Forster Micrometer Seating Die Issue

Jun 13, 2008
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#51
Good question.

But then, with very light tension (0.001" or less), bullets can also be seen to MOVE after seating, due to the air pressure in the casing, and low holding force.

I guess if they all move the same, then it could be okay, but given the tolerances of the system, it is almost certain that they will not. Unless you are lathe-turning the internals of all your casings.

Try the dry lube, but unless you are sorting into lots by seating force with, say, a K&M press, I doubt you will be able to see through the haze.
 
Likes: Milo 2.5
Aug 7, 2014
819
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Gillette, WY
#53
1)

But it might be notable that Emil Praslick and the AMU are basically of the opinion that the ONLY verifiable and reproducible neck condition is CLEAN. "Clean" = nothing except metal.
Not about to question these guys, I dry tumble so carbon is left in my necks. I just think it would be tough to duplicate the surface of new brass unless cleaning new brass the way it will be subsequently cleaned. SS pins, even though removing carbon is still polishing brass, where a decent sonic can remove(I don't have the correct term) everything, to a rough surface< bad juju
 
Nov 1, 2017
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#54
I went home after reading all this advice and some online research to try some of the methods I had read on here. I measured all my bullets and they were all within .0005 of each other so very minimal. I also took my micrometer die and set the stem all the way up and true zeroed my micrometer adjustment wheel, then using the stem I tried to set my bullets to where they make first contact with the lands of my rifle 3.300" from Bullet Base to Ogive. I loaded 10 rounds and was very careful to look for extra tension on the press handle. I had 3 rounds come out .0015 shorter ( handle took very little force to cam over) and I had 3 come out .007 long *(these were really tight when lowering the handle and to the cam over) 2 came out just a little long .0015 or so (Tension was similar to the 2 that came out even) and 2 came out even. I am at a loss, I have a friend that reloads with this press with no issue next time he comes to town I am going to have him look at it and see what he thinks.
 
Jun 13, 2008
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#55
Never had that much variation from anything in a Coax, but I do not cam over. I think it's unnecessary, esPECIALLY with a Coax that can double as a tin can crusher.

Did I ever tell you the story about how my Coax destroyed an RCBS 6.5 Jap die? Yeah well, the skinny of it is that the press never knew the difference. Lots of leverage.

Seat the bullet to the point that the press. stops. moving. downward. NO further.

I have better consistency with arbor dies, but you'd expect that. You also expect that they are slow as shit to use.

-Nate
 
Likes: SL61
Nov 1, 2017
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#56
Never had that much variation from anything in a Coax, but I do not cam over. I think it's unnecessary, esPECIALLY with a Coax that can double as a tin can crusher.

Did I ever tell you the story about how my Coax destroyed an RCBS 6.5 Jap die? Yeah well, the skinny of it is that the press never knew the difference. Lots of leverage.

Seat the bullet to the point that the press. stops. moving. downward. NO further.

I have better consistency with arbor dies, but you'd expect that. You also expect that they are slow as shit to use.

-Nate
This confuses me if the press stops moving I dont understand how it changes rather you cam over or not?
 
Jun 13, 2008
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#57
"Camming over" is surely moving SOMETHING...

What you are looking for is the point where basically the arm first stops on the downward travel, and you have to force it to go further.
 
Likes: SL61
Nov 1, 2017
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#58
"Camming over" is surely moving SOMETHING...

What you are looking for is the point where basically the arm first stops on the downward travel, and you have to force it to go further.
Alright I wll look into this and see if it works for me I appreciate the help.
 

Blowby

Sergeant
Jan 23, 2013
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28
Boulder County, CO
#59
I went home after reading all this advice and some online research to try some of the methods I had read on here. I measured all my bullets and they were all within .0005 of each other so very minimal. I also took my micrometer die and set the stem all the way up and true zeroed my micrometer adjustment wheel, then using the stem I tried to set my bullets to where they make first contact with the lands of my rifle 3.300" from Bullet Base to Ogive. I loaded 10 rounds and was very careful to look for extra tension on the press handle. I had 3 rounds come out .0015 shorter ( handle took very little force to cam over) and I had 3 come out .007 long *(these were really tight when lowering the handle and to the cam over) 2 came out just a little long .0015 or so (Tension was similar to the 2 that came out even) and 2 came out even. I am at a loss, I have a friend that reloads with this press with no issue next time he comes to town I am going to have him look at it and see what he thinks.
I have been struggling with this (not as bad +-.002) for a long while and it showed in my ES/SD numbers as well.

