Super Mod/Team Blaster
Staff member
This has been going on too much lately. Someone asks a question that some feel isn't worth it and the feeding frenzy commences. Well it stops now. This is the first and final warning. We see it and you will get a 3 day ban the first time. Happens again and you are gone for 3 months.

You guys who spend more time in the Bear Pit or Maggie's Drawers posting stupid pictures than shooting or posting on shooting got it? It's done.

If there are problems then that is what Mod alerts are for. Asking a question that someone feels is stupid isn't a problem. Asking a question that has been asked before isn't either. Anyone new or old member causing problems deliberately should be brought up to the mods. Too long has this place run like the wild west. The Mods are here for a reason. If there is a problem then alert us.

Read the forum rules if you are unclear as to what is right and wrong to be posted around here. Lowlight is the man who wrote them and it's his word that will be followed and not what some members think.
Thank You. I'm scared to ask a stupid Question. That is almost any question to you guys. Thanks for opening it up to people like ME!
Welcome to the Hide. There are people on this Forum who have forgotten more about handloading, ballistics, marksmanship, etc., than you and I will ever learn and 99.9% of them won't hesitate to share their knowledge with you. Don't hesitate to ask ANY question. Although not the most user-friendly, you may want to use the Search feature from time to time to seek answers. It's hard to imagine asking a question that someone hasn't asked at least once.


In all honesty, Rob, I am trying, trying to ignore the idiots. But when I do that I end up not posting and logging out. Lol!
(That was a joke - well, sort of)
It seems that I am doing more worthwhile stuff via PM these days.


Super Mod/Team Blaster
Staff member
Back when this was first posted then locked, I had a question. Is it alright to attack old members?
No. Read the rules and it states that. This post was written when a bunch of people who thought they were the old school Hide members were jumping on anyone new. It's stopped quite a bit but as stated in rule #1:

"1.Exercise common sense and be considerate toward your fellow users. Diversity of opinion and intelligent civil discourse is encouraged; by the same token, Personal attacks, rudeness, flaming, baiting, insults to others, or arguments will not be tolerated. Challenge others' points of view and opinions, but do so respectfully and thoughtfully. Any member who threatens anyone on the forum, via PM, instant messengers, or Email, will be banned immediately without notice. "
O.A.L. Gauge for setting bullet distance from lands ?

I should have posted in purple. Full sarcasm alert. For the most part I think the Hide is well behaved.
Greetings. Thanks for making a new guy feel welcome. I've been loading handgun for 30 years but have limited experience loading rifle. That experience has been with the 8 x 57 mm cartridge. I'm no longer loading that round but will begin .30 - 06 in a few days. I'm waiting for a .30 cal. powder funnel I ordered from Dillon. Thankfully the 8 mm shell plate and retaining pins will work fine for .30 - 06 (don't have to purchase them). I'll be starting with
IMR 4064 pushing a 168 gr. Match BTHP through a Remmy 700 ADL with a 24" 1 in 10".
My question has to do with the O.A.L. Gauges offered by Hornady and others. They seem like a neat tool but I really don't want the added expense. A guy could conceivably "NEVER" cease purchasing tools & toys. That's not me. Can anyone give me a compelling argument as to why just starting with the reloading manual's suggested OAL and then tweeking if and as needed wouldn't be good enough to acheive better than average accuracy (half MOA at 100)?

As a "new" guy on many forums mostly due to the fact I just lurk and don't really post. One of the best things I've leaner end to use is. Rather then use the search button try typing followed by what ever your question is into google. It has really helped me avoid the sometimes aggregating "use the search feature" answer some are so quick to throw down.
this site is great and it stands apart from the others, for this very reason. I'm new and I'm learning a lot from this community. High-level pros should have a place to exchange info without being interrupted by foolishness and as a new guy I have a responsibility to try not to say stupid things or take liberties with the diplomacy reflected by the moderators and their rules.


