Coating an action.

locotrician

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So my surgeon 1581xl just arrived however the steel is bare , is cerakote my best option ? I have done some cerakote in the past but never an action , surgeon says to coat everything but the threads and I get that is what I should do but if I cerakote the inside of the action I will effectively reduce the opening for the bolt 4 thousands and then I have to coat the bolt effectively making it 4 thousandths larger, for a total of 8 thousanths difference it just doesn't seem like the bolt could run in this scenario. Is there a better option ?
 

SharpsNitro

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The target thickness for Cerakote H-series is 1mil and half a mil for Elite. The actions I have Cerakoted I’ve masked off the insides and only sprayed the outside. For the bolt I mask off the lugs and bolt face.
 

bodhisafa

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You may want to investigate the nitride / dlc coating process for the surgeon...last time I spoke with surgeon regarding same question ...they told me the metal already has a nitride like process and coating the action/ bolt with anything other than cerakote would void warranty.

I’m not knowledgeable enough on metallurgy I just toke their comments as the rule.
 

Mr.Kirk

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If you’re stuck on cerakote, have the inside and bolt done with cerakote microslick. Only do h series in there if your bolt feels too loose. The cerakote guy should know exactly what your asking for.
 

kthomas

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I would personally avoid cerakote. It makes the action feel gummy when compared to another finish like DLC or nitride.

I've never tried the cerakote microslick however.
 
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locotrician

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If you’re stuck on cerakote, have the inside and bolt done with cerakote microslick. Only do h series in there if your bolt feels too loose. The cerakote guy should know exactly what your asking for.
To this point I have done my own cerakote work , it has not been a whole lot of stuff but enough that I should be able to do it myself , I'm just not sure about getting an even coat inside the action and not sure I have enough tolerance to clear cerakoting the bolt and the inside. Thanks for all the advice guys.
 

Mr.Kirk

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The last surgeon action that I bought was probably 09. Seems like they would offer them coated by now. I paid a local guy to duracoat it. It worked fine. I later needed other stuff done and just figured out how to do my own. A friend with a gunshop had me do a few things and it turned into me doing cerakote for him for about 5 years. If you can confidently coat the exterior, you can do microslick on the inside. You can rub microslick down to just about nothing with some superfine steel wool and still not rust. All that said, the dlc coatings are superior and add almost nothing to tolerances. You just can’t get it in prison pink.
 

rth1800

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I would find out what Lone Peak Arms uses and try that. It is a very nice dark coating that is slick and tough.
 

Ledzep

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DLC is not as effective as cerakote for corrosion.

Nitride is a heat treating process, not a coating. Always check with the manufacturer before nitriding. Anything over 400 degrees Fahrenheit is going to alter the strength of the steel.

Going off of several years ago memory, but I believe you can C-kote Surgeons without any mods/problems. Might have a short break in period. Do the hard to reach places first then work to the easy shots to keep from overspraying too much.
 

candyx

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DLC is not as effective as cerakote for corrosion.

Nitride is a heat treating process, not a coating. Always check with the manufacturer before nitriding. Anything over 400 degrees Fahrenheit is going to alter the strength of the steel.

Going off of several years ago memory, but I believe you can C-kote Surgeons without any mods/problems. Might have a short break in period. Do the hard to reach places first then work to the easy shots to keep from overspraying too much.
Surgeon has that on their website that any treatment process would void warranty since its been ION treated from the factory , they suggest to use cerakote.
 

kthomas

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DLC is not as effective as cerakote for corrosion.

Nitride is a heat treating process, not a coating. Always check with the manufacturer before nitriding. Anything over 400 degrees Fahrenheit is going to alter the strength of the steel.

Going off of several years ago memory, but I believe you can C-kote Surgeons without any mods/problems. Might have a short break in period. Do the hard to reach places first then work to the easy shots to keep from overspraying too much.
But how much corrosion resistance do we really need? Most of us aren't leaving our rifles on a boat on the west coast year round.

