Devil Dog Arms 1911 Pistols

TeamPOI

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Who has heard or even seen the new DDA 1911 Pistols? Come in 5'', 4.25", and 3.5". Chambered in the Lords caliber (45 ACP) and 9mm707417370741747074175
 

ShtrRdy

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I've never heard of them. The grip safety isn't blended to the frame very nicely. Cant tell if it's a Grip Safety problem or a Frame problem.
 

flyer

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That's about as close to a Bubba gun as you can buy new.
 

mgrs

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They have an interesting company history that you may wish to look into if you are concerned about that type of thing.

You may wish to be certain that it is what you want. They seem to have a 50% or more depreciation even in new condition based on those I have seen for sale on forums.
 

TeamPOI

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I've never heard of them. The grip safety isn't blended to the frame very nicely. Cant tell if it's a Grip Safety problem or a Frame problem.
They are all hand fitted, not sure what ya mean exactly.
 

TeamPOI

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They have an interesting company history that you may wish to look into if you are concerned about that type of thing.

You may wish to be certain that it is what you want. They seem to have a 50% or more depreciation even in new condition based on those I have seen for sale on forums.
You have seen the old company info. It was completely closed down. Then re opened by a whole new company.

Where are you seeing them for sale?
 

flyer

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They still look ugly.

Why buy that when you can get a nice looking 1911 from plenty of other sources that don't have weird histories?

I think what you're after is a source of customers with weird taste in BBQ guns.

I can't help you there.
 

mgrs

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You have seen the old company info. It was completely closed down. Then re opened by a whole new company.

Where are you seeing them for sale?
Good to know on the first part.

I am not sure if it has dropped into the archives, but the last one I saw was a like new 9mm fullsize on AR15.com that sat for a long time until it finally sold somewhere around $500-550 shipped and might have been less. I have not seen any for retail sale, if that is what you are asking.

I see that there is one in your profile picture and realize that I should have tread lightly... these may be nice guns, and I am sure they are decently featured other than lacking an ambi safety for the price, but the billboard rollmarks and wide serrations contribute to a cheap look that make them hard to be universally appealing.
 
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flyer

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Ambi safety isn't really a feature on a 1911 unless you're a lefty.

That slide is pretty gross but the grips are worse.
 

J-Ham

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Company name sucks, slide sucks, grips suck... Can't comment on fit & finish from pictures, but you can probably guess what my impression is.

To each his own, but if I were looking for a nice 1911 (and I have one with Steve Morrison as we speak), as others have said, I think I'd look to a more established company.
 

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To each his own, thank goodness we all have a opinion and a voice. Everyone that touches them fall in love. Is like anything we all have our likes, but damning a new company for trying to sell products isn’t really the best thing to do either. Devil Dog has donated over 20 guns this year already just to vet benefits. They are doing the right thing.

And yes I own a PR and marketing company that is working with or has worked with some of the biggest names in the industry. I do not rep anything I do not believe in and Frank knows that.
 

flyer

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Donating guns has nothing to do with quality or value.

I remember years ago when I was looking at 1911 gunsmith parts that I found a catalog by Fusion I think and they had lots of flavors of CNC machined 1911 slide and frame kits with drop in CNC parts: build a 1911 with almost no gunsmithing.

I'm not sure if Fusion was the maker or if they were putting a name on someone else's stuff but it did seem like they would private label 1911s.

This reminds me of that but I don't think Fusion would put such an ugly rail on a 1911 and those grips look like they were designed by a person who was born without arms.

If you're really in to marketing, why those grip, that slide and any rail on a 1911? Was any market study done?

Why try to sell it here instead of a more handgun oriented forum?

I can guess at the answers.
 

308pirate

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To each his own, thank goodness we all have a opinion and a voice. Everyone that touches them fall in love. Is like anything we all have our likes, but damning a new company for trying to sell products isn’t really the best thing to do either. Devil Dog has donated over 20 guns this year already just to vet benefits. They are doing the right thing.

And yes I own a PR and marketing company that is working with or has worked with some of the biggest names in the industry. I do not rep anything I do not believe in and Frank knows that.
It was a simple question. But thanks for answering.
 

Slash0311

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Based on the pictures, this isn't a gun I'd even pick up to look at. The grips look blocky and almost laughable in my opinion. If a company is going to use my Beloved Corps nickname I'd expect more. For me, everything for a handgun starts with the grip. Thats the only point od contact between the shooter and gun. My impression based off of the pictures is that someone with a CNC mill tried to take the shortest path to machine the grips. This is not a gun I would even consider as a novelty let alone a serious carry weapon.
 
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mgrs

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Ambi safety isn't really a feature on a 1911 unless you're a lefty.

That slide is pretty gross but the grips are worse.
My point was more that it is a common feature on 1911s that retail in the $1000 range and generally adds value/desirability to the gun. Feature wise, these aren’t really cost competitive at MSRP.

Maybe they could consider this based on looks alone:

-Keep tri-top
-Reduce Devil dog arms text size
-Lose Dog graphic
-Reduce serration cut size
-Keep grip checkering
-Undercut trigger guard
-Add ambi safety
-Keep mag release relief cut in grip panel
-Change grip panel cut design. Maybe ball mill dimple, or just anything but the way it is.
 

