First thoughts: Kriss Defiance (DMK22)

Cofercr

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I’ve shot for years and as many have, got into long range shooting. In the past 25 years everything I shot was only about accuracy and shot exclusively from bench or bipod. All good except my guns ended up between 10-15 lbs. in the past year my love of shooting rimfire was rekindled with the purchase of my Vudoo but again another tank. I had a skunk outside screwing with my dogs so I grabbed my bull barreled 10-22. Long story short I couldn’t get a bullet close enough to the skunk to even scare him good so decided time to practice off hand basics again.

After all my research I decided on the DMK22 and since little has been posted about it I would share. First for the optic I went with the Vortex spitfire II 3x. I have turned into such a power and glass hooker that this was hard to do but my goal was light off hand shooting. I took the rifle out yesterday and shot a brick of CCI standards. I was pleasantly surprised with accuracy being around half inch at 25 yards and I had absolutely zero function issues. Don’t judge the gun by those groups yet!! Trigger was about 6lbs with a ton of take up. In stalled a Wilson Combat TTU trigger so that should help. I have tons of ammo from my Vudoo testing so I expect better however my optic is limiting as well. I did shoot about 200 rounds off hand which was the whole purpose of this rifle. Started off horrible and quit at just bad 😜. Any way the gun is a blast to shoot and functions just as an AR platform. Worth the look!
 

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kl3309

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Too damn close to D.C.
Got one when they first became available (early 2018?), been through 6 firing pins and one bolt catch. Beveling the firing pin head seems to be the fix but it'll then mushroom out with use and you get light strikes (and you'll get light strikes anyway with the stock firing pin spring and an aftermarket trigger). Shame 'cause I actually liked shooting it. I'm going to replace the upper with a build using the CMMG bolt.

They're popular in the UK and that's where all the aftermarket firing pins were being made and sold. Do you have a US source?

M&P 15-22 mags with these (https://arcatch22.com/products/s-w-15-22-magazine-adapter-stick-on) work better than the Kriss mags.
 

Cofercr

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Got one when they first became available (early 2018?), been through 6 firing pins and one bolt catch. Beveling the firing pin head seems to be the fix but it'll then mushroom out with use and you get light strikes (and you'll get light strikes anyway with the stock firing pin spring and an aftermarket trigger). Shame 'cause I actually liked shooting it. I'm going to replace the upper with a build using the CMMG bolt.

They're popular in the UK and that's where all the aftermarket firing pins are sold. Do you have a US source?

M&P 15-22 mags with these (https://arcatch22.com/products/s-w-15-22-magazine-adapter-stick-on) work better than the Kriss mags.
No was looking at the ones from across the pond. Did you dry fire? How many rounds till it broke? I went specifically with the Wilson Combat trigger because it has a lighter trigger but supposedly strikes hard. Guess time will tell. I called Kriss USA they don’t offer anything but stock pin.
 

Cofercr

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No was looking at the ones from across the pond. Did you dry fire? How many rounds till it broke? I went specifically with the Wilson Combat trigger because it has a lighter trigger but supposedly strikes hard. Guess time will tell. I called Kriss USA they don’t offer anything but stock pin.
What type ammo do you use most?
 

carbonbased

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Wow, what’s going on with those firing pins?! A bad design or something else?
 

kl3309

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No dry fire.

I've had firing pins break in as few as 75 rds. The one that I ground the head on went about 2000 rds. but it's giving really soft hits so either I mod another one (and hope it doesn't break right away) or scrap it and do the CMMG build. (Got some new firing pins from Kriss just a few weeks ago, maybe the latest batch are better metalurgy. Really 'bout had it with the thing though.)

Was shooting CCI Standard when it was a suppressed DMRish thing, CCI Blazer now that's it's back to being a carbine.
 
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cjt50

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I am breaking firing pins as well, about every 4000 rounds and I'm on my 4th. Never dry fired and only used Federal and CCI ammo in it. I was also using 15-22 mag in my DMK using the magwell adapter from ARcatch 22. Last round bolt hold open was almost 100%.

Since I found the Tippmann M4-22 22lr series of rifles my DMK and 15-22's are getting pushed further back in the safe.
 
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Cofercr

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What and or where are the pins breaking? Everyone breaking pins have factory trigger? Are newer firing pins any better?
 

