Fighting your shooting bags. ELR

BoltActionBrotherhood

The Sender
Minuteman
Jan 17, 2019
66
23
12
NorCal
Hey Fellas, I was hoping to hear some opinions, thoughts and solutions for a problem I face and I’m sure many others do as well.
When shooting prone I always find myself fighting my rear bags. I tend to need to use a larger bag like the big green Caldwell type bags to get enough height in the rear of the bag and find myself straining and hugging/squeezing the shit out of the bag to maintain a steady position.
I know I need to have as little muscle tension as possibe and would prefer to squeeze the bag much less than I am currently doing.
I am currently using mdt buttstock with a bag rider and a bipod that puts me about 9 inches off the ground at its lowest setting (11 inches wide) and a Fclass adjustable bipod is not an option.
What are you guys using for your rear bag and what have you done to alleviate these issues? I am on the verge of figuring out how to machine my own adjustable height bag rider lol.
your input is greatly appreciated.
-Cory
 

kriller134

Private
Online Training Access
Belligerents
Jul 9, 2017
588
533
99
orange county, ca
I just took a class last weekend and I was fighting my rear bag pretty much all weekend. My instructor said to try the game changer and it immediately shrunk my groups, so that’s what I’m using now.
 

BoltActionBrotherhood

The Sender
Minuteman
Jan 17, 2019
66
23
12
NorCal
I just took a class last weekend and I was fighting my rear bag pretty much all weekend. My instructor said to try the game changer and it immediately shrunk my groups, so that’s what I’m using now.
I just came a across the PURG ELR bag.... that is looking nice, not sure if it is tall enough though.
mill check out the game changer as well!
 

lash

Swamp Rat
Online Training Access
Belligerents
Sep 28, 2012
5,303
4,380
219
61
Central Florida
Those big green Caldwell bags are for bench shooters. They are much too stiff and not made for the prone shooting you are doing. Get a game changer and be done. Also, why such a tall bipod? It sounds from here as if you are trying to play an expensive game with the wrong low budget tools..

Also, you posted this in the ELR section, which usually implies that you are shooting in excess of 1000 yards. Based on your question, I’m doubting that is the case.

Bottom line. Get the right tools for the job and you’ll be much better and happier.
 

TripleBull

This one goes to 11
Belligerents
Feb 13, 2017
2,811
6,057
219
Sunny Colorado
Good advice above. Part of the solution is fitting into the firing position with proper body & head position. If the area you are shooting prone from is flat and uniform, and the target is about the same elevation, you can find a bipod height and rear bag that works for you without much of a problem. But once you transition to less planar and flat firing positions with targets at significantly different elevations, something will have to change. Likewise, shooting long distance for the gun/cartridge can push you to compensate for a large drop, lifting the muzzle significantly. If you are straining to get lined up with the optical axis of the scope, you're not in the best position, so figure out what needs to change to get into better alignment.
 
  • Like
Reactions: lash

JB.IC

Jackass of the Hide
Belligerents
Minuteman
Jan 25, 2019
306
138
49
This is literally why our company started. Try one of our bags. If you get it sized right you’ll never go back. And if you don’t get it sized right we will work with you until it is sized right.
PrecisionUndergroundRifleGear.com
your bags look pretty small.
I don’t personally like using either of my game changers as rear bags but they appear to be larger than your rear bags.
 

Steel head

Feral kitten
Belligerents
Aug 3, 2014
4,651
5,342
219
Washington
PU bags are awesome
A couple of karate chops to set the shape and you GTG.

why are you running your setup so high up OP?
I tend to run my setup higher than most and use a small bag when shooting up or flat and a slightly bigger bag when shooting down or without a bag rider.
 

Alabusa

Understudy
Online Training Access
Belligerents
Minuteman
Jan 1, 2018
1,474
2,832
119
48
Muscle Shoals, Alabama
This is literally why our company started. Try one of our bags. If you get it sized right you’ll never go back. And if you don’t get it sized right we will work with you until it is sized right.
PrecisionUndergroundRifleGear.com

These guys make the best bags to be had. I have the 3d ELR bag and will never use anything else.

