Don't be THESE GUYS... the Death of Precision Rifle

Shootlong

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Feb 19, 2017
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I'm fairly new to the sport and this site but I can say I have competed in shooting sports from the time I was 19 and have seen this type of conduct from the top shooters in every area of shooting.They feel all the rules don't apply to them and in most cases get away with it.I just ignore most of it until I see a safety issue , then I leave.
 

DFC

General
Belligerents
Nov 4, 2002
85
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Arizona
I've been in some kind of competition all my life. Bass fishing was the worst then comes the shooting sports. Sponsors have ruined almost every sport known to man. I shoot now for the fun of it.
 

D. Hargrove

MEPS Inductee
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Minuteman
Jan 17, 2018
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Hulen, Oklahoma
Sir,
Your passion for the sport is evident and your assertiveness with regards to these asscrackers is understood. Thank you for taking the time to write this piece and furthermore your push to get the situation corrected at the highest levels. Devotion is appriciated by many and loyalty by all.

David
 

Squat

Sergeant of the Hide
Belligerents
Minuteman
Mar 21, 2018
221
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Tampa Florida
First post but I must PILE ON
This... Jerseys or the chasing of names for a Jersey ruined bass fishing. Guys that sucked at golf decided they could try and be a pro at something they hated but they could be pros.

So they have arrived in shooting sports, you can read how much they hate reloading etc but "have to in order to play the game"

So who here is going to buy an optic or rifle that a "pro" uses??? I mean really everyone knows they will jump ship for the next better deal. There are a few super nice ones that have been through 3 optic sponsors in 3 years, each one is the best and each optic was the same for the past 3 years.....

Just like with Bass fishing, "buy this beaver bait and you will win" really? so your brand won it for you? I won a large TX from the back of a boat and my pro who also won ( I only fished with him one day) told the press he used the baits and tackle i had.... he turned that into a sponsorship from that brand.

What I am lost about with these "jersey" boys is this, the companies have to grasp they arent selling scopes because X used it. Now types of equipment, IE reticle-power-caliber, etc yes but it takes normal joes about a month to realize its not the BRAND!!

Companies need to pick AMBASSADORS! not the top shooters. Take a top 50 vs a lower 50 guy, each one can talk to the basics to a new shooter and outline why X brand would help them. Like Cal on the PRB says give the top 50 any optic and decent rifle and they will do the same. So then tell me how are they the face of the brand? They aren't, in fact they are hurting the brands they use. Which is funny is you will probably find out that the JERSEY boy/girl , actually is friends with someone that "hooks" them up.

Anyways if I was a brand I would ask my shooter use a tiny sticker on the gun case or nothing. There is nothing that sells a product like a brand ambassador that doesnt feel the need to JAM that product in your face. The days of "impressions" are over. No one buys tide because they passed a truck or a billboard. Shooting sports arent even in that category yet. I specifically have avoided Vortex( which i can get at a substantial discount) because of the sponsorhips. The fact everyone has one is one thing, the fact its a huge % of the PRS drives me away.

So for this Guy, every brand I see on a shirt I will avoid and I will word of mouth everyone around me that its a joke. The Jersey owner will tell you anything so he can write his report and say he made impressions.

if you got this far, as to Franks point. The reason you have these guys picking the easy flip items off a table is because they aren't into the sport. They are into the chance to make it big at something. They just want to be pros and if they can golf, shoot,fish, or curl, they are gonna give a try. The only saving grace is as long as they chase this dream at least they arent on their kids backs to be a pro.

I've seen folks drop 100k in fishing gear only to dump the sport in 18 months because they werent going to be a "pro" The same applies here.

It is up to the BOD and PRS organizers to stop this. There is no reason to make this so lucrative that people attempt to make money off it. Keep the prizes small and RANDOM giveaways going. if you go big money you will attract more of the people you dont want in the sport.
 

Starbuck

Visualize No Hippies
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Sep 2, 2009
297
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Lafayette, CO
...and then there's the issue - not sure how often it happens but it does - of sposored shooters posting threads here on the Hide, singing the praises of this or that optic, or other piece of gear, without disclosing that they are sponsored by the company they are talking up...
 
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sinister

Gunny Sergeant
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Apr 16, 2002
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Any contest of skill that becomes a formal competition is going to bring out the best and worst of any group -- it gets worse the bigger the prize (whether it's cash, guns and optics, heck even an automobile).

NASCAR started from bootlegger roots and has become a legitimate multi-million dollar spectator sport.

Military and para-military sniping skills development has spawned a jerseyed, industry-sponsored high-dollar sport with gear most individual E4-E6 snipers can't be competitive in using issue equipment. Unless they compete in closed, military- or police-only competition.

For those on the job it's about skill development and enhancement. For civilians it's about loot, booty, and bragging rights.

Does sport develop gear and sometimes techniques? Absolutely. Try some of the things you see in a PRS or IPSC match on a GWOT battlefield and it could help you win -- or get you killed.

High stakes competition will bring out the best and worst from people -- it's the plain old human condition, whether it's skill development, sport, or politics (especially if it's for power, swag, and bragging rights).
 

Gunfighter14e2

Rusty Nail
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Jul 9, 2002
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Long ago I use to race circle track. Big money came in, we stopped it in it's tracks but having every race a claiming race. Max winning bid was $400.00, stopped the money B/S in it's tracks. You can not buy skill no matter the game, an w/o high end gear the gamers go away. Claiming shoots would be a good way to end all the B/S.
 

RoterJager

The Red Hunter
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It’s very simple, winners get trophies, top finishers get medals, then you walk the sponsors table from a raffle draw to include all shooters plus RO’s.

It’ll sort itself out after that.
This is how I feel it should be. The people that are in it for the fun/sport/competition/camaraderie will hang around and continue to shoot. The people that are in it just grab a prize off the prize table will simply disappear.
 

Culpeper

"Goodbye, Rutten"
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Nov 25, 2006
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That is what ruined NASCAR. I can remember during the 60s many cars had no sponsor. During the 70s more cars had sponsors. During the 80s only a few made it with no sponsor and those never were able to compete. By the time Dale Earnhardt was killed there was no sponsorless cars. By then drivers were making a living on winnings no matter how well they performed. It changed the whole concept that everybody has a chance to do good on the track. It is just the nature of the beast with any sport that allows sponsorship. Don't be surprised when an individual or team eventually shows up with Hooters jerseys and busty young cheerleaders.
 
