Help with first SBR build

Jigstick

Gunny Sergeant
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surely some of you guys have built SBRs. And I could use some help. First with eFile of my Form 1 via my trust.

Is this how the filing should go?

Get my 2x2 photos taken
Fill out my Form 5320.23 x 2
Log into eFile
Complete the Form 1 appropriately
Upload my scanned copy of a Form 5320.23
Upload my Trust
Pay and hit submit

Wait for the ATF to mail me finger print cards
Fingerprint myself
Drop off a copy of my Form 1, Form 5320.23, finger prints to my local chief of police


Do I mail a copy of my fingerprints to the ATF? Little confused on this part here.



I plan on building out on a Seekins billet lower and upper than I currently have. 11.5in barrel. Run my DeadArm Sandman S on it. Im open to suggestions on barrel makers and BCGs. I have a chrome Young Manufacturing BCG laying around.
 

Jlknights61

Sergeant of the Hide
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If memory serves, you complete all forms including 5320.23 on the e form site. Upload passport photo to efile application. I used a passport photo app on my phone to take the picture. When you submit you will receive an email with the form to mail your fingerprint cards in with. Simply print the form and mail it with your cards.
 

Jlknights61

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There is a great step by step walk though on reddit that I used the first time I submitted an eform. First submission went through with no errors and was approved like 24 days later. I sent my prints fedex overnight and had fedex alert me when they were delivered. I would suggest this just for peace of mind that the atf did receive them and you have a date.

Also the completed pdf you receive when submitted states at the bottom of the page whether it is atf copy or Cleo copy. Simply print the Cleo copy pages and mail to your Cleo.
 

Jigstick

Gunny Sergeant
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Jul 21, 2017
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With such short dwell time on a 10.5in 233 upper shoulder I plan on using an enhanced BCG and H2 plug? Already have an SLR adjustable gas block on hand. Planning on the following

Seekins billet upper and lower
Daniel Defense 10.5in barrel
SLR adjustable gas block
LMT enhances bolt carrier
LWRC UCIW stock set
Slash UCIW spring
H2 buffer
BCM or Seekins handguard
DeadAir Sandman S suppressor
Elcan Spectre
 

FUNCTIONAL

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I have a 10.3" with a .070 gas port (should be same as your DD barrel if its new) and run a melonited brownells bcg and H3 buffer with JP spring shooting 90% of the time suppressed. Works excellent and have gotten multiple people commenting on how soft it shoots. In all honesty I could probably have gotten away with .068 gas port if I knew what I know now. Your adj gas block will help with this.

In short...I dont believe you need any fancy bolt carrier. Get as little gas going back to the system as possible with the H2 and it will be a nice build. Might want to pick up an H2 and H3 and shoot a few hundred rounds with each configuration and see what you like.
 

Jigstick

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Who makes custom 10.5in barrels? Doesn’t look like White Oak makes a 10.5in with a carbine length gas system?

Daniel Defense, Rock Creek, and Ballistic Advantage keeling coming up in my barrel search. And obviously Noveske
 

FUNCTIONAL

Dirty Civilian
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Who makes custom 10.5in barrels? Doesn’t look like White Oak makes a 10.5in with a carbine length gas system?

Daniel Defense, Rock Creek, and Ballistic Advantage keeling coming up in my barrel search. And obviously Noveske
Could buy a Colt/LMT/etc 14.5/16" barrel, send it to ADCO and have them chop and properly size the gas port to either your spec or their experience based on your planned use.
 
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stevieb92

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I don't think it was mentioned, but just go to the ATF NFA website and submit a request for 50 finger print cards. It's free and you will receive them in about a week.
 

Crewdog135

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Who makes custom 10.5in barrels? Doesn’t look like White Oak makes a 10.5in with a carbine length gas system?

Daniel Defense, Rock Creek, and Ballistic Advantage keeling coming up in my barrel search. And obviously Noveske
I’m in the process of building a 10.5 pistol. I went with a Seekins barrel ordered from Midway when they were having some sale or other. Haven’t put it together yet, so I can’t say for sure how it shoot (looks nice though), but another option to look at.
 

USMC_JA

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I've got 7.5's, 10.5', and 11.5. Unless the goal is simply to go as short as possible, suggest you take a close look at 11.5 inch barrels and their associated ballistics.

Also, as others have stated, do NOT ignore your gas port. It will make a significant difference in your shooting experience.
 

