Form 4 wait time

NorthWesterner

Sergeant
Belligerents
Minuteman
Dec 24, 2017
360
97
34
31
Sedro Woolley, WA
Learned some interesting things today straight from atf.
called into check on the status of my forum 4 trust that is now pending for 13 months. I have checked in since it was about 9 months every few weeks just to see where I was at. Each time I got the same response. Still pending not assigned to examiner.
This time was different. I asked the status and they said still pending. I asked why many people have received back approved form 4’s after only a few months. She replied by telling me that they draw randomly from the form 4 pile and that’s the reason some have been going through quickly. She soon assured me I would be soon because I have been waiting so long. I asked, So if I understand correctly there is no order to assign to examiners by date submitted it’s al random. She confirmed this. So I replied again, if this is a random process, I could be waiting 4-5 years for my form to be randomly drawn from the ever expanding pile? She said, well it shouldn’t take that long. She said I could speak to a supervisor because mine has gone so long. She transferred me to the supervisor who went straight to voicemail. This organization needs to go away. They have no business governing anything, let alone firearms. Even a 6th grader can understand first come first serve. I’m at a loss for how disorganized this really is.
 

vigildom7

Sergeant of the Hide
Hessian
Belligerents
Minuteman
May 15, 2018
264
116
49
Albuquerque, New Mexico
I feel like it shouldn't matter especially if it's a single person trust
I know it's a messed up system. But that's what happens when you let the government run things. I feel like with the trust they dont just have to research the individual but always have to look over the trust which probably takes longer.
 

Bigrederic

Sergeant of the Hide
Belligerents
Jun 22, 2018
136
90
34
SE Alaska
I am not really surprised at this point. It seems like they just skipped over September 2018 and went on with life like there was never any submissions at all that month. There are August approvals, there are October approvals.... but it dont seem like there is shit for September approvals.
 
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NorthWesterner

Sergeant
Belligerents
Minuteman
Dec 24, 2017
360
97
34
31
Sedro Woolley, WA
I am not really surprised at this point. It seems like they just skipped over September 2018 and went on with life like there was never any submissions at all that month. There are August approvals, there are October approvals.... but it dont seem like there is shit for September approvals.
Yup! Still no idea why....very unhappy.
 

FUNCTIONAL

Dirty Civilian
Belligerents
Feb 19, 2012
889
256
69
Charlotte, NC
Brother-in-law and I both bought suppressors on 02/15/19 and paperwork was mailed same day. His was individual and mine was trust with 2 RPs.

Lets see who wins. Although none of us are really winning with this process.
 

HenryTheAce

Private
Minuteman
Sep 8, 2017
18
6
6
Michigan
Called yet again today and it was finally approved yesterday, ~410 days Form 4 Trust
That is insanity. Glad it finally got through for ya. I have multiple in jail ranging from May 2019 to October of 2019. All are “pending” all single shot trust
 

sgtsmmiii

Lieutenant
Belligerents
Sep 2, 2010
453
87
34
64
Lexington, KY
Yup! Still no idea why....very unhappy.
Well, after working in govt. for 34 years, the last 28 in supervisory positions, I say it's about time to start rattling cages. I'd call back EVERY day, asking to talk to a supervisor. If I was forced to leave a voice mail that wasn't returned ( and I've never had a ATF supervisor return a voice message ), I'd very politely demand to talk to HIS supervisor. Get their email address and ( again, politely ) burn it up. I'd keep going up the food chain until a supervisory SOMEONE talked to me personally. It's also time to involve your congressperson's and senator's offices. Make NOISE !! A lot of it. Be ( politely, but firmly ) demanding. Be a pain in their rear until someone provides some sort of acceptable service. This has worked several times for me and some associates. Takes your time, but it works ( and actually becomes somewhat fun ).
 
