side-effects, dare-I-say 'relationship reset', one family member lost her job....... shit's been hell.

Stay positive, stay happy, stay committed, stay-the-course, and Keep The Faith! Thanks for reading.
 
May 20, 2006
2,051
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Winnipeg, Mb.
#71
Well, I ain't writing about it daily, but it's still happening daily. Every Single Day. My Lady and Mother-In-Law are at the hospital. I go there sometimes too, but there's also other things I need to do. The nurses have been talking for a while about 'how much dad is improving' so My Lady AND her mother stayed home one evening, I believe it was Tuesday.

Holy Hell did the nurses have a hard time with dad. They truly had NO IDEA just how bad he was, because of the fact that My Lady and her mother were there every day, attending to dad's every need. (OCD, ADHD, and simple 'aversion to strangers' creates chaos, believe me) So now the discussion is 'where can dad go where he's actually taken care of? Because he's way too much of a job for my MIL on her own, and My Lady can't be there all day/every day too.

The nurses have been relying on Haldol it seems, and when he ISN'T given the drug, all the sudden they have work to do. Go figure. Also, in comparison, just look at how much doting the Ladies are actually doing. Without being asked, no less.

I'm just bringing this back up, updating, and reminding folks how much a suicide attempt (let alone (accomplishment?) affects so many others, and just how massively drastic that is.

Every Day.

For everyone.

He had another surgery yesterday. As I understand it, the next phase of the process will be to create a jaw for him. Interesting.

All of this thread is by no means a 'looking for pity' or attention or anything like that. This is simply an expose of what is actually happening in this situation at the moment. And for just how long this 'moment' actually is.

And I do this because, there are TOO MANY returning vets who've thought this route was a good idea. There are so many vets here, let alone active duty,,,, that I'm just trying to get the word out of a different perspective that isn't talked about near enough.

And that shows by the amount of suicides (and attempts) that there actually have been, and are. I'm also showing the marvel of the human body for which it can actually tolerate, as well as the medical miracles performed by fantastic professionals who really do take pride in their work.

Credit where credit is due, and attention where it's needed more/most!

Edited to add:
Just got word The Ladies just arrived at the hospital, nurses are having a hell of a time with dad, he now needs to be restrained again because he took out his traeche. fun/fun.
 
Likes: barneybdb
Sep 7, 2011
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Golden CO
#73
STN
I lost you and yours on my prayer list, its been busy lately. Will be sure to keep ya’ll on it.

God bless you and those ladies with enormous hearts of love. They are an inspiration. Many dont know how to love like that.

Elija
 
May 20, 2006
2,051
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Winnipeg, Mb.
#75
Well hell, if things don't just get interesting'er.

Got a phone call mid-afternoon today, from the Brother In Law. It seems, he just came-to, and wanted to let us know. We're like, "what?"...

Yeah, he's in the hospital, had gangrene, and they had to take off part of his calf. (this is what my MIL understood from the phone call.) So we go rushing to where he is, only to find out that they removed his leg/foot to just below the knee. His wife is sitting there, and indignant as all hell when we all asked "why didn't you let us know" because the first thing Mom asked when we turned the corner was "when did you get here?"

He said "Yesterday morning, early."

So, you all who've kept up with this thread to date, have a good idea as to what's going on. And now the plot is thicker. And messier. And what set the two Ladies off the most, is that 'the brother' is located about 75 yards away, on the same floor as 'the dad' in the same hospital. The 'she' is not a welcome member of the family, at the moment.

These Payton Place soap-opera stories I just don't need. Not right now, not ever. There's enough going on, and being dealt with, without anyone going and making shit worse.

Be happy in what ya'll have, folks. Be loving with your family, hug them all because YOU CAN right now, and be content in your accomplishments. I'm not saying 'don't strive for better',,, but I am saying that you should not regret at all. It matters.

and yeah, if you've an extra Prayer or two laying around, I'd appreciate one, for my family! Thanks.
 
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May 20, 2006
2,051
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113
Winnipeg, Mb.
#81
Well, here's the latest. Was up all night at the hospital with My Lady. Different hospital, different reason.

So now we have 3 immediate family members admitted to 2 different hospitals, 3 different wards. I'm on my way back to hers now, as she should be getting out of recovery soon, from her emergency surgery.