Bench....
20191218_131553.jpg
Prone....
20191105_100206.jpg
 

BoltActionBrotherhood

The Sender
Minuteman
Jan 17, 2019
66
23
12
NorCal
Those big green Caldwell bags are for bench shooters. They are much too stiff and not made for the prone shooting you are doing. Get a game changer and be done. Also, why such a tall bipod? It sounds from here as if you are trying to play an expensive game with the wrong low budget tools..

Also, you posted this in the ELR section, which usually implies that you are shooting in excess of 1000 yards. Based on your question, I’m doubting that is the case.

Bottom line. Get the right tools for the job and you’ll be much better and happier.
Don’t be too quick to assume, we have many different bags, I just used the Caldwell as and example because everyone knows what they look like. We shoot 2000 yards every other week.
 

BoltActionBrotherhood

The Sender
Minuteman
Jan 17, 2019
66
23
12
NorCal
Good advice above. Part of the solution is fitting into the firing position with proper body & head position. If the area you are shooting prone from is flat and uniform, and the target is about the same elevation, you can find a bipod height and rear bag that works for you without much of a problem. But once you transition to less planar and flat firing positions with targets at significantly different elevations, something will have to change. Likewise, shooting long distance for the gun/cartridge can push you to compensate for a large drop, lifting the muzzle significantly. If you are straining to get lined up with the optical axis of the scope, you're not in the best position, so figure out what needs to change to get into better alignment.
Very true, our main shooting spot is not even at all and on quite an angle.
 

Longshot231

Major Hide Member
Belligerents
Minuteman
Mar 8, 2018
1,761
6,162
119
I use the squishy rear bag from Armageddon Gear. It was introduced to a few friends who got their own after I bitched at them from borrowing mine too much at the range.

I'd take a break from shooting and go back to my position only to find the squishy bag missing. I'd look around and find that one of my friends had borrowed it.

After I complained to them about getting their own, they finally did. That's how good that thing is.

https://www.armageddongear.com/Squishy-Rear-Bag_p_120.html
 

BoltActionBrotherhood

The Sender
Minuteman
Jan 17, 2019
66
23
12
NorCal
PU bags are awesome
A couple of karate chops to set the shape and you GTG.

why are you running your setup so high up OP?
I tend to run my setup higher than most and use a small bag when shooting up or flat and a slightly bigger bag when shooting down or without a bag rider.
Well our primary shooting spot has a decent angle to it and we are shooting up a hill, and our main target is set up at 2000 yards, so I tend to find I am needing to adjust my bipod up that high to get on target. which is probably the main reason I am running into issues.
 

Steel head

Feral kitten
Belligerents
Aug 3, 2014
4,651
5,342
219
Washington
I use the squishy rear bag from Armageddon Gear. It was introduced to a few friends who got their own after I bitched at them from borrowing mine too much at the range.

I'd take a break from shooting and go back to my position only to find the squishy bag missing. I'd look around and find that one of my friends had borrowed it.

After I complained to them about getting their own, they finally did. That's how good that thing is.

https://www.armageddongear.com/Squishy-Rear-Bag_p_120.html
I actually made one.
when I got my first PU I realized I preferred it.
 

lash

Swamp Rat
Online Training Access
Belligerents
Sep 28, 2012
5,303
4,380
219
61
Central Florida
Don’t be too quick to assume, we have many different bags, I just used the Caldwell as and example because everyone knows what they look like. We shoot 2000 yards every other week.
Yes, well remember that all anyone on the internet has to go on is the information provided in your post. Provide more and better info and you get better answers, always. ;) :cool:
 

Precision Underground

Rifle Gear
Commercial Supporter
Belligerents
Jun 21, 2017
1,987
1,597
119
Tallahassee, FL
your bags look pretty small.
I don’t personally like using either of my game changers as rear bags but they appear to be larger than your rear bags.
We have small one and bigger ones and can make one any size you want. Are you looking for big for height under the stock or big for stability?
 

