Chernobyl HBO Series

BoilerUP

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So....about nuclear power...

When you read in-depth about how this accident happened, one should realize it would have never happened but for MULTIPLE failures of MULTIPLE processes by MULTIPLE people. Sure the reactor design could have been better, but the failure lies directly at the feet of culture and complacency.

Even on this thread people have discussed Fukishima; the power company knew about tsunami risks and did NOTHING. If they'd have put the damn backup generators on the roof instead of ground level, that entire disaster likely would have been greatly mitigated if not outright averted.

Again, PEOPLE failed - not the technology. And if we're to say "the risks are too great" that is to say that they cannot be mitigated, which is false.

I'm all for renewable electricity (my barn has off-grid solar) but we aren't going to wind turbine and PV ourselves off traditional power generation with current technology and demand for electricity certainly isn't going down. Our abundant supply of natural gas has certainly changed both economics and environmental impact of power generation, but short of a Stark Industries Arc Reactor, nuclear is probably our world's best option for clean energy RIGHT NOW (even considering the waste) and we're probably shortchanging ourselves by not looking ahead at it for what will be necessary for longer space exploration in the future.
 

WT1

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So....about nuclear power...

When you read in-depth about how this accident happened, one should realize it would have never happened but for MULTIPLE failures of MULTIPLE processes by MULTIPLE people. Sure the reactor design could have been better, but the failure lies directly at the feet of culture and complacency.

Even on this thread people have discussed Fukishima; the power company knew about tsunami risks and did NOTHING. If they'd have put the damn backup generators on the roof instead of ground level, that entire disaster likely would have been greatly mitigated if not outright averted.

Again, PEOPLE failed - not the technology. And if we're to say "the risks are too great" that is to say that they cannot be mitigated, which is false.

I'm all for renewable electricity (my barn has off-grid solar) but we aren't going to wind turbine and PV ourselves off traditional power generation with current technology and demand for electricity certainly isn't going down. Our abundant supply of natural gas has certainly changed both economics and environmental impact of power generation, but short of a Stark Industries Arc Reactor, nuclear is probably our world's best option for clean energy RIGHT NOW (even considering the waste) and we're probably shortchanging ourselves by not looking ahead at it for what will be necessary for longer space exploration in the future.
Yeah, I know. But what if a plane crashed into the roof and the generators were smashed?

The one interesting fact I thought which came from the movie Pandora's Promise was that US nuclear plants run a lot on nuclear warheads from defunct Russian nuclear tipped missiles. Again, I don't know how true that is, but it was interesting to note and it may suggest something about Hillary Clinton's deal with Russia to sell a large stock of our fissile material to them.
 

Cheyenne Bodie

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I don't have the GAF to really discuss it anymore, it's nothing any American here doesn't already know. To be honest I didn't even read your post and I deleted my old one because I just stopped fucking caring. My sentiments on the matter are basically if it's bad and it happened/happens to Russia then it's fucking good. Fuck them, their communist ideals, and fuck even pissing on them to put out a fire. Communists are the political equivalent of paedophiles in my eyes, they deserve no quarter.

That's not to say I have anything against Russian people, if they want to not be communist I would even sympathize with them. Alas, their nation is no bastion of liberty. Bombing it into a parking lot and using it as a landing pad for helicopter rides when we get to the Chinese government is just simply not going to happen, but supporting them is fucked. I hope everything bad in the world happens to Russia and only Russia, fuck them and fuck the MSNBBCNN bullshit machine too.
 

WT1

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Another interesting thing I picked up from Pandora's Promise. A while back I was talking with an acquaintance who said he had purchased stocks in a company that specializes in mining for uranium and other such metals but the stock wasn't doing all that well. In Pandora's Promise towards the end a comment was made that US nuclear power plants are frequently fueled on defunct nuclear warheads from the Russian nuclear arsenal. In other words, we are running our nuclear power plants using their refined uranium. It occurs to me that the stocks in the company aren't doing all that well because the nuclear industry doesn't need a supply of uranium if they are using defunct nuclear warheads from the Russian arsenal. I told him to watch the movie. He didn't believe me. It does sound outlandish, I have to admit.
 

pmclaine

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Another interesting thing I picked up from Pandora's Promise. A while back I was talking with an acquaintance who said he had purchased stocks in a company that specializes in mining for uranium and other such metals but the stock wasn't doing all that well. In Pandora's Promise towards the end a comment was made that US nuclear power plants are frequently fueled on defunct nuclear warheads from the Russian nuclear arsenal. In other words, we are running our nuclear power plants using their refined uranium. It occurs to me that the stocks in the company aren't doing all that well because the nuclear industry doesn't need a supply of uranium if they are using defunct nuclear warheads from the Russian arsenal. I told him to watch the movie. He didn't believe me. It does sound outlandish, I have to admit.
Gots to be cheaper to "recycle" than to mine new.

What a great closed circle...

Hillary sells our raw uranium to Russians.

They turn it into weapons pointed at us.

We buy the uranium back on its expiration date.
 

WT1

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Gots to be cheaper to "recycle" than to mine new.

What a great closed circle...

Hillary sells our raw uranium to Russians.

They turn it into weapons pointed at us.

We buy the uranium back on its expiration date.
Yes, it is a cycle alright.
 

pmclaine

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Started reading the book last night.

One angle that struck me.......based on the place names........all horrible WWII battle areas or racial cleansing villages.

If you were in the prime of your life in 1986, say 51 my age, as a kid you were witness to some hard war.

It's alluded to at one point, one party interviewed remembering as a child seeing their dad brought home, dead, machine gunned, buried in the front yard.