I accidently found a solution last month and the feel on seating pressures and depth seem real consistent now. I wasn't able to shoot until last weekend and I had an SD of 2.4 on five shots. Holy shit batman!!

OK I just thought it was a fluke so I kept shooting all day until my last 5 rounds. Hummm ........ temps were 63 in the morning and 80 in the afternoon. Decided to put the Magnetospeed back on for the last 5 shots and had an SD of 4.5 which is higher but still less than 1/2 of my best ever.

SD-2.4.jpg

SD-4.5.jpg

So what did I do to get this magical result? Still need to duplicate this over and over to confirm this claim.





I added Nu-Finish to a fresh batch of tumbling media, that's all.



Instead of One-Shot Media Polish
 
Nov 1, 2017
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#60
I have been struggling with this (not as bad +-.002) for a long while and it showed in my ES/SD numbers as well.

I accidently found a solution last month and the feel on seating pressures and depth seem real consistent now. I wasn't able to shoot until last weekend and I had an SD of 2.4 on five shots. Holy shit batman!!

OK I just thought it was a fluke so I kept shooting all day until my last 5 rounds. Hummm ........ temps were 63 in the morning and 80 in the afternoon. Decided to put the Magnetospeed back on for the last 5 shots and had an SD of 4.5 which is higher but still less than 1/2 of my best ever.

View attachment 6919741

View attachment 6919742

So what did I do to get this magical result? Still need to duplicate this over and over to confirm this claim.





I added Nu-Finish to a fresh batch of tumbling media, that's all.



Instead of One-Shot Media Polish
That is an amazing SD, Currently I dont use any kind of polish in my corn cob media. I wonder if that might be something that I am doing wrong.
 

Blowby

Sergeant
Jan 23, 2013
394
75
28
Boulder County, CO
#61
I ran out of One-Shot so I looked around the garage and said what the hell....dumped about a tablespoon of Nu-Finish in the media because I wanted to finish the batch.

BTW I do follow the above process. Also using Forster dies - FL sizer (honed neck - minimal neck sizing), next stage Neck Bushing Die -.001 from target ID, 3rd stage Carbide mandrel to size (.0025) neck tension.
 
Last edited:
Aug 7, 2014
819
95
28
Gillette, WY
#63
I went home after reading all this advice and some online research to try some of the methods I had read on here. I measured all my bullets and they were all within .0005 of each other so very minimal. I also took my micrometer die and set the stem all the way up and true zeroed my micrometer adjustment wheel, then using the stem I tried to set my bullets to where they make first contact with the lands of my rifle 3.300" from Bullet Base to Ogive. I loaded 10 rounds and was very careful to look for extra tension on the press handle. I had 3 rounds come out .0015 shorter ( handle took very little force to cam over) and I had 3 come out .007 long *(these were really tight when lowering the handle and to the cam over) 2 came out just a little long .0015 or so (Tension was similar to the 2 that came out even) and 2 came out even. I am at a loss, I have a friend that reloads with this press with no issue next time he comes to town I am going to have him look at it and see what he thinks.
You about answered your own question here, your neck tension is uneven. I honestly do not get the camover thing either, the handle has stops, I bump them evenly. I have 2 coax's.
 
Nov 1, 2017
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#64
You about answered your own question here, your neck tension is uneven. I honestly do not get the camover thing either, the handle has stops, I bump them evenly. I have 2 coax's.
That's kinda what I was thinking it has to be the neck tension since when I am trying I can feel the obvious force difference. So after I shoot these and resize I will check all the measurements again and see where that puts me.
 
Aug 7, 2014
819
95
28
Gillette, WY
#65
You can always cull seated rds that feel diff, I put them on the right side of my ammo box to shoot first. If you're starting at 1000 yrds, grab from the consistent lot. Brass is not perfect, maybe an annealing machine is in your future, and I go that route 25 times faster than a turning kit.
 
Nov 1, 2017
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#66
You can always cull seated rds that feel diff, I put them on the right side of my ammo box to shoot first. If you're starting at 1000 yrds, grab from the consistent lot. Brass is not perfect, maybe an annealing machine is in your future, and I go that route 25 times faster than a turning kit.
I am thinking you are prolly right annealing would be next. Because all the diameters are the same which means it has to be the tensile strength of the brass due to sizing, and sizing was a issue before we were sizing way brass about .007 to much and then letting the brass expand to much I have all these errors corrected now but I may be still fighting the few sizes that we did that.
 
