Form 4 Trust/Individual - How to Help Yourself

RMB

Private
Minuteman
Mar 18, 2019
14
21
6
This is my first post. So if there are any diction errors, etc. Please bear with me. If I get sarcastic....well my apologies in advance.

What follows is my experience with a Form 4 trust and how to speed up the "approval' process. Remember that there is no first in/first out, everything is pretty much chance/at random and, most importantly there is no, zero, nada accountability. The folks I was working with at the NFA are dealing with a broken system with no method to the madness......If you work the system and use your senator (assuming he/she are NRA friendly) you can do better than average.

I checked into the dealers in my area and went with who I thought to be the best. I had an attorney (that the SOT suggested) create the trust for two people. (Putting two people on the trust is a BIG mistake! More on that later).

Once you have completed the paperwork, put money down on the suppressor , written the check(s)*, and the paperwork mailed to the NFA immediately contact your firearms friendly Senator and ask for a privacy form. Your senators office will NOT be able to contact any one at the DOJ (i.e. FBI) or NFA on your behalf without this form in hand. Of note, my Senator would not accept any electronic forms of the Privacy Release. I had to complete everything via snail mail. If the office does not know what you are asking for then reference the Privacy Release Act of 1974 (Public Law 93-579). The office may send this via email (which mine did) but had to be completed and snail mailed back. Also, there is no place 'on line' to get this form. Each senator has a personalized format that they use. My original contact was via e-mail and with my interface with the senators office I never once talked to the guy. EVERYTHING was via email, Of note, once you have a persons/staffers name in your senators office always work with this individual. Once the form is filled out you will also need a professional and polite cover letter with an introduction to include name, address, phone number and personal e-mail etc....and the serial number, type, description, caliber and Trust name (or individual).

* - on the matter of the check(s). I used certified checks from my bank. This way there would be absolutely "zero" chances of an issue with clearing. And, I told my bank I wanted to be notified via email when the check cleared.

I would suggest that getting the privacy release form be requested the second the paperwork is sent to the NFA, assuming you have the serial number,. Don't wait until they (the NFA) sends the application to the FBI.

So now you have the paperwork sent to the NFA and are in the process of getting the privacy release form from your senator....and you wait.

Your bank calls and let's you know when the check was cashed....now you can go to work....the clock starts ticking.....give it 5 to 10 working days and call the NFA in West Virginia (1-304-616-4500) and ask about the status of your application. Again, you need the serial number, trust (or individual) name, etc. Get the first and last name of the NFA service person you are speaking to...be polite...remember all day, every day they are getting calls with impatient and/or upset individuals. A little tact goes a LONG ways...And, this person will be the only person you ever talk to....if you call in and get "sam'....ask to be transferred to the original service person. And yes you may get put on hold...deal with it. If you call at 9ish central time I never really had to wait that long. After a while I got to know my service person very well....

You supply the needed information and ask about the status...and you will get the reply..."Your application is not in the system." In which case you ask, "Why not the check was cashed two weeks ago?"....and see what they say. If you are not happy now you go to your senators office (which has your DOJ clearance form in hand). IIn my case via email with the senators office and tell them who you talked to, what time you talked to this person and when the check was cashed. Follow up with an e-mail to this specific person if possible. And you wait...about a week and call back to the NFA (talking to the same person...asked to be transferred if need be) and ask the same question....and keep up this merry-go-round until you hear the magic words, "Your application is in the system.". Now here is where you need the NFA "Secret De-Coder Ring". "Your application is in the system" really means you are not asking the right question and this is all the information I will supply. What you need to ask next is "Has my application been forwarded to the FBI? If the reply is "no', then ask when....So if the NFA person says two weeks..call back in two weeks and if still not forwarded to the FBI then right back to your senators office...and let them make the call....Remember that this is 'batch' based system. If you don't push the application thought the system then don't complain about the lead times.

So now a bit about a Trust and multiple persons on the trust. When putting together the trust make sure the cost charged includes adding others at a later date. If you put two (or more) people on the trust this means a DOJ release form for each person...and makes the follow up a nightmare.....If you do have two (or more) on the trust when sent to the FBI these are 'randomized' (for lack of a better term). You would think that the FBI checks would be kept together (as part of the same trust) but....nooooo, that would make too much sense. They (the FBI checks) are all tossed into a pile and each check is separate....I can't prove this but i have 95% faith in my opinion.