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MilDot1960

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Apr 26, 2013
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Powerful stuff, Excellent post Frank,,

I was/Am happy just to win medals and glad to spend time with like minded people, Good company is a reward in it's self, People like that make me sick, I would ban any shooter with a personal sponsor's if you deem that not worthy, But I would ban that crowd for life.

Don't let it eat you up Frank,, Do It your way, People know your heart is in the right place, Top Man (y)
 

Squat

Sergeant of the Hide
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Mar 21, 2018
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Tampa Florida
It’s very simple, winners get trophies, top finishers get medals, then you walk the sponsors table from a raffle draw to include all shooters plus RO’s.

It’ll sort itself out after that.
Bingo, I think thats how Glock runs their comps. Random draws, where the guy that just showed up gets a free gun cert. In fact there should be a new comers set of prizes that is training or skill building based.
I can see some monetary prizes, but not into the 5k+ realm, this isnt about you winning 25-40k a year shooting. Thats where all the BS comes from. Thats why production class is not as popular as it should be, well some of the rules hurt there, i mean i should be able to change the grip on the gun. Unless of course they are trying to force people into the MPA rifle which isn't a stretch to assume.
 

Squat

Sergeant of the Hide
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Powerful stuff, Excellent post Frank,,

I was/Am happy just to win medals and glad to spend time with like minded people, Good company is a reward in it's self, People like that make me sick, I would ban any shooter with a personal sponsor's if you deem that not worthy, But I would ban that crowd for life.

Don't let it eat you up Frank,, Do It your way, People know your heart is in the right place, Top Man (y)
On a pipe dream, not the correct choice of wording but I cant think of anything else except probably never gonna happen, this is the way to get the sport to things like the Olympics. Get a big enough following, and given there is shooting sports, you have chances for a large audience in a world championship type season. Its not too hard to travel with a gun case.

Yeah not gonna happen but still there is a point to be made.
 

morganlamprecht

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Nov 5, 2013
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And there it is ^^^^^, the common sense answer. I like it and have often wondered why the Shirt guys get all bent when ROs get items off the table..
its funny, ive heard a few guys (not just Shirt guys) voice this same thing until they get their first Top 10 or Top 5, and a prize they were really wanting gets random draw given away right before their placement is called to the table...their tune changes a little bit lol
 

Fig

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I took a clinic last month from a very prominent PRS guy who has been there from the beginning, and he was also saying some of the things Frank is saying. I heard that last month the first Border Wars match was thrown out for cheating. A team was spotting and making wind calls for each other. From what I heard it started out they were "helping" some new shooters who were squaded up with the team, but it is what it is.

Money does tend to corrupt. I think the club matches are probably a lot more like "it used to be" rather than the big show. Even the Border Wars seems a great deal more mellow than PRS.

I honestly think it's getting to the point where PRS is becoming more of a professional circuit where there are fewer and fewer new/unsponsored shooters, and the club level and outfits like Border Wars are a much better place to learn and grow in your shooting. They're also 1/5 of the match fees, and generally more frequent and closer to wherever you are (at least in the Midwest).
 

RoterJager

The Red Hunter
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I took a clinic last month from a very prominent PRS guy who has been there from the beginning, and he was also saying some of the things Frank is saying. I heard that last month the first Border Wars match was thrown out for cheating. A team was spotting and making wind calls for each other. From what I heard it started out they were "helping" some new shooters who were squaded up with the team, but it is what it is.

Money does tend to corrupt. I think the club matches are probably a lot more like "it used to be" rather than the big show. Even the Border Wars seems a great deal more mellow than PRS.

I honestly think it's getting to the point where PRS is becoming more of a professional circuit where there are fewer and fewer new/unsponsored shooters, and the club level and outfits like Border Wars are a much better place to learn and grow in your shooting. They're also 1/5 of the match fees, and generally more frequent and closer to wherever you are (at least in the Midwest).
If they threw out a Border Wars match score, it's not reflected in the current standing/rankings. IF there was cheating why throw out an entire match, punish the dudes that were cheating and move on.

As far as PRS and regional/club matches goes, I think you're right. I think you're seeing a lot more local matches, at least in the midwest, pop up and fewer shooters driving out to the big 2 day matches.
 
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morganlamprecht

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yup, club matches are where its at...we had 75 at ours yesterday, all helping each other with positions and wind calls, slightly more generous targets and times are much better to learn on than a PRS match
 

Fig

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If they threw out a Border Wars match score, it's not reflected in the current standing/rankings. IF there was cheating why throw out an entire match, punish the dudes that were cheating and move on.

As far as PRS and regional/club matches goes, I think you're right. I think you're seeing a lot more local matches, at least in the midwest, pop up and fewer shooters driving out to the big 2 day matches.
I wasn't there. I was at a match the following weekend and what I got was second hand or here-say. I think team/squad in question took all the top spots. 1-6 or 1-8 or whatever. They may have just thrown their scores out, but the way I heard it was they threw out "the match results".

The fallout at the match I attended was that the ROs were really touchy about any talking when someone was shooting. "Impact" was the only thing anyone was allowed to say when someone was shooting. Not that this isn't as it should be, but they were hammering on it because of what happened at the previous match.
 

PBR streetgang

Private
Minuteman
Mar 16, 2018
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IMHO the real pros are downrange right now. Their "prize" is knowing that with their help everyone made it back to the FOB for chow. I learned the skills from those before me and hopefully passed on some tricks of the trade to some of those that are there now. I think about them everytime I'm ready to breathe and squeeze.

Friendly competition has been around since gunpowder was created. Competition during peacetime helped hone skills that might otherwise be lost. As long as it stays friendly it serves a purpose. Once it becomes all about egos and cliques shooters like myself and my brothers can usually be hard to find.

When "professional" shooters start dressing like the Bass Pros or the PBA it's time to get back to the woods. With the narcissism and greed we see now, a reflection of the entitlement society today, we see more organizations pop up as folks try to get back to learning, camaraderie and fun.

The environment created by some sponsored shooters and teams can be very poisonous. The elitism and money is very intimidating. This isn't an indictment of all but the wallet whores and gear queers know who they are. Big team sponsors care about one thing...the amount of bang for their buck they can get. Some care about furthering the sport but most are looking for increased sales...let's not fool ourselves. This isn't corporate charity on display.

One last thing...can we get away from the silky polos covered in logos...some of you guys should probably be wearing a bra...

Sure hope PRS can straighten itself out a bit, otherwise it'll be just another traveling circus kinda like three gun or WWE. Just my $.02.

