I'm smarter now,

May 20, 2006
1,916
1,013
113
Winnipeg, Mb.
#1
This-here is going to be a bit of a 'running commentary' as to the situation and the chain of events that we're dealing with here on our end. Some of this that we've learned/experience/are dealing with is practically unbelievable as well as unfathomable.

My 77 y/o Father in Law had a minor stroke/anyeurism this past January. He had been observed by my Mother in Law 'when it was happening' and she called us, to which we got him to the hospital in record time. The docs got him in practically immediately (health-care-aid didn't compute the concept of urgent when summoned) and didn't need to do surgery OR treat with 'clot-busting meds' because he wasn't "bad enough". (Still not sure what I think about that, so I'm leaving it alone.)

He was in the hospital for a week, before being released. During that week, he was in a room shared with one other gentleman, whom was in there for pneumonia.

24 hours after getting home, he started to 'relapse' and act weird. We were called, and we got him there AGAIN in record time, (especially after learning which corners/curves were able to be taken on two wheels :D ) He was then kept in for yet another week, being treated for pneumonia.

Go ahead, ask me how I/we feel about that one.

So, upon release from that second 'spa retreat', he has been a little pissed off/short of temper because of his deficit. Now let me explain.... his deficit was MINIMAL to say the least. At his age, the vast majority of others whom go through what he did, come out faring MUCH WORSE, and that is considering if they Come Out at all.

Blessed, massively.

The occupational therapist was at the home a few times, checking his abilities and whatnot, and little to no complaints there at all. The only things that hadn't happened yet, were the speech therapist and his knee replacement. He'd already had one knee replaced, and the other was supposed to be this past January, but he was in the hospital for the stroke at the time. So that got postponed. Didn't stop the pain/discomfort though.

Now, the deficit that Dad had was this. Item/word recognition. Any family member could pick up items and ask Dad to identify it/them. He did practically ALL of them. Some took a bit of time, and some took a bit of repetition. Except one thing. We could hold up a flashlight and he'd stammer/pop/fart/get frustrated as well as say things like "to look at" and "to see" but he couldn't get the word "flashlight".

And yet, about 1/2 hour to 2 hours afterwards, whenever anyone asked "what's bothering you" he'd reply "I can't say the damn word "Flashlight". Yup, you guessed it, he knew the word, and said the word,,, just not when he needed to.

How's that for a minor deficit, eh? He didn't trust himself driving the truck, though he'd back it and drive it up and down the driveway a number of times. He even drove it around the complex once, and giggled about it. But he didn't trust himself on the road at all yet. None of us pushed him, or forced him to do anything.

Which brings us to Monday night, two and a half weeks ago. They called us, needing help with the taps. We're like ?????? so we go over there, and they were replacing a cartridge in a leaky bathroom faucet. But it sprayed water all over, and everybody was mad. My Lady and I got in there, found the problem (a small rubber seal face wasn't replaced) so we put that in, put everything back together again, and all was good.

Except for all the water on the floor and carpet, and it seem 'pride', too. Mom was happy it was taken care of, and Dad was grumbling about the situation. He wouldn't look My Lady in the eye when we were leaving, but he did shake my hand when I took his to say goodnight.

***As an extra aside, I'll add in here that the itinerary for their first-ever Western Canada trip had just been finalized and confirmed, and My Lady gave them the dates and destinations for where they'll be going for almost 2 weeks in the coming months. This is something that they've wanted to do for decades, as well as Mom had finally tracked down a family member (in Vancouver) who'd been missing since the early 90's. They'd just gotten in touch a few months prior, and that spurred the "Go West Or Bust" determination. So all's good, eh?

The next morning (far earlier than they'd ever normally call) Mom calls and says "Dad just shot himself!!!!"..... We tell her to hang up and call 9-11 and we'll be right there. It seems, when we arrived there were a number of officers/cars there, and Dad had tried to eat a 12 gauge.

He succeeded in eating it, but he didn't succeed in his goal.

There's a whole new chapter of learning that has taken place in the past two and a half weeks, of things that I can truly say I never thought possible. I will go as far as to say that "medical miracle" is quite the statement AND concept.

This is all I can say for the moment, and will be adding more in due time. Cherish your family that you have. Look after your folks. I don't know what else to suggest at this moment, other than none of us had any idea/clue/hint of anything amiss. Same goes for any "professional" involved.

I'm smarter now, but I don't want to be. This is all shit that I didn't want to learn. Please Pray for him/us all too. Thanks.
 

P-Squared

Humble Servant ******
Jan 31, 2012
399
305
63
#2
I can't even begin to know how you feel. My heart aches for you. I will put you, your mom, and all of your family in my prayers.
 

