China is Feeling It

Tucker301

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I have a friend in the veneer lumber business. He's been consulting in China for 10 years, helping them build and setup factories that produce the veneers at a fraction of what the US-based plants were doing it.
As is the case with so many industries, the US developed the technologies, built the equipment, and perfected the processes. Then they shipped it all to China for cheaper labor and less burdensome regulations.

I spoke with him a couple of months ago, asking how things were going in China.
He said, "You'd have to ask someone else. We're building plants in other places now. Places that are eager to get the business and with governments more friendly to the US."

Look at the ratio drop just between January and March of this year.
China can't win a trade war at 3/1, and they have no chance at 6/1.
Let them bleed!

7082123
 

Jefe's Dope

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The only way the China model works is if Americans continue to purchase their goods. Many economists state the China IS where the business is at with their huge, developing population. That population ceases to develop without Americans purchasing their goods. They lack innovation, so without access to US suppliers and technology they will grow stagnant. Best thing to do is raise tariffs and collapse the Chinese economic model. Move production to other countries or how about back here?
 

Va_Gentleman

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Yep... any new capacity that a entity is considering; China is really no longer in the discussion.

What most people do not know is that the forecast, production and lead times for most consumables out of China is more than 6 to 9 months. Many retailers grew inventory for the year big time to get the product before the tariffs were enacted.

Lowe's alone grew inventory by 16% in the first quarter alone. (Sales were 3.5%).... The import consumables are really going to fall off and most vendors are building in Vietnam, US, Mexico (sans new Trade Agreement), etc..

F'em... they been screwing us for years.
 

Maggot

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The only way the China model works is if Americans continue to purchase their goods. Many economists state the China IS where the business is at with their huge, developing population. That population ceases to develop without Americans purchasing their goods. They lack innovation, so without access to US suppliers and technology they will grow stagnant. Best thing to do is raise tariffs and collapse the Chinese economic model. Move production to other countries or how about back here?
That can go both ways.

A large part of why Japan attacked the US in WWII is our cutting their oil supply. Starvation can make you do stupid things.
 

W54/XM-388

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Just do remember that in the short term the Chinese are NOT paying any tariffs, it is the US consumers and business that are doing all the paying of the tariffs regardless of what politicians claim.

In the longer term it hurts the Chinese because people won't buy as much from them or demand a much lower price due to the tariffs, and eventually will try to find a way to source products from other countries, but that is a bit of a slower process so just remember you'll be paying the pass through costs of many of those tariffs for awhile.
 

Fig

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Chinas Tariff List Advertises its Trade War Weakness

It's laughable. It's the trade imbalance that people don't get. It is they who rely on our markets, and not we who rely on theirs. Yes, they're making all the money, but they are at our mercy in terms of tariffs, because they have nothing to retaliate with.

The list of what they're retaliating with is all you need to see to keep score in this trade war. Their side of the ledger is filled with 99% stolen technology.

Trump is basically the first President to fight back at all.
 

MTN

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Just do remember that in the short term the Chinese are NOT paying any tariffs, it is the US consumers and business that are doing all the paying of the tariffs regardless of what politicians claim.

In the longer term it hurts the Chinese because people won't buy as much from them or demand a much lower price due to the tariffs, and eventually will try to find a way to source products from other countries, but that is a bit of a slower process so just remember you'll be paying the pass through costs of many of those tariffs for awhile.
There was a point in time when I walked through the hardware store and wondered when all the stuff was replaced with crap from China. It was about the same time everything was labeled both in english and in spanish. Some of the things out of China have gotten better. But I'd rather pay more for local quality than only have craptasic plastic garbage options when shopping down at the hardware store.

Look at the toy options for kids these days. More craptasic Chinese plastic of about the same quality as the damn packaging.

Nothing against the Chinese as they are an ancient and rightfully proud people. But why in the hell are we even doing business and propping up a communist nation?

Can we rewind back to 198x something?
 
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oneshot86

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i dont know how you can hold it against the chinese for manufacturing all this craptastic shit.
dont get me wrong, i am not siding with them...

the chinese are not the ones designing shit and going to china to have it made a fraction cheaper so after that fraction adds up it makes someone millions. its americans...

americans are taking there ideas to china to have them made cheaper, americans are fucking you first.
everyone hates china but still buys shit from china.
WE
WE are doing it to ourselves.
we are our own worst enemys
 

pmclaine

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If we lose this "trade war" it will be lost at home.