Alpha Mike Foxtrot
GW1, Gothic Serpent, GWOT...somewhere in the Magic Kingdom

"Anyone that runs is a VC...anyone that stands still is well disciplined VC"
 

Send One

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Dec 13, 2018
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I know I am
As many know, I have been highly critical in the past of groups like the PRS, and while I have come to terms, and even support the PRS there is a growing problem that needs to be addressed. One I have seen personally and something I can speak on with confidence. So let me set this up:

A long time ago, Sniper's Hide partnered with Rifles Only for the sole purpose of hosting precision rifle matches down that their facility in Kingsville TX. In fact we are returning to our roots this year and will be hosting the PRS Tactical Division Finale as part of the Sniper's Hide Cup at Rifles Only. Way back in 2001-2002, Jacob Bynum of Rifles Only traveled to Connecticut to ask me if they could host a match for Sniper's Hide. In his words, Sniper's Hide needed to have a match, and it had to be at Rifles Only.

Prior to this, for years, Rifles Only was putting on matches for small groups of shooters in South Texas. You can see pictures down there of 10, 15, 25 guys organized to have matches as far as back as the mid 1990s. Before anyone heard of the PRS. The Success of what Rifles Only organized combined with the energy Sniper's Hide brought to the competitions set the standard for what you have today. The PRS was born out of these matches, and everything that followed was / is compared to what we accomplished at Rifles Only. Sure you can think you are doing something special, odds are, we've been there, done that, and handed out the T Shirts.

Fast forward to the last 4 years, I have felt, and I am not alone, that the addition of sponsored shooters, and Teams is ruining the matches for a lot of people, including myself as a Match Director. The Sniper's Hide Cup is probably the longest running match of its kind. We used to put on two matches a year, the SHC, and Shooter's Bash. Aside the classes we worked together, my time with Rifles Only saw a lot of shooters pass through the gates. On top of that I traveled to a lot of matches around the country as a competitor. This over the last 15 years, we have seen this sport grow and change in a variety of ways. Some good, some bad...

The good is the growth of the sport, there are more matches than ever. The innovation and imagination is great, though I am not as big a fan of all of it, some of it is too gimmicky, but over all A+ for all involved. It's a lot of work, and should be recognized. Hosting a match is not easy.

My Bad, is super bad, the Shooter's and their sense of entitlement, they act like it's something special because they attended a weekend rifle match. And these are team / Jersey'd shooters I am talking about, not your average shooter who looks at this like a vacation or a limited opportunity. These Sponsored Shooters or Team Guys feel they are entitled to rewards the average match shooter is not. I have been personally told this, directly...

"I attend 5 PRS matches a year spending my money" (as if nobody is spending their money) "and I deserve the better prizes, and I deserve a different level of treatment" ....

I know what you are gonna say before you say it, "Gee Frank all the PRS shooter's I have met are great, super nice, and helpful;" ... except they are not, and really just good at hiding it from most who dont' know what to look for... some are scumbags.

Ask Kasey Beltz from B&T who was a Range Officer for me at the 2015 SHC. He was treated like dog shit by Jersey'd shooter who, one of which was particularly disrespectful had a B&T logo on his shirt. Kasey let the shooter be the ass he felt he could be, and simply said, "Nice Logo" to the guy. The next day the guy came up and apologized, he didn't even know who Kasey was, and apparently someone told him that night. Point being, why treat any Range Officer badly, the matches don't work without them.

This past SHC we had 50 Range Officers, the year before 40 Range Officers. Most of these guys travel on their own dime. You are not pulling that many locally, and most of them pay their own expenses, aside from food. It's a thankless Job.

So to my point :

Jacob recently held the Brawl down at Rifles Only. He had 100+ Shooters, and 26 Range Officers. After announcing the Top 10 Shooters, he spoke about the Range Officers to the group and then let them choose from the prize table. I have seen amazing acts of generosity from Jacob, to giving rifles he won away, I mean the list is endless. Rewarding a non-paying Range Officer with a trip to the prize table is the least we can do, they are not paid and it's still costing them money. Most of his Range Officers live beyond 4 hours away. They have to travel, time off work (Rifles Only holds matches on Friday / Saturday) away from the family, etc.

So here is what a group of "anonymous" shooter's did after he rewards the Range Officers:

I waited a couple of weeks to send this to make sure the following wasn't spur of the moment. Everyone I have spoken with still feels the same way so here goes.


First off I’d like to say thanks for hosting an awesome match. Lot of fun and challenging stages.

I think that giving that scope away to the shooter who didn’t have the best gear was EXTREMELY classy and generous. He’ll never forget it and will likely keep that for the rest of his life. Myself and many others were very excited for him.

It was also incredible that you hosted a challenge specifically to donate money to help a fellow shooter in the community as well, and on top of that when the amount raised didn't satisfy you, you created a raffle to raise even more money. Absolutely awesome. The RO’s also did a great job and were very professional and fair all the way around. The barbecue at the end of the match was a good touch as well and was greatly appreciated.

The one complaint (and everyone I spoke with also had this concern) was how you dealt with the prize table. I COMPLETELY agree that the RO’s deserve something for their time and hard work. I have been an RO several times at PRS matches and will continue to be whenever I am not shooting them. RO’s are a vital part of our sport and it would not exist without them. And again, I COMPLETELY agree that they deserve to be rewarded, but not in the fashion they were. I was completely satisfied with what I walked away with, but it is a slap in the face to the shooters who pay $275 to get into the match + travel + hotel + bullets + brass + time + the sheer skill involved to finish high enough to get a good prize and have it taken away by someone who invested only time.

Watching RO’s walk away with $900 barrel certificates, $1000+ chassis’, nice optics etc was wrong and you could tell just by the way the RO’s hesitated when they were told they could pick ANYTHING off the table that they didn’t think it was right either. Some of the more respectful RO’s recognized that fact more than others and took smaller items, but a LOT of great items were taken by RO’s and for someone to finish in the top 15 and pick up a prize barely the value of their buy-in when the RO’s are walking out with $1000 items for only helping is incredibly insulting and sets a bad precedent. It will lead to RO’s signing up to help just to try and benefit from it rather than doing it to help the sport. It also did and will leave a bad taste in shooters mouths whenever/wherever it happens again.
I can’t speak on this for certain, but I also highly doubt that the companies donating prizes were donating them so that RO’s could pick up many of the best ones without competing.
The most common thing I have seen is one large item (and several smaller items) raffled off between the RO’s, or there is a prize table specifically for RO’s with items worth $1-300 which is more than fair and is always greatly appreciated.