Likes: Milo 2.5
Nov 1, 2017
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#67
You can always cull seated rds that feel diff, I put them on the right side of my ammo box to shoot first. If you're starting at 1000 yrds, grab from the consistent lot. Brass is not perfect, maybe an annealing machine is in your future, and I go that route 25 times faster than a turning kit.
So for now is it best to seat all the bullets to the same depth or to leave them where they land?
 
Nov 1, 2017
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#68
I found out Forster sells a kit with 3 brushes that dry lube the inside of the case I wonder if thats something that might help seating consistency?
 

ruebarb

Sergeant of the Hide
Feb 7, 2018
203
61
28
Littleton, MA
#69
I have been struggling with this (not as bad +-.002) for a long while and it showed in my ES/SD numbers as well.

I accidently found a solution last month and the feel on seating pressures and depth seem real consistent now. I wasn't able to shoot until last weekend and I had an SD of 2.4 on five shots. Holy shit batman!!

OK I just thought it was a fluke so I kept shooting all day until my last 5 rounds. Hummm ........ temps were 63 in the morning and 80 in the afternoon. Decided to put the Magnetospeed back on for the last 5 shots and had an SD of 4.5 which is higher but still less than 1/2 of my best ever.

View attachment 6919741

View attachment 6919742

So what did I do to get this magical result? Still need to duplicate this over and over to confirm this claim.





I added Nu-Finish to a fresh batch of tumbling media, that's all.



Instead of One-Shot Media Polish
Nu Finish is all have ever used, interesting observations on the SD. This reloading Master I know, mentioned to use it, he also mentioned the dry tumble neck tension vs wet tumble. I guess I got good advice.
 
Likes: Milo 2.5
Aug 7, 2014
819
95
28
Gillette, WY
#70
So for now is it best to seat all the bullets to the same depth or to leave them where they land?
I guess that is your call based on your goals, I myself am not adjusting my die. I set my die for depth, do not always even measure, I'm the only one handling them so it is not an issue. Like I said earlier on, seat depth is way more critical on a newer throat and during initial load development when striving for the best is crucial. Find someone to anneal your brass for you, guy on here has a service, reasonable, see if it makes a difference, go from there. Invest in a die where you can control your neck tension, it's rare I measure for tension today, I know the feeling I want when seating a bullet. To me, there are 2 types of neck tension, measured< which can really have some discrepancies, based on hardness(springback etc..), and felt tension when seating. I use the latter. I really want one of those hydraulic seaters that measure force when seating, but a whole diff die system is needed and not sold I need it.
 
Nov 1, 2017
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#71
I guess that is your call based on your goals, I myself am not adjusting my die. I set my die for depth, do not always even measure, I'm the only one handling them so it is not an issue. Like I said earlier on, seat depth is way more critical on a newer throat and during initial load development when striving for the best is crucial. Find someone to anneal your brass for you, guy on here has a service, reasonable, see if it makes a difference, go from there. Invest in a die where you can control your neck tension, it's rare I measure for tension today, I know the feeling I want when seating a bullet. To me, there are 2 types of neck tension, measured< which can really have some discrepancies, based on hardness(springback etc..), and felt tension when seating. I use the latter. I really want one of those hydraulic seaters that measure force when seating, but a whole diff die system is needed and not sold I need it.
Well I have narrowed down my issues and I think I am slowly closing in on an answer I know for fact now the die and press are consistent because I put the die on 0 and seat the bullet and whatever it seats to and I can go down 5, 10, 15, 20 whatever and run it again and it goes down exactly that much. For some weird reason on 0 something causes some to be short and some to be long. I am going to check 25 round tomorrow if they group well at 100 yards and my SD and ES are below 8 and 15 I am going to go with this load and move on.
 

Blowby

Sergeant
Jan 23, 2013
394
75
28
Boulder County, CO
#72
I believe now that the stiction between the bullet and neck ID was causing my MV variance. Always slight carbon in the neck and now with a better lube it reduced the stiction and SD. Back in Dec. 2017 I ran a test with multiple seating depths varying in length .02 to .06 off the lands. I culled any that I could feel additional pressure seating. Best option for this theory. At the end of my testing I had 5 rounds left, one of each. So I decided to shoot this as a group. To my surprise the vertical was great at 705 yards so the grip of the bullet seemed to be more of an influence than a little long or short a few thou.

