Greatest semi-auto battle rifle in history..

Apr 17, 2010
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Sweet. Thx for your service sir, may I ask what outfit/branch/etc you were in? Feel free to post some pics if ya have any, they'd be much appreciated!
HEY!....youse guys are 'sposed to be tal.kin' bout "Battle Rifles".....he he.:cool::devilish::cool:
Coyote. US Army, 525th MI Grp., II Corps, Binh Dinh Prov., 68-69-70. Sorry no pics.

Sandwarrior. My apologies if you felt I was diverting the thread. I was simply attempting to answer Soulezoo's question about what SMG his brother may have carried. Hopefully his brother is still with us and he can help him clarify what it may have been. My only possible contribution to the thread as regards "battle rifles" is in regard to the M-14 with a full auto option. My team had one. I loaded some magazines and took it one day to give it a run. I found it to be completely uncontrollable on full auto. I was not trained on it but it went back in one of two wall lockers that were full of shit we had no use for.
 

sandwarrior

Gunny Sergeant
Apr 21, 2007
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in yooperland
Coyote. US Army, 525th MI Grp., II Corps, Binh Dinh Prov., 68-69-70. Sorry no pics.

Sandwarrior. My apologies if you felt I was diverting the thread. I was simply attempting to answer Soulezoo's question about what SMG his brother may have carried. Hopefully his brother is still with us and he can help him clarify what it may have been. My only possible contribution to the thread as regards "battle rifles" is in regard to the M-14 with a full auto option. My team had one. I loaded some magazines and took it one day to give it a run. I found it to be completely uncontrollable on full auto. I was not trained on it but it went back in one of two wall lockers that were full of shit we had no use for.
No apologies needed. I was joking.:cool:
 

sandwarrior

Gunny Sergeant
Apr 21, 2007
4,507
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in yooperland
Last time I read it, German engineers already had the basic Cetme design mid war then fled to Spain after the war and kept working on it. The Spanish adopted it and the design eventually came full circle and was adopted in its actual country of origin.
To add to this, the German engineers who had pretty much already had the CETME completed, as an advanced STG44/45 didn't really flee to Spain as much as there just wasn't any work for them in Germany. Spain wanted to upgrade it's weaponry to that of the rest of the modern world and thus hired them down in Spain. There, they finalized the CETME as Spain would adopt it.

Interesting thing is that although the rifle was first developed in 7.92x33 (8mm Kurz) those engineers were thinking of adopting the 7.92x40 with the AL core bullet. While the German engineers weren't big on it, the Spanish wanted to retain something in 7mm. At the time, the .280 British was gaining favor. While all that was being discussed and progress halted, the U.S. came up with the 7.62x51 and politically mandated everyone wanting to belong to NATO must have it. (Read: shoved it up everyone's ass, then backed out on the FN deal). As this came about, most countries wanted to ally with us and started with the 7.62 in the FN-FAL. FWIW, the .300 Savage is the case the 7.62 is based on.

The Venezuelans wanted something in 7mm too as they liked the 7mmx57 they had in their bolt guns and FN-49's. When they adopted the FN-FAL, it was in 7x49mm (Liviano). The round was close to a .300 Savage necked down to 7mm. The .300 Savage necked down was also called the 7mm International here. Note: There is also a 7mm International Rimmed which is different. Neither got as far as SAAMI certification. , Although, I'm not sure that while SAAMI existed back int he 1950's, sporting compaines who founded it, wanted something different that they didn't have proprietary rights to. In 1957, the Venzuelans dropped the 7x49 in favor of joining the "U.S. Club" and adopted the 7.62. ( Of course, helping to sponsor the coup helped our chances of shoving the 7.62 up their asses too!)

All this said, while the FN was adopted by over 100 countries, the G-3/CETME was adopted by more than 70. Making it the second most formally adopted international rifle. Must be a reason. I also found the G3 (I shot them in Germany) didn't kick all that bad. Certainly no worse, than an M14. I've shot FAL's too and the recoil wasn't all that different to me. It punches like any .308 semi-auto (never fired full auto) then slams shut. If you want to get technical it only has two impulses vs. the three of the FAL. Neither was bad, IMO, and the M14 wasn't any worse. They kicked less than my .308 bolt gun.

As to "battle rifle" vs. "assault rifle" it really doesn't matter. The U.S. has adopted the M16 as the "Standard Service Rifle". Which means if you are going to battle, you will do battle with it, not an old "battle rifle". It's simply a progression of modern arms. It's like saying the M1 Garand wasn't a battle rifle, because it was semi-auto and everyone else had bolt guns. The fact that Hitler named the STG 44 the SturmGewehr doesn't make it a class all by it's own. It's just his propaganda tool to cover his fuck-up in not adopting it. Note: He thought they needed a bigger round too. The history of adoption of the M16 in the U.S. didn't follow the same route as the STG44. As noted it was initially meant to replace the M1 carbine. Then Gen LeMay got shown how much damage it could do to a watermelon. then SF got it through Thailand for VN. Suddenly, it was the main rifle. Fully transferred into our service rifle starting in 1967. So, it's our "battle rifle" now.
 