Anyway, I'm not trying to bash you or the match, but myself and many others thought this needed to be addressed and I drew the short straw.

Hope you have a good week.

Bitch Ass Fucking Cowards...

They emailed this letter to Jacob this week. Yes this actually put this in writing.

Entitlement, plain and simple, these scumbags are not doing anything for this sport but taking for themselves. It's about them and theirs.

We can replace them in a heart beat, and you know why they are not signing this, because they know we'd put them on a black list and never allow them to shoot a match again.

They are SPONSORED SHOOTERS these guys who complain. They did the exact same thing at the SHC in 2015 so much so, I dropped the mic, told them if they wanted the shit on the table so bad, take it ... and like the vultures they are did exactly that.

The Range Officers didn't think it was wrong you fucking shit heads, they never had any one give them something to that degree before. Usually it's a raffle or a few prizes.

Here is a fucking clue, not only do these guys get most of their shit paid for, (Jersey shooters) what they take the off the table they sell. If you have Bushnell on your shirt and get a Vortex scope do you think it going to get used in the next match ? Hell NO ! They sell it and it actually pisses off the sponsors of the competition to see stuff posted online come Monday Morning for sale.

This letter spells it out better than I ever could ... they dislike the guys that are shooting a match who are not PRS members, who are not Top 25 Shooters, and they dislike the fact they have to listen to a Range Officer. They don't think you know what you doing, all they want is their buddy to RO because nobody else is up to their standard. They cause all sorts of drama on the line saying their tiny 6mm hit the target at 1250 yards in the wind and rain and the RO calls a miss. They bully, they cheat, yes cheat, and they manipulate the system every chance they get. One guy lies the other swears to it and then they go the prize table, take stuff only to sell. Why do you think they created the alibi system, so they could figure out where they stand, hatch a plan to manipulate it and then change their score to get what they want or need.

One year I raffled off a Surgeon Rifle to my Range Officers, I mean, I only had 7 rifles to give away, I figured one to the Range Officers is a great way to say thanks. They attacked me online viciously for doing it. Who was I (besides the Match Director) to give a high end rifle to my Range Officers. They even bitched at me because George Gardner won the Top Gun rifle which they felt was sub par to the Surgeon. The Top Gun was highly customize LRI Rifle in Burnt Bronze, engraved all over. It was a trophy.

If the Range Officers have a separate prize table, like the drafters of this letter propose, where do you think it comes from ? They act like moving the prize from the main table to a separate table is gonna make this feel different. As if ... don't take it off OUR Table, put it on your own. See how stupid they sound. Fucking chumps ... It's their twisted justification.

These shooters have soured me on Precision Rifle Competition... and I love this stuff. I eat, breathe, and sleep it... but they make it where I want nothing to do with any of them.

Matches have been $275 dollars to attend for 8 years at least. Hotels, rental cars, Ammo Costs, really, ammo cost. A clue here Jersey boy, if you have an issue with ammo, don't shoot the matches.

You know why they do it, they want free shit, they want to be able to say to their buddies at work, what they took off the table, who they got as a sponsor to give them something to act like a big shot. There is nothing positive about their motivation, nothing. Selfish, Entitled Pricks is all we have here.

Notice how he said he drew the short straw, this is not the work of one man, this is a collective hive. The Teams are part of the problem. Sure I like a lot of the team guys on a personal level. Heck I will even tag along with them during a match. But the team mentality is a problem in this sport. It's an individual event, not a team event.

We need as a group to weed these guys out. I am opting to reduce the prize table and I will personally hand out prizes to the deserving few, the Top 10 can take home a trophy. Ask your sponsor for a gift.

Sponsors, you need to insist on a code of conduct for your shooters. They need to pay back your generosity by contributing in a positive way. Not penning stupid fucking letters to Match Directors.

The PRS Board, you need to be the Shooter's Governing Body, not so much the match. Sure put some standards in place, but police the shooters. When a guy fucks up, he is punished. Not like you handled my issue and let the guy shot the very next match hosted by a PRS Board Director. You had enough evidence of a problem, hell people called you and complained before I said a word. And still that shooter breezed on as if nothing was wrong. Why he brings in a sponsor... bull fucking shit. Tell the sponsor what happened.

There is a solution to attitudes like this, I have screaming about this for years. Maybe now you will see what I am talking about.

Okay, this is a ton of writing, I am spitting bile over this crap. When will enough be enough. I know what a good match is, I know what a shooter who contributes looks like, this is not it. Make this viral and put on spotlight on this kind of thinking.

Fuck the authors of this letter, don't ever sign up for one of my matches you will not be missed. I am sure Jacob feels the same way.

Lowlight
Sniper's Hide
I know I am super late to the game here, but I just read this. Freaking awesome! I love it! A man that will speak his mind and not worry about the few he may offend. Good stuff sticking up for what is right! Kudos to you my friend!
 

Walkalong

Private
Minuteman
Dec 31, 2018
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In Benchrest we got a little plaque when we placed, that's it, something to hang in your reloading room and be proud of, no prizes, no money, just a plaque and the respect of your fellow shooters.

A prize table sounds cool if the prizes are raffled off randomly. Yea, rewarded ROs for their work sounds like a good idea, but even that will get negative feedback from folks who feel like they have no chance to RO. (Yea, some people don't need to.)

I don't know the answer, and am only now buying equipment to try PRS out. Want to have fun doing something I love, shooting. And if it is too easy, it isn't challenging, and if it isn't challenging, it's boring.
 

MK20

Sergeant of the Hide
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Apr 17, 2018
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Up North
The best and most fun comps I have ever shot were shot for nothing other than enjoyment. I have been around the PRS crowd a little and have never ventured any deeper simply based on the attitude of some of those I have encountered. Its either a giant gear dick measuring contest and/or guys treat it like it is a cash cow.
Don't get me wrong. I have met a bunch of guys who are active in the PRS world who are great folks, but with the large percentage of douchebags and the cost of a match, I would rather get together with some buddies and have our own "match" for free. No prizes, only the satisfaction of knowing your skills are still there and getting better.
 
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Tx_Aggie

Gig 'em
Hessian
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Sep 3, 2017
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VA
I know I am super late to the game here, but I just read this.
Yeah, super late is right, the last post was nearly a year ago.

Frank makes some excellent points, and as you say, he should be applauded for speaking out.

That said, this stuff has been discussed repeatedly here, in several threads, ad nauseum. The PRS has changed hands (twice) since Frank's OP, and is under different management that when this thread was started.