308pirate

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Honestly I'd buy two Beretta M9A3s before buying one of these even though I'd be money behind.

At least Beretta's been around over 500 years, so I'm pretty sure they'll be around 5 years from now.

Devil Dog? Not so much.
 
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flyer

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My point was more that it is a common feature on 1911s that retail in the $1000 range and generally adds value/desirability to the gun. Feature wise, these aren’t really cost competitive at MSRP.

Maybe they could consider this based on looks alone:

-Keep tri-top
-Reduce Devil dog arms text size
-Lose Dog graphic
-Reduce serration cut size
-Keep grip checkering
-Undercut trigger guard
-Add ambi safety
-Keep mag release relief cut in grip panel
-Change grip panel cut design. Maybe ball mill dimple, or just anything but the way it is.
My point is unless you're a lefty, the only time when you might ever need to manipulate the safety with your off hand, the safety should already be off.

If you've ever looked at the guts of a 1911 safety and the way the right side half is retained in an ambi safety, it's unnecessarily complex and a lot weaker.

I had two ambi safeties, one I threw away ASAP, the other is an original Swenson ambi safety in an Armand Swenson custom so I'm going to leave it. If it wasn't for that one, I would have none but if I was a lefty that might change and I might not want a 1911 as a carry piece.

Some custom touches are nice, some add value but if you're right handed an ambi safety seems more expensive and potentially an added point of failure.

To me a value add is a 4130 (or other alloy) forged or billet frame, hand fit match barrel and bushing, high hand cut, a nice beaver tail, tuned trigger with tool steel hammer and sear, de-horn option for carry guns, a reliability package, high polish blued finish or hard chrome.

Fit and finish should be stellar if you want to charge much over $1,000.

The 1911 starts as one of the most iconic and handsome pistols ever devised, you shouldn't change any of the look unless you have taste and design skills.
 
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Appreciate all the feedback. Marketing (myself) had nothing to do with design. That was the engineers, and I came along a few months ago. I will happily send this info to the owners and let them review.

SO let me ask this, with soo many 1911 pistols looking almost identical, what do you guys look for exactly in a 1911?

The engineers wanted something to stand out in a saturated market, and you cant say it doesn't "stand out" right ?
 

kriller134

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It’s stands out in the worst way possible. That’s like saying you have a group of 10 of the most beautiful girls and then there’s that one fat behemoth monster looking girl standing out. And I say that with all do respect.
 

Slash0311

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Like it or not, name recognition is a major key factor in purchases. I wouldn't consider this thing anything other than a novelty at best and absolutely wouldn't even look or touch it at the price its at. Its in line with Colt's, some Kimbers, and other major brands. Cut the price in half, I might at least touch it.
 

flyer

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Do you remember when Kimber got started making 1911s?

Their fit and finish was better than Colts and Springfields (Imbel), they had custom touches and they ran well with good CS when they didn't.

Quality is big.

You can do it by custom hand fitting or holding very tight tolerances on parts that contribute to reliability and accuracy.

Figure out how to do a really good high polish hot blued finish.

Tasteful custom touches like a serrated top slide, frenched borders, a tasteful de-horn and nicely blended beavertail, thumb safety and rear sight.

Skip the MIM internals. EDM cut tool steel is good.

Talk about QC, Kuhnausen optimal 1911 specs and a customer service department.

If they are gone in 2 years, a warranty isn't worth much but you need if any way.

Grips are a personal thing, if you can get decent checkered wood for cheap, that will work, otherwise go cheap plastic and explain that you don't want to charge more for something that will sit in a drawer.

Include 2-3 good magazines.

Sell at a low price.

If you can figure that out, people will give you a shot.
 

J-Ham

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Personally, I agree with flyer. If you guys want to do something like that, I don't think the 1911 is your platform. There's all sorts of Glocks and M&P's that are drawing a premium that look similar to this (to me).

When I think of a 1911, I think of classic lines. I don't need anything overdone or trying too hard. I think of something like this...sx.jpg
This is just a picture I snatched from Google, but Chuck Rogers has done some badass pistols, in my opinion. Not overdone, just subtle improvements on the original. That's all I'm after, and I'm willing to pay for it.

Remember this is just one guy's opinion... It's worth what ya paid for it. I respect you actually asking though... I think that's a good sign.
 
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TonyTheTiger

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@TeamPOI Just jump straight up to building 2011's that way the purists know they need not apply. I'm not a 1911 a guy at all but the pics above at least caused me to look twice, which is more than any traditional 1911 can do no matter whose name is on the side. The 1911 market is maybe the only one more flooded with cookie cutter looking guns than the AR world. It's so hard to stand out I don't know why anyone would build one to look like it belongs in a Ford Model T.

I live not too far from DDA so I've heard plenty of drama, it may have been a good idea to change names when it changed hands. I know more than a few guys that curse and spit every time the name comes up even knowing that it's under new ownership.
 
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J-Ham

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VZ's are only $60, so I suppose if the pistols were real nice & the rest of the aesthetics don't bother you, not really a huge deal. Or maybe other grips are an option.
 