Ok, you have confirmation from the NFA as to the date the application was sent to the FBI...so now your application is at the FBI for approval....you can't call them...no follow up is possible....the 'black hole" of the whole process. You contact your congressman via email with the date the application was sent to the FBI......and they follow up....give it 5 to 10 working days.....And call the NFA back (talking to the same person) and find out if they have the FBI approval...if not....back to the senators office. Stay on this merry-go-round until they (the NFA) has the approval from the FBI.

Once the approval is back from the FBI, the NFA assigns the application to a specific individual/inspector. This is the key....ask your service person (the same one every time)..."Has my approval been approved and received by the NFA?"...If yes ask for the specific inspector this application was assigned to... Get this inspectors full (proper name) first and last name spelled correctly and asked to be forwarded to this persons phone. The service person will forward you and there is a 99.9% chance you will go right to voice mail. Leave your name, phone number, personal e-mail, serial number, trust (or individual) name, SOT dealer, etc. and ask "What (if anything) can I do to aid you in the approval?" Is the trust correct? . Call back every day leave the exact same message...you will not get a direct dial number, you have to go thought the service group...but again, ask to be transfer to the same service person...and ask he/she to forward you to your assigned inspectors phone......

Then assuming no response, Call in and working with the same service person....explain the 5 days of voice mails....being polite.....and ask to be forwarded to this inspectors supervisor. Get this persons FULL Name . They will not give you a direct dial phone number ....again 99.9% straight to voice mail...and leave the message:

Good Morning,
This is reference to
Serial Number
Trust (or individual)
Type
SOT Dealer
Phone Number
e-mail (personal)
MY understanding is that my application was assigned to Mr/Mrs/Ms for approval. I have left this person 5 voice mails on this application. I have not received any response/feed back. What do you suggest? Is something wrong/incorrect on the application? Should I keep calling? What are OUR options....

Another piece of advice...when leaving any and all voice mails talk s-l-o-w-l-y allowing these people the time to write down all the information. I got tripped up (cost me a week) as someone transposed a number....

Contact the supervisor twice....And call out the big guns....back to your senator....with a detailed accounting of the status, to include (note: by now you should have the specific person at the senators office email address)

Serial Number
Trust (or individual) name
Type
SOT Dealer
Check Cashed Date
Set to FBI Date
Approved by FBI Date
FBI approval received by NFA
Date Assigned to NFA Inspector
NFA Inspectors Name
Dates (all of them) of Voice Mails to NFA Inspector
NFA Supervisors Name
Dates of all messages to NFA superviors
NFA Service persons name

You have to summarize all the information for the senators staff....in one place at one time. When they make the call if you give them enough ammo (pun intended) and all the information it allows them to 'speak with data'. This in turn leads to results.

In my case I was at 300+ days...and got sick of my SOT telling me to wait. So, i took on this quest on Dec 23, 2018...and even with the government shut down was approved on March 3 (yup a Sunday) and notified via email and a phone call by my inspector that I was approved. (note: once we started trading e-mails he (the inspector) turned out to be a REALLY good guy! ex-air force). I called in on Monday, March 4th and spoke to my service person...the same one that I talked to each and every time..and she told me I was approved and would make sure the stamp/approval was mailed that day....Received at the SOT (who I will never go back to!) on March 11th, 2019.

As it turned out the NFA sent the application to the FBI in March of 2018 and was 'stuck' there as of Dec 23, 2018....and with my senators help I was approved 3 days after the senators office received the DOJ release form.

The $200.00 stamp cashiers check was chased/cleared on January 30, 2018....approval on March 4th,....Stamp in hand March 11th.....405 days.....

Does this take up time....yeah about 10 minutes a day.....and lots of headaches....keep a note book handy and document all calls, emails, etc...It will help when working with your senators office.

On a personal note...I live in Wisconsin and without Senators Ron Johnson's office/staff I would still be tearing my hair out. They were professional, courteous, detail orientated and very, very responsive.