The new folks are aware of the issues Frank has raised and have expressed an interest in improving the way the series in managed. I for one am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and some time to work.

For example, Vortex has already announced that they will be donating prizes to each 2-day PRS match this year specifically for rewarding RO's. To me that's an indicator of things moving in a positive direction.

As such, maybe we should all stop stirring the pot for a while...

The best and most fun comps I have ever shot were shot for nothing other than enjoyment. I have been around the PRS crowd a little and have never ventured any deeper simply based on the attitude of some of those I have encountered. Its either a giant gear dick measuring contest and/or guys treat it like it is a cash cow.

Don't get me wrong. I have met a bunch of guys who are active in the PRS world who are great folks, but with the large percentage of douchebags and the cost of a match, I would rather get together with some buddies and have our own "match" for free. No prizes, only the satisfaction of knowing your skills are still there and getting better.
Have you shot a PRS match, or done any sort of action based competition shooting (3-gun, IDPA, USPSA, etc)?

Your comment just doesn't reflect what I've seen at matches. I don't think you should judge an entire community of shooters based on a few guys who rubbed you the wrong way, or on things posted online by people obviously just wanting to cause drama with no intention of actually participating.

In my experience nearly everyone at these matches is friendly and welcoming, and the percentage of jerks is extremely small, certainly not higher than any other shooting sport I've been involved with (and quite a bit lower than some other hobbies).

Maybe things are different in your part of the world, but around here you're unlikely to find a more welcoming and friendly bunch of shooters than at a PRS club series match. And that's speaking from experience, not hearsay.
 

MK20

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I definitely have shot more than a few in several different disciplines. I agree that by and large most shooting sports matches are filled with awesome folks. I should have said that the matches I have found so far where I live are not something I want to spend that much money to be a part of. I am actively looking for more matches in the area but work on the road 6-8 months a year so it is kinda hard to attend many.
 
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Tx_Aggie

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I definitely have shot more than a few in several different disciplines. I agree that by and large most shooting sports matches are filled with awesome folks. I should have said that the matches I have found so far where I live are not something I want to spend that much money to be a part of. I am actively looking for more matches in the area but work on the road 6-8 months a year so it is kinda hard to attend many.
I hate to hear that, and I agree that it can be tough to find time for this sort of thing if you spend that much time travelling for work.
 

Hollywood 6mm

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I definitely have shot more than a few in several different disciplines. I agree that by and large most shooting sports matches are filled with awesome folks. I should have said that the matches I have found so far where I live are not something I want to spend that much money to be a part of. I am actively looking for more matches in the area but work on the road 6-8 months a year so it is kinda hard to attend many.
What part of the country? I'm sure there are people that can provide suggestions on quality matches for your area.
 
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MK20

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Right around the Spokane area. I really wanted to make it to the snipers hide match in Colville last year but I was between jobs and money was short. Other than that and a big match at blue ridge ranch I don’t know of any smaller matches in the area.
 

Hollywood 6mm

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Right around the Spokane area. I really wanted to make it to the snipers hide match in Colville last year but I was between jobs and money was short. Other than that and a big match at blue ridge ranch I don’t know of any smaller matches in the area.
@sstacllc would be the man to ask in that stretch of the country. I've yet to make it out there (opposite corners), but I trust his opinion on matches to look out for, and if there are any that are less than great.
 
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Send One

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Yeah, super late is right, the last post was nearly a year ago.

Frank makes some excellent points, and as you say, he should be applauded for speaking out.

That said, this stuff has been discussed repeatedly here, in several threads, ad nauseum. The PRS has changed hands (twice) since Frank's OP, and is under different management that when this thread was started.

The new folks are aware of the issues Frank has raised and have expressed an interest in improving the way the series in managed. I for one am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and some time to work.

For example, Vortex has already announced that they will be donating prizes to each 2-day PRS match this year specifically for rewarding RO's. To me that's an indicator of things moving in a positive direction.

As such, maybe we should all stop stirring the pot for a while...



Have you shot a PRS match, or done any sort of action based competition shooting (3-gun, IDPA, USPSA, etc)?

Your comment just doesn't reflect what I've seen at matches. I don't think you should judge an entire community of shooters based on a few guys who rubbed you the wrong way, or on things posted online by people obviously just wanting to cause drama with no intention of actually participating.

In my experience nearly everyone at these matches is friendly and welcoming, and the percentage of jerks is extremely small, certainly not higher than any other shooting sport I've been involved with (and quite a bit lower than some other hobbies).

Maybe things are different in your part of the world, but around here you're unlikely to find a more welcoming and friendly bunch of shooters than at a PRS club series match. And that's speaking from experience, not hearsay.
I am not stirring anything. Came across a thread and appreciated what the man had to say. Glad you have had good experiences, I have ran into both good and bad. That said, his comments were fair.

Sorry I was so late to the party
 

Jimichanga

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Right around the Spokane area. I really wanted to make it to the snipers hide match in Colville last year but I was between jobs and money was short. Other than that and a big match at blue ridge ranch I don’t know of any smaller matches in the area.
Dude, you are near Rock Lake Rifle range which is pretty much the Disneyland of long range shooting in the region. They have monthly club matches with a very knowledgeable and hospitable crowd.

Rock Lake Rifle Range
 

Sheldon N

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Would you mind sending along whatever you find out? I’m in CDA and am looking for the same things (small local match without a bunch of blowhards).
Right around the Spokane area. I really wanted to make it to the snipers hide match in Colville last year but I was between jobs and money was short. Other than that and a big match at blue ridge ranch I don’t know of any smaller matches in the area.
Agree with Jimichanga. In addition to the monthly matches that go on at Rock Lake, there are quite a few small one-day matches at Blue Ridge Ranch as well. Only about 45 minutes from Rock Lake Rifle Range and also a top notch facility. They have open registration right now for a match on March 9 and April 6, just go to the "Store" section of their website.

http://www.blue-ridge-ranch.com/

There are way more matches out your direction... this online calendar has all the stuff in the NW, plus the national 2 day schedule for PRS/NRL as well.

https://calendar.google.com/calendar/embed?src=6s21ccnkk913rtk3kd605boafs@group.calendar.google.com&ctz=America/Los_Angeles
 

sstacllc

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Dude! you have landed in one of the truly hot spots of LR shooting. It's a great crowd out here and you should look seriously at joining up at http://www.rocklakeriflerange.org/in Static steel from 290-1720 pistol, carbine and 100 covered zero bay. There is a match at the end of the month there. There is another one at Blue Ridge in March. The Season will get rolling by March and there is at least 1 match per weekend within a 4 hours drive of Spokane. IMO if you don't have fun in the PNW shooting steel then this isn't for you or the problem lies else where. It's tough to beat the PNW shooters.
 