The 48% free stuff army and the like, pissed that their shit Walmart products are costing too much.

Our propaganda spewing politicized media wont show those trade figures.

If we hold on, and win, it will be MAGA.
 
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pmclaine

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Chinas Tariff List Advertises its Trade War Weakness

It's laughable. It's the trade imbalance that people don't get. It is they who rely on our markets, and not we who rely on theirs. Yes, they're making all the money, but they are at our mercy in terms of tariffs, because they have nothing to retaliate with.

The list of what they're retaliating with is all you need to see to keep score in this trade war. Their side of the ledger is filled with 99% stolen technology.

Trump is basically the first President to fight back at all.
The stolen technology and the ownership clauses are what piss me off.

The other shit is our own hypocrisy and as @ArmyJerry said......Americans fucking America.
 

Maggot

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Its simple really:

They cant sell it...

If we dont buy it.

My MAGA hat?

2 for $5.00 free shipping.

Guess where it came from.....:rolleyes:
 

W54/XM-388

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Its simple really:

They cant sell it...

If we dont buy it.

My MAGA hat?

2 for $5.00 free shipping.

Guess where it came from.....:rolleyes:
If it's 2 for $5 with free shipping, I'd bet China with the subsidized (by us practically) china post...
 

Lapuapalooza

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Maybe if we can pound their economy well enough then Trump can wipe out our debt with China through further and deeper negotiations...
 

Maggot

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I have a friend in the veneer lumber business. He's been consulting in China for 10 years, helping them build and setup factories that produce the veneers at a fraction of what the US-based plants were doing it.
As is the case with so many industries, the US developed the technologies, built the equipment, and perfected the processes. Then they shipped it all to China for cheaper labor and less burdensome regulations.

I spoke with him a couple of months ago, asking how things were going in China.
He said, "You'd have to ask someone else. We're building plants in other places now. Places that are eager to get the business and with governments more friendly to the US."

Look at the ratio drop just between January and March of this year.
China can't win a trade war at 3/1, and they have no chance at 6/1.
Let them bleed!

View attachment 7082123
I was in the timber/lumber business back in the 1970's. Cut timber in the Pacific NW and for Westvaco here in Virginia. I loved the work and learned a lot about it.

Back then all the high grad hard wood, White Oak, especially, was going to Germany for veneer. I guess with subsidies and our technology they can undersell the EU.

I dont care so much about that, but to see all our fine lumber being sent away pisses me off. You just dont see many White Oak (or any other oak or hickory) with a 5-6 foot diameter anymore. When theyre gone theyre gone, a tree like that takes 400 years to mature.
 

Blue Sky Country

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This is a classic case of: "The last thing you want to do is alienate your consumer base", as the old and proven advice to businesses goes.

Beijing reacted to the initial demands for fair and equal trading practices with: "I am not going to lose face", and that is where they screwed up royally. Did they not know that they just entered an endurance race with someone who has a lot more resources (purchasing base) to deploy? All the US has to do is simply withdraw their market for cheap goods coming from there and there will be nothing they can even do about it.

If the CCP continues to flaunt and demonstrate hard-headed arrogance instead of taking a pragmatic approach and finding a solution that guarantees a stable future in this highly evolving world of global commerce, they will be committing the same errors that the later Qing emperors had done, and anyone who knows history will be quite familiar with how the Qing Dynasty met it's agonizing downfall.
 
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pmclaine

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This is a classic case of: "The last thing you want to do is alienate your consumer base", as the old and proven advice to businesses goes.

Beijing reacted to the initial demands for fair and equal trading practices with: "I am not going to lose face", and that is where they screwed up royally. Did they not know that they just entered an endurance race with someone who has a lot more resources (purchasing base) to deploy? All the US has to do is simply withdraw their market for cheap goods coming from there and there will be nothing they can even do about it.

If the CCP continues to flaunt and demonstrate hard-headed arrogance instead of taking a pragmatic approach and finding a solution that guarantees a stable future in this highly evolving world of global commerce, they will be committing the same errors that the later Qing emperors had done, and anyone who knows history will be quite familiar with how the Qing Dynasty met it's agonizing downfall.
I was going to mention the Qing Dynasty and the comparisons today......Im glad you brought that up.....


:)
 
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pmclaine

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What these idiots and the whole demented world joining in the "One Belt, One Road" program dont know (or perhaps they do) is that its a case of "You wont pay me now but you can bet your ass you will be paying me later".

