Hoplite Arms

MarinePMI

Battery Operated Grunt
Belligerents
Jun 3, 2010
5,113
4,649
219
San Diego, Ca
Hi,

The current barrel technology..more specifically the common barrel alloy is the weak link in the shooting world IMO; similar as to tires would be considered the weak link in a dragster build. Luckily they are much much cheaper to replace than the engine :).

But luckily the projectile industry has advanced and is advancing at pretty fast pace, especially the bearing surface to length ratios!!

And even though barrel tech/alloy has not changed fast enough, we are lucky to have companies in the industry that not only are willing to modify the lands/groove ratios but also the depth of engraving forces...this is something that when paired with some of the modern monolithics is and can improve barrel life per say.

Along with some of the aftermarket alloy treatments.....barrel life can be extended slightly, but with that being said.....They are the "tires" in our drag cars and are consumable items.

OT Pure Academic Discussion:
I personally see the barrel advancements going to progressive "bore"...not progressive twist but an actually shrinking of the lands/groove dimensions. This paired with a monothic solid built with sacrificial varied OD "sealing bands" could possibly work or the backdrilled projectile design of @Jim Boatright in which the rear of projectile would fan out and seal the larger side of the barrel yet "squeeze" down to the progressive bore as going down the barrel :unsure:.


Sincerely,
Theis
So basically, a precision swaged bore barrel. Makes sense to me. Played around with swaged bores a little, the last time they were all the rage in the rimfire world. There were some impressive performance numbers as a result, but still was expensive to produce and risky from a liability perspective. Perhaps the timing is right now, for this to take hold(?)...
 
  • Love
Reactions: THEIS

W54/XM-388

Online Training Member
Online Training Access
Belligerents
Oct 1, 2005
6,663
10,861
219
Dallas, TX
Hi,

The current barrel technology..more specifically the common barrel alloy is the weak link in the shooting world IMO; similar as to tires would be considered the weak link in a dragster build. Luckily they are much much cheaper to replace than the engine :).

But luckily the projectile industry has advanced and is advancing at pretty fast pace, especially the bearing surface to length ratios!!

And even though barrel tech/alloy has not changed fast enough, we are lucky to have companies in the industry that not only are willing to modify the lands/groove ratios but also the depth of engraving forces...this is something that when paired with some of the modern monolithics is and can improve barrel life per say.

Along with some of the aftermarket alloy treatments.....barrel life can be extended slightly, but with that being said.....They are the "tires" in our drag cars and are consumable items.

Sincerely,
Theis
Do you have an idea what the current production cost for Cobalt / High Cobalt alloy barrels is, assuming using the supposedly slightly cheaper ceramic insets for casting instead of milling only?
 

THEIS

Hi, Sincerely
Commercial Supporter
Belligerents
Nov 27, 2017
4,177
11,554
119
Enon Louisiana
hoplitearms.com
Do you have an idea what the current production cost for Cobalt / High Cobalt alloy barrels is, assuming using the supposedly slightly cheaper ceramic insets for casting instead of milling only?
Hi,

That I do not know....I just briefly checked my alloy catalogs and for some reason the Cobalt 6B is only being shown in 6 and 12 inch lengths....let me email the alloy company and for giggles see what 30 inch length at 2 inch diameter C6B would cost.....

Sincerely,
Theis
 
  • Like
Reactions: W54/XM-388

LeftyJason

Thumbnail-les
Belligerents
Mar 8, 2017
736
935
99
33
Kaysville Utah
Hi,

That I do not know....I just briefly checked my alloy catalogs and for some reason the Cobalt 6B is only being shown in 6 and 12 inch lengths....let me email the alloy company and for giggles see what 30 inch length at 2 inch diameter C6B would cost.....

Sincerely,
Theis
I wouldn't want to cut it by any means other than grinding. Ground threads are nice. Mar m 247 is a pain with carbide and it's only got 9.25% cobalt along with 9.5 tungsten, 8.25 chrome, a little carbon, and the rest nickel.
 

brianf

Private
Belligerents
Apr 8, 2010
1,927
1,826
219
42
NY
I’m thinking the only way to make cobalt barrel of sorts would be hammer forging.
Not sure it it’s even possible but that would reduce the amount of cutting exponentially.
 
  • Like
Reactions: THEIS and MarinePMI

THEIS

Hi, Sincerely
Commercial Supporter
Belligerents
Nov 27, 2017
4,177
11,554
119
Enon Louisiana
hoplitearms.com
Hi,

Now.....OT and purely academic......There is some talk of an international company in the R&D phase of a new 2 part barrel system.

1 part would be essentially a smooth bored barrel.
1 part would be cobalt 6 with hammer forged rifling done with Cobalt 6 in "open face" (flat) form, then with some crazy presses....roll the flat into circular barrel insert and press into part 1.

I know of no particulars of that R&D, other than heard discussions of it progressing.

Back to Topic, lol...Was busy day today; machining receiver bodies...here is MasterCam of the bolt guide fitment.