Clocked92

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Haven't read this whole thread but the club matches I've been to have been great. 50 guys just enjoying the day. There's a small trophy for 1st, 2nd and 3rd and then all prizes on the table are a random draw for anyone that showed up.

At the last shoot, there was a gentleman who had a really rough time at his first shoot and had some equipment that wasn't really for this game. Everyone agreed and the Match Directors picked him first and gave him the best scope on the table. Really worth it honestly because he needed it more than anyone else.

I will say this... Rifle shooters are much better to deal with (at least the ones I have) than trap shooters. I swear that group is the most stuck up group of shooters there is.
 

CoCaDoRi

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My first post in years... this was a good read and alarmingly relavant. I'm coming back full circle to shooting sports and bringing my son with me... PRS is something we both are gonna take a swing at... The very first thing my son said when we were researching the various shooting sports was " all the team guys will win everything, how do we compete?" ... enter the producton class... so thats where we are headed... I remember YEARS ago that Frank and Rifles only put on a match that you had to shoot factory match .308 ammo... just to level the playing field...
Anyway, I can see a shit ton of issues ahead for PRS, Sponsors, Teams and shooters that are ego driven. Having carved out a nitch in another type profession which was ego driven etc... I can tell you this comment by @Squat is absolutly the very best thing that could and without questions should happen...""Companies need to pick AMBASSADORS! not the top shooters. Take a top 50 vs a lower 50 guy, each one can talk to the basics to a new shooter and outline why X brand would help them "" It would literally weed out a shit ton of the issues with the team egos and bullshit. It would also drive many more to the sport.
We hope to see ya at a match...!

Cheers
Ric
 

Hollywood 6mm

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My first post in years... this was a good read and alarmingly relavant. I'm coming back full circle to shooting sports and bringing my son with me... PRS is something we both are gonna take a swing at... The very first thing my son said when we were researching the various shooting sports was " all the team guys will win everything, how do we compete?" ... enter the producton class... so thats where we are headed... I remember YEARS ago that Frank and Rifles only put on a match that you had to shoot factory match .308 ammo... just to level the playing field...
Anyway, I can see a shit ton of issues ahead for PRS, Sponsors, Teams and shooters that are ego driven. Having carved out a nitch in another type profession which was ego driven etc... I can tell you this comment by @Squat is absolutly the very best thing that could and without questions should happen...""Companies need to pick AMBASSADORS! not the top shooters. Take a top 50 vs a lower 50 guy, each one can talk to the basics to a new shooter and outline why X brand would help them "" It would literally weed out a shit ton of the issues with the team egos and bullshit. It would also drive many more to the sport.
We hope to see ya at a match...!

Cheers
Ric
I'll say this - I have been around the PRS in one form or another for 5 years now. My first match experience was the 2013 Finale, and the guys that stopped to talk to the FNG with the video camera were all wearing jerseys. Years later, some of those guys are now my teammates, and they are all my friends. I've seen plenty of these supposedly evil jersey-wearers give ROs and new shooters their prize table walks, as well. Don't let a few bad apples ruin your impression of people (including those of us in jerseys) in the PRS.
 
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CoCaDoRi

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Oh, I hear what your're saying... when I was younger I would have been a bit more concerned and on the alert with the ego's and ostentatious attitudes of the team guys. I would also place all of them in the "guilty by association" catgories... I'm not like that and I could care less really. We'll see how they are with my boy who's only 13 and going to give it a go...actually we'll see how PRS is in general is with someone as young as my boy. My point is... the ambassadorship thing is brilliant, and should really be looked at by the sponsors... expecially if they are serious about their brand and who give's their brand "optics". The top shooters might not always be the best ones to wear logo's. Having been around the ambassador thing for a spell and recognizing how it works and how succesful it can be... I'm surprized many of the shooting sports brands havn't explored this. It's critical in other industries.
 

Hollywood 6mm

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I wasn't aware the range officer position was unpaid. Thanks for the insight.
Depends on the match and location. There are some that pay directly for ROs, and others get significant donations of prizes/products for the ROs to make up for their time.

My point is... the ambassadorship thing is brilliant, and should really be looked at by the sponsors... expecially if they are serious about their brand and who give's their brand "optics". The top shooters might not always be the best ones to wear logo's. Having been around the ambassador thing for a spell and recognizing how it works and how succesful it can be... I'm surprized many of the shooting sports brands havn't explored this. It's critical in other industries.
There's at least one company in the shooting sports doing exactly that. They're on my jersey....
 

MattInFla

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In another hobby I participate in, the sponsors at big event donate prizes to both the participant table and to a volunteer staff table. The volunteer staff get their prizes separately from the participant session, to prevent butthurt.

And yes, we have sponsored participants. Most are really great people who truly want to advance the hobby and are very willing to help others. A small number are complete narcissists totally infatuated with their own legends.

Sadly, these folks are unavoidable when you get a group of sufficient size together.
 
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northeastgunfighter

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As many know, I have been highly critical in the past of groups like the PRS, and while I have come to terms, and even support the PRS there is a growing problem that needs to be addressed. One I have seen personally and something I can speak on with confidence. So let me set this up:

A long time ago, Sniper's Hide partnered with Rifles Only for the sole purpose of hosting precision rifle matches down that their facility in Kingsville TX. In fact we are returning to our roots this year and will be hosting the PRS Tactical Division Finale as part of the Sniper's Hide Cup at Rifles Only. Way back in 2001-2002, Jacob Bynum of Rifles Only traveled to Connecticut to ask me if they could host a match for Sniper's Hide. In his words, Sniper's Hide needed to have a match, and it had to be at Rifles Only.

Prior to this, for years, Rifles Only was putting on matches for small groups of shooters in South Texas. You can see pictures down there of 10, 15, 25 guys organized to have matches as far as back as the mid 1990s. Before anyone heard of the PRS. The Success of what Rifles Only organized combined with the energy Sniper's Hide brought to the competitions set the standard for what you have today. The PRS was born out of these matches, and everything that followed was / is compared to what we accomplished at Rifles Only. Sure you can think you are doing something special, odds are, we've been there, done that, and handed out the T Shirts.