1J04

Morale Officer
Aug 7, 2011
9,818
5,990
113
PACIFIC NW
#3
This-here is going to be a bit of a 'running commentary' as to the situation and the chain of events that we're dealing with here on our end. Some of this that we've learned/experience/are dealing with is practically unbelievable as well as unfathomable.

My 77 y/o Father in Law had a minor stroke/anyeurism this past January. He had been observed by my Mother in Law 'when it was happening' and she called us, to which we got him to the hospital in record time. The docs got him in practically immediately (health-care-aid didn't compute the concept of urgent when summoned) and didn't need to do surgery OR treat with 'clot-busting meds' because he wasn't "bad enough". (Still not sure what I think about that, so I'm leaving it alone.)

He was in the hospital for a week, before being released. During that week, he was in a room shared with one other gentleman, whom was in there for pneumonia.

24 hours after getting home, he started to 'relapse' and act weird. We were called, and we got him there AGAIN in record time, (especially after learning which corners/curves were able to be taken on two wheels :D ) He was then kept in for yet another week, being treated for pneumonia.

Go ahead, ask me how I/we feel about that one.

So, upon release from that second 'spa retreat', he has been a little pissed off/short of temper because of his deficit. Now let me explain.... his deficit was MINIMAL to say the least. At his age, the vast majority of others whom go through what he did, come out faring MUCH WORSE, and that is considering if they Come Out at all.

Blessed, massively.

The occupational therapist was at the home a few times, checking his abilities and whatnot, and little to no complaints there at all. The only things that hadn't happened yet, were the speech therapist and his knee replacement. He'd already had one knee replaced, and the other was supposed to be this past January, but he was in the hospital for the stroke at the time. So that got postponed. Didn't stop the pain/discomfort though.

Now, the deficit that Dad had was this. Item/word recognition. Any family member could pick up items and ask Dad to identify it/them. He did practically ALL of them. Some took a bit of time, and some took a bit of repetition. Except one thing. We could hold up a flashlight and he'd stammer/pop/fart/get frustrated as well as say things like "to look at" and "to see" but he couldn't get the word "flashlight".

And yet, about 1/2 hour to 2 hours afterwards, whenever anyone asked "what's bothering you" he'd reply "I can't say the damn word "Flashlight". Yup, you guessed it, he knew the word, and said the word,,, just not when he needed to.

How's that for a minor deficit, eh? He didn't trust himself driving the truck, though he'd back it and drive it up and down the driveway a number of times. He even drove it around the complex once, and giggled about it. But he didn't trust himself on the road at all yet. None of us pushed him, or forced him to do anything.

Which brings us to Monday night, two and a half weeks ago. They called us, needing help with the taps. We're like ?????? so we go over there, and they were replacing a cartridge in a leaky bathroom faucet. But it sprayed water all over, and everybody was mad. My Lady and I got in there, found the problem (a small rubber seal face wasn't replaced) so we put that in, put everything back together again, and all was good.

Except for all the water on the floor and carpet, and it seem 'pride', too. Mom was happy it was taken care of, and Dad was grumbling about the situation. He wouldn't look My Lady in the eye when we were leaving, but he did shake my hand when I took his to say goodnight.

***As an extra aside, I'll add in here that the itinerary for their first-ever Western Canada trip had just been finalized and confirmed, and My Lady gave them the dates and destinations for where they'll be going for almost 2 weeks in the coming months. This is something that they've wanted to do for decades, as well as Mom had finally tracked down a family member (in Vancouver) who'd been missing since the early 90's. They'd just gotten in touch a few months prior, and that spurred the "Go West Or Bust" determination. So all's good, eh?

The next morning (far earlier than they'd ever normally call) Mom calls and says "Dad just shot himself!!!!"..... We tell her to hang up and call 9-11 and we'll be right there. It seems, when we arrived there were a number of officers/cars there, and Dad had tried to eat a 12 gauge.

He succeeded in eating it, but he didn't succeed in his goal.

There's a whole new chapter of learning that has taken place in the past two and a half weeks, of things that I can truly say I never thought possible. I will go as far as to say that "medical miracle" is quite the statement AND concept.

This is all I can say for the moment, and will be adding more in due time. Cherish your family that you have. Look after your folks. I don't know what else to suggest at this moment, other than none of us had any idea/clue/hint of anything amiss. Same goes for any "professional" involved.

I'm smarter now, but I don't want to be. This is all shit that I didn't want to learn. Please Pray for him/us all too. Thanks.
Again, absolute best to you and yours Sean. Sorry to hear that entire scenario and having to endure it. Take care buddy.
 