acudaowner

Major Hide Member
Belligerents
Minuteman
Dec 26, 2018
1,964
1,126
119
I just wish more bags had zippers without me having to sow them in , so I could adjust the amount of fill to suit my needs . Out of 9 bags most of which are over 60.00 some cost 125. + I have purchased only 1 has a zipper for just that reason to make it adjustable but either way flat or on the side or up and down it either is too high too low or mushy when i need it firmer or flat out too hard to squeeze to be useful the lab jacks are the only in between option I have see so far unless I need it lower than 1 1/2 inch then i just raise the bipod up a bit and raise the lab jack , its down fall to me is it adds movement . Its lower price at 9.99 some fancier ones much more I like , but I do love having the micro adjustment , its ability to move very small precise amounts when I need it to have helped a lot we added a low bag rider to the top and tiny spikes to the bottem to help keep it in place . I still want to try them shooting further out before stating I like them more than bags think if I do get another bag I would like to try the pint sized game changer its 90 + something but it looks nice .
 

flyer

Unicorn hunter
Belligerents
Minuteman
Apr 25, 2018
2,167
1,235
119
I just received a cheap Chinese made rear bag that I had on backorder with Brownells. It has zippers on the ears and the base for adjusting fill. It seems to be all leather and pretty nice. I think I paid less than $30 for it.
 

Yerman

Private
Belligerents
Jun 15, 2013
482
127
49
Palmdale, CA
1.) I’d get a better bipod that allows you to get lower to the ground and have a lot of adjustability. Accu-tac and Atlas are good choices

2.) In my opinion, a stiff bag is necessary to reduce vertical stringing at ELR ranges because it helps prevent the rear of the rifle from dropping. I like these.

This is also an option. I have a buddy that uses one and likes it.
 

flyer

Unicorn hunter
Belligerents
Minuteman
Apr 25, 2018
2,167
1,235
119
The cheap bag I got was a Hyskore. The fill is pretty light and not stiff. I haven't opened it to see exactly what it is but with the zippers it shouldn't be hard to change.

The exterior is nice and smooth, it should ride pretty well if the fill is right.
 

BoltActionBrotherhood

The Sender
Minuteman
Jan 17, 2019
66
23
12
NorCal
I just wish more bags had zippers without me having to sow them in , so I could adjust the amount of fill to suit my needs . Out of 9 bags most of which are over 60.00 some cost 125. + I have purchased only 1 has a zipper for just that reason to make it adjustable but either way flat or on the side or up and down it either is too high too low or mushy when i need it firmer or flat out too hard to squeeze to be useful the lab jacks are the only in between option I have see so far unless I need it lower than 1 1/2 inch then i just raise the bipod up a bit and raise the lab jack , its down fall to me is it adds movement . Its lower price at 9.99 some fancier ones much more I like , but I do love having the micro adjustment , its ability to move very small precise amounts when I need it to have helped a lot we added a low bag rider to the top and tiny spikes to the bottem to help keep it in place . I still want to try them shooting further out before stating I like them more than bags think if I do get another bag I would like to try the pint sized game changer its 90 + something but it looks nice .
Which lab jack are you using the one I bought was just too big!
 

flyer

Unicorn hunter
Belligerents
Minuteman
Apr 25, 2018
2,167
1,235
119
Lab jacks can be nice and stable or floppy and cheap.

The nice ones I have seen are made for optics (laser positioning and similar) and made from billet aluminum. The cheap ones are made from steel sheet metal.

The problem is a rear rest sized optical quality lab jack costs several hundred dollars or more.
 
  • Like
Reactions: acudaowner

Precision Underground

Rifle Gear
Commercial Supporter
Belligerents
Jun 21, 2017
1,987
1,597
119
Tallahassee, FL
1.) I’d get a better bipod that allows you to get lower to the ground and have a lot of adjustability. Accu-tac and Atlas are good choices

2.) In my opinion, a stiff bag is necessary to reduce vertical stringing at ELR ranges because it helps prevent the rear of the rifle from dropping. I like these.

This is also an option. I have a buddy that uses one and likes it.
I see guys struggle with the stock sinking into the bag when they are relying on the bag too much. They set up and mash the stock into the bag with their cheek because it feels stable.
For tactical shooting the rifle should be connected to you first and the bag second. The bag is not the primary means of supporting or aiming the rifle. The bag is the glue that locks in micro adjustments. When deciding on a bag guys need to ask themselves what type of shooter they want to be. If you want to aim and support your rifle 100% on the bag that’s benchrest type shooting. Theres nothing wrong with that, but I‘m not sure a lot of people understand the difference.