Lawless

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Not being negative in any way, but what does this feature or do that the SW15-22 doesn’t?
 

kl3309

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M&P 15-22 locks back on the bolt catch as well.

The big draw for me was that the Kriss was touted as being able to take 10-22 barrels, which it can, but you'll have to dimple the shank on the breach end to secure the barrel extension.

The Kriss would be more easily customizable with you being able to swap out more parts (handguards, buffer tube) with a centerfire AR. Still wouldn't be able to use the lower for CF because the passage for the buffer tube is blanked off.

If you tend to muscle-fuck the rifle to POA, then the M&P would be more prone to having the action flex. If it's just a plinker, M&P is the better value hands down.
 

Lawless

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All metal, bolt locks back on last round via catch not on the magazine. Bolt forward works along with working bolt assist. Mil spec.
MP locks on catch too like said below but I see the draw of metal. I had never heard of it, thanks for the reply.

M&P 15-22 locks back on the bolt catch as well.

The big draw for me was that the Kriss was touted as being able to take 10-22 barrels, which it can, but you'll have to dimple the shank on the breach end to secure the barrel extension.

The Kriss would be more easily customizable with you being able to swap out more parts (handguards, buffer tube) with a centerfire AR. Still wouldn't be able to use the lower for CF because the passage for the buffer tube is blanked off.

If you tend to muscle-fuck the rifle to POA, then the M&P would be more prone to having the action flex. If it's just a plinker, M&P is the better value hands down.
I haven’t swapped rails on my 15-22 to a real one but I do have the barrel wrench. There are barrel nuts to allow aluminum rails. You’re right that the barrel can flex but for drills on close steel it has not been an issue. I put a VQ extractor in it and checked the bolt with the recall tool but it has never choked on Federal Bulk and even runs 40g subs 100% but I havent shot nearly as many of them through it.

I also put in a CMC 3.5lb flat trigger and a MS4 sling. Main use is drills and saving me ammo money.



Does the Kriss allow any AR trigger? Is the weight similar to a standard carbine?

My only gripe with the SW is it is so light that when I switch back to centerfire it takes a minute to get accustomed.
 

kl3309

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MP locks on catch too like said below but I see the draw of metal. I had never heard of it, thanks for the reply.



I haven’t swapped rails on my 15-22 to a real one but I do have the barrel wrench. There are barrel nuts to allow aluminum rails. You’re right that the barrel can flex but for drills on close steel it has not been an issue. I put a VQ extractor in it and checked the bolt with the recall tool but it has never choked on Federal Bulk and even runs 40g subs 100% but I havent shot nearly as many of them through it.

I also put in a CMC 3.5lb flat trigger and a MS4 sling. Main use is drills and saving me ammo money.



Does the Kriss allow any AR trigger? Is the weight similar to a standard carbine?

My only gripe with the SW is it is so light that when I switch back to centerfire it takes a minute to get accustomed.
I did the handguard swap on my M&P using the Tacticool 22 adapter. With a Midwest Industries Gen 3 handuard, there is the tiniest of gaps betwen the handguard and receiver.

The Kriss is a PITA when it comes to aftermarket triggers. Most all will give light strikes and I think this has more to do with the firing pin design (shallow head protrusion and limited travel) and firing pin spring weight than it does with the triggers.

Kriss is about 7 lbs. Put some fine sand (Brownells/Sinclair heavy sand) in your M&P "buffer" tube. I run a vertical grip up front with some tungsten weights in it.
 

Lawless

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I did the handguard swap on my M&P using the Tacticool 22 adapter. With a Midwest Industries Gen 3 handuard, there is the tiniest of gaps betwen the handguard and receiver.

The Kriss is a PITA when it comes to aftermarket triggers. Most all will give light strikes and I think this has more to do with the firing pin design (shallow head protrusion and limited travel) and firing pin spring weight than it does with the triggers.

Kriss is about 7 lbs. Put some fine sand (Brownells/Sinclair heavy sand) in your M&P "buffer" tube. I run a vertical grip up front with some tungsten weights in it.
Hadnt thought about weighting the tube. I keep a Grip-Pod on it for the weight up front. I bet one of the storage type forward grips with weight may be a good answer. I am about to swap the Romeo5 for a LPVO so that’ll add a little weight.
 