So I kept looking for the answer, 6 months later I’m where I am and will keep testing in this direction. Maybe I’m way off base, maybe an easy solution.

202DDE70-DE15-4CEE-8E32-28B2E3B2DDB0.jpeg
1FA31AB6-CD4F-4823-9026-BDBBA98F2324.jpeg
 
Nov 1, 2017
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#73
So I got some time to play around with this a little more this weekend and might have figured something out. I checked every possible variable I could think of Neck Tension, Brass Length, Bullet Base to Ogive length, the inside of the necks were all chamfered, ect. Seated 2 bullets back to back and got one that came out .015 longer (far right) than the first vs middle) it looks like the seating stem slipped further down ?
 

Attachments

Jun 13, 2008
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#74
I don't know, but good LORD that stem is rotting your bullets. You need to get that shit checked out, bro. Git some antibiotics or somethin...
 

Sheldon N

Blind Squirrel Finds a Nut
Sep 24, 2014
2,639
502
83
Pacific Northwest
#75
I like the suggestions of annealing and switching to an expander mandrel to help provide more consistent neck tension. It sounds like you've got a lot of pressure during seating, which I generally don't like. You could even try a larger expander mandrel that's 0.001 instead of 0.002.

With the marks on your bullets from the seater stem, the other thing I'd do would be to take the seater stem out of the die, chuck up a bullet in a drill and then polish the inside of the stem with metal polish and the bullet so that there were no sharp edges and the contact point was more evenly matched to the bullet shape.
 
Nov 1, 2017
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#77
Something definitely wrong with the seating stem, should be a light ring mark, not that mess.
And this is with very light steady pressure I am not jerking it or anything like that or forcing it down. Does the mark seem a little high for the ogive? I thought Ogive was a little lower?
 

arm017

Sergeant
Jun 5, 2017
399
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28
Texas
#78
I like the suggestions of annealing and switching to an expander mandrel to help provide more consistent neck tension. It sounds like you've got a lot of pressure during seating, which I generally don't like. You could even try a larger expander mandrel that's 0.001 instead of 0.002.

With the marks on your bullets from the seater stem, the other thing I'd do would be to take the seater stem out of the die, chuck up a bullet in a drill and then polish the inside of the stem with metal polish and the bullet so that there were no sharp edges and the contact point was more evenly matched to the bullet shape.
I like to have a few different sized mandrels on deck sort of similar to bushings for dies cause all the brass is different. I have found it more consistent to tune neck tension this way since most of our chambers with no turn necks give you at least 5 thou clearance. And many of the expander balls measure right at 1 thou under bullet diameter.
 
Nov 1, 2017
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#79
I sent that picture to Forster Customer service and they are going to try to send me a new seating stem and see if that helps my issue, I wonder if it would be worth have the stem custom machined to my Hornady Bullets to make sure they grab at the ogive line
 

ruebarb

Sergeant of the Hide
Feb 7, 2018
203
61
28
Littleton, MA
#80
And this is with very light steady pressure I am not jerking it or anything like that or forcing it down. Does the mark seem a little high for the ogive? I thought Ogive was a little lower?
Are you using a VLD stem? The Benchrest Seat die page, indicates it has the VLD stem, the page for the mic dies does not, could be just an omision. It looks like the stem is slipping down the bullet, the stem would be the wrong shape.
 

ruebarb

Sergeant of the Hide
Feb 7, 2018
203
61
28
Littleton, MA
#81
I sent that picture to Forster Customer service and they are going to try to send me a new seating stem and see if that helps my issue, I wonder if it would be worth have the stem custom machined to my Hornady Bullets to make sure they grab at the ogive line
I hate to be that guy, but if the new stem doesn't solve the issue. the Redding Comp Mic die with the VLD stem works great.
 
Nov 1, 2017
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#82
I hate to be that guy, but if the new stem doesn't solve the issue. the Redding Comp Mic die with the VLD stem works great.
This was the reply I got from Forster. They seem to have great customer service, I am almost wondering if I got a bad stem it looks like its grabbing the bullets way above the ogive line right?