Fast forward to the last 4 years, I have felt, and I am not alone, that the addition of sponsored shooters, and Teams is ruining the matches for a lot of people, including myself as a Match Director. The Sniper's Hide Cup is probably the longest running match of its kind. We used to put on two matches a year, the SHC, and Shooter's Bash. Aside the classes we worked together, my time with Rifles Only saw a lot of shooters pass through the gates. On top of that I traveled to a lot of matches around the country as a competitor. This over the last 15 years, we have seen this sport grow and change in a variety of ways. Some good, some bad...

The good is the growth of the sport, there are more matches than ever. The innovation and imagination is great, though I am not as big a fan of all of it, some of it is too gimmicky, but over all A+ for all involved. It's a lot of work, and should be recognized. Hosting a match is not easy.

My Bad, is super bad, the Shooter's and their sense of entitlement, they act like it's something special because they attended a weekend rifle match. And these are team / Jersey'd shooters I am talking about, not your average shooter who looks at this like a vacation or a limited opportunity. These Sponsored Shooters or Team Guys feel they are entitled to rewards the average match shooter is not. I have been personally told this, directly...

"I attend 5 PRS matches a year spending my money" (as if nobody is spending their money) "and I deserve the better prizes, and I deserve a different level of treatment" ....

I know what you are gonna say before you say it, "Gee Frank all the PRS shooter's I have met are great, super nice, and helpful;" ... except they are not, and really just good at hiding it from most who dont' know what to look for... some are scumbags.

Ask Kasey Beltz from B&T who was a Range Officer for me at the 2015 SHC. He was treated like dog shit by Jersey'd shooter who, one of which was particularly disrespectful had a B&T logo on his shirt. Kasey let the shooter be the ass he felt he could be, and simply said, "Nice Logo" to the guy. The next day the guy came up and apologized, he didn't even know who Kasey was, and apparently someone told him that night. Point being, why treat any Range Officer badly, the matches don't work without them.

This past SHC we had 50 Range Officers, the year before 40 Range Officers. Most of these guys travel on their own dime. You are not pulling that many locally, and most of them pay their own expenses, aside from food. It's a thankless Job.

So to my point :

Jacob recently held the Brawl down at Rifles Only. He had 100+ Shooters, and 26 Range Officers. After announcing the Top 10 Shooters, he spoke about the Range Officers to the group and then let them choose from the prize table. I have seen amazing acts of generosity from Jacob, to giving rifles he won away, I mean the list is endless. Rewarding a non-paying Range Officer with a trip to the prize table is the least we can do, they are not paid and it's still costing them money. Most of his Range Officers live beyond 4 hours away. They have to travel, time off work (Rifles Only holds matches on Friday / Saturday) away from the family, etc.

So here is what a group of "anonymous" shooter's did after he rewards the Range Officers:

I waited a couple of weeks to send this to make sure the following wasn't spur of the moment. Everyone I have spoken with still feels the same way so here goes.


First off I’d like to say thanks for hosting an awesome match. Lot of fun and challenging stages.

I think that giving that scope away to the shooter who didn’t have the best gear was EXTREMELY classy and generous. He’ll never forget it and will likely keep that for the rest of his life. Myself and many others were very excited for him.

It was also incredible that you hosted a challenge specifically to donate money to help a fellow shooter in the community as well, and on top of that when the amount raised didn't satisfy you, you created a raffle to raise even more money. Absolutely awesome. The RO’s also did a great job and were very professional and fair all the way around. The barbecue at the end of the match was a good touch as well and was greatly appreciated.

The one complaint (and everyone I spoke with also had this concern) was how you dealt with the prize table. I COMPLETELY agree that the RO’s deserve something for their time and hard work. I have been an RO several times at PRS matches and will continue to be whenever I am not shooting them. RO’s are a vital part of our sport and it would not exist without them. And again, I COMPLETELY agree that they deserve to be rewarded, but not in the fashion they were. I was completely satisfied with what I walked away with, but it is a slap in the face to the shooters who pay $275 to get into the match + travel + hotel + bullets + brass + time + the sheer skill involved to finish high enough to get a good prize and have it taken away by someone who invested only time.

Watching RO’s walk away with $900 barrel certificates, $1000+ chassis’, nice optics etc was wrong and you could tell just by the way the RO’s hesitated when they were told they could pick ANYTHING off the table that they didn’t think it was right either. Some of the more respectful RO’s recognized that fact more than others and took smaller items, but a LOT of great items were taken by RO’s and for someone to finish in the top 15 and pick up a prize barely the value of their buy-in when the RO’s are walking out with $1000 items for only helping is incredibly insulting and sets a bad precedent. It will lead to RO’s signing up to help just to try and benefit from it rather than doing it to help the sport. It also did and will leave a bad taste in shooters mouths whenever/wherever it happens again.
I can’t speak on this for certain, but I also highly doubt that the companies donating prizes were donating them so that RO’s could pick up many of the best ones without competing.
The most common thing I have seen is one large item (and several smaller items) raffled off between the RO’s, or there is a prize table specifically for RO’s with items worth $1-300 which is more than fair and is always greatly appreciated.



Anyway, I'm not trying to bash you or the match, but myself and many others thought this needed to be addressed and I drew the short straw.

Hope you have a good week.

Bitch Ass Fucking Cowards...

They emailed this letter to Jacob this week. Yes this actually put this in writing.

Entitlement, plain and simple, these scumbags are not doing anything for this sport but taking for themselves. It's about them and theirs.

We can replace them in a heart beat, and you know why they are not signing this, because they know we'd put them on a black list and never allow them to shoot a match again.

They are SPONSORED SHOOTERS these guys who complain. They did the exact same thing at the SHC in 2015 so much so, I dropped the mic, told them if they wanted the shit on the table so bad, take it ... and like the vultures they are did exactly that.

The Range Officers didn't think it was wrong you fucking shit heads, they never had any one give them something to that degree before. Usually it's a raffle or a few prizes.

Here is a fucking clue, not only do these guys get most of their shit paid for, (Jersey shooters) what they take the off the table they sell. If you have Bushnell on your shirt and get a Vortex scope do you think it going to get used in the next match ? Hell NO ! They sell it and it actually pisses off the sponsors of the competition to see stuff posted online come Monday Morning for sale.