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NorthWesterner

Sergeant
Belligerents
Minuteman
Dec 24, 2017
360
97
34
31
Sedro Woolley, WA
Well, after working in govt. for 34 years, the last 28 in supervisory positions, I say it's about time to start rattling cages. I'd call back EVERY day, asking to talk to a supervisor. If I was forced to leave a voice mail that wasn't returned ( and I've never had a ATF supervisor return a voice message ), I'd very politely demand to talk to HIS supervisor. Get their email address and ( again, politely ) burn it up. I'd keep going up the food chain until a supervisory SOMEONE talked to me personally. It's also time to involve your congressperson's and senator's offices. Make NOISE !! A lot of it. Be ( politely, but firmly ) demanding. Be a pain in their rear until someone provides some sort of acceptable service. This has worked several times for me and some associates. Takes your time, but it works ( and actually becomes somewhat fun ).
Good call on keep moving up. I will continue to call back till I get some answers.
 

Brasco20

Private
Minuteman
Dec 10, 2018
6
3
6
I got a surprise phone call a few days ago. I purchased the suppressor on 3-15-19 and my paperwork came back 10-15-19. Picked up my can yesterday. 5 months earlier than I was expecting. I thought that it might even take longer than a year. I originally bought a cb mount and then decided I wanted direct thread after the form had already been submitted. The dealer said he needed to request a serial number change. I figured that was going to screw me. When I picked up the can I said boy that was way faster than I expected. She said they were starting to come back faster and were told it would be 120 day turn around here pretty soon. To that she said “ we’ll see”
 

Stooxie

Sergeant of the Hide
Belligerents
Minuteman
Oct 11, 2018
373
233
49
Has anyone here submitted a trust in the timeframe were seeing the 90 days come back?
There's no way. A trust has to be read by someone who has half a clue, they aren't going to assume it's valid. Might be cool if they did pre-vet the common ones like the single shot trust but that's too clever for government.

I also think they just want to encourage everyone to come clean and pony up your pictures and fingerprints each time. They traded CLEO approval for more fingerprints and pictures, i.e. your personal info in their databases.

Of course I'll be happy to be wrong about this. I have a can waiting on a single shot trust since June. I fully expect it to be next May before it's approved.

-Stooxie
 

Geno C.

Dirty Carnie (ICLASA)
Belligerents
Oct 24, 2007
4,281
8,552
219
35
Wautoma, WI
There's no way. A trust has to be read by someone who has half a clue, they aren't going to assume it's valid. Might be cool if they did pre-vet the common ones like the single shot trust but that's too clever for government.

I also think they just want to encourage everyone to come clean and pony up your pictures and fingerprints each time. They traded CLEO approval for more fingerprints and pictures, i.e. your personal info in their databases.

Of course I'll be happy to be wrong about this. I have a can waiting on a single shot trust since June. I fully expect it to be next May before it's approved.

-Stooxie
You still have to have pictures and prints on a trust....
 

Geno C.

Dirty Carnie (ICLASA)
Belligerents
Oct 24, 2007
4,281
8,552
219
35
Wautoma, WI
I read it as, they got rid of the cleo sign off to encourage more people to go individual so they could get more prints and pictures.
 

spife7980

Luchador
Belligerents
Feb 10, 2017
6,692
4,096
119
Central TX
I read it as, they got rid of the cleo sign off to encourage more people to go individual so they could get more prints and pictures.
I read it as they removed the cleo approval requirement for a simple notification form in order to drive more people to trusts which would provide them more finger prints and pictures than just individuals.

Not to say the gubment actually thought that many steps ahead... but its a nice theory.
 

NorthWesterner

Sergeant
Belligerents
Minuteman
Dec 24, 2017
360
97
34
31
Sedro Woolley, WA
Well, after working in govt. for 34 years, the last 28 in supervisory positions, I say it's about time to start rattling cages. I'd call back EVERY day, asking to talk to a supervisor. If I was forced to leave a voice mail that wasn't returned ( and I've never had a ATF supervisor return a voice message ), I'd very politely demand to talk to HIS supervisor. Get their email address and ( again, politely ) burn it up. I'd keep going up the food chain until a supervisory SOMEONE talked to me personally. It's also time to involve your congressperson's and senator's offices. Make NOISE !! A lot of it. Be ( politely, but firmly ) demanding. Be a pain in their rear until someone provides some sort of acceptable service. This has worked several times for me and some associates. Takes your time, but it works ( and actually becomes somewhat fun ).
Called again today. They wouldn’t provide e mail addresses of the supervisor or transfer me to HIS supervisor. They were not happy I was asking for information.
 