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Slash0311

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VZ's are only $60, so I suppose if the pistols were real nice & the rest of the aesthetics don't bother you, not really a huge deal. Or maybe other grips are an option.
I considered changing grips but my hang up then is the price point and then adding more. So that makes a no name manufacturer with a price of upper mid range major brands and then increasing it.

No way in my book. Total deal breaker.
 
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THEIS

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Hi,

@TeamPOI

I understand you are the new marketing guy for DDA but are you the PR guy also?

Probably not but you are directly connected to DDA either way so this may be of some assistance to you/them.

I am not a pistol guy so I do not really keep up with what goes on in the pistol industry, so the comments here in regards to how people view DDA name and such; I decided to check and see what the issue was/is.

Long story short, since you know the history better than I do, lol...but from an outsiders view DDA needs to search themselves on every search engine and contact every website such as Firearms Blog, Truth about Guns, etc etc etc and plead with them to run a new press release advising of new ownership, etc etc.
Anything to knock the "bad" press releases down the google search totem pole

Sincerely,
Theis
 
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TeamPOI

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Hi,

@TeamPOI

I understand you are the new marketing guy for DDA but are you the PR guy also?

Probably not but you are directly connected to DDA either way so this may be of some assistance to you/them.

I am not a pistol guy so I do not really keep up with what goes on in the pistol industry, so the comments here in regards to how people view DDA name and such; I decided to check and see what the issue was/is.

Long story short, since you know the history better than I do, lol...but from an outsiders view DDA needs to search themselves on every search engine and contact every website such as Firearms Blog, Truth about Guns, etc etc etc and plead with them to run a new press release advising of new ownership, etc etc.
Anything to knock the "bad" press releases down the google search totem pole

Sincerely,
Theis
thanks for the ideas. We are working on that as we speak. Its all getting better, alot of good is buried and we are pulling it to the top.
 
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mgrs

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@TeamPOI Just jump straight up to building 2011's that way the purists know they need not apply. I'm not a 1911 a guy at all but the pics above at least caused me to look twice, which is more than any traditional 1911 can do no matter whose name is on the side. The 1911 market is maybe the only one more flooded with cookie cutter looking guns than the AR world. It's so hard to stand out I don't know why anyone would build one to look like it belongs in a Ford Model T.
Hi,

@TeamPOI

I understand you are the new marketing guy for DDA but are you the PR guy also?

...

Anything to knock the "bad" press releases down the google search totem pole

Sincerely,
Theis
I think all the nitpicking in this thread missed the point and these two posts really got it. Might benefit from an even more aggressive re-branding given that they don't seem to be trafficking on positive name recognition much at all.

Marketing a nicely done double stack in a couple barrel, caliber, and dustcover configurations somewhere between rock island and STI prices that is more or less ready to run out of the box would certainly generate some interest and get the name out there in the gaming community, who are more than willing to buy non-traditional looking guns.
 
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flyer

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The competition market for 1911 race guns is small and already pretty well served.

In this world where there are many more modern designs in single and double-stack, nostalgia sells which is why classic lines with quality parts, fit and finish is the place to be.

Lots of people have been waiting a long time for the CMP to release surplus USGI 1911s. All they have is nostalgia because the vast majority will be re-arsenaled mix-masters that are pretty loose and not terribly accurate.

If you can deliver quality and nostalgia with tastefully done custom touches for the same price, you will find a market.
 

mgrs

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The competition market for 1911 race guns is small and already pretty well served.

In this world where there are many more modern designs in single and double-stack, nostalgia sells which is why classic lines with quality parts, fit and finish is the place to be.

Lots of people have been waiting a long time for the CMP to release surplus USGI 1911s. All they have is nostalgia because the vast majority will be re-arsenaled mix-masters that are pretty loose and not terribly accurate.

If you can deliver quality and nostalgia with tastefully done custom touches for the same price, you will find a market.
Competing with $800 Colts, which will always have greater appeal to that market and residual value to anyone, in the nostalgia game is a great path to insolvency. The market below that price is so strong that even springfield ceded it to the Philippines.

Not sure why CMP 1911a1s are even a part of this discussion. The 19,000+ who applied for the first wave of 8,000 probably were not considering a new production clone as a substitute.

I think double stack guns are a great niche for this company.
-They already show up on prize tables, so they are already attempting to tie into the gaming community
-The styling would look great on a full dustcover, bull barrel 9 or .40.... and single side safeties are great for dump buckets

Stage times would probably improve. Keep that single-side safety and goofy rollmarks, and I’d abandon that ugly duckling like a plague rat.
 

flyer

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That 19,000+ were the people who want nostalgia and were willing to overspend on guns with only a hint of historical significance.

Think of the number who want new production with better quality and the same classic lines.

Now think of the number of people who want a no-name double-stack 1911 that uses expensive and hard to find magazines and looks weird because of the sides and/or rail that screw up the classic lines.

I know if I wanted a double-stack 1911, I would look at STI/SVI and clones. I did want one for a long time but the expensive magazines and the cost of the gun always turned me off.