Cofercr

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MP locks on catch too like said below but I see the draw of metal. I had never heard of it, thanks for the reply.



I haven’t swapped rails on my 15-22 to a real one but I do have the barrel wrench. There are barrel nuts to allow aluminum rails. You’re right that the barrel can flex but for drills on close steel it has not been an issue. I put a VQ extractor in it and checked the bolt with the recall tool but it has never choked on Federal Bulk and even runs 40g subs 100% but I havent shot nearly as many of them through it.

I also put in a CMC 3.5lb flat trigger and a MS4 sling. Main use is drills and saving me ammo money.



Does the Kriss allow any AR trigger? Is the weight similar to a standard carbine?

My only gripe with the SW is it is so light that when I switch back to centerfire it takes a minute to get accustomed.
Very close to same weight. Kriss states it can take any AR trigger. Many are stating soft strikes on aftermarket triggers. As I stated earlier I put a Wilson Combat TTU trigger in two days ago but haven’t had an opportunity to shoot it. My first 500 rounds with total stock rifle was flawless.
 
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Hellbender

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The CMMG FP breaks with regularity at around 1200 rounds on my 4 examples (same place as the above pic shows) CMMG is good about warranty, and has replaced about 6 or 7 for me,
I have several different triggers (Giessele, RRA, mil spec and a Franklin Binary) and all are about the same.
 

Cofercr

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Took my DK22 out again today after installing the Wilson Combat TTU trigger. I had two light strikes on my first 15 rounds of RWS premium rifle match. I thought I had made a mistake installing the trigger. However, I shot several magazines of numerous Ely and SK ammo along with CCI sv with no other issues. It was 35 degrees when I started which may have had a bit to blame as I run my guns pretty wet. I ran 400 rounds with the majority being CCI. I now have 900 rounds through the gun and so far no firing pin issue.

Trigger breaks at 3.8 lbs (average of 5 tests). This rifle is a blast to shoot and is slowly helping me get back into decent off hand form.
 

rick137

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I am breaking firing pins as well, about every 4000 rounds and I'm on my 4th. Never dry fired and only used Federal and CCI ammo in it. I was also using 15-22 mag in my DMK using the magwell adapter from ARcatch 22. Last round bolt hold open was almost 100%.

Since I found the Tippmann M4-22 22lr series of rifles my DMK and 15-22's are getting pushed further back in the safe.
Thanks for the intel. Will sell my MP15-22 and buy a Tippmann M4-22. I continue to be amazed at the "hidden products" that exist. When you state you are breaking firing pins every 4000 rounds, does that refer to the Tippmann?

Rick
 

cjt50

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My DMK was breaking at an average of 4000. I have a Tippmann that just past 40k and still on original firing pin and spring.
 
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AirGunShawn

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Hi Guys,
I just got my DMK and tried to shoot SK yellow and had nothing but feed issues. Just before it got got dark I tried some Federal auto match and it worked great. The SK has a velocity of 1040 fps and the auto match has a velocity of 1200 fps.

So my query is, what kind of ammo are you guys using that feeds flawlessly and gets the best accuracy?
 

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WAsquirrelsniper

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I had heard that they are somewhat ammo picky even with the bentz chamber. I was going to get one to compare to my 15-22 but not based on the reviews Ive read.

Please keep us updated on yours!
 

AirGunShawn

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I will be checking out ammo types and magazines. I just got a Black dog today to try.
I would also recommend this charging handle latch for any AR type gun. It extends a nice amount and it has rounded
edges to relieve finger bites. It is from Brownells for about 14.00

100-015-922WB AR15/M16 Charging Handle Latch

I put my silencer and the standard butt stock back on my Kriss and I like the proportion's that the silencer gives her.
I like all of the Magpul stuff better than the factory stuff. I will be testing some different magazines starting today, Jan first. My first test will be Blackdog mags.

So far I have been surprised by the open sights. They are much nicer than the Magpul style poly sights.

Has anybody bought a Titanium firing pin yet? Maybe from Valmont Firearms in the UK. See Logo below.
EDIT: I just got a reply from Valmont Firearms about their Titanium pin. It's cost is 55 GBP or 72.60 USD. WoW!
$19.80 of that is shipping.... btw..... Having bought from the UK a bunch I can tell you that the Royal mail is very slow.