This system is broken, I would use the analogy of General Motors or any fortune 500 company using "Turbo Tax" for their accounting and MIS systems. It is beyond ridiculous. It is unmitigated, unadulterated bullsh#t. Can they do better? Imagine if the IRS was run like this...If we the consumers don't "work the system" it will never, ever get any better.

If you don't mind the wait..sorry for this post...If you want what you paid for , then speak up, be the squeaky wheel, and empower yourself and work with the tools (your senator) at your disposal.
 

RMB

Private
Minuteman
Mar 18, 2019
14
21
6
Below is a partial date summary of my NFA experience....laugh or weep....up to you!

Signed form 4 Trust Docs 1/3/2018
Submitted to the NFA 1/10/2018
Check Cashed by NFA 1/30/2018
Submitted to FBI 3/30/2018 (really? 60 days to forward to the FBI?)
Contacted NFA on 12/24/2018 about FBI Status
Contacted Congressman 1/3/2019 with correct snail mail forms to expedite FBI approval
Out of FBI (approved) back to NFA 1/15
Assigned to specific NFA person/inspector 2/13/2019 (really? one month to assign to an inspector)
Call/Emails to inspectors supervisor (after 5 voice mails-to inspector that were NOT returned)
Call back AND Email from Inspector on 2/25/2019
Email to Congressman (staff) on 2/28/2019
Approved on 3/3/2019 (yup approved and notified via email by the inspector on a Sunday)
Stamp in hand 3/11/2019
 

Longshot231

Gunny Sergeant
Belligerents
Minuteman
Mar 8, 2018
713
2,002
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Excellent write up! I have made purchases on 10 suppressors spread out from June 2018 to November 2018.

Five of those purchases were made with a personal check to pay for the tax stamp.

For the other five suppressors the manufacturer was running a special. If I bought a suppressor made by them, then they would pay for the tax stamp. So I bought five Sig suppressors. That saved me $1000.

So I have to go on faith that they paid the tax in a timely manner.

I haven't contacted the ATF yet, as I was going to wait till about the end of April.

So my question is this. Since I've got all 10 suppressor purchases spread out over 6 months, should I start the ball rolling on the first suppressor or lump all ten in the communications with my Senator/Congressman?

Thanks for the excellent post and persistence. You've really laid a good foundation for the rest of us to follow.

7047091
 

Srikaleak

Gunny Sergeant
Belligerents
Minuteman
May 11, 2018
649
320
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Very informative post. Next suppressor purchase I will test this process out and see if I can get improved times than what I'm at now.
 

RMB

Private
Minuteman
Mar 18, 2019
14
21
6
Based upon what I know about the system (or lack thereof) I would consider each one as "independent". As far as the NFA/DOJ information release form for your Senator...I would ask them. "Can I fill out one form for all inquires or a specific form for each application?" I would think that odds are with that many in the system you will need individual /specific requests for follow up with the FBI (by your senator) and then most likely separate/different NFA examiners....I mean why have one NFA examiner do all the approvals....because they will come back from the FBI at different times....Again, Turbo Tax type system.

I will state that with this many in the system....you better keep copious notes.....'cause your going to need documentation when the time calls for it......and you better be really nice to the NFA service person when you call in and ask to follow up on 10 applications and do not accept the standard line...."It is in process.".

So I have to go on faith that they paid the tax in a timely manner.
No you don't. Call the NFA and see if the application(s) are in the system...if not ask why? If there is no payment...call the person/company that was to have paid and complain to them. If they state this was paid...Ask them when the check/payment was made and was the check cashed? And ,then back to the NFA (asking for the same service person,....calling BS (in a polite and professional manner)....and your next call/email is to your senators office.

I haven't contacted the ATF yet, as I was going to wait till about the end of April.
If it has been three or four weeks make the call....nothing ventured nothing gained.