W54/XM-388

Online Training Member
Oct 1, 2005
2,780
2,453
113
Dallas, TX
#5
You have my prayers for things to work out for the best.
It's rough when life all goes to hell at once.

It sounds to me like medical errors / malpractice / carelessness / uncaring probably played a huge role in setting the stage for all this.

I'm hoping your Father is able to get put back together & is not in too much pain. Failed shotgun to the face scenarios are some of the worst for recovery pain both physically & mentally.
 
Feb 14, 2017
813
92
28
AR
#10
Damn dude.......sounds like the learning curve has been cruel and steep. Won't even pretend I know what your going through. Keep in mind though, that even if you do everything right, things can/will go sideways, hope things improve for you and the wife.
 

lash

Swamp Rat
Sep 28, 2012
3,239
918
113
59
Central Florida
#12
Very sorry for what your whole family is having to go through. There's very little I can say other than we here will be keeping you and yours in our prayers also. Tough times. Take care of yourselves in order to take care of the rest.
 

demolitionman

Sergeant of the Hide
Feb 26, 2013
1,114
350
83
Ohio
#14
My heart goes out to you Sean. Your Mom needs you dearly. Look after her. I mean really really be there for her. I can't imagine what you and especially your Mom are going through. My father had a rather debilitating stroke 2.5 years ago and he is just now getting through his bout of depression, he couldn't speak for months, still can't move left arm or left leg.... but my mom who is in absolutely stellar physical shape struggles being a caretaker to the man who took care of her all those years. It's serious shit, the transition from wife to caretaker, and I'm not sure what would have happened mentally to my mother(the caretaker now rather than wife) if I wasn't blessed to live only minutes away. My father is very distant, kind of disconnected from personal conversations now..... I think it is from an onset of severe Adhd from stroke affecting his brain. He will call me say a sentance or two ask me a question then hang up thinking the conversation was over. No bye, no see ya, nothing. Just hangs up if I'm in mid sentance. Put it in perspective, 2 years and 9 months now and he is still making progress but it is slow. And still to this day, my Mother is the one I'm most worried about. Support your mother. Heart still hurts for you man. God bless. I know every situation is different for every person. Heavy stuff. Hang in there and be strong.
 
Sep 7, 2011
1,246
878
113
38
Golden CO
#18
Prayers for you, your mom, and your pops.
I cant imagine any of it.

I can explain about surgery vs clot busters with a stroke in the presence of an aneurysm if you like. It was my entire world for a few years before I became a trauma junky.

Best wishes friend.
 
Feb 11, 2017
461
358
63
#19
This-here is going to be a bit of a 'running commentary' as to the situation and the chain of events that we're dealing with here on our end. Some of this that we've learned/experience/are dealing with is practically unbelievable as well as unfathomable.

My 77 y/o Father in Law had a minor stroke/anyeurism this past January. He had been observed by my Mother in Law 'when it was happening' and she called us, to which we got him to the hospital in record time. The docs got him in practically immediately (health-care-aid didn't compute the concept of urgent when summoned) and didn't need to do surgery OR treat with 'clot-busting meds' because he wasn't "bad enough". (Still not sure what I think about that, so I'm leaving it alone.)

He was in the hospital for a week, before being released. During that week, he was in a room shared with one other gentleman, whom was in there for pneumonia.

24 hours after getting home, he started to 'relapse' and act weird. We were called, and we got him there AGAIN in record time, (especially after learning which corners/curves were able to be taken on two wheels :D ) He was then kept in for yet another week, being treated for pneumonia.

Go ahead, ask me how I/we feel about that one.

So, upon release from that second 'spa retreat', he has been a little pissed off/short of temper because of his deficit. Now let me explain.... his deficit was MINIMAL to say the least. At his age, the vast majority of others whom go through what he did, come out faring MUCH WORSE, and that is considering if they Come Out at all.

Blessed, massively.

The occupational therapist was at the home a few times, checking his abilities and whatnot, and little to no complaints there at all. The only things that hadn't happened yet, were the speech therapist and his knee replacement. He'd already had one knee replaced, and the other was supposed to be this past January, but he was in the hospital for the stroke at the time. So that got postponed. Didn't stop the pain/discomfort though.

Now, the deficit that Dad had was this. Item/word recognition. Any family member could pick up items and ask Dad to identify it/them. He did practically ALL of them. Some took a bit of time, and some took a bit of repetition. Except one thing. We could hold up a flashlight and he'd stammer/pop/fart/get frustrated as well as say things like "to look at" and "to see" but he couldn't get the word "flashlight".