Bolt Guide.png

Sincerely,
Theis
 
  • Like
Reactions: rydah

b6graham

MMPRL
Belligerents
Jul 29, 2014
3,387
2,578
219
patiently waiting for scope mount updates...i might have a new 30mm in a few weeks
 
  • Like
Reactions: lash

THEIS

Hi, Sincerely
Commercial Supporter
Belligerents
Nov 27, 2017
4,177
11,554
119
Enon Louisiana
hoplitearms.com
Are those totally finished?
What color I can’t tell?
Hi,

Those are in the raw AISI 4130, vacuum hardened throughout to a HRC 45.

Just FWIW...the trigger guard piece and the magazine bottom metal piece are 2 different pieces even though it looks as if they are a single unit.

Standby for metal coating announcement shortly!!

Hi,

Crap...I had the one 3 spots above that one picked out for you since they are lined out in delivery order...some lucky guys just got bumped ahead of delivery order because you so graciously opted to be lower on delivery list, hahahaha


Sincerely,
Theis
 

lash

Swamp Rat
Belligerents
Sep 28, 2012
5,160
4,067
219
60
Central Florida
Hi,

Those are in the raw AISI 4130, vacuum hardened throughout to a HRC 45.

Just FWIW...the trigger guard piece and the magazine bottom metal piece are 2 different pieces even though it looks as if they are a single unit.

Standby for metal coating announcement shortly!!



Hi,

Crap...I had the one 3 spots above that one picked out for you since they are lined out in delivery order...some lucky guys just got bumped ahead of delivery order because you so graciously opted to be lower on delivery list, hahahaha


Sincerely,
Theis
I keep looking for mine, but it only shows up in my dreams. Sigh...

I’ll never say never, just have to say not right now. Budget says I’m a dickhead for wanting. Hey, ya gotta dream. :cool:
 

brianf

Private
Belligerents
Apr 8, 2010
1,927
1,826
219
42
NY
@lash

Couple bucks a day and comb through the crap in the back of the safe for the PX.

It’s prob closer than you think.
 
  • Like
Reactions: lash

Luvman

Full Member
Belligerents
Mar 17, 2003
1,017
284
189
Northern KY
I keep looking for mine, but it only shows up in my dreams. Sigh...

I’ll never say never, just have to say not right now. Budget says I’m a dickhead for wanting. Hey, ya gotta dream. :cool:
I was in the same boat when the AI AT was announced. Now I have one.

I’m now wanting a rifle in .300 PRC and I’ve been watching this thread hoping my budget doesn’t say I’m crazy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: lash

lash

Swamp Rat
Belligerents
Sep 28, 2012
5,160
4,067
219
60
Central Florida
@lash

Couple bucks a day and comb through the crap in the back of the safe for the PX.

It’s prob closer than you think.
I rarely sell what’s in the safe and often regret it a bit, but am considering it just the same. Dammit man! I used to consider myself a sane man... :cool:
 

brianf

Private
Belligerents
Apr 8, 2010
1,927
1,826
219
42
NY
Same here I never sold anything.

I’d poke fun...how could you sell a rifle etc.

Then I noticed the equipment I was buying was 10 fold better than the old shit I had before.

Never shot the old stuff and when I did...it wasn’t that “hot” anyway.

Kept a few that are sentimental but other than that...out with the old in with the new.

Ymmv
 

lash

Swamp Rat
Belligerents
Sep 28, 2012
5,160
4,067
219
60
Central Florida
Same here I never sold anything.

I’d poke fun...how could you sell a rifle etc.

Then I noticed the equipment I was buying was 10 fold better than the old shit I had before.

Never shot the old stuff and when I did...it wasn’t that “hot” anyway.

Kept a few that are sentimental but other than that...out with the old in with the new.

Ymmv
You and your damn logic.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Steel head

THEIS

Hi, Sincerely
Commercial Supporter
Belligerents
Nov 27, 2017
4,177
11,554
119
Enon Louisiana
hoplitearms.com
Hi,

UPDATE:
After countless weeks of researching and testing various metal coatings.....
I am personally pleased to announce that the Hoplite Arms receiver and bolt assembly will utilize Birdsong Black T or Green T coatings.
I am also excited to announce that Hoplite Arms is in final stages of securing our license to bring this coating process in-house for our use.

Sincerely,
Theis
 
Last edited:

lash

Swamp Rat
Belligerents
Sep 28, 2012
5,160
4,067
219
60
Central Florida
Hi,

UPDATE:
After countless weeks of researching and testing various metal coatings.....
I am personally pleased to announce that the Hoplite Arms receiver and bolt assembly will utilize Birdsong Black T or Green T coatings.
I am also excited to announce that Hoplite Arms is in final stages of securing our license to bring this coating process in-house for our use.

Sincerely,
Theis
Dayum!