They have no idea how expensive cheap Govt subsidized slave labor goods will eventually be when that is all there is left.
 
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Zeroit

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i dont know how you can hold it against the chinese for manufacturing all this craptastic shit.
dont get me wrong, i am not siding with them...

the chinese are not the ones designing shit and going to china to have it made a fraction cheaper so after that fraction adds up it makes someone millions. its americans...

americans are taking there ideas to china to have them made cheaper, americans are fucking you first.
everyone hates china but still buys shit from china.
WE
WE are doing it to ourselves.
we are our own worst enemys
i dont know how you can hold it against the chinese for manufacturing all this craptastic shit.
dont get me wrong, i am not siding with them...

the chinese are not the ones designing shit and going to china to have it made a fraction cheaper so after that fraction adds up it makes someone millions. its americans...

americans are taking there ideas to china to have them made cheaper, americans are fucking you first.
everyone hates china but still buys shit from china.
WE
WE are doing it to ourselves.
we are our own worst enemys
I had the pleasure of working on a house of Vietnam veteran Airforce pilot spent about 5+years in Hanoi Hilton one of his out buildings had a screen door needed repair made in Vietnam he had no problem with that being made there. My point is open up all the markets is a good thing. My father in law Korean war veteran drives two vehicles made in Korea. Back in the 70s a lot of bumper stickers said be American by American. However when the economy was in the shitter and that's all you could afford I understand that. And the Unions and the left claimed to be for the workers bullshit they told us who to vote for not one Republican was on the list why?
 

W54/XM-388

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What these idiots and the whole demented world joining in the "One Belt, One Road" program dont know (or perhaps they do) is that its a case of "You wont pay me now but you can bet your ass you will be paying me later".
Actually the real reason is that with that program, China gives them as much as they want, way more than they can afford to pay back.... BUT it's backed by strategic resources / land / raw materials, so you can't pay your debt... no problem that port now belongs to the Chinese navy (and we'll still let you have a couple spots for your ships.). Or the output of that mine / oil field now belongs to us... for 99 years of course, not being greedy or anything.
 

pmclaine

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1 it would be in our better interest to not do business w a sworn enemy
2 you shouldnt buy anything from slave labor, regardless of where its from

Good point @ArmyJerry ............ :)

Not to mention we have just off shored all the pollution and workers dangerous work environments that our three letter agencies wont allow to happene here unless our manufacturers pay through the nose which increases their costs which makes us buy more Chinese shit, which means more pollution and more chinese slave labor.

How much #2 bunker oil os burned bringing all that plastic shit over here in container ships.

Why isnt AOC calling for a boycott of Chinese shit?
 

pmclaine

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I had the pleasure of working on a house of Vietnam veteran Airforce pilot spent about 5+years in Hanoi Hilton one of his out buildings had a screen door needed repair made in Vietnam he had no problem with that being made there. My point is open up all the markets is a good thing. My father in law Korean war veteran drives two vehicles made in Korea. Back in the 70s a lot of bumper stickers said be American by American. However when the economy was in the shitter and that's all you could afford I understand that. And the Unions and the left claimed to be for the workers bullshit they told us who to vote for not one Republican was on the list why?

A free market means no tariffs on either side, no barriers to companies opening in your country. No IP theft. No home country majority ownership.

If the Green movement and OSHA feel that environment/workers in our country need protection than we shun those goods that are not produced to our standards.

Never going to happen until we are all part of the globalist wet dream.

and than we will all live at the lowest common denominator standard of living.
 

W54/XM-388

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Why isnt AOC calling for a boycott of Chinese shit?
She is too busy saying how planting cauliflower in your garden is "oppressive" and we need more "politically correct" vegetables instead..

No seriously...
 

ArmyJerry

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I have been going to China for a very long time, much bigger business than veneers and wood. More into energy and technology.. I can say first hand I love the Chinese people, they love Americans, they are as xenophobic and nationalistic as us Americans, maybe a bit more.. their government riles with an iron fist wrapped in a mink glove.

I do not blame the ChiCom government, Our Politicians have literally made millions selling us out to Mexico, Canada, China and Europe,, China being the biggest paymaster of our politicians and federal work force, this is why they hate Trump so goddam much.. Our whole political class needs forensic financial examinations and hangings.. Diane Feinstein has a Chinese spy as a driver for 20 years, you think she didnt know? They become millionaires from getting paid off and selling out the USA.