If you have some extra pressure be it through neck tension, burrs on the case mouth, a compressed load, excessive run out on the resized cases it could attribute to this issue. If by chance this replacement Seating Stem does not take care of the issue, i would recommend sending the die in with some sample cases you have prepped and sample bullets for our review. looking at the marks on the bullet in think the stem has some damage or is simply not agreeing with that specific bullet profile.
 

ruebarb

Sergeant of the Hide
Feb 7, 2018
203
61
28
Littleton, MA
#83
This was the reply I got from Forster. They seem to have great customer service, I am almost wondering if I got a bad stem it looks like its grabbing the bullets way above the ogive line right?

If you have some extra pressure be it through neck tension, burrs on the case mouth, a compressed load, excessive run out on the resized cases it could attribute to this issue. If by chance this replacement Seating Stem does not take care of the issue, i would recommend sending the die in with some sample cases you have prepped and sample bullets for our review. looking at the marks on the bullet in think the stem has some damage or is simply not agreeing with that specific bullet profile.
I called them about their Honed Body Die, wanted to know if they would make one in 6.5, didn't call me back, then I finally got a female on the phone, she was nice, then she sent me to some technical guy who a complete dick, didn't actually answer my question, contradicted himself and kept trying to run me off the phone. I then tried to ask him about their Honed Full Length die, didn't get any better answer. I called back again, asked if I could talk to someone else, was promised a call back, still never got a call back.

I still did order the FL Honed die and then found out it is back ordered for weeks, they don't even have the courtesy to update their website.

I'm not impressed, I've spoken to Redding many times, those guys are great.
 
Nov 1, 2017
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#84
I called them about their Honed Body Die, wanted to know if they would make one in 6.5, didn't call me back, then I finally got a female on the phone, she was nice, then she sent me to some technical guy who a complete dick, didn't actually answer my question, contradicted himself and kept trying to run me off the phone. I then tried to ask him about their Honed Full Length die, didn't get any better answer. I called back again, asked if I could talk to someone else, was promised a call back, still never got a call back.

I still did order the FL Honed die and then found out it is back ordered for weeks, they don't even have the courtesy to update their website.

I'm not impressed, I've spoken to Redding many times, those guys are great.
If it comes down to it I will give them a call. I ordered the honed FL die from Forster and all my brass come out very consistent at .2880 which is exactly what I had it honed to. But when I first ordered I weight Redding in pretty heavy but went with Forster since I got there press. I may end up going toward Redding if this doesnt work out.
 

ruebarb

Sergeant of the Hide
Feb 7, 2018
203
61
28
Littleton, MA
#85
If it comes down to it I will give them a call. I ordered the honed FL die from Forster and all my brass come out very consistent at .2880 which is exactly what I had it honed to. But when I first ordered I weight Redding in pretty heavy but went with Forster since I got there press. I may end up going toward Redding if this doesnt work out.
I'm current running the Redding neck bushing die. The honed die should hopefully perform better, good to know the honed die should be made right to the correct spec.
 

spife7980

Full Member
Feb 10, 2017
3,727
752
113
TX
#86
Im curious why you have two different rings?

1531164859477.png

Does the mark seem a little high for the ogive? I thought Ogive was a little lower?
The ogive is the entire curvature from the bearing surface to the tip. When we say measured on the ogive that typically means just a bit in front of the bearing surface.
A bullet is .308" but the lands are .300" so even the barrel isnt actually first touching at full diameter.

Do like sheldon said: unscrew the top off your current die and see how the bullet fits in it the seating stem.
 
Likes: FishDr
Nov 1, 2017
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#87
Im curious why you have two different rings?

View attachment 6920664



The ogive is the entire curvature from the bearing surface to the tip. When we say measured on the ogive that typically means just a bit in front of the bearing surface.
A bullet is .308" but the lands are .300" so even the barrel isnt actually first touching at full diameter.

Do like sheldon said: unscrew the top off your current die and see how the bullet fits in it the seating stem.
So the top line is from the seating die and the bottom line if from my Hornady 5-26 comparator. Which one is more correct ?
 

spife7980

Full Member
Feb 10, 2017
3,727
752
113
TX
#88
So the top line is from the seating die and the bottom line if from my Hornady 5-26 comparator. Which one is more correct ?
Both and yet neither.
Looks like youre really pushing on the caliper wheel though if youre scribing your bullets like that with the comparator.
 