Remember to be happy, count your Blessings, and appreciate what/who you have. Shit can change in an instant.
 

lash

Swamp Rat
Sep 28, 2012
3,390
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Central Florida
#82
Damn Sean! That's enough already. You have your three, leave some disaster for the rest of us. But seriously, I think that you have had your statistical cluster of bad luck and it's time to recover.
 
Likes: barneybdb
May 20, 2006
2,051
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113
Winnipeg, Mb.
#86
Well, after being out for almost 2 weeks, My Lady has been 'back in' for 3 1/2 days now due to a 'concerning' post-op infection. I'll leave those details alone, for now. I've also been warned-off from any Alien comments. (the movie)

It's just so tempting.... :D

Things with dad are interesting, to say the least. It seems that certain members of the medical 'team' (?) are helping whereas others (social worker) are interfering AS WELL AS over-reaching their authority. That too is another venue, for another time.

Brother in Law is still having a hard time adapting to his stump and missing limb. It is a bit of a psychological issue that practically anyone would need to 'learn to deal with' to one day get to the point of 'get over' or 'get past' it. I'm not saying it isn't easy, but it is necessary. We are still trying to figure out the best format for assistance and whatnot, to help him 'get there'.

Anyone here have any insight they want to share? Believe me, with all this going on, we're more than willing to accept ACTUAL helpful suggestion and trust here more than 'general innerwebz searches' where disinformation abounds.

Be thankful for what ya'll have.... you don't know when things can change.
 
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oneshot86

Full Member
Jul 13, 2001
5,087
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113
citrus park ,fl
#87
take him some where, knock him over and take his wooden leg...
let him get a hold of himself right there and then, let him swear, act out, what evs, when hes done crying, throw him
the stump and tell him to man up and give a hand to someone who needs it.


i hope your wife gets well soon
 

W54/XM-388

Online Training Member
Oct 1, 2005
3,030
2,807
113
Dallas, TX
#88
Brother in Law is still having a hard time adapting to his stump and missing limb. It is a bit of a psychological issue that practically anyone would need to 'learn to deal with' to one day get to the point of 'get over' or 'get past' it. I'm not saying it isn't easy, but it is necessary. We are still trying to figure out the best format for assistance and whatnot, to help him 'get there'.
Take an AR15 and make a custom designed prosthesis like in planet terror, or make it belt fed for more goodness. that should cheer anyone up.
Or make one out of a Barrett instead....
 
May 20, 2006
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Winnipeg, Mb.
#89
Excellent suggestions men, and thanks. All of that can definitely happen in the future. As it is, where we are right now, is he's still in the hospital, his stump is still healing, as the leg has only been amputated about 2 1/2 weeks ago (ish) When he looks down the hospital bed, and only sees one foot under the sheets,,, that's bothering him.

I've thought about putting something under there, just so that things 'look normal' with the covers on,,, but don't know if that would help or hurt the situation.

It's a brain thing, and I'm not a brainologist. They MAY be sending My Lady home today, (I'm standing by, waiting patiently) and are very concerned with the MRSA crap and whatnot. Arrrggg.

And for my BIL, as he's a mechanic, he might just get an aluminum connecting rod for a leg, and piston for a foot. We'll see.
 
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May 20, 2006
2,051
1,165
113
Winnipeg, Mb.
#90
Well, here's the latest update. For starters, just realize the fact that every day since April has been pretty much the same. Hours spent at the hospital caring for dad, and working with him. For the most part, it has been my MIL as My Lady has had her own medical issues and required immediate surgery and somewhat hospital stay(s) in June. It's been fun.

In another thread, one asked "how's dad doing?". I'm still not exactly sure how to answer that question. Dad's wounds/tissues are healing. The doctors are speaking of possibly letting Dad go home next week. As in, him being discharged from the hospital.

He's had his traeche removed quite some time ago, but is still being tube-fed. That will continue indefinitely. He still can't speak, though he can make some noises. As he never learned to write, really, there's practically no method of 'conversing' with him. He recognizes family, but has no memory of practically anything. What do you call this situation?

Is that 'healing'? Is that 'better'? Constant 24/7 care and monitoring, and Mom is gonna be doing this, herself, at her place? (this is what she wants)

So yeah,,,, that's where we're at.