I hate every last one of them to death ,, muther fuckers all.

Man I fucking hate them with all my heart and soul.
 

lash

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Why isnt AOC calling for a boycott of Chinese shit?
Because it’s not her call.

And,
Her puppet masters have no real interest in doing what’s right for the environment, or people, or this country. Their interest is in the power to control the largest and most interesting economy that the world has seen.

She is just a paid actor.

Don’t respect the actor, respect the problem behind the curtain. Or it will get you in the end.

There, did that sound ominous and conspiratorial enough? 😀😎

P.S. I’m not wrong.
 
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pmclaine

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I have been going to China for a very long time, much bigger business than veneers and wood. More into energy and technology.. I can say first hand I love the Chinese people, they love Americans, they are as xenophobic and nationalistic as us Americans, maybe a bit more.. their government riles with an iron fist wrapped in a mink glove.

I do not blame the ChiCom government, Our Politicians have literally made millions selling us out to Mexico, Canada, China and Europe,, China being the biggest paymaster of our politicians and federal work force, this is why they hate Trump so goddam much.. Our whole political class needs forensic financial examinations and hangings.. Diane Feinstein has a Chinese spy as a driver for 20 years, you think she didnt know? The become millionaires from getting paid off and selling out the USA.

I hate every last one of them to death ,, muther fuckers all.

Man I fucking hate them with all my heart and soul.
When the chinese want to go to an American restaurant over there do they pick the one with the most Americans going to it?

Are they hungry an hour later?
 

pmclaine

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Because it’s not her call.

And,
Her puppet masters have no real interest in doing what’s right for the environment, or people, or this country. Their interest is in the power to control the largest and most interesting economy that the world has seen.

She is just a paid actor.

Don’t respect the actor, respect the problem behind the curtain. Or it will get you in the end.

There, did that sound ominous and conspiratorial enough? 😀😎

P.S. I’m not wrong.

Cant wait until she thinks she can jump the chains of her script and starts to think "No, I am the brains of this organization".
 

pmclaine

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She is too busy saying how planting cauliflower in your garden is "oppressive" and we need more "politically correct" vegetables instead..

No seriously...

and I fucking love cauliflower....

Burn it crisp in a frying pan of olive oil with salt and pepper.....

Fuck that bitch.
 

pmclaine

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Actually the Chinese view KFC as an American icon hence the popularity

I get it.

You take any guy off the street in any country he wants to be an American or envy's our way of life.

Sure we have our faults, most of them brought on by our dumb govt, but the idea is worth longing for.

Shame they wont fight for a govt that will work toward giving them the life we have in their own AO.

Shame our own politicians seem to have a disdain and disgust for the American life that the "common man" values so much.
 

ArmyJerry

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The Chinese Comms will fight for their people, and their country, our team will sit back and take payoffs from foreigners and nobody says a goddam thing. The ChiComms execute fuckers on the take and doing things with foreigners that harm the country.
 

mijp5

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I have a friend in the veneer lumber business. He's been consulting in China for 10 years, helping them build and setup factories that produce the veneers at a fraction of what the US-based plants were doing it.
As is the case with so many industries, the US developed the technologies, built the equipment, and perfected the processes. Then they shipped it all to China for cheaper labor and less burdensome regulations.

I spoke with him a couple of months ago, asking how things were going in China.
He said, "You'd have to ask someone else. We're building plants in other places now. Places that are eager to get the business and with governments more friendly to the US."

Look at the ratio drop just between January and March of this year.
China can't win a trade war at 3/1, and they have no chance at 6/1.
Let them bleed!

View attachment 7082123
I never would have guessed the tariff stunt had such an impact. I abstained from any opinion simply because I couldn’t understand how a tit for tat tariff war was beneficial at all. Both spectrums from CNN to Ben Shapiro were criticizing the move by trump as idiotic. But looking at this chart, if it is indeed correct, makes me understand the strategy behind the ballsy move by the trumpster. I kinda like how he doesn’t explain anything and just sits back and watches the onslaught of insults thrown at him.
 

Rthur

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She is too busy saying how planting cauliflower in your garden is "oppressive" and we need more "politically correct" vegetables instead..

No seriously...
The origin of cauliflower makes her statements all the more enjoyable.
Maybe someone should tell her what "race" hispanics are considered to be.

R