So my question is this. Since I've got all 10 suppressor purchases spread out over 6 months, should I start the ball rolling on the first suppressor or lump all ten in the communications with my Senator/Congressman?
I think i covered this above...contact you senator (like right now!), get the name of the aid that will be 'helping' you....and do E-X-A-C-T-L-Y what he/she tells you to do. I opened most correspondence with...."per our conversation/email I have completed the following per your directions". I would suggest that you open an email file /folder for each suppressor by serial number...and pull out every email out of your sent file and place in the correct folder. I think that correspondence/voice mails, etc concerning more than one application/serial number will result in confusion (for your senator and mostly the FBI/NFA) and result in an exercise in futility.

I would suggest you start with only one suppressor application (the one you want the worst) and start the process with only one. Once you get a 'feel' for the system and have a solid pipe line with your senator's office staffer....cut loose with the remaining 9 applications.

Clear as Mud? Welcome to the NFA process....
 

Longshot231

Gunny Sergeant
Belligerents
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Mar 8, 2018
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Based upon what I know about the system (or lack thereof) I would consider each one as "independent". As far as the NFA/DOJ information release form for your Senator...I would ask them. "Can I fill out one form for all inquires or a specific form for each application?" I would think that odds are with that many in the system you will need individual /specific requests for follow up with the FBI (by your senator) and then most likely separate/different NFA examiners....I mean why have one NFA examiner do all the approvals....because they will come back from the FBI at different times....Again, Turbo Tax type system.

I will state that with this many in the system....you better keep copious notes.....'cause your going to need documentation when the time calls for it......and you better be really nice to the NFA service person when you call in and ask to follow up on 10 applications and do not accept the standard line...."It is in process.".

So I have to go on faith that they paid the tax in a timely manner.
No you don't. Call the NFA and see if the application(s) are in the system...if not ask why? If there is no payment...call the person/company that was to have paid and complain to them. If they state this was paid...Ask them when the check/payment was made and was the check cashed? And ,then back to the NFA (asking for the same service person,....calling BS (in a polite and professional manner)....and your next call/email is to your senators office.

I haven't contacted the ATF yet, as I was going to wait till about the end of April.
If it has been three or four weeks make the call....nothing ventured nothing gained.

So my question is this. Since I've got all 10 suppressor purchases spread out over 6 months, should I start the ball rolling on the first suppressor or lump all ten in the communications with my Senator/Congressman?
I think i covered this above...contact you senator (like right now!), get the name of the aid that will be 'helping' you....and do E-X-A-C-T-L-Y what he/she tells you to do. I opened most correspondence with...."per our conversation/email I have completed the following per your directions". I would suggest that you open an email file /folder for each suppressor by serial number...and pull out every email out of your sent file and place in the correct folder. I think that correspondence/voice mails, etc concerning more than one application/serial number will result in confusion (for your senator and mostly the FBI/NFA) and result in an exercise in futility.

I would suggest you start with only one suppressor application (the one you want the worst) and start the process with only one. Once you get a 'feel' for the system and have a solid pipe line with your senator's office staffer....cut loose with the remaining 9 applications.

Clear as Mud? Welcome to the NFA process....
Good information. I've been keeping detailed records on everything. I even made up a spreadsheet with expected dates for tax stamp approval based on the NFA wait times.

By my calculations I should be getting the first two tax stamps in mid April. In the meantime, I will contact the Senator's office to get the Privacy Act Release.

Thanks again!
 

Sierra770

Sergeant of the Hide
Belligerents
Nov 2, 2013
311
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Atlanta, GA
Good information. I've been keeping detailed records on everything. I even made up a spreadsheet with expected dates for tax stamp approval based on the NFA wait times.

By my calculations I should be getting the first two tax stamps in mid April. In the meantime, I will contact the Senator's office to get the Privacy Act Release.

Thanks again!
I can't speak for your Senator, but several have a downloadable pdf on their website. They are usually found under "agency help" or "case work."
 

RMB

Private
Minuteman
Mar 18, 2019
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I can't speak for your Senator, but several have a downloadable pdf on their website. They are usually found under "agency help" or "case work."
Well there you go....I had to be told what I needed....I did not see anything on my senators web site...or maybe I did not look hard enough...LOL.
 

davere

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RMB

Private
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Mar 18, 2019
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Yup that's the form...My Senators form is just a little different but all the information requested is the same!