Jigstick

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Yeah I hear ya. I have an intermediate length AR with custom gas port that took a bit to tune. What’s a reasonable gas port size for a 10.5in barrel? .08? .78?
 

USMC_JA

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Yeah I hear ya. I have an intermediate length AR with custom gas port that took a bit to tune. What’s a reasonable gas port size for a 10.5in barrel? .08? .78?
.070 - .71 IMO.

IIRC, .070 is what the mil uses in their 10.3 barrels and is designed for 556 pressure. Weak .223 may, or may not, work reliably depending upon the buffer you use. The AGB will give you some wiggle room here if you go larger. Zero reason to go above .78 though.
 

Jigstick

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Which barrel manufacturers post their port hole specs? I’m having trouble finding that info. Right now I’m considering a Daniel Defense barrel. Finding a quality 10.5in barrel with a reasonable gas port size is tough
 

USMC_JA

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Which barrel manufacturers post their port hole specs? I’m having trouble finding that info. Right now I’m considering a Daniel Defense barrel. Finding a quality 10.5in barrel with a reasonable gas port size is tough
In most instances, you have to call/email and ask. Or do some internet research.

I would also STRONGLY recommend you consider Centurion Arms. They are putting out criminally underrated stuff. And if you email or call them, Corrie (owner's wife) will answer all your questions. She has been very, very helpful to me in the past with various purchases.
 

slothlacrosse

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Could buy a Colt/LMT/etc 14.5/16" barrel, send it to ADCO and have them chop and properly size the gas port to either your spec or their experience based on your planned use.
I've had ADCO do the barrel work on 3 different SBR's and they've all functioned flawlessly.
 

Jigstick

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So I buy a Krieger blank and send it to ADCO to get chopped, chambered, profiled, etc?
 

KevinU

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Try an 11.5 with carbine +1 gas system.
I have a 11.5 carbine +1 .063 port and a 12.5" midlength .065 port on the way from CLE. Both for 100% suppressed. Hope I went small enough on the port sizes!! Would like to run a fixed block. Will shoot full pressure 77smk loads through both. Will be interesting to see the velocity difference between the two barrels. Plan on shooting the 12.5 in a 2-gun match in Raton, 400yds max.
 

RyanScott

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I have a 11.5 carbine +1 .063 port and a 12.5" midlength .065 port on the way from CLE. Both for 100% suppressed. Hope I went small enough on the port sizes!! Would like to run a fixed block. Will shoot full pressure 77smk loads through both. Will be interesting to see the velocity difference between the two barrels. Plan on shooting the 12.5 in a 2-gun match in Raton, 400yds max.
Probably could have gone a little smaller but I’d like to hear your results.
 

Jigstick

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With 10.5, I'm running a CHF, CL'ed barrel. Are you trying to build a super mini-recce?
Not really. I’m trying to build a robust short carbine that I can abuse at tactical carbine courses / compact package that’s easy to maneuver with inside buildings / vehicles. More of a hardcore “battle” type of shorty
 

Jigstick

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I already have a Seekins billet upper and lower. Plus I like the challenge of building it and pride in shooting something I made.
 

USMC_JA

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Not really. I’m trying to build a robust short carbine that I can abuse at tactical carbine courses / compact package that’s easy to maneuver with inside buildings / vehicles. More of a hardcore “battle” type of shorty
Then you don't want a match barrel. That's the wrong tool for your job. You want a CHF CL'ed barrel.

Centurion Arms
Hodge
DD
FN
Noveske
BCM

Colt 11.5 FBI H barrels, of which I have one that is dimpled, are very hardy and accurate. They are button barrels though.

My Noveske 10.5 switchblock CHF barrel is a work horse. I can abuse her and she simply laughs at me and asks for more.
 

slothlacrosse

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Then you don't want a match barrel. That's the wrong tool for your job. You want a CHF CL'ed barrel.
Can we stop putting chrome lined barrels on a pedestal?

Buy the best quality barrel you can and shoot it. There's a 99.9% chance you will not shoot out the barrel.

And if you do shoot out the barrel, the money you'll spend on another barrel is a drop in the bucket compared to the thousands of dollars you spent on ammunition to shoot out the barrel.

Rapid fire in a non chrome lined AR15 barrel
What type of barrel should I choose?
4150 Carbon Steel vs 416-R Stainless – Which is Right for Me?
 

KevinU

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Can you get those barrels with custom gas port holes?
Compass Lake will contour, gas port a barrel however you want. FYI their barrel blanks are 27” or 26” finished length. They’ll cut a 2nd barrel from that blank for an additional $125. Get two SBR barrels, go in on it with a buddy....
 