Shawn
 

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AirGunShawn

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Got one when they first became available (early 2018?), been through 6 firing pins and one bolt catch. Beveling the firing pin head seems to be the fix but it'll then mushroom out with use and you get light strikes (and you'll get light strikes anyway with the stock firing pin spring and an aftermarket trigger). Shame 'cause I actually liked shooting it. I'm going to replace the upper with a build using the CMMG bolt.

They're popular in the UK and that's where all the aftermarket firing pins were being made and sold. Do you have a US source?

M&P 15-22 mags with these (https://arcatch22.com/products/s-w-15-22-magazine-adapter-stick-on) work better than the Kriss mags.
Hello Glocks suck,
Did you happen to get a photo of your broken Kriss bolt catch? Do you have any idea of how or why it broke. It looks like it takes very little load.
I'm having feeding issues and am trying different ammo. Have you found some that works well?

Thanks so much
Shawn
 

Cofercr

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Hi Guys,
I just got my DMK and tried to shoot SK yellow and had nothing but feed issues. Just before it got got dark I tried some Federal auto match and it worked great. The SK has a velocity of 1040 fps and the auto match has a velocity of 1200 fps.

So my query is, what kind of ammo are you guys using that feeds flawlessly and gets the best accuracy?
I have had no issues with SK plus and CCI standard velocity. Just a side note: I cleaned my gun before I shot it and it took over an hour to clean the barrel and chamber. There was this hard reddish goop everywhere. I finally did it like a black powder gun and cleaned it with hot soapy water in the tub. And in the chamber area I even had to use a stainless steel brush. I know rough on gun but this thing was nasty. So when I did shoot it I had zero issues.
 

AirGunShawn

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I have had no issues with SK plus and CCI standard velocity. Just a side note: I cleaned my gun before I shot it and it took over an hour to clean the barrel and chamber. There was this hard reddish goop everywhere. I finally did it like a black powder gun and cleaned it with hot soapy water in the tub. And in the chamber area I even had to use a stainless steel brush. I know rough on gun but this thing was nasty. So when I did shoot it I had zero issues.
Thanks for your input. She looks clean but I will scrub her out tomorrow. Years ago I had a new Beretta that looked clean but it had failures as well. A cleaning helped it as well. I don't need to use SK but I have had great success with it thus far. I spoke with the factory today and they said that its minimum vel is 1070 fps ammo. As I recall, SK red does 1040 fps. Luckily I have lots of ammo to have fun with.
 

Cofercr

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Thanks for your input. She looks clean but I will scrub her out tomorrow. Years ago I had a new Beretta that looked clean but it had failures as well. A cleaning helped it as well. I don't need to use SK but I have had great success with it thus far. I spoke with the factory today and they said that its minimum vel is 1070 fps ammo. As I recall, SK red does 1040 fps. Luckily I have lots of ammo to have fun with.
Something to try; load a magazine with CCI standards and put a drop of good gun oil on the case of the first round. Shoot it and do the same thing again then load normal and see if that helps. I have a Smith 41 that I do this with for the first 2 mags then I can get through a match with no issues. One thing I noticed with rely and the DK is if I run it until it gets hot clear it to cool down. If I leave a round in it and it cools that round may stick. Good luck.
 

AirGunShawn

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Something to try; load a magazine with CCI standards and put a drop of good gun oil on the case of the first round. Shoot it and do the same thing again then load normal and see if that helps. I have a Smith 41 that I do this with for the first 2 mags then I can get through a match with no issues. One thing I noticed with rely and the DK is if I run it until it gets hot clear it to cool down. If I leave a round in it and it cools that round may stick. Good luck.
Hello Cofercr,
In your original post you noted that the trigger was heavy and had lots of take up. You were not kidding!
I still feel that the Kriss has lots of potential. Just some simple issues to work out. The first will be the firing pin spring rate.
I'm going to get a weaker one so that the trigger hammer does not need to overcome that during it's firing cycle. I should have a new firing pin in hand in a couple of days as well. I will compare it to the existing one. I would like to give it a little more travel to reduce lite strikes with my aftermarket trigger. I have a Giselle in my Magpul lower and it is a joy to use. I am going to try and avoid it but, If I have to I will try a Hiperfire trigger. With it's coil spring design and over center toggle, that should increase the hammer force as well. Hiperfire claims that their design increase's hammer force by 30%. It also has a satisfaction guarantee as well so I may test one in any case.