One stat in the book is about the Germans wiping out some 700 or so villages during the war and Chernobyl did same to over 400........all within one lifetime.

A witness says they way the Soviets handled Chernobyl was no different than how they fought the Germans......they threw ill equipped, untrained, men into the mouth of the beast.
 

chpprguy

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What about fusion energy?

It's being worked on

 

WT1

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It isn't.

Yeah, I was buying into that video until I saw the stats, that practically nobody died from Chernobyl. That was what was suggested in the movie Pandora's Promise as well, which in my opinion was pro-nuclear power. But those stats conflict heavily with the epilogue from Chernobyl which said much higher numbers of deaths related to Chernobyl. People who watched the fire from the bridge in town died. Others died from complications. In Pandor's Promise, it was like that never happened.

Ted talk is a kind of guru bullshit talk that I haven't bought into really. It's all guru stuff for the most part.

Practically speaking, though, Chernobyl, though there are people living there now who have returned, the government is against it. Fukushima is still off limits. I don't see why the government would go to those lengths if there wasn't some real concern.

Now Hiroshima and Nagasaki are inhabited. But the stats from several different web sites suggest high rates of cancer such as leukemia: https://k1project.columbia.edu/news/hiroshima-and-nagasaki

Yeah, it's a bomb and the other a power source, but US nuclear power plants use defunct Russian weapons for their source. Same thing really.
 

BoilerUP

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WT1 said:
Yeah, it's a bomb and the other a power source, but US nuclear power plants use defunct Russian weapons for their source. Same thing really.
No, reactor fuel and weapons-grade uranium aren't the "same thing really".

Megatons for Megawatts ran for twenty years through 2013 and took highly enriched U235 removed from Russian warheads that were already deactivated by treaty and converted it to much much lesser enriched U235 for nuclear reactor fuel.

About 45% of American reactor fuel has recently come from former Russian weapons. Hell, the US even converted some of our weapons-grade uranium from deactivated warheads into reactor fuel, that makes up about 5% of reactor fuel.

All of these former nuclear weapons account for about 10% of power generation in the entire USA...so who gives a shit where reactor fuel was sourced from? It was already made and wasn't used as a weapon as designed, which sounds a lot like a win/win for the world.
 
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pmclaine

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No, reactor fuel and weapons-grade uranium aren't the "same thing really".

Megatons for Megawatts ran for twenty years through 2013 and took highly enriched U235 removed from Russian warheads that were already deactivated by treaty and converted it to much much lesser enriched U235 for nuclear reactor fuel.

About 45% of American reactor fuel has recently come from former Russian weapons. Hell, the US even converted some of our weapons-grade uranium from deactivated warheads into reactor fuel, that makes up about 5% of reactor fuel.

All of these former nuclear weapons account for about 10% of power generation in the entire USA...so who gives a shit where reactor fuel was sourced from? It was already made and wasn't used as a weapon as designed, which sounds a lot like a win/win for the world.
Swords into plowshares...........

Reading through the book I got on Amazon.

I dont think its the one the series was based on, perhaps for the personal stories of how the event effected individuals and families but not so much technical data on what happened and how they tried to recover it.

Pretty depressing read. It has that "Holocaust" survivor genre feel to it.

What surprises me is how closely they related Chernobyl to the WWII experience/war in general. Many of the commentators in the book were survivors of both.

Provides an interesting exposure of the Russian mindset whereby taking on certain death tasks at the request of the state is viewed as "heroic" and providing the individual meaning.

Sure we understand that but the difference here is that "life" has meaning. Your death for the greater good may be required but it is not a means to give the individual "meaning". The individual was important before the sacrifice. Seems to not be so in the Soviet Union.

Makes me think of a tyrranical death cult except the people dying/surviving were very educated and totally crushed by the loss.

They wanted to live but felt a crushing inertia to die - "I cant say no. I have a Party card".
 
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308pirate

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Had a chance to watch the second disk. Nuclear power is not a solution for a safe planet. If it isn't a design flaw, it will be an act of god, damage incurred during a war, operator error, faulty part, ignorance of the technology that is still not completely understood, penny pinching management, you name it. The risk is too high.
You're entitled to your opinion

You're not entitled to credibility on this subject. That has to be earned.

I'm pretty sure you're not an engineer, nor have anywhere near the education needed to start sorting reality from bullshit on this subject.

And I am 100% certain that you have zero operational experience in the field of nuclear power generation.
 

pmclaine

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One never knows where nuclear reactors might be.

Sure we see the obvious power plants but how many "research" reactors exist and in how densely populated the area?

Cambridge prides itself on its liberal agenda, pretty sure they are a "nuclear free zone".

Good thing MIT doesnt do any research on nuclear energy or there could be conflict between the school and the city.
 

WT1

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No, reactor fuel and weapons-grade uranium aren't the "same thing really".

Megatons for Megawatts ran for twenty years through 2013 and took highly enriched U235 removed from Russian warheads that were already deactivated by treaty and converted it to much much lesser enriched U235 for nuclear reactor fuel.

About 45% of American reactor fuel has recently come from former Russian weapons. Hell, the US even converted some of our weapons-grade uranium from deactivated warheads into reactor fuel, that makes up about 5% of reactor fuel.

All of these former nuclear weapons account for about 10% of power generation in the entire USA...so who gives a shit where reactor fuel was sourced from? It was already made and wasn't used as a weapon as designed, which sounds a lot like a win/win for the world.
I think it is an efficient use of former nuclear weapons. But before it is converted it is still a bomb in a sense, so same thing. Nothing wrong with that, just it is isn't a pile until it is converted as you said. I get it.