People may ask why it matters? What’s the difference in tactical shooting and benchrest/F class type shooting. Speed and adjustability. @velayo_0317 just posted a video on IG of a speed stage at a match. This to me is the definition of tactical shooting. The shooter and the rifle are a single unit and the shooter is aiming himself at the target. The bag is not there to aim the rifle. It’s there to lock in micro adjustments.
http://instagr.am/p/B8WpYYUJla3/ Can you imagine trying to do that with a rabbit ear bag or a sled style bipod.....or a mechanical front rest lol. There is nothing wrong with that type of gear but be sure to pick the gear that fits your objective as a shooter. Sure the benchrest crowd shoots the smallest groups. If tiny groups are what makes shooting fun to you then you may be more of a bench rest type shooter. I am personally happy with 1/2 moa and find it more fun to do stuff like shown in the video above. I’m quite sure I can’t beat 18 seconds though 🤯
 

b2lee

Gunny Sergeant
Belligerents
Minuteman
Dec 30, 2018
549
519
99
50
N. KY
I run the @Precision Underground ELR bag. Usually I run my Atlas Bi-Pod in the 45 degree leg kicked forward height and the ELR bag on the flat side with my hand through the hoops. When I need to come up a bit I set the Atlas at the normal 90 degree and use the second highest side.....and if I need to really get up...I'll use the full height side of the bag.

@Precision Underground had great advice on getting on the gun.....locking that buttstock in...and then as you lower yourself....it loads the bipod and then sits down on the bag. You shouldn't have to fight anything.....it's just there to help with stability...not support your entire body weight.
 

lash

Swamp Rat
Online Training Access
Belligerents
Sep 28, 2012
5,303
4,380
219
61
Central Florida
If you shooting from a bench, pad or highly prepped surfaces the mechanical bag lifts are nice.
At this and most of my other spots,,,,,not so much.
View attachment 7249579
Plus I don’t feel I loose anything really with a quality bag.
If I haven’t said this before, I am totally jealous of your amazing shooting venues. I realize that jealousy is not a suit that I wear well, but honesty is.
I hope that you appreciate your surroundings. I have a feeling that you do or would not post these teaser pics so often.
Carry on.
 

Precision Underground

Rifle Gear
Commercial Supporter
Belligerents
Jun 21, 2017
1,987
1,597
119
Tallahassee, FL
I threw together a bag to take to a match the other day and it is basically one of these with no straps with ultra lite fill. I filled it pretty firm.
46B82382-9D7F-4ADE-91B4-885CE940296F.jpeg
I wanted it as a supplemental bag in case the Recon Micro I had on the Arca rail was not big enough to fill a large gap on an obstacle. I ended up not needing it but it would be perfect as a base to add height to your regular bag if you were shooting a downward angle. It’s grippy on the top and bottom and weighs a few ounces.
 

Steel head

Feral kitten
Belligerents
Aug 3, 2014
4,651
5,342
219
Washington
If I haven’t said this before, I am totally jealous of your amazing shooting venues. I realize that jealousy is not a suit that I wear well, but honesty is.
I hope that you appreciate your surroundings. I have a feeling that you do or would not post these teaser pics so often.
Carry on.
That area is possibly the most pristine with almost no traffic of the western state spots I frequent.
It was given to me from another hide member.

It’s a wonderful place for solitude.
Watching the sun come out there is amazing!
329A5D6D-6218-469F-88F4-345068E85925.jpeg
 
Last edited:

BoltActionBrotherhood

The Sender
Minuteman
Jan 17, 2019
66
23
12
NorCal
Thank you all for your suggestions, I have picked up a ELR bag from SURG!
Also after self reflection and points made from other I realize I was laying on my
Check rest too much and in general putting too much weight on the rear of the rifle, primarily cause my bags sucked and never invested in a good rear bag, my assumption was they were all made with the same filling etc.
Can’t wait to give the new bag a try, I think it’s going to make shooting steel at 2k a little more comfortable and efficient!
 
  • Like
Reactions: jungle45 and lash