So far the only real problem that I have is a feeding issue.

Chat soon
Shawn
 

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Cofercr

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Hello Cofercr,
In your original post you noted that the trigger was heavy and had lots of take up. You were not kidding!
I still feel that the Kriss has lots of potential. Just some simple issues to work out. The first will be the firing pin spring rate.
I'm going to get a weaker one so that the trigger hammer does not need to overcome that during it's firing cycle. I should have a new firing pin in hand in a couple of days as well. I will compare it to the existing one. I would like to give it a little more travel to reduce lite strikes with my aftermarket trigger. I have a Giselle in my Magpul lower and it is a joy to use. I am going to try and avoid it but, If I have to I will try a Hiperfire trigger. With it's coil spring design and over center toggle, that should increase the hammer force as well. Hiperfire claims that their design increase's hammer force by 30%. It also has a satisfaction guarantee as well so I may test one in any case.

So far the only real problem that I have is a feeding issue.

Chat soon
Shawn
I have the Wilson combat TTU (non 3 gun) trigger. RWS premium rifle match has been the only ammo that didn’t go bang. Zero issues with CCI standard and both red and yellow SK. My trigger has zero travel and averages 3.80 lbs. this works well for me.
 

AirGunShawn

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I have the Wilson combat TTU (non 3 gun) trigger. RWS premium rifle match has been the only ammo that didn’t go bang. Zero issues with CCI standard and both red and yellow SK. My trigger has zero travel and averages 3.80 lbs. this works well for me.
Hello Co,
I shot the Kriss today and had a lot of feeding issues. I tried a number of different ammo types and it did not seem to help much and nor did the Black Dog magazine. I have a feed issue for sure. It also "seems" that I have a fair amount of lite strikes. I say seems because I think the real problem is that the bolt is not going to it's full forward position. When I pull the magazine, recock the gun there is nearly always a cartridge in the chamber and it does fire just fine.
The fact that I can recock the gun without ejecting the live cartridge indicates to me that the extractor is not engaging the case base.
So I don't feel that it is actually a lite strike issue from the trigger at all. When she does cycle she is really a nice gun to shoot. As far as the bolt not fully seating in it forward position, I have removed the bolt latch to see if that will help. Removing it completely was a quicker test than cutting the latch spring. I have also changed the lubrication to a very lite, low drag lube. I feel like the bolts failure to seat properly will have a fairly simple solution.

I'm still giving the feed issue some more thought before I do anything about it. My first attempt to fix it will be things like polishing the feed ram and removing any sharp edges. I wont do anything that will very noticeable because I don't want to void its warranty. I can see on all of the mis-fed cartridges that the slug has been caught on a sharp edge and the cartridge is bent at the case/slug interface. I feel confident that I will be able to resolve these issues and she will be a fine gun to shoot.

She is actually very capable of shooting one hole groups at 25 yards so I don't think that she will ever need a new bbl.
My stock trigger was 5 lb. 13 oz. with a god awful amount of travel.

I hope to have better news very soon
 

AirGunShawn

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Ok.... my first attempt to resolve my Kriss issues.... Someone told me that they cleaned their Kriss like they cleaned their black powder guns, in the sink with Dawn dishwashing soap. I did that and it worked really well. I then sanded/polished my firing pin so that it moved freely in it's bore. It had more resistance than I thought it should. I also replaced the factory spring that was about 25lbs per inch and .025" wire diameter with one that is 9.6lbs. per inch and .018" wire diameter. I happen to have some .014" wire springs to try just in case.
I was shocked at the spring rate of the factory spring as it seemed really heavy.

I also used a very light coating of Moly lube followed with some EEZOX lube which is very thin. Temporarily I have removed the charging handle latch as I am trying to figure out what is keeping the bolt from closing completely all of the time. My Kriss seems silky smooth now both assembled and as sub assemblies.