BTY - I think:
Ted Cruz was the #1 receiver of NRA contributions...
Scott Walker (who lost) was #2
Ron Johnson was #3
 
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Hippy_Steve

Sergeant of the Hide
Belligerents
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May 4, 2018
242
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I think the lynch pin in this effort is to have a pro-2a senator. Being a WA resident, i lack federal representation of my values and ideas. I'm still writing to my representitive to tell them i exist and i want my voice heard.

Thanks for the post!
 

Sierra770

Sergeant of the Hide
Belligerents
Nov 2, 2013
311
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Atlanta, GA
True. Your elected representatives will likely still help you if it's a Federal Process issue.


In the OPs post, he was already outside the normal course of the process, therefore most Senators would have helped in that situation.



While the system is broken it's not completely randomized. Look at correlation between the majority of check cashed times and approvals. There are a lot that fall by the way side though.
 

nick112288

Private
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Sep 25, 2018
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I am curious to see if this makes a difference in the normal time frame of things.

Obviously yours had been in jail for well over the "average" time the ATF tells. I wonder if this is as useful for the just submitted individual
 
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nick112288

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Sep 25, 2018
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I'm the kind of person who if I'm given a time frame going in then I let everything take its course until that time frame is past, plus or minus a little bit.

If I get to the point, like you, that I'm at WELL over the time frame, then I'll start pushing.

But I'm not the kind of person who submits something, knowing the current average is at 9 months (what I was told by the nice lady at the NFA branch), and starts immediately causing a stink to get it back.

I look at that as cutting in line. If they're having to constantly stop and either work on mine or field questions as to where mine is, that means I'm now causing those ahead of me to take that much longer. Why should I get mine back quicker than people who submitted before me?
 

Gilly

On Target
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I wonder what lead times would be if they didn’t have a phone to answer to field the weekly or in some cases more frequent calls from the same person on the same form??? If 10% of the applicants follow this time consuming (on both ends) process it’s just going to make it slower for all of us. Instead of one call per check now they field 2 or 3 woth your method. I hope my form isnt on your inspectors desk. I’m 6 months+ on current wait and haven’t yet called, probably won’t for another 3 months, maybe I’ll hear from SOT first. I knew the deal going in 7-9 months minimum. Does it suck? Yes. Do I like current system? No. But it is what it is. If it makes you feel better trying to game the system so be it but IMO you’re just adding to the traffic jam.
 

Lunchbox27

Professional whisky drinker
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I wonder what lead times would be if they didn’t have a phone to answer to field the weekly or in some cases more frequent calls from the same person on the same form??? If 10% of the applicants follow this time consuming (on both ends) process it’s just going to make it slower for all of us. Instead of one call per check now they field 2 or 3 woth your method. I hope my form isnt on your inspectors desk. I’m 6 months+ on current wait and haven’t yet called, probably won’t for another 3 months, maybe I’ll hear from SOT first. I knew the deal going in 7-9 months minimum. Does it suck? Yes. Do I like current system? No. But it is what it is. If it makes you feel better trying to game the system so be it but IMO you’re just adding to the traffic jam.
This!

No one likes waiting an unknown amount of time for something paid in full with no way of tracking completion.

I shot along side a guy at a local match a few years back after getting my first can. He had the same suppressor. I started asking how his process went and he told me he use to work for the ATF and was an inspector. He gave me some insight as to the process that we don’t see.

Long and short... quit calling. If the inspector has to take time to tell you yours still isn’t approved, you are slowing everything down.

Submit , look for the check to be cashed and move on with life.
 

Longshot231

Gunny Sergeant
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Mar 8, 2018
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This!

No one likes waiting an unknown amount of time for something paid in full with no way of tracking completion.

I shot along side a guy at a local match a few years back after getting my first can. He had the same suppressor. I started asking how his process went and he told me he use to work for the ATF and was an inspector. He gave me some insight as to the process that we don’t see.

Long and short... quit calling. If the inspector has to take time to tell you yours still isn’t approved, you are slowing everything down.

Submit , look for the check to be cashed and move on with life.
I could agree with you to a certain extent. I'm also a government employee and have to process work that is not unlike a Form 4 process. I am also under a time constraint to get my work accomplished.

When I don't get things processed in a certain amount of time, I have to give my supervisor a good reason why it hasn't been accomplished.