And yet, about 1/2 hour to 2 hours afterwards, whenever anyone asked "what's bothering you" he'd reply "I can't say the damn word "Flashlight". Yup, you guessed it, he knew the word, and said the word,,, just not when he needed to.

How's that for a minor deficit, eh? He didn't trust himself driving the truck, though he'd back it and drive it up and down the driveway a number of times. He even drove it around the complex once, and giggled about it. But he didn't trust himself on the road at all yet. None of us pushed him, or forced him to do anything.

Which brings us to Monday night, two and a half weeks ago. They called us, needing help with the taps. We're like ?????? so we go over there, and they were replacing a cartridge in a leaky bathroom faucet. But it sprayed water all over, and everybody was mad. My Lady and I got in there, found the problem (a small rubber seal face wasn't replaced) so we put that in, put everything back together again, and all was good.

Except for all the water on the floor and carpet, and it seem 'pride', too. Mom was happy it was taken care of, and Dad was grumbling about the situation. He wouldn't look My Lady in the eye when we were leaving, but he did shake my hand when I took his to say goodnight.

***As an extra aside, I'll add in here that the itinerary for their first-ever Western Canada trip had just been finalized and confirmed, and My Lady gave them the dates and destinations for where they'll be going for almost 2 weeks in the coming months. This is something that they've wanted to do for decades, as well as Mom had finally tracked down a family member (in Vancouver) who'd been missing since the early 90's. They'd just gotten in touch a few months prior, and that spurred the "Go West Or Bust" determination. So all's good, eh?

The next morning (far earlier than they'd ever normally call) Mom calls and says "Dad just shot himself!!!!"..... We tell her to hang up and call 9-11 and we'll be right there. It seems, when we arrived there were a number of officers/cars there, and Dad had tried to eat a 12 gauge.

He succeeded in eating it, but he didn't succeed in his goal.

There's a whole new chapter of learning that has taken place in the past two and a half weeks, of things that I can truly say I never thought possible. I will go as far as to say that "medical miracle" is quite the statement AND concept.

This is all I can say for the moment, and will be adding more in due time. Cherish your family that you have. Look after your folks. I don't know what else to suggest at this moment, other than none of us had any idea/clue/hint of anything amiss. Same goes for any "professional" involved.

I'm smarter now, but I don't want to be. This is all shit that I didn't want to learn. Please Pray for him/us all too. Thanks.
Prayers man🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
 
May 20, 2006
1,916
1,013
113
Winnipeg, Mb.
#20
Gentlemen, and Ladies(?), we just got home from the hospital. MIL and My Lady looked after/pampered/corralled Dad for the evening. He's a fighter, and he's fighting. He's fighting being there. I don't know how many times he'd grab ahold of My Lady's hands/arms, then swing his legs around, and start to heave himself out of the bed to "get gone".

Cagey bastard, that one. But that all goes for the 'set-up' that he hid from everyone at the same time. But that's another story, for another time.

He's been through 3 surgeries so far, skull reconstruction mostly. Fair bit of titanium plate and mesh have been put in to "replace all that has been removed" on his skull. They haven't really started with the jaw yet. He is down to one eye at the moment. Traeche(?), with abdominal tube feed.

So you can imagine the situation, without me having to go much further.

As I alluded to earlier,,,, some things are just incomprehensible. In eleventy different ways.

So first off, let me thank you ALL for your Prayers, thougths, words, and encouragement. I'm doing what I can to keep things together for the Ladies, and trying to make them both comfortable here in the house.

We're taking each day as it comes, pretty much anything we'd had planned has been on hold, and at the moment Mom still wants to go on the trip. Don't forget, she hasn't seen her brother in ~25years. (Ya'll remember that government thing I spoke of, some time ago about them going and busting up families way up North? This is part of the aftermath)

So yeah, the plot be thickening. Tho very very thick.

Then there's the whole 'police' situation, as well as the extraneous "courts" involvements now. More shit that I don't know, never thought I'd need to, and am learning the hard way, fast.

Thank ya'll, for listening.
 
Feb 13, 2017
3,219
3,041
113
Camano Island, Washington
#21
Sean, I am so sorry to hear this. It is something that no one should ever have to go through. My thoughts and prayers to you, your lady, your father in law and your mother in law. Hang in there, hopefully the darkest days are behind you.
 
Apr 26, 2013
1,815
1,088
113
#22
Shit, man... I took that course too.

My brother ate a 12 gauge about 5 years ago. Didn't make it. Pretty horrific scene, hardest part was cleaning up after, with my dad. Closing accounts, settling debts...