I also have my Magpul lower on the Kriss upper that has a Geisselle SSP trigger rated at 2.0 lbs. The Kriss is a totally different gun with a premium trigger in her. I also removed the Kriss "bolt catch" and put it in my Magpul lower and it functions perfectly. As soon as I can cut some threads from a new buffer tube, all of these changes and magpul parts will end up in the Kriss lower.

Tomorrow I will test it all out with some Wolf match target ( 1050 fps ) which seems to work well.
I spoke with Kriss regarding the feed issue and they said it will be a 4/8 week turn around.

I got my Kriss Pic rail today and it is aluminum and is of good quality.

Wish me luck

EDIT: I highly recommend a bore guide like a Possum Hollow (260-377-9715) I happen to have one for my .223. It is a number 19 and it works great. It saves lots of time, it's easier and allows me to do a better job cleaning.
 

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AirGunShawn

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Tried Wolf (1050 fps) ammo today and my Kriss doesn't care for it. It does however like Eley club ( 1085 fps ) and
SK Long range match ( 1106 fps ). It appears as though all I need to address is the bolt catch. It is sticking in the down position when I have it in my Magpul lower.

I will start doing accuracy testing as soon as the weather clears. I would like to note that I would like to stick with sub sonic ammo to keep the noise down. Any Kriss may work fine with high velocity ammunition.
 
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AirGunShawn

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Anybody with a Kriss find it's favorite ammunition? My feed issue is nearly resolved but my Kriss is not accurate with HV ammo.
I have been shooting the Kriss without a bolt latch and it works better for me being able to use the right or left side to charge the rifle.
 

AirGunShawn

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Still working on my DMK. I have the feed issue worked out and she now eats SK ammo and the like. No more does she need HV ammo to function. I bought an adjustable JP trigger because my Geissele SSA wont work. Temporarily I have taken the safety out so that it does not interfere with the trigger. The trigger is still a heavy 3 lbs. but very short. I will get back to working with my SSA at a later date. Sadly her accuracy still sucks even at 25 yards. I would prefer to not install a KIDD bbl. but I will probably try that as a last resort. All of the Magpul stuff works and makes her more fun to shoot.

The weather is about to break and I will spend more time with her soon. She is the only semi auto that I own and she would be a lot of fun if she were accurate. Her magazines are a pleasure to load. She is easy to clean which is good because she gets filthy quickly. I bought Yankee Hill pull pins but they are not really necessary.

Has anybody had better luck than I ?? Anyone with any ideas?

Shawn
 

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Cofercr

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Cache, Oklahoma
Still working on my DMK. I have the feed issue worked out and she now eats SK ammo and the like. No more does she need HV ammo to function. I bought an adjustable JP trigger because my Geissele SSA wont work. Temporarily I have taken the safety out so that it does not interfere with the trigger. The trigger is still a heavy 3 lbs. but very short. I will get back to working with my SSA at a later date. Sadly her accuracy still sucks even at 25 yards. I would prefer to not install a KIDD bbl. but I will probably try that as a last resort. All of the Magpul stuff works and makes her more fun to shoot.

The weather is about to break and I will spend more time with her soon. She is the only semi auto that I own and she would be a lot of fun if she were accurate. Her magazines are a pleasure to load. She is easy to clean which is good because she gets filthy quickly. I bought Yankee Hill pull pins but they are not really necessary.

Has anybody had better luck than I ?? Anyone with any ideas?

Shawn
I have several earlier posts on my DMK. As of now have around 7000 rounds through it. Original firing pin still going strong. As I stated previous my sight isn’t designed for super accuracy but I shoot one inch groups at 50 USA with SK plus on bipod and rear bags. CCI Svc about the same. I have never had any feeding issues.
 

AirGunShawn

Sergeant of the Hide
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Apr 2, 2019
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I bought a spare FP just in case but thus far have not needed it. I have a good scope on her but accuracy is still poor.
I will go back to CCI SV. I will try another scope as well.
 

panhndl

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Apr 10, 2009
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Guymon, OK
www.hitchok.com
To OP’s original purpose, I had the same problem and tackled it differently. I now have a suppressed Browning Buckmark with a TacSol barrel and suppressor using a small red dot sight. Subsonic ammo keeps the sound super quiet and the red dot works in all conditions. I can’t shoot offhand tiny little groups but it works well for my needs.