USMC_JA

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Can we stop putting chrome lined barrels on a pedestal?

Buy the best quality barrel you can and shoot it. There's a 99.9% chance you will not shoot out the barrel.

And if you do shoot out the barrel, the money you'll spend on another barrel is a drop in the bucket compared to the thousands of dollars you spent on ammunition to shoot out the barrel.

Rapid fire in a non chrome lined AR15 barrel
What type of barrel should I choose?
4150 Carbon Steel vs 416-R Stainless – Which is Right for Me?
I don't put CL'ed barrels on a pedestal. I am simply advocating for the right tool for the job. And I will stand by my comments that a CHF CL'ed barrel is a more appropriate choice for hard use than a match grade SS barrel, i.e. a krieger.
 

Jigstick

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So I think I’m going to run a Noveske Switchblock under a DD or Bravo Company mlok rail...machine out the rail to make room for it.

my question is should I still run an adjustable carrier as well? Leaning towards a LMT carrier and a JP bolt. The gun needs to run suppressed and non suppressed, and having the ability to hit the switchblock when going back and forth seems like a good idea.
 

slothlacrosse

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So I think I’m going to run a Noveske Switchblock under a DD or Bravo Company mlok rail...machine out the rail to make room for it.
Why run a switchblock that may or may not work with your suppressor/ammo/buffer/spring?

Most AGB's give you 15-20 different settings.

If you're just wanting the convenience of having a suppressed and unsuppressed setting, I guess a switchblock makes sense. Maybe an adjustable BCG makes sense in that case.
 

Jigstick

Gunny Sergeant
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Not interested in a KAC but thanks for the recommendation. Should have my lower back from engraving any day now. Ordered a Noveske 10.5in switchblock barrel
 
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Docsherm

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So I think I’m going to run a Noveske Switchblock under a DD or Bravo Company mlok rail...machine out the rail to make room for it.

my question is should I still run an adjustable carrier as well? Leaning towards a LMT carrier and a JP bolt. The gun needs to run suppressed and non suppressed, and having the ability to hit the switchblock when going back and forth seems like a good idea.
Are you going to cut the rail to use the SwitchBlock? I see no reason to use an Adjustable BCG also. The LMT Carrier will work just fine.

What you need to do is work in the buffer weight that works the best. After that you really don't need to turn the SwitchBlock to get it to run properly. It does make it shoot softer and it is a bit quieter. But mine run just fine in either the open or suppressed position wkth a can.
 

Jigstick

Gunny Sergeant
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Yeah I plan on using a mill to machine out the BCM Mlok handguard to make room for the switch block. An adjustable carrier would let me tweak the gas pressure even more but I don’t want to over complicate things.

honestly I’m wondering if I could get it tuned soft and reliably with the Switchblock, buffer, spring, and a full auto M16 chrome Young Manufacturing BCG. I have one of their ultralite national match carriers in my suppressed RECCE and dam does it clean up easy
 

Docsherm

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Yeah I plan on using a mill to machine out the BCM Mlok handguard to make room for the switch block. An adjustable carrier would let me tweak the gas pressure even more but I don’t want to over complicate things.

honestly I’m wondering if I could get it tuned soft and reliably with the Switchblock, buffer, spring, and a full auto M16 chrome Young Manufacturing BCG. I have one of their ultralite national match carriers in my suppressed RECCE and dam does it clean up easy
That should work. Do you plan on a laser of any kimd on the rail? If so i would not use the BCM rail as the nut is very small and the rail has a crap ton of flex. I watched a friend with one manually flex the rail to change the laser impact about 3 nches at 50 yards.


As long as it is put together properly you should be able to get what you want without the adjustable BCG. I too like the Younf BCG a lot.
 

USMC_JA

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Love my 10.5 Noveske Switchblock. Flawless over well over a thousand rounds. And much, much, much prefer the simplistic nature of the system vice infinitely variable AGBs. They each have their purpose. But for a hard use gun, the switchblock flat works, is intuitive, and uber-reliable. [I've broken two AGBs.]
 

shoot4fun

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I did a SBR on one of my existing AR rifle lowers and just picked up a couple SB uppers (one 300BLK and the other 5,56).
The 5.56 version suppressed is one helluva prairie dog "window" gun, especially with the can on.
Honestly, if I had it to do over, I might have foregone the F1 and just purchased a AR pistol version. Lots of cool toys out there in those.
Really got the hots for a Banshee 9MM.