Mooseknuckles

Private
Belligerents
Jan 11, 2014
502
1,526
99
Got the call today. Tax stamp came in, going to pick it up tomorrow.
Bought it on 1/23/19
Check cashed 2/8/19
Stamp arrived 10/18/19
Pick up tomorrow
 

mountainman308

Sergeant of the Hide
Belligerents
Jul 20, 2012
249
46
34
WV, USA
I'm just hoping to see some trusts come through in the 90 day approval window. I purchased on 8/1/19, and would love to have my can for deer season.
 

loveha

SGT's OFP
Belligerents
Minuteman
Jul 31, 2018
384
250
49
NW Lower Michigan
Got the call today. Tax stamp came in, going to pick it up tomorrow.
Bought it on 1/23/19
Check cashed 2/8/19
Stamp arrived 10/18/19
Pick up tomorrow

Mine was cashed 2/15. Kind of excited, maybe it's in the mail! Or, more plausible, I been skipped and will see it in Feb... Bah, back to forgetting it exists.
 

Mooseknuckles

Private
Belligerents
Jan 11, 2014
502
1,526
99
Mine was cashed 2/15. Kind of excited, maybe it's in the mail! Or, more plausible, I been skipped and will see it in Feb... Bah, back to forgetting it exists.
I was expecting January or February.
When I called the atf the lady said it looked like I was going to receive it in November but came a couple weeks early.
I did a form 4 individual.
 

Gtscotty

Sergeant of the Hide
Belligerents
Minuteman
Jul 22, 2018
199
147
49
Learned some interesting things today straight from atf.
called into check on the status of my forum 4 trust that is now pending for 13 months. I have checked in since it was about 9 months every few weeks just to see where I was at. Each time I got the same response. Still pending not assigned to examiner.
This time was different. I asked the status and they said still pending. I asked why many people have received back approved form 4’s after only a few months. She replied by telling me that they draw randomly from the form 4 pile and that’s the reason some have been going through quickly. She soon assured me I would be soon because I have been waiting so long. I asked, So if I understand correctly there is no order to assign to examiners by date submitted it’s al random. She confirmed this. So I replied again, if this is a random process, I could be waiting 4-5 years for my form to be randomly drawn from the ever expanding pile? She said, well it shouldn’t take that long. She said I could speak to a supervisor because mine has gone so long. She transferred me to the supervisor who went straight to voicemail. This organization needs to go away. They have no business governing anything, let alone firearms. Even a 6th grader can understand first come first serve. I’m at a loss for how disorganized this really is.
That I basically what I was told when I called last time, that there was a pull from the front of the stack to bring average wait times down (which is a metric they are briefing up their chain).
 

sgtsmmiii

Lieutenant
Belligerents
Sep 2, 2010
453
87
34
64
Lexington, KY
Called again today. They wouldn’t provide e mail addresses of the supervisor or transfer me to HIS supervisor. They were not happy I was asking for information.
Well, then. Interesting, as they have always ( somewhat reluctantly ) provided me with that information when I asked. They must be getting a LOT of flak on turn around times. LOL. I think ( as a former govt. employee ) that their constituents ( you ) have a right to that information.

I'd keep ( politely ) hammering away.
 
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Landon4

Sergeant of the Hide
Hessian
Online Training Access
Belligerents
Minuteman
Dec 26, 2018
148
36
34
Oklahoma
My recent purchase was cashed on 7/15/19
Approval on 9/23/19
Received at shop 10/17/19
I’ve been out of town but will pick it up this Tuesday 10/22:29
So about 90 days from cashed to dealer, I have 2 others that were cashed 3/19/19 and they are still pending as of last week, I was also told they had just randomly grabbed some from the middle of the pile by the atf
 

chase102798

Private
Belligerents
Minuteman
Jan 3, 2010
108
10
22
39
Nescopeck, PA
Learned some interesting things today straight from atf.
called into check on the status of my forum 4 trust that is now pending for 13 months. I have checked in since it was about 9 months every few weeks just to see where I was at. Each time I got the same response. Still pending not assigned to examiner.
This time was different. I asked the status and they said still pending. I asked why many people have received back approved form 4’s after only a few months. She replied by telling me that they draw randomly from the form 4 pile and that’s the reason some have been going through quickly. She soon assured me I would be soon because I have been waiting so long. I asked, So if I understand correctly there is no order to assign to examiners by date submitted it’s al random. She confirmed this. So I replied again, if this is a random process, I could be waiting 4-5 years for my form to be randomly drawn from the ever expanding pile? She said, well it shouldn’t take that long. She said I could speak to a supervisor because mine has gone so long. She transferred me to the supervisor who went straight to voicemail. This organization needs to go away. They have no business governing anything, let alone firearms. Even a 6th grader can understand first come first serve. I’m at a loss for how disorganized this really is.