Nov 1, 2017
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#89
Both and yet neither.
Looks like youre really pushing on the caliper wheel though if youre scribing your bullets like that with the comparator.
I agree with you there I need to ease up a little I think. I think that I will see how the new stem works and give Forster a chance to see if they think its my brass or something else then look into getting the stem custom machined to fit the bulelts
 

spife7980

Full Member
Feb 10, 2017
3,727
752
113
TX
#90
You can custom "machine" a stem yourself like sheldon said. The forster should have a "vld" stem already though
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/tag/seating-stem/


And incase youre apprehensive about unscrewing it and losing your settings just to check, the forster seater can be unscrewed at the point in red below, you can access the internal sliding sleeve and end of the seating stem without losing your place.

1531166607661.png


I just dont see how you can be having enough resistance to mar the bullet like that if you are really at .288 sized and .290 seated using a boat tail bullet.
I have heard of the forster stems splitting and so as you force the bullet in it spreads wider and maybe thats whats causing it: it has a fracture and as you get spread it also gets forced tighter as its wedged in the die which would also help explain how its such a wide mark as well.
 
Jun 13, 2008
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298
63
#91
I agree with you there I need to ease up a little I think. I think that I will see how the new stem works and give Forster a chance to see if they think its my brass or something else then look into getting the stem custom machined to fit the bulelts
When using any precision measuring instruments, you need to calibrate your hand to stop advancing the instrument when it JUST STOPS.

Bare CONTACT is all you are looking for: ie: there is no longer any air between the copper and the stainless. But don't go any further than that.

1) It results in varied and erroneous measurements, and

2) It damages tools.

Some of these measuring tools, as you progress in this hobby, get downright expensive. Tearing them up with brute force is a bad idea.


-Nate
 
Nov 1, 2017
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#92
You can custom "machine" a stem yourself like sheldon said. The forster should have a "vld" stem already though
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/tag/seating-stem/


And incase youre apprehensive about unscrewing it and losing your settings just to check, the forster seater can be unscrewed at the point in red below, you can access the internal sliding sleeve and end of the seating stem without losing your place.

View attachment 6920675


I just dont see how you can be having enough resistance to mar the bullet like that if you are really at .288 sized and .290 seated using a boat tail bullet.
I have heard of the forster stems splitting and so as you force the bullet in it spreads wider and maybe thats whats causing it: it has a fracture and as you get spread it also gets forced tighter as its wedged in the die which would also help explain how its such a wide mark as well.
Also to add to this the issue has been getting worse and worse. Started with .002 and the .005 then .008 and most recently .015 between back to back seats
 
Nov 1, 2017
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#93
You can custom "machine" a stem yourself like sheldon said. The forster should have a "vld" stem already though
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/tag/seating-stem/


And incase youre apprehensive about unscrewing it and losing your settings just to check, the forster seater can be unscrewed at the point in red below, you can access the internal sliding sleeve and end of the seating stem without losing your place.

View attachment 6920675


I just dont see how you can be having enough resistance to mar the bullet like that if you are really at .288 sized and .290 seated using a boat tail bullet.
I have heard of the forster stems splitting and so as you force the bullet in it spreads wider and maybe thats whats causing it: it has a fracture and as you get spread it also gets forced tighter as its wedged in the die which would also help explain how its such a wide mark as well.
That was one of the first things that Forster made me do
You can custom "machine" a stem yourself like sheldon said. The forster should have a "vld" stem already though
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/tag/seating-stem/


And incase youre apprehensive about unscrewing it and losing your settings just to check, the forster seater can be unscrewed at the point in red below, you can access the internal sliding sleeve and end of the seating stem without losing your place.

View attachment 6920675


I just dont see how you can be having enough resistance to mar the bullet like that if you are really at .288 sized and .290 seated using a boat tail bullet.
I have heard of the forster stems splitting and so as you force the bullet in it spreads wider and maybe thats whats causing it: it has a fracture and as you get spread it also gets forced tighter as its wedged in the die which would also help explain how its such a wide mark as well.
The first thing forster had me do was to take this apart and send them pictures of the bullets dropped through the sleeve he thought they might be binding but the dropped in free. while I had it apart I took a picture of the stem doesn't look cracked or like it has any sharp edges to me
 

Attachments

sinister

Gunny Sergeant
Apr 16, 2002
1,586
16
38
Park City, Utah
#94
You're following a lot of benchrest "Best practices" with the honed die, mandrel, VLD seater, and lightly waxed necks and/or bullets.

What you haven't seemed to check is how thick is the brass in your necks? You say you haven't outside-turned -- have you also considered inside reaming?