This letter spells it out better than I ever could ... they dislike the guys that are shooting a match who are not PRS members, who are not Top 25 Shooters, and they dislike the fact they have to listen to a Range Officer. They don't think you know what you doing, all they want is their buddy to RO because nobody else is up to their standard. They cause all sorts of drama on the line saying their tiny 6mm hit the target at 1250 yards in the wind and rain and the RO calls a miss. They bully, they cheat, yes cheat, and they manipulate the system every chance they get. One guy lies the other swears to it and then they go the prize table, take stuff only to sell. Why do you think they created the alibi system, so they could figure out where they stand, hatch a plan to manipulate it and then change their score to get what they want or need.

One year I raffled off a Surgeon Rifle to my Range Officers, I mean, I only had 7 rifles to give away, I figured one to the Range Officers is a great way to say thanks. They attacked me online viciously for doing it. Who was I (besides the Match Director) to give a high end rifle to my Range Officers. They even bitched at me because George Gardner won the Top Gun rifle which they felt was sub par to the Surgeon. The Top Gun was highly customize LRI Rifle in Burnt Bronze, engraved all over. It was a trophy.

If the Range Officers have a separate prize table, like the drafters of this letter propose, where do you think it comes from ? They act like moving the prize from the main table to a separate table is gonna make this feel different. As if ... don't take it off OUR Table, put it on your own. See how stupid they sound. Fucking chumps ... It's their twisted justification.

These shooters have soured me on Precision Rifle Competition... and I love this stuff. I eat, breathe, and sleep it... but they make it where I want nothing to do with any of them.

Matches have been $275 dollars to attend for 8 years at least. Hotels, rental cars, Ammo Costs, really, ammo cost. A clue here Jersey boy, if you have an issue with ammo, don't shoot the matches.

You know why they do it, they want free shit, they want to be able to say to their buddies at work, what they took off the table, who they got as a sponsor to give them something to act like a big shot. There is nothing positive about their motivation, nothing. Selfish, Entitled Pricks is all we have here.

Notice how he said he drew the short straw, this is not the work of one man, this is a collective hive. The Teams are part of the problem. Sure I like a lot of the team guys on a personal level. Heck I will even tag along with them during a match. But the team mentality is a problem in this sport. It's an individual event, not a team event.

We need as a group to weed these guys out. I am opting to reduce the prize table and I will personally hand out prizes to the deserving few, the Top 10 can take home a trophy. Ask your sponsor for a gift.

Sponsors, you need to insist on a code of conduct for your shooters. They need to pay back your generosity by contributing in a positive way. Not penning stupid fucking letters to Match Directors.

The PRS Board, you need to be the Shooter's Governing Body, not so much the match. Sure put some standards in place, but police the shooters. When a guy fucks up, he is punished. Not like you handled my issue and let the guy shot the very next match hosted by a PRS Board Director. You had enough evidence of a problem, hell people called you and complained before I said a word. And still that shooter breezed on as if nothing was wrong. Why he brings in a sponsor... bull fucking shit. Tell the sponsor what happened.

There is a solution to attitudes like this, I have screaming about this for years. Maybe now you will see what I am talking about.

Okay, this is a ton of writing, I am spitting bile over this crap. When will enough be enough. I know what a good match is, I know what a shooter who contributes looks like, this is not it. Make this viral and put on spotlight on this kind of thinking.

Fuck the authors of this letter, don't ever sign up for one of my matches you will not be missed. I am sure Jacob feels the same way.

Lowlight
Sniper's Hide


Frank,

I appreciate the post. While I am new to the PRS "sport", I am not new to the Sniper world. I would 100% agree with you that a trophy would be more appropriate to earn at a match instead of a prize. Those plaques, or awards are life lasting.. the new Magpul stock I may have won (but dont want) isnt. I want to some day have that award hung up on my wall, to show my son AND my sponsors. I dont want a sponsor to have their equipment win me other companies product/equipment. I want my sponsors equipment to win me trophy or plaques. I want my equipment to be the most trust worthy equipment ( but not the best).

This being said, should I make it to the SHC and win something, I will make sure it goes to an RO or the newest shooter in the field, OR back to the prize table.

Thanks,

Justin Coletti
 
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Acrow264

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To address that letter. Now I wasn’t there to read the situation, but I think there are other reasons for why the ROs “hesitated” before picking something off the prize table. I’ve never been a RO but have had a similar role at other competitions.

Maybe they were hesitant because they weren’t expecting it. Maybe they were ROs because they love the sport, and love serving in that capacity so other people can enjoy the day. I still take pride from the past when I served as an official in competitions. It was a honor to serve and enable others.

Besides, what is the bad precedent—honestly? The only result I’m seeing is that more people would volunteer to watch and call for other shooters all day (so that competitors can have a good experience, let alone with a reputable and sufficient staff) with the result that they maybe get some highly desireable or needed gear?

I used to direct similar events for 15–25 people. The help I had even with those small numbers made it happen so others could have a nice experience. I think we should reward the people that make it all happen.

There aren’t enough prizes? The MD can’t use the prize table as s/he sees fit? Is that why ranked people are doing this—for return on investment in the form of prizes?
 

Yoteski

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The solution is so simple it hurts. Make a Pro and an Am class. Pro's pay a higher match fee and compete for cash and trophies. Amateur's pay a regular match fee and compete for trophies and the prize table at random raffle along with the RO's. Sponsors could dictate where they wanted their prizes to go knowing the two classes ahead of time.
Boom, fixed the PRS.
 
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Dthomas3523

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119
South Texas
The solution is so simple it hurts. Make a Pro and an Am class. Pro's pay a higher match fee and compete for cash and trophies. Amateur's pay a regular match fee and compete for trophies and the prize table at random raffle along with the RO's. Sponsors could dictate where they wanted their prizes to go knowing the two classes ahead of time.
Boom, fixed the PRS.
No need. It’s already $250 or so to shoot a PRS match and unless you’re poor, the prize table isn’t that big a deal. And if it is, you can’t afford the 250 + ammo + lodging/travel and you shouldn’t be going anyway.

So, even if the match was free to shoot, just with the ammo and lodging, if you can afford that to go shoot a PRS match, you should be financially stable enough the prize table doesn’t matter.

If you either A) can’t afford it or B) don’t have the proper skill level......you shoot $40-$80 club matches.

And if you are financially stable enough where the prize table doesn’t matter........and you let things involving the prize table piss you off........you’re an asshole (not directed at you, just at people in general who let it bother them).


Only two types of people care about prize table enough to get mad over it:

A) people who cant afford to shoot and should be doing something else more intelligent with their money (aka: poor idiots).

B) Assholes (aka you’re a pile of shit and need to re-evaluate why you’re doing this)
 
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