I know you guys are anxious and have every right to be since it totally sucks, but this has been discussed many times online by different outlets. Calling repeatedly is not the solution. All it does is tie up examiners and wastes their time. We have alot of customers who ask us to call. And beyond calling once just to make sure that it made it there in the mail, we dont bother the examiners and wont continue doing it. You have to realize that people all over the country are also calling and that takes someone away from doing the job that we are expecting of them. We have had many many forms submitted and never had one not come back. Some longer than others but the 4-5 year example isnt realistic. Again, Im not picking on anyone so I hope no one is offended by this, and as a dealer I cant really empathize since I dont go through the process. But I talk to alot of our customers who get frustrated, which we unfortunately have to deal with, and it really does suck for them and I agree it is a broken system and should go away. But thats probably not going to happen anytime soon. The best we can do is try not to make the situation worse by prolonging the process time.
 

chase102798

Private
Belligerents
Minuteman
Jan 3, 2010
108
10
22
39
Nescopeck, PA
Well, then. Interesting, as they have always ( somewhat reluctantly ) provided me with that information when I asked. They must be getting a LOT of flak on turn around times. LOL. I think ( as a former govt. employee ) that their constituents ( you ) have a right to that information.

I'd keep ( politely ) hammering away.
As long as your form is in their system, please dont. Its not helping anything.
 

NorthWesterner

Sergeant
Belligerents
Minuteman
Dec 24, 2017
360
97
34
31
Sedro Woolley, WA
I know you guys are anxious and have every right to be since it totally sucks, but this has been discussed many times online by different outlets. Calling repeatedly is not the solution. All it does is tie up examiners and wastes their time. We have alot of customers who ask us to call. And beyond calling once just to make sure that it made it there in the mail, we dont bother the examiners and wont continue doing it. You have to realize that people all over the country are also calling and that takes someone away from doing the job that we are expecting of them. We have had many many forms submitted and never had one not come back. Some longer than others but the 4-5 year example isnt realistic. Again, Im not picking on anyone so I hope no one is offended by this, and as a dealer I cant really empathize since I dont go through the process. But I talk to alot of our customers who get frustrated, which we unfortunately have to deal with, and it really does suck for them and I agree it is a broken system and should go away. But thats probably not going to happen anytime soon. The best we can do is try not to make the situation worse by prolonging the process time.
The people answering the phone are NOT examiners. The people answering the phone are there to do just that. I’m not blowing up the phone system. Calling once a month or so is not only reasonable but the people on the phone ask You to cal back in that time. At any rate, the conduct of grabbing random forums is completely out of line. I have since contacted my congress and senators regarding this matter. I will keep you all posted as things progress.
 
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Dombern34

Sergeant of the Hide
Belligerents
Minuteman
Jun 28, 2019
336
150
49
********** I JUST GOT THE CALL TODAY*********

Submitted 1/3/19
card charged 1/11/19
phone from dealer saying to come get this suppressor out of jail 10/21/2019

can't tell me shit right now.
 

stevenc23

Full Member
Belligerents
Oct 21, 2013
825
157
49
Denver, CO
So the saga continues..... Called the NFA office this AM and they stated it is still pending. Couple of hours latter I got a follow up email from my Senator's office which included a reply they got from the NFA office stating "constituent’s ATF Form 4 was disapproved and returned because it failed to have an original signature or a qualifying eSignature. ATF is in the process of returning the associated tax to all persons whose ATF Forms 4 were disapproved".

This was done through silencershop so I gave them a call and waiting to hear back from them as well as my local FFL to see if they received the disapproval letter. THIS IS INSANE 441 DAYS AND COUNTING!!!!!!!
 
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