I know it sounds like a lot of work but your low SD/ES seem to be working -- and you seem to still be getting varying seating depth with fairly consistent bullets.

The die (bushing or not) is going to size, then the mandrel or expander ball is going to open it up a little, depending on elasticity of the brass. The brass will grow in length and require trimming. Your brass may also get thicker at the necks. Annealing will soften the brass to prevent work-hardening and cracking, but won't do anything for the thickness of the neck walls as you've been working them.
 
Last edited:
Nov 1, 2017
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#95
For anyone still following this I
You can custom "machine" a stem yourself like sheldon said. The forster should have a "vld" stem already though
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/tag/seating-stem/


And incase youre apprehensive about unscrewing it and losing your settings just to check, the forster seater can be unscrewed at the point in red below, you can access the internal sliding sleeve and end of the seating stem without losing your place.

View attachment 6920675


I just dont see how you can be having enough resistance to mar the bullet like that if you are really at .288 sized and .290 seated using a boat tail bullet.
I have heard of the forster stems splitting and so as you force the bullet in it spreads wider and maybe thats whats causing it: it has a fracture and as you get spread it also gets forced tighter as its wedged in the die which would also help explain how its such a wide mark as well.
For anyone still following this I follow the method of tuning my seating stem to my bullet using a drill and some polishing stuff and now it is seating so much better about 90% are coming within .0005 of each other still got a few that are a little tight that need an extra push but this was a major step in the right direction. Thanks for the tips!
 
Nov 1, 2017
44
5
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#96
For anyone still following this I


For anyone still following this I follow the method of tuning my seating stem to my bullet using a drill and some polishing stuff and now it is seating so much better about 90% are coming within .0005 of each other still got a few that are a little tight that need an extra push but this was a major step in the right direction. Thanks for the tips!
Also my stem no longer leaves any marks than cant be wiped away with a cloth
 

TXSGFmrCWO3

Sergeant of the Hide
Jun 30, 2018
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Fort Bend County, Texas
#97
Just a thought... one problem I had with the Forster micrometer seating die happened when I wasn't properly adjusting the die to make sure the
sliding Die Chamber was not compressed. After I grabbed the instructions and started over, my runout dropped considerably.
 
Likes: FishDr
Sep 20, 2013
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#99
I called them about their Honed Body Die, wanted to know if they would make one in 6.5, didn't call me back, then I finally got a female on the phone, she was nice, then she sent me to some technical guy who a complete dick, didn't actually answer my question, contradicted himself and kept trying to run me off the phone. I then tried to ask him about their Honed Full Length die, didn't get any better answer. I called back again, asked if I could talk to someone else, was promised a call back, still never got a call back.

I still did order the FL Honed die and then found out it is back ordered for weeks, they don't even have the courtesy to update their website.

I'm not impressed, I've spoken to Redding many times, those guys are great.
This has been my experience as well.

The original press crushed the spent primer tube. Since redesigned. They will not send replacement parts for the original screwed up design unless I ship them the part at my expense.

Last two seating dies had out of spec seating stems. One failed on the first pull of the handle. The seating cup mushroomed on the second. Same story: send us the part at your expense and we will think about replacing it. This means my co-ax press is unusable for weeks at a time.

Complete dicks describes their customer service accurately.

Unusual in an industry known for outstanding customer service. DILLON they are not.

I have had zero problems with dies from three other suppliers for a dozen or more calibers.

Buyer beware.
 
Likes: ruebarb
Apr 8, 2009
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Southern Alabama
I was loading 6.5 Grendel a couple of weeks ago with Hornady once fired brass and a Forester seating die. I was measuring the ogive lengths for each round, and they varied over a range of about 0.005".
Since this was the first time I had reloaded for the Grendel, I was extra careful and wanted the ogive lengths consistent, so this was driving me nuts.
I checked the base of the primed cases ( Winchester WSR primers ) against one of the faces of a machinist's 1-2-3 block and found that some of the primers were seated slightly proud of the base by what looked like a couple of thousanths. This answered the question as to why I was seeing the variation. I will either have to run a primer pocket uniformer on the brass or modify a dedicated pair of calipers with clearance for any proud primers on the measuring jaw of the caliper to compensate and get a consistent reading.
Lapua brass may not have this issue with proud primers and in a bolt gun with good brass it makes more sense to uniform the brass as the loss rate is much lower that my 6.5 Grendel chambered AR-15 that tosses brass around 15 feet.
 
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