This is getting serious. Can I interest you in a trade? Maybe some swamp land in Florida? I don't exactly own it, but, um, we could work something out? :sneaky::cool:
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Steel head

Mike Casselton

Trunk Monkey
Belligerents
Nov 25, 2007
3,988
5,220
219
Lithia, FL
Dayum!

This is getting serious. Can I interest you in a trade? Maybe some swamp land in Florida? I don't exactly own it, but, um, we could work something out? :sneaky::cool:
Actually,,,,
You do own it. The Green Swamp is 50,000 acres and its public land. Therefore both you and I own it.
You can fence off your acre and mine and use it for trade fodder with @THEIS

Word has it, he's wanting to buy some land here, but the housing isn't close enough to the nearest Wally World and Publix.
 

Middle Man

Fusilier Monger
Belligerents
Oct 15, 2012
120
63
34
44
AL
Birdsong Black T is an awesome coating. I had a 1911 tuned up, worked over, and coated inside and out over 15 years ago. It was my primary competition pistol for multiple years of IDPA and USPSA (Limited 10). The finish looks great today, even after much abuse and riding in kydex holsters.
 
  • Like
Reactions: kthomas

THEIS

Hi, Sincerely
Commercial Supporter
Belligerents
Nov 27, 2017
4,177
11,554
119
Enon Louisiana
hoplitearms.com
... It's too legit to quit.

Hi,

In Mid 40s?, lol....now that song is stuck in my head....Great!!

Dayum!

This is getting serious. Can I interest you in a trade?
Hi,

You did not think that I was going to settle for some easy bake oven type of coating right, hahaha...
Now onto that trade.....
Corbon Hydro Press
4 Door Ambulance converted into Range vehicle
Sterna/Vector or Sterna/JIM combo units.


Birdsong Black T is an awesome coating. I had a 1911 tuned up, worked over, and coated inside and out over 15 years ago. It was my primary competition pistol for multiple years of IDPA and USPSA (Limited 10). The finish looks great today, even after much abuse and riding in kydex holsters.
Hi,

That is awesome.....kydex is almost like the kryptonite to a firearm coating. Not many rifle uses that can equal the coating abuse of competition pistols.

Sincerely,
Theis
 
  • Like
Reactions: lash

Abrakadabra338

Not so secret agent
Minuteman
Jul 30, 2019
21
12
6
The Northern frontier
Could be a stupid question., but I’ll take the risk anyway (There are no stupid questions, only stupid people. I could very well turn out to be one!). How does Birdsong differ from the other coatings that mass producers of firearms utilize? Educate me, make me look stupid, please 😜
 

clcustom1911

Non Sibi Sed Patriae
Belligerents
Oct 23, 2017
2,764
3,611
119
Southern Kommiefornia
Hi,

Nice and shiny in the raw bolt.......

Tipping my hat to @clcustom1911 with this picture because he is mourning the accidental death of his Tikka bolt that jumped off the work bench....
Here's to you pal, haha

Sincerely,
Theis

View attachment 7205815
You, my good Sir, are an asshole.





Well played indeed.
 

THEIS

Hi, Sincerely
Commercial Supporter
Belligerents
Nov 27, 2017
4,177
11,554
119
Enon Louisiana
hoplitearms.com
@THEIS - what’s the chances of getting one to Australia?
Hi,

Luckily I am knowledgeable in all things ITAR (Exportation of anything on USML Sec 121 List).
Hoplite Arms has an entire department that handles nothing but DDTC and Commerce exportation's.

Do you have a dealer that can handle the importation and documents required or do you need me to find one?

Sincerely,
Theis
 

Powdermonkey4

Private
Belligerents
Apr 24, 2017
54
11
12
Hi,

Luckily I am knowledgeable in all things ITAR (Exportation of anything on USML Sec 121 List).
Hoplite Arms has an entire department that handles nothing but DDTC and Commerce exportation's.

Do you have a dealer that can handle the importation and documents required or do you need me to find one?

Sincerely,
Theis
Sent you a PM
Matt
 

Steel head

Stylish Ninja
Belligerents
Aug 3, 2014
3,831
3,127
219
Washington
Hi,

"Now", lolol....I have replaced 2 entry doors and a tile walkway this week alone; from pacing back and forth, haha.

North Korean soldier has nothing on my sentry pacing skills after this week.

Sincerely,
Theis
Your fed more than they are hopefully.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: THEIS

ELR researcher

Sergeant
Belligerents
Hi,

That really is a plan but I cannot say for certain that we can get the work finished for that; hoping to in worse case scenario have one that maybe isn't bedded or such sitting in case behind the scenes for you to put your hands on.

Sincerely,
Theis
Given the bits and pieces you have shown, and noting that SHOT (the Pop-Up Preview) is 33 days off , its unclear (to me) why there is a question about being able to display a finished KMW-configuration exemplar? Please advise: (1) the "firm" plan for what will be on display at the show, (2) the current best estimate for shipping first units to customers, and (3) the pricing (or the "plan" date for releasing pricing). Thanks.