Shit I never wanted to learn how to do.

Family has been a wreck ever since. Time has helped.

I hope y'all can keep your shit together.

It ain't easy.
 

Nik H

Constantly Learning
Jan 22, 2014
3,944
1,795
113
Rhode Island
#27
Several years ago, my best friend's father had a similar set of events but they did not end up like yours as he succeeded in his goal.

I have no words other than hang in and accept prayers from me and my family to you and yours.
 
May 20, 2006
1,916
1,013
113
Winnipeg, Mb.
#29
So, anyone have any actual insight/experience in communicating with a "failed suicide attempt" person. Victim. Culprit. WHAT-THE-HELL'S-THE-WORD-FOR-IT?

He never could really read or write. Now he can't speak. He can sorta nod his head, or shake his head, when he really wants to. Otherwise, he can sorta point. Again, that is if he's determined.

So obviously not right now, but in time, I know I need to learn "what to say/what not to say. What to ask/what not to ask. What to do/what not to do.

As well as other questions I'm sure, that I don't even know to think about asking.

And I'm going to say this, too. The alleged "attempted suicide family counselors" that are allegedly "in place to help those in these situations" definitely appear to be coming from a different perspective/agenda/goal. Let's just say that is has a lot do with a "many lettered and multi-colored TANGENT of popularity" directive. My Ladies got out of there right quick, and are never going back.

They are lined up to talk to someone at our church here this week.

But there's going to come a time (somewhere along the line) where it'll be me and dad. Even though he's my Father in Law, he's still 'Dad'. So what do I say? Anyone actually know? (no, I don't trust the innerwebz on shit like this) And by all means, feel free to PM me.
 
May 20, 2006
1,916
1,013
113
Winnipeg, Mb.
#30
And to everyone, either reading or replied,,,, Thank You. Prayers are always appreciated, just as much as thoughts and suggestions.

I'm not any kind of 'ologist in this field, but I'm now immersed in a "crash course".
 
Likes: barneybdb
Nov 10, 2010
3,151
1,678
113
UT
#33
Sean, please take this for what it is worth.
I do not believe in participation trophies. I dont blow smoke up peoples ass. I dont see the point in suger coating shit. We can go into why,what,who,how, where later but my wife sitting right here will agree that......
.....I would walk in that recovery room and ask him what in the fuck was he thinking? I would lay in to his ass and ask "where the fuck are we now dick head".
I am not saying this is the right course of action. I am saying I would let my emotions get the best of me.
If you knew me at all emotions are what I fight (rarely a good judgement thing.)
But i would be fucking pissed and i would let him know it.
I mean no disrespect and i hope you understand that.
 

vh20

Gunny Sergeant
Dec 2, 2012
1,575
272
83
53
#34
Man I'm certainly no expert, but I would say just be yourself, follow your heart and say what's on your mind when you feel the time is appropriate.
 
Jan 11, 2006
3,299
854
113
Florida
#35
My grandfather suffered a serious of stokes when I was a teenager. I remember seeing the frustration in his eyes when he would try to communicate. It must be similar to being locked in a box and you can't yell for help.

Prayers for healing for your FIL and patience and courage for the family.
 

hlee

Sergeant
Jul 14, 2012
1,146
273
83
40
TX
#36
Sean, please take this for what it is worth.
I do not believe in participation trophies. I dont blow smoke up peoples ass. I dont see the point in suger coating shit. We can go into why,what,who,how, where later but my wife sitting right here will agree that......
.....I would walk in that recovery room and ask him what in the fuck was he thinking? I would lay in to his ass and ask "where the fuck are we now dick head".
I am not saying this is the right course of action. I am saying I would let my emotions get the best of me.
If you knew me at all emotions are what I fight (rarely a good judgement thing.)
But i would be fucking pissed and i would let him know it.
I mean no disrespect and i hope you understand that.
This^^^ He sounds like a cagey old bastard. He'll be looking out for soft, compassionate understanding. Catch him off guard with "What the fuckity fuck fucker?!!?" And then stop and listen, for however long it takes. Don't blink, he'll expect you to crumble when the silence gets awkward.
 
May 20, 2006
1,916
1,013
113
Winnipeg, Mb.
#37
This^^^ He sounds like a cagey old bastard. He'll be looking out for soft, compassionate understanding. Catch him off guard with "What the fuckity fuck fucker?!!?" And then stop and listen, for however long it takes. Don't blink, he'll expect you to crumble when the silence gets awkward.
yeah,,,, ^^^this^^^ except he doesn't have a mouth anymore. And breathes through a treache. And never really could read or write. So yeah, he has heard from me, my thoughts and questions. As well as any and all messages that his wife and daughter wanted me to pass on to him. With the (at least) one good ear he has left.