Gunnery Sergeant
This site is such a great resource and wealth of knowledge. It's always a shame to see someone ask a question and then get torn apart by the "high & mighty." Isn't that what The Hide is for? To share knowledge and ideas...? Thanks for posting Rob01
Most of the members who've "Been There" are the one with the patience to answer the questions. The ones who hand out "the crap", ususally weren't.
Presscheck ; IRT your question: "My question has to do with the O.A.L. Gauges offered by Hornady and others. They seem like a neat tool but I really don't want the added expense. A guy could conceivably "NEVER" cease purchasing tools & toys. That's not me. Can anyone give me a compelling argument as to why just starting with the reloading manual's suggested OAL and then tweeking if and as needed wouldn't be good enough to acheive better than average accuracy (half MOA at 100)?"

While I am new to reloading also, I asked the same question of my coach/mentor and got the following reply: It depends on your purpose and intention. Measuring rounds with an OAL gauge is half the story; the other half is measuring your chamber. I use the Hornady Chamber All Bullet Comparator. If you want to know exactly what is going on inside your chamber with the round you need to buy both. Yes, it is more money for the tools upfront. But starting with the manual's suggested OAL and blindly chasing the chamber size and therefore bullet jump to the lands wastes a lot of ammo (and money) and can be dangerous if you compress the bullet into the barrel lands with too much powder and pressure. Besides, once you buy the tools you can use them on many guns many times. IMHO seems like a worthy investment. But you have to do what is right for you. Good luck! Shoot straight.


Gunny Sergeant
I don't frequent the Bear Pit or Maggie's Drawers, but if people are talking shit on ANYONE asking questions, that is some seriously fucked up shit. I just saw Rob's post in all caps on my sidebar. I'm well aware that there are some shooters on the Hide that know absolutely everything about precision rifle shooting and that they were born that way, never asked a question, but then there's the rest of us.

We all started somewhere...

Target Ready - welcome to reloading, death by a thousand mosquito bites! A tool for this, a tool for that, a tool for your tool (this should be a sig line, by the way). You can absolutely get by reloading to your cartridges SAAMI recommended OAL. That being said, the OAL gauges such as Hornady's, allow one to obtain finite measurements of the distance to the lands in their rifle. All bullets have different lengths. Additionally, the Hornady allows you to measure your OAL off the ogive of your respective bullet. There is much to say with regards to the consistencies of meplats, but we will just keep it simple and say that they are far from consistent, which makes consistent OAL measurements impossible. Lastly, having the OAL gauge allows one to "chase" their lands. Essentially, as you wear out the throat of your chamber, you will likely want to seat your bullets further and further out of their cases to achieve that same OAL you had previously identified as a good one, ergo, your bullets are "chasing" the lands.

I 100% completely understand your perspective, I was there. I had loads that I believed shot very well, and I just did the basics: neck sized my brass (no bushing), trimmed, chamfered, dumped powder and seated bullets by measuring off of their meplats. I didn't need to spend 250.00 on those "stupid Redding dies." My Lee dies did the same damn thing! Never in a million years did I think I would be annealing and turning necks on all of my cases, but I do now. Trust me when I say you can make your reloads as simple as I was, and to be quite honest, they are still light years better than most factory loads you will find. Once I tried a different techniques, such as turning necks on a batch of brass and seeing the improvement in my load's SD, I was sold. I guess that's some of the fun in reloading, seeing what works and what is horseshit.

Stick with what you're comfortable with. Save some cash on the side and if you get the "bug" to add another technique to your repertoire, give it a try.

Welcome, by the way.
I’ve been hesitant to use forums for this reason, I can handle being picked on but from a safety aspect there are some questions a person needs to ask especially when it pertains to reloading. Most of the time it’s obvious a person never used the search bar and when this happens it’s awesome when someone doesn’t attack them and shows them were to find the info. I don’t believe info needs to be spoon fed but if someone can show you where to start learning that’s always helpful.