Sure, our rifles may spend some time in the field in adverse conditions, whether it be hunting, training or competitions. But we are not completely neglecting the rifles.

The importance of corrosion resistance is overstated. A lot of people are even running bare/naked actions with no issues. DLC and nitride are superior treatments/finishes than cerakote. Cerakote actions feel like shit, IMO, especially when compared to DLC and nitride. I'd rather have a smooth operating action with better clearances than one that has the best corrosion resistance.
 

THEIS

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Hi,

IF the manufacturer provides instructions to Cerakote then why look for any "treatment" such as DLC, etc etc that clearly the manufacturer says do not do??

Just cerakote it per the manufacturers instructions. They should know how much tolerance "stacks" they have designed into the components.

Sincerely,
Theis
 

Estes640

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Just talked to Garrett Stephens (warranty and replacement parts) the last couple days about getting a new bolt since my current one had an issue. Based on my talks with him, the bolts have an uncolored nitride coating on them already. They do offer cerakote as well though.

This is for the 591 action
 

brianf

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Hi,

IF the manufacturer provides instructions to Cerakote then why look for any "treatment" such as DLC, etc etc that clearly the manufacturer says do not do??

Just cerakote it per the manufacturers instructions. They should know how much tolerance "stacks" they have designed into the components.

Sincerely,
Theis
^^^THIS

A customer chooses a product because of its attributes

yet will not take advice from the SAME company about the SAME product

unless the mfg has a hidden agenda, i would follow their suggestions more than not :rolleyes:




happens to me all the time

my company is known in the industry for quality science backed nutrition (high quality vitamins)

customer calls up with a hot new idea

they then proceed to "tell us" how it should happen

of course we try and steer them in the right direction

sometimes they listen, and sometimes they dont

the ones that do usually make money and stay out of trouble...the other ones either go out of business after a few failed attempts

or have the FDA show up at their door
 
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diving dave

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I had my Defiant Deviant action and bolt cerakoted. The guy who did the work then polished the rear of the bolt, and had masked off the interior. Its nice and slick. The guys at Defiant advised not to do it, but it came out great. So I think it has alot to do with who does the Cerakote.
 

Ledzep

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But how much corrosion resistance do we really need? Most of us aren't leaving our rifles on a boat on the west coast year round.

Sure, our rifles may spend some time in the field in adverse conditions, whether it be hunting, training or competitions. But we are not completely neglecting the rifles.

The importance of corrosion resistance is overstated. A lot of people are even running bare/naked actions with no issues. DLC and nitride are superior treatments/finishes than cerakote. Cerakote actions feel like shit, IMO, especially when compared to DLC and nitride. I'd rather have a smooth operating action with better clearances than one that has the best corrosion resistance.
For sure, not a dig on DLC just throwing it out there that rust can happen through DLC if you neglect it or live in humid places. I got spoiled living in NV and SD with the dry climates, but I remember being in VA/NC and having blued/parkerized guns start to rust just from existing outside for a day or two.
 
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locotrician

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^^^THIS

A customer chooses a product because of its attributes

yet will not take advice from the SAME company about the SAME product

unless the mfg has a hidden agenda, i would follow their suggestions more than not :rolleyes:




happens to me all the time

my company is known in the industry for quality science backed nutrition (high quality vitamins)

customer calls up with a hot new idea

they then proceed to "tell us" how it should happen

of course we try and steer them in the right direction

sometimes they listen, and sometimes they dont

the ones that do usually make money and stay out of trouble...the other ones either go out of business after a few failed attempts

or have the FDA show up at their door
. I dont ask a whole of questions like this , I normally do very well at following instruction/direction . This time however I put this particular action together and I just get a 'gut feeling" that this is not gonna end well if I cerakote it , maybe you dont get gut feelings but I assure you this is the exception for me not the norm. Thank you for your input.
 
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RedBaron

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I have a Surgeon 1581xl that's been Cerakoted and it works just fine. I wouldn't sweat it.