Love/hate/anger/support/confusion/caring/indifference...... all this and My Lady wants to strangle her dad for doing all this to himself let alone all of us.

Hug your family. Smile, laugh, talk..... Be With Your Family..... because you CAN. Right now, you CAN. Not everyone can, and that sucks.
 
Likes: barneybdb

Rthur

Philomath
Apr 16, 2010
6,257
2,481
113
50
Divernon, Illinios
#38
yeah,,,, ^^^this^^^ except he doesn't have a mouth anymore. And breathes through a treache. And never really could read or write. So yeah, he has heard from me, my thoughts and questions. As well as any and all messages that his wife and daughter wanted me to pass on to him. With the (at least) one good ear he has left.

Love/hate/anger/support/confusion/caring/indifference...... all this and My Lady wants to strangle her dad for doing all this to himself let alone all of us.

Hug your family. Smile, laugh, talk..... Be With Your Family..... because you CAN. Right now, you CAN. Not everyone can, and that sucks.
This may be an odd suggestion but here goes.
If he/you have the desire you could learn sign language together.
This may be an outlet to further frustrations sure to be experienced in the future.

R
 

Greg Langelius *

Resident Elder Fart
Aug 10, 2001
5,496
768
113
Arizona, good place for me...
#39
What I would call him is a recovering patient, because that's precisely what he is right now.

Any other description would needs be judgemental and unforgivably intrusive.

Sometimes governments think they are entitled to 'Manage" families. They are dead wrong on that. Introducing a governmental angle into such a family tragedy is arrogant and domineering.

Tell them to Piss Off, their assistance is neither desired nor required.

If they won't listen to you, buy a lawyer and throw them at the intruders. Occasionally, they do have their uses.

Greg

I can't say generically, but suicide is a genuine facet of reality; and avoiding the consideration of reality, in any aspect, is unnatural and unproductive.

Everybody should, and probably has, given the subject at least some abstract thought; even if it's only to fabricate a strategy in advance for dealing with one's inevitable occasional patches of depression. That's actually a healthy activity.

I've had such moments of abstract speculation. My outtake is that, for me, it would needs be a cowardly and lazy way out of an avoidable outcome, and an error of monstrous proportions. It is the very most precise definitions of a failure of imagination. I think about my family happening innocently upon the aftermath, and that's an intolerable mental image. I look back at my past, and realize that when things looked darkest (and some of my options have looked positively Stygian) later, they were all weathered successfully. Bailing then would have never allowed me to enjoy my current ecstatically (ahem) bright present situation.

Whenever one's psyche tries to tell one that one can't go on living with whichever intolerable situation of the day is present; it's one of Old Scratch's cons. Don't play.
 
Last edited:

pmclaine

Gunny Sergeant
Nov 6, 2011
7,394
3,962
113
50
MA
#42
Sean, please take this for what it is worth.
I do not believe in participation trophies. I dont blow smoke up peoples ass. I dont see the point in suger coating shit. We can go into why,what,who,how, where later but my wife sitting right here will agree that......
.....I would walk in that recovery room and ask him what in the fuck was he thinking? I would lay in to his ass and ask "where the fuck are we now dick head".
I am not saying this is the right course of action. I am saying I would let my emotions get the best of me.
If you knew me at all emotions are what I fight (rarely a good judgement thing.)
But i would be fucking pissed and i would let him know it.
I mean no disrespect and i hope you understand that.
I wouldnt recommend this.

I dont know what Seans FIL was thinking but in light of the history just prior Id imagine in a misguided way he thought he was helping.

Im sure he thought that his stroke injuries were somehow a burden on the family and he just didnt want to be a burden.

Sounds like he was a very independent guy not used to having the need for help.

I imagine many here should be saying "there but for the Grace of God...."

Very sorry for the family. Dont judge the FIL let him know its okay and you are glad he is still with you.
 

TripleBull

This one goes to 11
Feb 13, 2017
2,442
4,585
113
Sunny Colorado
#43
So, anyone have any actual insight/experience in communicating with a "failed suicide attempt" person. Victim. Culprit. WHAT-THE-HELL'S-THE-WORD-FOR-IT?
A guy that worked for me failed twice then got it done. "Third time's a charm" was a bitter pill for me because he came to me a few times over his last year and I did my best to get him the help he needed. He was kind of an oddball character but I really liked him because he had unique skills and was really creative. He forced me to look at things differently. He killed himself because his health was declining and his family was oblivious. I'd like to believe that I could never find myself walking down that same path. I'd hope that courage would win out and that I'd fight to do the right thing for my family.
 