I've had to deal with private citizens who have threatened me with congressional action. That's never bothered me. I do my job according to the rules, in a timely and efficient manner.

With the public that I deal with, I am also very transparent about what I do and how I do it. For the most part, 99.99% of them respect me.

Their are two reasons for my transparency. First, it's the right thing to do. They are taxpayers, pay my salary and have every right to know how I may be affecting their life. Second, I am required to be transparent. There are some things that are privileged information but for the most part, I'm open with them.

Let me go down a rabbit trail and come back quickly. Every scrap of paperwork that they fill out, they have a right to get a copy if they wish. I've never flinched at giving them their copies.

With that said, I've asked FFL dealers for copies of the 4473s. Their response was that they cannot give me a copy cause it's a government form. I've reminded them of the privacy act of 1974 but still haven't won. However, some of them have let me take a picture of the 4473 or permitted me to write down the transaction number.

A friend of mine asked for a copy of the Form 4 that he completed and the sales representative said no. So we raised the issue with one of the store managers who got him his copy.

So I'm raising the bullshit flag on not getting a copy of something with my signature on it.

Okay, I'm off the rabbit trail...

Whenever I have to process or approve an application and have tons of other pressing work to do, I let the folks that I'm dealing with know that I may not get to their stuff in a certain amount of time.

When I tell them that, I tell them to also contact me by phone or e-mail to put a bug in my ear in case I forgot. That sometimes happens and I'm grateful for the reminder. Then I make their stuff a priority.

I'm dealing with other people's careers and livelihoods. I wouldn't like it if someone else is sitting on their ass and farting around while my career and livelihood is affected. It has happened to me before. I didn't like it then and I don't like it now.

There are probably some efficient employees in the Form 4 office and there are probably some idiots who aren't worth 25 cents a week to blow their own nose. We have no way of knowing what the percentage is.

The major disconnect sounds like the FBI "background" check. It's not really a "background" check like they are sending out investigators to ask our neighbors and employers if we are trustworthy. They are checking a database. It should not take very long to check a database on us.

After all, the NICS procedure allows us to pick up our firearm if there is no denial withing three days.

Like you, I don't complain because I knew that there would be about a seven month wait. I also purchased ten suppressors over a 6 month period. There were a couple instances where I purchased more than one suppressor at the same time, on the same date.

I purchased two suppressors on the same day back in June. Then in November, I purchased three at the same time. Then in December I purchased two more on the same day.

I'm raising the bullshit flag if they have to do seven separate background checks for the Form 4s that were filed on the same day. In other words they ought to do one background check for the purchase of the two in June, one for the three in November and on for the two in December.

If the FBI wanted to save work for themselves, that's what they would do.

Anyway, I've been patient so far. I probably won't contact my Senator until after mid or end of April if I don't see anything.

Thanks for being patient and read this much so far. I agree with you that too many phone calls causes an increased workload on the folks processing our Form 4s.

On the other hand, there have been people who have clean records that have had to wait over a year or more before they are approved for the transfer.

Again, for a person with a clean record to wait a year or more for their suppressor is bullshit. I think they have every right to raise the bullshit flag and call their Senator to light a fire under someone's ass to get their rightful property.
 
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Gilly

On Target
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Feb 27, 2009
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I could agree with you to a certain extent. I'm also a government employee and have to process work that is not unlike a Form 4 process. I am also under a time constraint to get my work accomplished.

Again, for a person with a clean record to wait a year or more for their suppressor is bullshit. I think they have every right to raise the bullshit flag and call their Senator to light a fire under someone's ass to get their rightful property.
I agree after exceeding normal wait times, 9-12 months right now, something should be done. The OP is advocating a system of starting down this path of paperwork and phone calls and senators merely weeks after submitting forms and continuing in weekly follow-ups until complete. If the length of the posts on here are any indication of the length of phone calls, voicemails and emails being placed it’s overwhelming for one let alone a group of applicants to start doing it. Patience is a virtue and it will go a long way to speeding up all of our applications. Every 3-5 minute phone call or email is 3-5 minutes not spent processing. Go shoot rather than worrying about your 3-6 month old form 4 app.
 