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Likes: TonyTheTiger
Apr 13, 2006
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I used to collect 308 MBRs. Sold most of them to fund a growing NVG addiction at one point. Guess I voted by what I kept- a Crazy Horse M14 variant and a SCAR17. The SCAR gets all the use though unless I'm feeling nostalgic....
 
Likes: Cold Steel

Jory45acp

New Hide Member
Mar 10, 2018
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Not counting the more modern battle rifles and considering only rifles used pre 60's, my vote would be the M1A. Classic, proven, reliable and effective.
 
Oct 21, 2005
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This thread is exactly what I thought it would be before I clicked on it.

The M14 is the greatest killing implement that was ever devised, except when you actually start looking at it. It was a great M1 Garand PIP when the world had moved on. Nothing more. It didn’t last long for a reason. It wasn’t that reliable. It wasn’t that accurate (when the black rifles first showed up to high power matches, they cleaned the clocks of every M14/M1A on the line, and continue to do so). If you’ve never saw an M14 choke, you never watched them fired very much. They were the shortest serving service rifle for a reason - they were obsolete before they were accepted into service. They’re emotionally a great rifle more than technically. They would have kicked ass in WW2 and Korea, but it wasn’t there.

The FAL served the longest and most of what most people now call “battle rifles” - but it’s not perfect. It was right for the time if you had to be dragged screaming into the era of assault rifles (which the west had to be thanks to the US - I’m not saying they’re wrong - they were just conservative like always). It’s not super accurate. It’s less reliable than current service rifles due to design. The Germans even wanted it, but had to settle with the G3. Again, in WW2, the FAL would have owned. But it wasn’t there.

My opinion on the question is no doubt the M1. It was the right rifle at the right time. Not as perfect as some say, but it sure won a lot of battles and worked well. That’s why the US tried to hang onto it too long - it was effective and universally loved by the troops.

Add in the intermediate cartridge thing, and you end up with what we have today still on either side. The AK or M16/M4 pattern. Take your pick.
 

Ledzep

Chancellor
Jun 9, 2009
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I've got a thing for HK53's. Probably stems from being issued an MP5.

non-intermediate caliber.. AR10 platform. Buying today; the DPMS/JP pattern.
 
Dec 13, 2011
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I didn't realize there was so much difference in opinion on the semantics, I always figured it was fairly widely accepted that battle rifles are (now mostly obsolete though apparently Delta has used the SR25 EMC quite recently) semi-auto/select fire(though not usually usable in FA) rifles chambered in "full power rifle rounds" ie .308 Win, .30-06, 8x57, 7x57, etc. or more specifically, non-intermediate cartridge chambered semi auto rifles. JMO but proclaiming AR's and AK's as the "best battle rifles in history".. I could say the same thing about the AR being the best bolt action battle rifle in history since we got stuff like this:
https://pof-usa.com/firearms/revolt/

After all its a manual operated bolt action right? Its a AR platform which was/is used in battle, and its a rifle.. so there ya go - all requirements satisfied.

Anywho - @sandwarrior I assume you meant the 7.92x41 CETME round..? Seems like it would've been a neat round. Kinda like a vintage version of the 6.5 Grendel concept:

Ill be curious to see how powerful the new 6.5 service cartridge is that the .mil is supposedly moving to. Because anything much bigger/more powerful than 5.56, 6.5 Grendel, etc or than will fit in AR15 size and weight weapon/receiver will likely hamper CQB performance and possibly be a worse compromise than just having multiple different weapons/cal's for different roles as we currently do. Admittedly though stuff like the SCAR 17 and the newer SR25 carbines appear to be busting down that old barrier so to speak.

I'd be curious to see some of the weapons that the tip of the spear is currently using, rumors going around they picked up the little SIG Rattl'r for low profile, plain clothes type jobs. Apparently the little 4.6x30 of the MP7 wasn't favored by a lot of the members due to such little power, LV said the guys had come to the general consensus/requirement to dump half a mag into targets to drop them(if a head shots out the question). Super controllable little PDW, but sounds like you're gonna burn through ammo with it.
 
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Dec 13, 2011
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Seeing as how its my own thread, I'm cool with it being derailed at this point....it was already derailed quite early due to semantics. So feel free to discuss what you wish! I however am going to take a certain idea I had into a new thread...
 
Oct 15, 2018
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I have been thinking about this very question for a long time, which weapon do I build which will give me reliable service, be very accurate, and be something rarely seen. I guess I'm looking for a unique weapon, that being an XM25 sniper weapon used in Desert Storm, Panama and Afghanistan. It has the look of a real bad ass, coupled with excellent accuracy and is completely reliable in all climates. It is a variation of the M14 which is the greatest battle rifle ever devised, in my opinion.

Now if I can just find the right parts to get this thing off the ground, XM25 parts are hard to find.
 
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