May 20, 2006
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Winnipeg, Mb.
#44
I've been reading what ya'll have been saying. Nothing is being discounted. My Father In Law (Dad) is quite the man.

Dad will be 78 in about 2 months.
The amount of "deficit" that he had from the stroke/anyeurism he had this past January was SO minimal that it borderlines on pathetic.
--I say this, because in general, when someone has a stroke they have a life-changing, ability-removing situation.
-----Dad couldn't find a few words. THAT'S IT. He held himself back from driving, because he wasn't sure of himself.
We didn't push him, we didn't force him, all we ALL did was support him.
We were all encouraging, whenever they needed something we were there, and it wasn't an issue for any of us.
--We all were just so Thankful that we still had Dad, and that Dad was all there and all "right" (as stated, the amount of that which wasn't 'right' was so minimal as to not be concerned about)
This is why I was asking about "Pride". Is it/could it be something as simple as "If I can't be perfect then I can't be here?" type of thing?

The prior planning, scheming, conniving, and set-up that he did shows something, in and of itself.
This was no spur-of-the-moment type of knee-jerk action/reaction...... he'd been working on this for a while. Evidence shows.

For the first week, the Family was full of incredulity as to 'how the hell could he do this to himself and to us?' but now the immediate family are almost always at his bedside. To my knowledge, he hasn't pushed anyone away.

It was suggested to us that we look at ASL (American Sign Language) as a means of communication. I truly do appreciate the intent. Now I have to see if there's a way to start that going straight to 'words' as he doesn't exactly know the alphabet to begin with.
He was a heavy-equipment operator all his life. Way the hell up north. I'm talking polar bears and eskimo's North. Literally.

He has regaled me with stories of 'how to survive on the tundra'...... even to include some things that 'civilization' would/are repulsed by it. The words "trolling" and "owls" in the same sentence sets most people off. They sure did things different "way back when" and "way up there".

So yeah, he's a tough old bastard. And he's fished in and hunted along Hudson Bay almost all his life.
 
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pmclaine

Gunny Sergeant
Nov 6, 2011
7,394
3,962
113
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MA
#45
I've been reading what ya'll have been saying. Nothing is being discounted. My Father In Law (Dad) is quite the man.

Dad will be 78 in about 2 months.
The amount of "deficit" that he had from the stroke/anyeurism he had this past January was SO minimal that it borderlines on pathetic.
--I say this, because in general, when someone has a stroke they have a life-changing, ability-removing situation.
-----Dad couldn't find a few words. THAT'S IT. He held himself back from driving, because he wasn't sure of himself.
We didn't push him, we didn't force him, all we ALL did was support him.
We were all encouraging, whenever they needed something we were there, and it wasn't an issue for any of us.
--We all were just so Thankful that we still had Dad, and that Dad was all there and all "right" (as stated, the amount of that which wasn't 'right' was so minimal as to not be concerned about)
This is why I was asking about "Pride". Is it/could it be something as simple as "If I can't be perfect then I can't be here?" type of thing?

The prior planning, scheming, conniving, and set-up that he did shows something, in and of itself.
This was no spur-of-the-moment type of knee-jerk action/reaction...... he'd been working on this for a while. Evidence shows.

For the first week, the Family was full of incredulity as to 'how the hell could he do this to himself and to us?' but now the immediate family are almost always at his bedside. To my knowledge, he hasn't pushed anyone away.

It was suggested to us that we look at ASL (American Sign Language) as a means of communication. I truly do appreciate the intent. Now I have to see if there's a way to start that going straight to 'words' as he doesn't exactly know the alphabet to begin with.
He was a heavy-equipment operator all his life. Way the hell up north. I'm talking polar bears and eskimo's North. Literally.

He has regaled me with stories of 'how to survive on the tundra'...... even to include some things that 'civilization' would/are repulsed by it. The words "trolling" and "owls" in the same sentence sets most people off. They sure did things different "way back when" and "way up there".

So yeah, he's a tough old bastard. And he's fished in and hunted along Hudson Bay almost all his life.
You never know how much injury the brain gets from something and a brain block/bleed I imagine can push various behavior buttons.

Im dealing with strep induced brain injury in a kid that has provided us with someone much altered from the kid he was just 8 weeks ago.

Im learning the brain is a complicated piece of equipment that a Super Cray weighing in at tons can only mimic to the extent we program it yet that pound or so of mush is autonomously aware.

Incredible yet fragile, fortunately self healing, especially so in kids.