Chrisp

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Mar 24, 2019
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Interesting read for sure!
I am new to the forum and suppressors, plan on buying any day now. Currently looking at the Omega 300, way too many choices at the moment (good thing).
 

Longshot231

Gunny Sergeant
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Mar 8, 2018
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I agree after exceeding normal wait times, 9-12 months right now, something should be done. The OP is advocating a system of starting down this path of paperwork and phone calls and senators merely weeks after submitting forms and continuing in weekly follow-ups until complete. If the length of the posts on here are any indication of the length of phone calls, voicemails and emails being placed it’s overwhelming for one let alone a group of applicants to start doing it. Patience is a virtue and it will go a long way to speeding up all of our applications. Every 3-5 minute phone call or email is 3-5 minutes not spent processing. Go shoot rather than worrying about your 3-6 month old form 4 app.
Constantly pestering a bureaucrat is not good. However, the OP has given us a lot of good information to act upon if the wait time goes beyond the norm.

I'm grateful for the information. Excellent job and kudos to the OP for helping us out. My only caution in this matter is constantly pestering someone before the (albeit broken) system has had a chance to work.
 
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gunman_7

Sergeant
Belligerents
Dec 10, 2006
705
13
22
I disagree. The system has had YEARS to work and it's still laying face down in the pool.

Enough people keep calling and complaining and things will be addressed, just to what degree is the question, and a lot of that will determine on the amount of calling and complaining. The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and dammit, I need a lot of grease!
 

mustang-cars

Private
Belligerents
Jul 6, 2017
232
78
34
I’ve already been through all of the releases and forms you need to fill out to have your Senator’s (Montana) office look into the issue. It took several weeks of back and forth with the paperwork before they could even look into it. All in before I got an answer from my Republican Senators office was about 5 weeks. The ATF sent this letter (see pic). I’m still waiting. Called today and they won’t even tell you if it’s in FBI background check anymore. All they can say now is “pending, approved, denied”. That’s it. Still waiting. Been a year since check was cashed. I tried to be nice to the guy and ask if there was anything I could do and he said a one year plus wait time is normal right now.
 

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supercorndogs

Ham Fisted Gorilla
Belligerents
Feb 17, 2014
3,460
1,695
219
Colorado
I disagree. The system has had YEARS to work and it's still laying face down in the pool.

Enough people keep calling and complaining and things will be addressed, just to what degree is the question, and a lot of that will determine on the amount of calling and complaining. The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and dammit, I need a lot of grease!
Thats how private sector business works. The government doesnt give a fuck if you squeal.
 
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RMB

Private
Minuteman
Mar 18, 2019
14
21
6
Before I started pestering/poking/prodding the 'system' I was at 300 days....My SOT told me to keep waiting. Which I did for anther 30 days...then I started my calls/emails/correspondence. I was at over 400 days all in on this trust application. Check cashed 1/30/2018, Stamp in hand 3/11/2019. (I have a trip to South Dakota in late April.)

As far as my respect for the NFA employees, they are really very good to work with. It is the system that is broken. These people can only work with the system in place....they know the system is "face down in the pool' as well as we know it. In these days of "amazon", package tracking etc...there has go to be a better system that is much more efficient (in both time to complete and net revenues) .....But for now it is what it is. The real issue is we have no political power...such a small part of the overall industry that is concerned with other Second Amendment Rights that this is a battle that is not worth spending political capital on.

And, after all my bitching. let me state....I just bought another one....this time once my application is 60 days over the NFA published 'average' wait times....I will begin to start asking questions.....

let's face it that the system is really slow...I was trying to help the people that were getting screwed.
 

Slu54

Private
Belligerents
Apr 28, 2007
49
10
12
Pittsburgh, PA
I think this is the right approach.

I've reached out to both congressman and senator at this point.

I've spoken to the inspector on my oldest one, she seemed like a nice enough person who would return my phone calls.
 

Almonz

Sergeant of the Hide
Belligerents
Minuteman
Apr 6, 2019
101
23
22
IA
Thank you for the detailed write up. It sucks we even have to go through all this to own NFA items but such is life. I wish they'd get efile form 4s going soon!