If FIL is also "Grandpa" I hope the kids are coping well.

Its a lot to digest.

Just keep in mind there is "no guilt". Dont try to second guess stuff. I imagine he is doing enough of that for everyone involved.
 

lash

Swamp Rat
Sep 28, 2012
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59
Central Florida
#46
I know little enough about these things. I do however, know empathy and some little bit of understanding from an experience with a friend. A guy in his 30's had a fall on his head brain injury. A little bit of rehab and he was given a clean bill of health. However, his personality changed completely. Once a friendly, caring and decent guy, he became mean and withdrawn. He divorced his wife of 10 years, taking as much money with him as he could, withdrew from all his life friends and moved to another state. None have heard from him since.

Point being the same as pmclain; unseen brain injury can change a person in ways that they don't show to the outside world and/or it can change them in more visible ways.

In any case, this still leaves all of you with a tremendous amount of questions and pain, despite what some might say it should feel like. I wish for you all the strength to cope and to grow in some way from this, even if that might take some long time to be.
 
May 20, 2006
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Winnipeg, Mb.
#47
Lash, PMcLain, et al....

"Clean bill of health"

That statement, regarding the 'mental health' situation of an individual..... is an apparition of a shadow of a fact. ESPECIALLY concerning the so-called "professionals".... whom either don't look, don't know to look, or don't WANT to look..... (liability/responsibility issues?) I don't know.

It seems though, (and on this I'm also including my own personal experiences) that if a person can "continue with a heart-beat, tie their own shoes, wipe their own ass, and drink a glass of water when they're thirsty" all at the same time as not forgetting to breathe,,,,, then they're 'fine' and good to go-forth and prosper.

Or, in insurance legalese, they "Can go back to work".

And yet......
 
May 20, 2006
1,916
1,013
113
Winnipeg, Mb.
#48
So, cause and effect.
The effect of the blast was to quite literally decimate his face/skull. That in and of itself is quite the thing, and I'm leaving it alone for now.

The ability of the medical professionals to stabilize him, keep him alive in transport, and then start putting him back together in the hospital is miraculously astounding. Feats were accomplished that I had no idea could be possible, and they made everything look so 'regular'. (I don't want to know if it is) At the same time, I have to shake my head in wonder. This gentleman whom tried to end things, is getting all of the attention from everyone, in every department, with 24hour handlers and watchers.

And yet there are so many other people (awaiting knee replacements, for example) whom are on waiting lists for a few years, and that is only once they are old enough to be on the list to begin with. A few people I know have been told they're going to need a new knee, but they're not old enough. IN WHAT UNIVERSE is it more beneficial to receive a new knee when it can't nearly be appreciated/used nowhere near as much????

(ya'll get my point of confusion, right?) Then there are so many other waiting lists, and whatnot,,,, weeks, months, and in some cases 'years',,,, for 'general people' to progress.

This is just a step in the stage of progression, of what happened, what's happening, and the ever-asked question of "what's going to happen"???? There is so much unanswered, and "time will tell" and "wait and see".

And then, on a whole other note, there is a completely different and also important situation involving the police, the Provincial Courts, the Federal Laws..... and the aftermath therein.

All of which has yet to be played out, though some have the opinion or perspective of "finality and doneness". These here are yet MORE tangents and vectors and "simple situations" that are over-complicated by paragraphs, sections, subsections, and parenthesies's"

As I stated to begin with, "I'm getting smarter". I'm learning a whole new tangent on firearms laws and whatnot. You want a kicker? Upon bringing all of the immediate things to the attention of the family lawyer, he passed us to a person 'more specialized' in what we're going through. His words:

"you seem to have a good handle on things, so you'd be better off representing yourself instead of paying me to stand there and say what you're saying to me".

Professional advice, huh? I know what I don't know. I know a lot. I also know, there's a LOT more that I don't know. I question whether I know enough....

I'm almost at the point of saying "I don't want to be smarter", but I know I'll continue learning until the day I die. Which won't be for a long, long time. And first, I have to travel to a galaxy. One that is far, far away.....

Somebody get Elon on the phone!
 

sandwarrior

Gunny Sergeant
Apr 21, 2007
4,507
316
83
in yooperland
#49
Holy shit Sean! That's a helluva lot to go through, and then get drug through again. I hope you all can bear this heavy load life has brought to you and not have to set it down before you've all been able to see it through.
 
Aug 30, 2008
701
164
43
tn
#50
"This gentleman whom tried to end things, is getting all of the attention from everyone, in every department, with 24hour handlers and watchers."


Weird aint it.

At least his brain didnt shoot out during a dressing change like a can of snakes.
 
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